No Gear Check in the LFG tool?

[Reevax]

THIS is why i was against the lfg tool... anyone who asked.. there is your answer..

 

you got a lfg tool and now you want a way to make people not group with you. ( not you poster.. fyi:P)

 

people dont want a lfg tool so they can group they want it so they can push people out of groups who do not have max perfect gear and stats. lame

 

You do realize the payers did not create the level of difficulty for each given FP right? I mean you do understand that don't you?

[Kitzinger]

And do you want the game to hold your hand every step of the way, do all your thinking for you, etc?

 

It's simple. Get someone in group, inspect player, see what they're wearing, ask them to change into PvP or PvE gear depending on what you're going to do, and if he doesn't, boot him and try again.

 

If that takes up too much of your time, then that's your personal cross to bear.

 

I would rather the people who create this game (oh you know the one's who put in Tiered Equipment in the first place) put in the minimum expected standards of what a player should meet before trying to do EC, Hard Mode Operations, HM LI, etc. This would give the player some guidance and a path to success. Your option is for the player to be Instant Kicked and put on Ignore. The bad thing about this method is Guild Leaders talk to each other and this results in the player being put on more ignore lists and so on and so forth. This could result in a lot of unnecessary heart ache. I'm not going to waste 14 other peoples time because of your delicate feelings and ineptitude to understand the very basics of doing 50+ content. Instant kick + Ignore + Message to other Guild Leaders to do the same = a lot less players wasting their time on you.

I get you want to see all the content and experience the game in it's fullest. Unfortunately some of the content requires you to meet a certain threshold to do that content. I don't want to see anybody be put on the Instant Kick list if it can be helped. You advocate the opposite of that.

 

You do realize the payers did not create the level of difficulty for each given FP right? I mean you do understand that don't you?

I don't think they do. I think that they believe that once they hit 50 that they should be able to do all the content and get all that nifty gear they see on the swtor web page. They don't understand that certain Operations and Flash Points require you to have a certain amount of Tier 1 Equipment before being able to move onto the next one. That some Operations require a certain amount of Tier 1+Tier 2 to complete... and some even require Tier 3 and some Tier 4 to be able to complete. Understanding that Operations have varying degree's of difficulty is waaaayyy to hard for some of these people to understand. All they understand is they just turned 50 and they keep getting kicked out of doing Hard Mode Denova because the evil Operation Leader has something against them.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Kitzinger

[thomasgallant]

You do realize the payers did not create the level of difficulty for each given FP right? I mean you do understand that don't you?

 

yes i understand that.. and i understand that some gear is required to complete flashpoints, but you do understand that some people use the gear tool as a way to be elitest asses in other games and it isnt a far stretch to see it happeneing on swtor... and though not everyone will do that, there are some of us that feel that the complaints of people who..

 

1 ) no one will group with me they constantly loko at my armor and kick me out

2) the people who complain there is no one to group with cuase everyone sucks

 

on the forums is crap that we dont care to read.. if people want to look at someones armor and make sure they can do the fp then by all means.. go to town, im all for that. but this system is so easily abused it makes the community into elitest jerks, and thats one of the big problems of wow..isnt it?

[Seregul]

yes i understand that.. and i understand that some gear is required to complete flashpoints, but you do understand that some people use the gear tool as a way to be elitest asses in other games and it isnt a far stretch to see it happeneing on swtor... and though not everyone will do that, there are some of us that feel that the complaints of people who..

 

1 ) no one will group with me they constantly loko at my armor and kick me out

2) the people who complain there is no one to group with cuase everyone sucks

 

on the forums is crap that we dont care to read.. if people want to look at someones armor and make sure they can do the fp then by all means.. go to town, im all for that. but this system is so easily abused it makes the community into elitest jerks, and thats one of the big problems of wow..isnt it?

 

What is being suggested couldn't be used by players at all.

[Reevax]

yes i understand that.. and i understand that some gear is required to complete flashpoints, but you do understand that some people use the gear tool as a way to be elitest asses in other games and it isnt a far stretch to see it happeneing on swtor... and though not everyone will do that, there are some of us that feel that the complaints of people who..

 

1 ) no one will group with me they constantly loko at my armor and kick me out

2) the people who complain there is no one to group with cuase everyone sucks

 

on the forums is crap that we dont care to read.. if people want to look at someones armor and make sure they can do the fp then by all means.. go to town, im all for that. but this system is so easily abused it makes the community into elitest jerks, and thats one of the big problems of wow..isnt it?

 

All they have to do is build a gear check into the system it self, to avoid any really bad matches. You act like people being elite jerks is caused by the tool itself.

 

I am setting up a HM OPs run. I ask in chat and you roll up in quest greens. Would be more or less upset that I kicked you out of the raid because it was via chat and not a matching tool?

[thomasgallant]

All they have to do is build a gear check into the system it self, to avoid any really bad matches. You act like people being elite jerks is caused by the tool itself.

 

I am setting up a HM OPs run. I ask in chat and you roll up in quest greens. Would be more or less upset that I kicked you out of the raid because it was via chat and not a matching tool?

 

id be more upset if you just kicked me from your group without explaining why.. ( which is what i have seen with lfg gear tools) if you explained that my gear is subpar personally i would accept that as a good enough reason... and go get bettter gear.. though i might ask for some help from someone who has better gear.. ie you..

 

regardless it doesnt create the elitest jerks.. but it does promote the attitude. sadly

[Kalfear]

Hmm, that's strange..

All these threads from people saying that a LFG tool would make everyone more social and build up the overall SWTOR community because it would allow *all* players to group up and enjoy the game in an atmosphere where you didn't need to spend forever looking for specific people in order to do FPs.

 

Now we see that it's yet another way to shun players who aren't up to whatever arbitrary standards set by a minority.

 

What do you want next? A mandatory upload of each potential group member's latest combat log so you can scrutinize it before they join? Maybe a checkbox for only those with Bio? Maybe a Founder's only option so those newer players who aren't worthy of you can't participate?

 

No shock there!

 

Its this gear score (sorry OP, thats EXACTLY what your asking for) mentality since WOW has really ruined the social concept of games.

 

Main reason why I personally do not agree Raiding is a social activity.

 

But part of problem is the modern devs making the design choice of gear > skill/ability

 

Hate to say it but you can be a complete dumb *** and fit in nicely in the average raid if your gear up to snuff.

Where as a player that tries to use tactics and stratagy will not even be allowed in if their gear score doesnt match artificial expectations!

 

In Rift I joined a Big Raid guild for my last 2 weeks in that game and saw quite possibly one of the worst players I seen in last 21 years of MMORPGs completely freak out and insult a guy because he had 1 stat on his teir 2 epic gear that wasnt usable for his class. Forget all the other stats were usable and he was holding his own very well during the raid. The terrible player went off on the guy in vent for having one out of place stat on one peice of gear.

 

That was the last time I ever Raided in a MMORPG cause the gear score mentality is completely out of touch with reality.

 

Much rather go back to DAoC/EQ days where gear helpped but knowing your class and your skills is what really mattered! Where ability and understanding of class are what seperate you from the pack.

 

Now a days they all buy a peice of gear and think their amazing and uber!

[DarthFamine]

No gear check on lfg tool.

 

If you can't be bothered to take the time to look at a potential team mate then you should go play a single player game

[Blackardin]

If everyone would take a second to read this reminder. This is what the OP stated, not a gear score that can be scruitinized by other players.

 

Clarification: I want a built in feature incorporated into the LFG tool that restricts what you can queue for based on level and gear rating. I do NOT want the restrictions players generated (like they CURRENTLY are in the game). Since the devs have created a gear gated game (enrage timers, tiered content, etc...) then it is obvious to me that they need a way to enforce such gating, which the preview of the LFG tool failed to show.

 

A gating system is absolutely required just as it is required for planets, heroics etc. We do not need to know the score of each player. We do not need to know our score, just if we qualify for a remote chance at succeeding in the particular heroic. Nothing at all wrong with that.

[Vankris]

I suppose an absolute minimum requirement, below which it's unreasonable to attempt the flashpoint /operation is necessary. If the game does not do it, i have the feeling the player will.

 

- It's easier to not let people enter rather than let them enter and kick them out later no, harder to do, harder on their feeling, overall, i would prefer not letting queue than getting rejected by my fellow players.

 

- I imagine the vote to kick, as bioware said they are working on such a system, will have limitation to not be abuse (for instance, kick player right before last boss to let a friend join) so there might be a timer or other restriction.

 

- i wonder if bw will introduce a deserter buff, to avoid group jumping.

 

 

In conclusion. I do not think a LFG tool will magically transform the player base into actual good player but it should have some safety tool design to ensure the maximum enjoyment of everyone.

[MasterKayote]

I definitely think there should be a gear check in with the lfg tool, just completely remove it from the players hands. Bioware made the game, they set the difficulty, and balance the game accordingly... they should know what kind of gear is minimum requirment for a specific FP/Ops.

 

Do not, however, give players the ability to scrutinize another or have some "ilevel" for gear they can check to judge others. If the tool lets you queue in for an op's group it should be because Bioware has thoroughly tested the encounter, and has determined youre ready gear-wise, assuming a fair level of skill.

 

No idea why someone would be against something like that. If youre a fresh 50 and your highest level of gear is the few Correlia pieces you just bought with your commendations ... with only 10k health, you shouldnt be able to queue for KP.

Edited June 7, 2012 by MasterKayote

[Blackardin]

In Rift I joined a Big Raid guild for my last 2 weeks in that game and saw quite possibly one of the worst players I seen in last 21 years of MMORPGs completely freak out and insult a guy because he had 1 stat on his teir 2 epic gear that wasnt usable for his class. Forget all the other stats were usable and he was holding his own very well during the raid. The terrible player went off on the guy in vent for having one out of place stat on one peice of gear.

 

I think I've met that guy. ;p

 

This is not actually an argument against the LFG tool, but a strong argument against a cross server LFG tool. A guy like this will, soon enough, own a reputation that will shy others away from him and leave him, once again, tucked nicely in a guild that will tolerate him.

 

Personally, I've dragged many an under-geared, unfamiliar group through dungeon runs. Quite often I've found them to be far more enjoyable then dealing with full geared jackwagons.

 

Ignore and friend-lists are great tools.

[Rafaman]

Well OP, you knew what you were going to get as noted in your red wall of text. Quite simply, if we are indeed a community, you have to live with the fact that inexperienced players may be a part of a pug. What they need is instruction and direction. It can be done easily and in a friendly fashion and to the benefit of all, if you are interested in the community that is. And that might also mean that you have to wait a little longer to complete your group. Not an issue since it won't happen that often. Besides if this is really an issue for you, you can choose not to pug HMs. You can still group without the LFG tool.

[Larity]

Oh look an elitist thread.

 

 

And I doubt this "LFG" tool will change anything. Chat will still be spammed and tool will be forgotten.

[ZudetGambeous]

I wish I knew where the myth that 100% of undergeared players are all perfect, have perfect specs, perfect rotations, never stand in fire, never break CC, and are wonderful people, but as soon as you obtain gear you are guaranteed to break every CC ever, head directly into anything that does damage to you, and makes you become a complete jerk comes from....

 

It's a completely absurd idea. It is FAR FAR more likely that the reason someone is in all greens is simply because they are BAD players and are not capable of getting better gear. It's pretty simple, players with gear have necessarily seen and cleared the content required to get the gear. Which means you can be 100% sure that at the very least they have better stats and are not so bad that they cause groups to fail, because if they were that bad then they wouldn't have been able to get the gear in the first place.

 

Guess what, every one of us when we got to 50 was in lower level gear, we weren't magically given top tier gear. We ran instances and ops to obtain better gear and slowly geared up. There is no mystical force preventing anyone else from doing the exact same thing. Find 3 other fresh 50's and do what every other fresh 50 has done, learn the content and get the gear. If you happen to know already geared players who are willing to run you through then great, even better for you.

[Jett-Rinn]

And this is why I stick with my guild LFG has never been a issue for me and therefore I don't have to worry about those that think a video game equals some sort of life achievement.

 

I'm not a fan of GW2 at all but that is one thing that Anet beat...they built their game so elitist jerks can't judge you and they have no issue banning people who degrade others in game. Bioware biggest issue has always been that they chase after this two percent demographic of loot tramps and basically let everything else go to hell.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[Timadan]

The LFG tool needs to take gear score into consideration period. The devs designed the game with gear checks at every corner, not the players.

 

The tool should check gear scores, and only enable instances that are equivalent to the quers score.

 

People say this is anti social, I don't see how that can be. What is anti social is dumping someone in a group with gear that won't enable them to even begin to stand up in the instance and then burdening the other members of the group with dealing with it. This is will cause far more animosity in the community than if the player had never been placed in the group to begin with.

 

Earlier in the thread someone said this won't happen often, last night on the test server of the 4 groups entered 3 of them had someone in gear that was no where near sufficient. You just can not do hard mode EC in tionese gear period, why would a system even put someone in that situation?

 

The LFG tool was one of the features that I thought stood a chance at some reviving of the game in it's current form I don't see it.

 

Broken game is still broken!

[cyberfreaq]

If a gear check is implemented, how will poorly geared players be able to get better equipment?

In fact, the LFG tool will be useless to these players, as it will only be used by epic geared players.

So there is a big problem there.

 

A Gear check should not exist UNLESS there is a gear matchmaking system AND monster scaling in the instances.

Edited June 7, 2012 by cyberfreaq

[mothear]

If a gear check is implemented, how will poorly geared players be able to get better equipment?

In fact, the LFG tool will be useless to these players, as it will only be used by epic geared players.

So there is a big problem there. A Gear check should not exist.

 

1. Run the easier hard modes

2. Do dailies and spend your commendations on good gear;

3. Buy it

 

The problem is people don't want to do the intervening steps because they believe that they are entitled to see all of the content when they hit 50 without having to gear up first.

[bornebol]

1. Run the easier hard modes

2. Do dailies and spend your commendations on good gear;

3. Buy it

 

The problem is people don't want to do the intervening steps because they believe that they are entitled to see all of the content when they hit 50 without having to gear up first.

 

this is so true. gear progression is now a phrase that belongs to the old ways of mmos.

[Jett-Rinn]

1. Run the easier hard modes

2. Do dailies and spend your commendations on good gear;

3. Buy it

 

The problem is people don't want to do the intervening steps because they believe that they are entitled to see all of the content when they hit 50 without having to gear up first.

 

It doesn't matter elitism is already showing up in the regular modes already...it is going to be a fact of life just like WoW, I'm glad LFG is there for those that want it but it isn't doing the community any favors.

[EcrirTwyLar]

If a gear check is implemented, how will poorly geared players be able to get better equipment?

In fact, the LFG tool will be useless to these players, as it will only be used by epic geared players.

So there is a big problem there.

 

A Gear check should not exist UNLESS there is a gear matchmaking system AND monster scaling in the instances.

 

This is not true. What people are saying is that the LFG tool should only allow you to queue for a Flashpoint that you have the appropriate gear level for. So a new level 50 may not be able to queue for Heroic Mode level 50 flashpoint until he acquires some gear in Normal mode flashpoints first.

 

I almost guarantee that there will be some sort of gear check in the LFG tool. Otherwise you will have people queuing for flashpoints that they cannot possibly hope to complete and it will only lead to frustration.

[Limedust]

Hmm, that's strange..

All these threads from people saying that a LFG tool would make everyone more social and build up the overall SWTOR community because it would allow *all* players to group up and enjoy the game in an atmosphere where you didn't need to spend forever looking for specific people in order to do FPs.

 

Now we see that it's yet another way to shun players who aren't up to whatever arbitrary standards set by a minority.

 

What do you want next? A mandatory upload of each potential group member's latest combat log so you can scrutinize it before they join? Maybe a checkbox for only those with Bio? Maybe a Founder's only option so those newer players who aren't worthy of you can't participate?

 

Read the post.

[Vankris]

If a gear check is implemented, how will poorly geared players be able to get better equipment?

In fact, the LFG tool will be useless to these players, as it will only be used by epic geared players.

So there is a big problem there.

 

A Gear check should not exist UNLESS there is a gear matchmaking system AND monster scaling in the instances.

 

Gear check does not stop you from getting gear, it only stop you from skipping step.

If you ding 50 on correlia with orange gear having the correlia comm mod, those are 49 blues i believe, the system definitely should prevent or at very least warn you that any hard mode flashpoint, and especially lost island, denova.... are still out of reach.

 

Maybe you should go through the normal progression path Daily + normal FP -> Tier 1 raid and FP -> tier 2 raid and FP (lost island, denova)

 

There is no shortcut, but anyone can progress their toon, their is no blocking as well.

 

 

Oh look an elitist thread.

 

 

And I doubt this "LFG" tool will change anything. Chat will still be spammed and tool will be forgotten.

 

Please define "elitist thread"

Edited June 7, 2012 by Vankris

[kuromeru]

I guess some people are to lazy to check the players gear after the invite?