No Gear Check in the LFG tool?

[Captain_Zone]

"If a magic hat created the perfect MMO that catered to everyone and nobody complained about anything in the game, someone would inevitably complain about the color of the hat." - A MMO developer.

 

LFG Tool: What you wanted.

 

No Gear Check: The color of the hat.

 

Any questions?

[RachelAnne]

Is this an e-peen thing so you can slam Bioware and say 'Your content is rubbish see I can do hard modes in 4X greens'? Of course you will omit the fact that you only did it because the other three in Rakata gear carried you through it!

 

If you want a specific challenge you should at least have the decency for other players and ensure you do it with your own group. It was the same in WoW where people would complain because an LFG group didn't want to run certain hardmode achievements.

 

If peoples think it is so important that they require an automated LFG (due to their limited play time) it is certainly equally important to have people with the appropriate (as decided by Bioware) gear for the instance. I've already seen threads here about people complaining that they have just hit 50 and decided to try hard modes and don't seem to understand the concept of having to gear up a wee bit first.

 

Nah you are wrong.

 

If you want to run a dungeon by overgearing it, rushing it or whatever then YOU MUST do your own group. If you queue at the LFG you can not demand this.

 

I always hated it at wow when you got into a dungeon and 2 players in raid gear demand a rush and ofc. the new lvl 85 healer cant keep them up while they stand in fire. Who got the blame? Ofc the healer, even tho he did nothing wrong but the high geared guys did.

 

 

If you want checks of whatever kind then BW must do them and the tool must be released without a kickvote. If the kickvote does get implemented then you cant have additional requirements.

 

If a player can queue for something but then still gets kicked all the time by elitist´s who want more than whats needed, he just stops queueing and quits.

 

Wow has that issue right now, hardly any new players stay as its no fun to be shown something that you can play but then when you get in you are kicked.

 

No matter what requirements BW would set, the elitist´s of the thread here will increase those and add new ones so that new players will have a hard time at this game.

[Kourage]

The tool isn't for you to sit in a queue for an hour and get automatically grouped.

It's to help you fill roles and find players. If it finds you players that don't meet your standards, then remove them and replace them. This notion that BioWare will do everything for you and that you don't have to talk to anyone ever is ridiculous!

 

There's nothing preventing you from kicking undergeared players out. The tool will help you find someone else!

[DarthTHC]

Your mistake is, that you have no right to say who is ready and who not.

 

I do not want to say who is ready and who is not. I want the game to say it. The game designers know the level of gear they gated the content for. I want them to enforce that within the tool by hiding or graying out content for which the player is not yet ready. Similarly to the way they do with level, only with gear. Similarly to the way WoW does it.

 

You were unable to finish dungeons, fine. But to think everyone is so "bad" is wrong. There are people who can play very well and better than you, just with worse gear.

 

I never said I couldn't finish dungeons. I am saying that without the proper gear, no party can finish a dungeon.

 

A tank without proper gear will not survive a boss fight and may not be able to hold aggro. A healer without proper gear will not be able to keep up with the incoming damage. DPS without proper gear will not be able to take down bosses before their enrage timers.

 

What is "proper gear"? Depends on the instance. BioWare knows the answer. I want them to gate the instance choices based on the answer they already know. So I don't waste my time getting into groups that cannot possibly complete content. And so that the community doesn't take it upon themselves to implement the feature socially, because the community's implementation will be much tougher than BioWare's. And that's exactly what will happen if BioWare doesn't implement the feature.

Edited June 7, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Ratajack]

The tool isn't for you to sit in a queue for an hour and get automatically grouped.

It's to help you fill roles and find players. If it finds you players that don't meet your standards, then remove them and replace them. This notion that BioWare will do everything for you and that you don't have to talk to anyone ever is ridiculous!

 

There's nothing preventing you from kicking undergeared players out. The tool will help you find someone else!

 

I disagree. If the tool finds you players that do not meet YOUR standards, then YOU should drop group and requeue, not remove player after player til you get your ideal group. If you want an ideal group, FORM one, don't use the LFD to PUG.

[Zmidponk]

Is this an e-peen thing so you can slam Bioware and say 'Your content is rubbish see I can do hard modes in 4X greens'? Of course you will omit the fact that you only did it because the other three in Rakata gear carried you through it!

 

Yes, of course, I want to be carried through content, that's why I'm talking about doing Molten Core with a bunch of just-dinged level 60s, wiping right, left and centre, yet still having a fun time, and talking about having the chance of doing challenging content, even if it just ends up with a wipefest.

 

That was sarcasm, by the way.

 

If you want a specific challenge you should at least have the decency for other players and ensure you do it with your own group. It was the same in WoW where people would complain because an LFG group didn't want to run certain hardmode achievements.

 

If peoples think it is so important that they require an automated LFG (due to their limited play time) it is certainly equally important to have people with the appropriate (as decided by Bioware) gear for the instance. I've already seen threads here about people complaining that they have just hit 50 and decided to try hard modes and don't seem to understand the concept of having to gear up a wee bit first.

 

I really thought what I was driving at came through loud and clear in the very post you quoted, but obviously heavy implication isn't enough for some people. If someone does not want me there, because they do not want to risk the merest possibility of a wipe and they think my gear level gives that chance, they may feel free to boot me or drop group. Doing this solves what you seem to think are serious problems, which, in fact, are simply not for this very reason.

[DarthTHC]

If someone does not want me there, because they do not want to risk the merest possibility of a wipe and they think my gear level gives that chance, they may feel free to boot me or drop group. Doing this solves what you seem to think are serious problems, which, in fact, are simply not for this very reason.

 

I'm saying if the game does it, then it will be fair and balanced. If the game does not do it then the players will do it, and the players will enforce a much higher level of gear than the game really requires.

 

It is in everyone's best interest for the game, rather than the players, to apply the gear check.

Edited June 7, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Wolfninjajedi]

"If a magic hat created the perfect MMO that catered to everyone and nobody complained about anything in the game, someone would inevitably complain about the color of the hat." - A MMO developer.

 

LFG Tool: What you wanted.

 

No Gear Check: The color of the hat.

 

Any questions?

 

Which dev has said that? Cause they deserve a prize.

[Darkulous]

"If a magic hat created the perfect MMO that catered to everyone and nobody complained about anything in the game, someone would inevitably complain about the color of the hat." - A MMO developer.

 

LFG Tool: What you wanted.

 

No Gear Check: The color of the hat.

 

Any questions?

 

Ya. Have you used a LFD before? Sounds like you haven't.

[JimG]

The standard aren't arbitrary and they are set by the developers.

 

So the player has nothing to do with it? I've seen plenty of players with better gear that don't have a clue what they are doing. For example, constantly breaking CC's with AOEs, not using interrupts, etc. The standards needed aren't as black-and-white as you suggest.

 

Therefore if you are in Tionese gear you should not be allowed to queue for Devona.

 

Is that all Tionese gear? Is that one piece of Tionese gear? What happens when I have different tiers of gear for different pieces of armor? What happens when I've got mods stripped from better gear and put into my orange gear? I could be in all orange gear. Again, it's not so black-and-white to set some minimum standard.

 

I've been saying since all the LFG talk started that, be careful what you wish for, we're going to get a lot of groups formed through the LFG tool that disband before they ever start because people don't like who they are grouped up with or you'll have people self-forming their groups anyway because they have certain requirements for their group. The LFG tool is not the magic medicine that some people think it will be.

[Zmidponk]

I'm saying if the game does it, then it will be fair and balanced. If the game does not do it then the players will do it, and the players will enforce a much higher level of gear than the game really requires.

 

It is in everyone's best interest for the game, rather than the players, to apply the gear check.

 

Frankly, if anything, the introduction of gear checks in the LFG Tool will only inspire these people to whine about how it's useless because it's set too low, when the reality is that they need overgeared players to faceroll content because the idea of risking (gasp!) wiping is too much for them to bear.

[DarthTHC]

Frankly, if anything, the introduction of gear checks in the LFG Tool will only inspire these people to whine about how it's useless because it's set too low, when the reality is that they need overgeared players to faceroll content because the idea of risking (gasp!) wiping is too much for them to bear.

 

So if the game does implement it, players might sometimes do it themselves.

 

But if the game does not implement it, players will definitely do it themselves.

 

Those are really the only two choices. Which is better?

[Rhilir]

shouldnt it at least see if you can do the instance. You dont want people doing hard modes they have no chance of doing.

[Tahana]

Frankly, if anything, the introduction of gear checks in the LFG Tool will only inspire these people to whine about how it's useless because it's set too low, when the reality is that they need overgeared players to faceroll content because the idea of risking (gasp!) wiping is too much for them to bear.

 

Would love a picture of your crystal ball.

[Captain_Zone]

Which dev has said that? Cause they deserve a prize.

 

Wish I could remember the guy's name.

[Captain_Zone]

Ya. Have you used a LFD before? Sounds like you haven't.

 

And do you want the game to hold your hand every step of the way, do all your thinking for you, etc?

 

It's simple. Get someone in group, inspect player, see what they're wearing, ask them to change into PvP or PvE gear depending on what you're going to do, and if he doesn't, boot him and try again.

 

If that takes up too much of your time, then that's your personal cross to bear.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[mothear]

Yes, of course, I want to be carried through content, that's why I'm talking about doing Molten Core with a bunch of just-dinged level 60s, wiping right, left and centre, yet still having a fun time, and talking about having the chance of doing challenging content, even if it just ends up with a wipefest.

 

That was sarcasm, by the way.

 

As you're not, or won't be, using a group finder to do this this it's totally irrelevant to the discussion - but good luck to you, I hope you succeed (not sarcasm).

 

I really thought what I was driving at came through loud and clear in the very post you quoted, but obviously heavy implication isn't enough for some people. If someone does not want me there, because they do not want to risk the merest possibility of a wipe and they think my gear level gives that chance, they may feel free to boot me or drop group. Doing this solves what you seem to think are serious problems, which, in fact, are simply not for this very reason. Does, 'cannot be kicked for the next x hours' ring a bell from your WoW days? LFG will be abused by people (opinion) I would just like to see some kind of minimum gear set (by Bioware), even if it just has to be bought, to get you into HM.

 

Of course what will probably happen is that under perforning pugs will fail and when Bioware look at their metrics they will nerf the hell out of the instance, but that's another story

[ZudetGambeous]

So the player has nothing to do with it? I've seen plenty of players with better gear that don't have a clue what they are doing. For example, constantly breaking CC's with AOEs, not using interrupts, etc. The standards needed aren't as black-and-white as you suggest.

 

You're adding arbitrary complexity to try to form an argument. Yes I can also run in circles and never attack someone while wearing full rakata gear, it really has nothing to do with the argument though. It is in fact very black and white...

 

Black: Boss has 5 minute enrage timer with 1 million HP. DPS needs an average of ~1000 dps to kill boss

 

White: Only allow players with gear that provides a DPS cap of 1000+ dps to queue for said instance.

 

This conversation is about the absolute minimum required gear to clear the instance assuming perfect players. Any other arbitrary standards or what-if scenarios are not relevant. If the gear the player is wearing allows them to be physically capable of doing 1000 dps then they should be allowed to queue, if not then they shouldn't.

 

 

 

Is that all Tionese gear? Is that one piece of Tionese gear? What happens when I have different tiers of gear for different pieces of armor? What happens when I've got mods stripped from better gear and put into my orange gear? I could be in all orange gear. Again, it's not so black-and-white to set some minimum standard.

 

That is exactly enough tionese gear to allow the perfect player to clear the instance, no more no less. The devs have those numbers, so implementing it is their problem not mine.

[bbbricksquad]

LOL

 

All I know is that I'll be kicking people in greens. Gear check or not

 

I don't care if the guy is a beast at his class. The gear will limit his dps that will gimp the groups overall dps. It is simple math people. Two guys in greens doing 400 dps each won't beat a single enrage timer no matter how good they are at mechanics and their rotations period.

Edited June 7, 2012 by bbbricksquad

[RachelAnne]

LOL

 

All I know is that I'll be kicking people in greens. Gear check or not

 

I don't care if the guy is a beast at his class. The gear will limit his dps that will gimp the groups overall dps. It is simple math people. Two guys in greens doing 400 dps each won't beat a single enrage timer no matter how good they are at mechanics and their rotations period.

 

No encounters are purely about dps, ok Lootreaver at wow was but if your high dps guys did die in the orbs they were useless.

 

No group is working on the limit, in a raid you always have players that do like 120% thats needed and some that do 80% based on gear. It will all even up in the end, what wont even up is the noobish behaivour of high equipped players that think gear is what plays for them.

 

I would always take a bad equipped one that knows how to play over a high end geared that does not. Unfortunately do many that join those old dungeons in high gear, suck badly.

 

 

In the end I find it very sad that games have become a pure measurement since wow WOTLK. What happened to just playing a game together for fun? Everyone today wants to judge and exclude others, games are supposed to be played together and not against each others. Go play CS if you want that.

[nasco]

This is exactly what i dread the LFG tools for. Some Hyper-cool kids who start judging others....I am sorry, but that is why I was always against LFG. Look at history, and learn from it. A certain other MMO community and sociality has been already destroyed by it, so at least lets try and not destroy this one (if it can still be salvaged, i have no idea. Thank god Trolls are only on the forums and not in-game). And for you so called "Elitists": if you have the super duper end gear, DONT PUG! GO run with your guild or others like you. There - problem solved.

 

I certainly enjoy pugging, even if sometimes people who join dont know what to do, or how to do it. You communicate, help, teach, and actually enjoy the content before it's over.

 

So stop judging the LFG before it's even out. And stop judging people by some "made up" standarts.

 

Infact, it's you who should be judged, because clearly you can't play socially and friendly!

 

End of my rant, you can continue your complaints:)

[Nyoro]

The group finder is a great addition, for sure, however a gear check it vital as encounters are designed around group members having the gear to output a certain amount of DPS, HPS or having enough mitigation. It doesn't matter if the player is the most skilled in the universe, if they don't have the gear they won't be able to do the flashpoint.

 

Without gear check the group finder will not work properly for higher rank encounters, having the under geared queue will be frustrating and time wasting for all members.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Nyoro

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Hmm, that's strange..

All these threads from people saying that a LFG tool would make everyone more social and build up the overall SWTOR community because it would allow *all* players to group up and enjoy the game in an atmosphere where you didn't need to spend forever looking for specific people in order to do FPs.

 

Now we see that it's yet another way to shun players who aren't up to whatever arbitrary standards set by a minority.

 

What do you want next? A mandatory upload of each potential group member's latest combat log so you can scrutinize it before they join? Maybe a checkbox for only those with Bio? Maybe a Founder's only option so those newer players who aren't worthy of you can't participate?

 

^this

quoted for truth

 

now there is a LFG tool, constant elitist requests for insane filter options will be seen daily

Edited June 7, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Kitzinger]

Hmm, that's strange..

All these threads from people saying that a LFG tool would make everyone more social and build up the overall SWTOR community because it would allow *all* players to group up and enjoy the game in an atmosphere where you didn't need to spend forever looking for specific people in order to do FPs.

 

Now we see that it's yet another way to shun players who aren't up to whatever arbitrary standards set by a minority.

 

They aren't asking about simple Flash Points but Hard Mode Operations and a certain Hard Mode Flash Point (Lost Island) where a person not having the required set of gear will wipe a group. You have a problem with these people wanting a gear standard on LFG Tool then I think we be allowed to put you (and those that think like you) into a group (dressed in Green Gear) and made to do HM Lost Island for five hours straight...

The reason there is certain tiers of Equipment in the game is because some Operations and certain Hard Mode Flash Points require those tiers of Equipment to be worn by everybody in the Party. One player in sub-standard equipment will destroy the ability of everyone being able to complete the Mission. Your statement is like saying that "Lvl 1's shouldn't be disqualified from doing Voss 4 man Heroics in the LFG Tool."

A better way to think of it. From Lvl 1-50 you have Levels... From Lvl 50 on you have Tiered Equipment which is the same as Lvls. Those who run the operations expect those who volunteer to do these operations to meet a minimum Equipment standard. Not meet a certain Lvl means you don't get to do the mission. All that is going to happen is when the person doesn't meet the minimum standard they are going to get instant kicked and put on ignore. A LFG Equipment Standard for Operations and certain Hard Mode Flash Points does away with the confusion and the pain that goes with being kicked.

[thomasgallant]

^this

quoted for truth

 

now there is a LFG tool, constant elitist requests for insane filter options will be seen daily

 

THIS is why i was against the lfg tool... anyone who asked.. there is your answer..

 

you got a lfg tool and now you want a way to make people not group with you. ( not you poster.. fyi:P)

 

people dont want a lfg tool so they can group they want it so they can push people out of groups who do not have max perfect gear and stats. lame