MWidowmaker Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Ah.. so *you* weren't able to do EV storymode in Greens DarthTHC. Many others were able to. Yet you want to have the ability to refuse access to your group because you weren't able to do something others could? Do you not see how arbitrary such a LFG limitation would be? exagerations are stupid Edited May 22, 2012 by MWidowmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzytoad Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 exagerations are stupid Who's exaggerating? One poster says EV storymode is completely doable in greens, DarthTHC says EV storymode is impossible in greens. If both of them are in a group and someone in greens joins for EV storymode, DarthTHC is going to kick the guy because he wasn't able to do EV storymode in greens and can't possibly understand why the person joining isn't geared. That's what will happen if a gear checker is included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Well I agree that there should be a gear check done by the client for some FPs/Ops. From personal experience, places like LI are impossible with undergeared players. And I definitely do not want to see these places nerfed because of it. However, this gear check should be left to the client only. Do NOT allow players to check "ilevel" of others. I trust Bioware to know what is acceptable, and what a certain FP was balaced for more than "Timmy the Tool" who really just wants an easy run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codek Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Last I checked, it was pretty easy to clear EV with a full group of fresh 50's. On top of how easy it is to get purple gear in this game, the chances of a raid forming without at least 1 geared player is next to nothing. EV is and will always be a piece of cake with the LFG tool. KP is relatively the same but most ops will fail once they hit the creepers (oh well...). EC story, from what I can tell, is possible to queue for with the LFG. I would expect everyone using the tool to queue for EC will understand the risks involved with this. you CANNOT queue for HM's/Nightmare so no problem there. ....So where is the problem? Edited May 22, 2012 by Codek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Who's exaggerating? One poster says EV storymode is completely doable in greens, DarthTHC says EV storymode is impossible in greens. If both of them are in a group and someone in greens joins for EV storymode, DarthTHC is going to kick the guy because he wasn't able to do EV storymode in greens and can't possibly understand why the person joining isn't geared. That's what will happen if a gear checker is included. I think he said the tank can't do it in greens, and hes right. The healers probably cant, either. The DPS might be able to, only if another DPS over-gears the instance and pulls enough damage to pick up the slack - and that is assuming everything goes according to plan. Its not really a black and white rule here. There are shades of grey. The big issue is that people will be trying to clear instances in gear that isn't suitable for the content they are trying to run. The general rule of thumb is this - if everyone had the same level of gear as you, would the instance be doable? If the answer is no, then you shouldn't be there and Bioware should prevent you from doing so via the LFG tool. Edited May 22, 2012 by Frostvein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazzer Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The standard aren't arbitrary and they are set by the developers. I really have no idea what you are talking about. Devona is physically impossible to clear if your tank is in Tionese gear. It doesn't matter how good of a player you are, you don't have enough health to survive, end of story, no discussion. Therefore if you are in Tionese gear you should not be allowed to queue for Devona. I'm not trying to exclude anyone that isn't already excluded. Certain gear is required to clear certain content, its not a mystery or some conspiracy elitist theory, its just how the game is designed. This is a gear based game, so not very surprisingly the content is gear gated. But here is the problem, your post is accurate until you say "should not be allowed to ..." the game gates with gear, agreed, you need certain gear levels to attempt certain content, agreed. But the group demographic is set by the group members, you can't create a rule to block players from queuing for an operation. Once you start down that road then there are a number of rules that come with it: 1) under minimum gear, can't queue for Op (your suggestion). 2) meets minimum gear cannot be refused for group (only fair). 3) over geared cannot queue for content (it minimises it and is the counter point for 1st rule). All or nothing in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosKirin Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I think it's a good idea. Currently, I am undergeared as HELL. Why would I want to go into an instance only to repeatedly die and cost my teammates a victory? I would really appreciate a tool that would tell me if I wasn't ready for said instance. If I reeeeally want to try it undergeared, I can look for a group the old-fashioned way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollokdamus Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Ah.. so *you* weren't able to do EV storymode in Greens DarthTHC. Many others were able to. Yet you want to have the ability to refuse access to your group because you weren't able to do something others could? Do you not see how arbitrary such a LFG limitation would be? You know who were able to clear that in greens? Guilds, coordinated groups using the voice chat. You can't expect the same performance from PUGs. That's what will happen if a gear checker is included. This just shows that you have absolutely no clue about what the said Gear Check is. The person who doesn't meet the minimal requerements to do something won't be able to queue for it in the first place. It's not players who decide what this requirements are, but Bioware itself, integrating it into the tool. So when the said person tries to queue, the tool gives him a message: "We are sorry but your gear doesn't meet the requirements to enter this place. We would suggest you to do this and this and that to improve it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzytoad Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 This just shows that you have absolutely no clue about what the said Gear Check is. The person who doesn't meet the minimal requerements to do something won't be able to queue for it in the first place. I already said I'd be fine with something automated like that. Nobody here is arguing against an automated function which either doesn't let you queue, or gives you very explicit warnings. I'm against the other players being given the option to exclude other players based on their gear. Something which is being argued for in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Ah.. so *you* weren't able to do EV storymode in Greens DarthTHC. Many others were able to. Yet you want to have the ability to refuse access to your group because you weren't able to do something others could? Do you not see how arbitrary such a LFG limitation would be? I know right? I can't believe all these elitists, they sound like those guys from the government who told me I couldn't practice medicine because I didn't go to "Med School". I can do everything those guys can do, its elitist to put restrictions and requirements on my ability to earn a living. These elitists probably don't think I should be able to let my 8 year old drive either. Its just pure elitism that the government says you have to be 16 years old and have a "drivers license" in order to drive a car. They act like all these requirements are there to "protect society", but we all know its just elitism. I'm sick of elitists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirab Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 This is why I was against lfg tool. This. We don't even have the tool yet and there already is the first flamewar about it. Can't wait till we get to lootwars ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevax Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 This. We don't even have the tool yet and there already is the first flamewar about it. Can't wait till we get to lootwars ... Its a silly argument. If you cant keep up with heals, damage, or rage timers then you should not be in the run. Players do not decide these factors, they are decided by the people who made the FPs and OPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosKirin Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 What about an automated tool that checks your gear and doesn't let you enter an instance without passing is elitist? That's what the OP was asking for... right? O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) What about an automated tool that checks your gear and doesn't let you enter an instance without passing is elitist? That's what the OP was asking for... right? O.o Automated tools are elitist. I don't want some computer program telling me I can't queue up for Lost Island in full greens if I want to. Its ELITIST! Edited May 22, 2012 by NDiggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazzer Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 To be honest, it doesn't take much work to get entry level to the Operations, I mean a full suit of orange armour, with purples from the dailies in the Armour and hilt/barrel slots and you can have a mix of level 50 green and blue in all other slots (which you should have by finishing your class story very easily), ear pieces and implants can be blue and you are just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosKirin Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Automated tools are elitist. I don't want some computer program telling me I can't queue up for Lost Island in full greens if I want to. Its ELITIST! Well, honestly I was hoping to queue up naked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Well, honestly I was hoping to queue up naked. And anyone who says you shouldn't is elitist. Its your god given right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pureeffinmetal Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 First people complain they don't have a LFG tool. Now they are complaining about the LFG tool's features before its even been implemented in game yet. At what point do we realize people are just complaining for the sake of complaining. No game is perfect, if you think one is, by all means go play it and please delete your forum account on the way out. There is enough complaining all ready. On topic: I took my marauder through every HM (pre 1.2) the day he hit 50 in level 40 blues. We never hit one enrage timer, (including Bulwark). The gear check's in HM Flashpoints are not that severe. They are competence checks, if nothing else. Lost Island may be an exception, but enough people know that all ready. I doubt you're going to have to deal with many people in greens queuing up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timesjoke Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The reason for the LFG tool is people can't find groups to do content. My own server shows a good population for at most 4 hours during the evenings and the rest of the time it is a ghost town, I have even seen the fatman show low pop during the day and they are considered the big dog. In a perfect world we would have a large pool of perfectly geared people all standing there ready to raid but this is not the case for most of the day on all servers so it is really a decision of maybe trying to do a run a little less geared or simply do nothing because otherwise you are stuck on single player content. I reached lvl 50 in about 3 weeks after release and I have what I consider to be pretty good gear for what I can get solo. The problem is I have spent hours looking for groups to do other content for better gear and have never found even 1 group in all this time for an 8 man run, I can't even get 4 man heroics because there is nobody playing during the day. This LFG tool will not help for 20+ hours out of the day because there is nobody to group with, if they add in a strict gear requirement it will only be worse. We need to close about half the servers to reach a reasonable population level, then the LFG tool could easily have gear checks and still have plenty of players to choose from, otherwise 97% of all players will never get to see any of the endgame content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 And anyone who says you shouldn't is elitist. Its your god given right. I was going to mention something similar about queuing up naked, but I remember having arguments on the WoW forums with the same type of people who were complaining about being excluded from raids due to lack of gear and just decided it wasn't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trussasp Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 From a common-sense standpoint, it's better for the state of the game to have guys like you ************ about people using the LFG tool with crap gear, than it is to have even more people quit. Probably they can stick a gear check in after it's in place, and working successfully... Like how with the 80+ instances WoW requires a certain iLevel... And the way you get around it is to buy green stuff on the AH, which doesn't even have to have your primary stats in use at all, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBoogly Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hmm, that's strange.. All these threads from people saying that a LFG tool would make everyone more social and build up the overall SWTOR community because it would allow *all* players to group up and enjoy the game in an atmosphere where you didn't need to spend forever looking for specific people in order to do FPs. Now we see that it's yet another way to shun players who aren't up to whatever arbitrary standards set by a minority. What do you want next? A mandatory upload of each potential group member's latest combat log so you can scrutinize it before they join? Maybe a checkbox for only those with Bio? Maybe a Founder's only option so those newer players who aren't worthy of you can't participate? I agree and apparently the OP is one of those people whom are very, very proud of his make believe video game items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I was going to mention something similar about queuing up naked, but I remember having arguments on the WoW forums with the same type of people who were complaining about being excluded from raids due to lack of gear and just decided it wasn't worth it. Honestly, I should be able to run any content I want starting at level 1. Anyone who disagrees is elitist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docmal Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Ah.. so *you* weren't able to do EV storymode in Greens DarthTHC. Many others were able to. Yet you want to have the ability to refuse access to your group because you weren't able to do something others could? Do you not see how arbitrary such a LFG limitation would be? You are so full of it. There aren't many classes that can beat their solo on the Council in green gear. You were probobly carried through EV SM by a decently geared tank and healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegedeluxe Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) The standard aren't arbitrary and they are set by the developers. I really have no idea what you are talking about. Devona is physically impossible to clear if your tank is in Tionese gear. It doesn't matter how good of a player you are, you don't have enough health to survive, end of story, no discussion. Therefore if you are in Tionese gear you should not be allowed to queue for Devona. I'm not trying to exclude anyone that isn't already excluded. Certain gear is required to clear certain content, its not a mystery or some conspiracy elitist theory, its just how the game is designed. This is a gear based game, so not very surprisingly the content is gear gated. Sound logic does not go well with entitled casuals. Edited May 22, 2012 by siegedeluxe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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