metaIsaber Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Server population at the start screwed the game from the get go. BW over expanded servers and now stuck with tons of light servers. What I can't understand is why MMOs use "servers". What I mean is there should only be 1 server with multiple instances. That way there is never any I picked the wrong server at launch because everyone is on the same server. So with multiple instances, you can still join friends for WZs/Raids/FPs/Questing and don't have any of the downsides or completely isolated servers. Not to mention there is no need for server mergers or transfers to think about. Edited May 21, 2012 by metaIsaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 It has nothing to do with bad luck. TOR had everything going for it to be successful. Huge budget, the Star Wars name, a well-known developer, a gigantic following. Most of the people I have talked to quit for the exact same reason - they cite empty promises, lack of content, lack of bug fixes, and world that feels "static" as why they are quitting. Most of them had hoped to stay for a long time but finally gave up on the game. EXACTLY! All of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelf Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) 1. I think the SWTOR decison makers at EA/LA/BW did not have the right feeling for "trends". e.g. Space Combat. LA totally missed the train. Can´t count how many times I´ve seen requests for a X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter revamp on multlple forums and game sites. Or Battlefront III. Instead.. they are doing dumb kids stuff like Star Wars Kinect. Bleh. Lego Star Wars. Meh. Where are the times when Star Wars games used to be cool and bad a**?? Cmon now, Star Wars has been targeted towards kids since Return Of The Jedi. It's been about selling toys much like everything 80s. Kids are the most impulsive "buyers". I can agree with the OP, except with console games at the end of a generation were usually programmed well as every nuance for design had been explored on that system. This game runs terribly for looking like a game from 3-4 years ago (coincidentally same major complaint from previous EA MMO Warhammer), every attack is a particle effect and no options to tone it down, this is why Ilum was a failure. It doesn't help that you can get XPs and levels in most games now. So easy to burn out on that ratrace on games that are more fun. Edited May 21, 2012 by RocNessMonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morto Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Ummm no! Game had 500 million budget, if they didnt planned ahead (prepared) for what's going on atm then sadly...game deserves to die Edited May 21, 2012 by Morto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Other than releasing before it was ready, I don't think timing had anything to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylancholy Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 subscriptions aren't going away. the opposite. the new games will have subs AND a cash shop. also, I fail to see how you can say subscriptions are going and then in your next post obviously aim at Tera, not having the 'traditional combat' I'll tell you two things: 1) TERA has a monthly sub 2) The Chronicles of Spellborn I was actually talking about guild wars, which is doing away with the monthly sub model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylancholy Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 I'm reading all the responses. This has been informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I think that logic comes from thinking games like Diablo 3 and GW2 are going to re-write the mmo genre. We have Diablo 3 at release now and it just isn't more than a fun dungeon crawler that you can beat in a couple of days playing casually. GW2 from playing beta doesn't have much end game, so after playing it through there isn't much to do either as near as I can tell. At least with Bioware and the sub we are getting regular new content for our 50 characters while we play other classes and the other faction story lines, that's not bad in my book.I love when people try to convince others that a $15-a-month supposed MMO released 6 months earlier has more content then a just-released FTP online RPG. When you even have to make THAT argument, you know things are bad. "Regular new content" = once every three months? LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrigan Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 SW:TOR just did major design mistakes which are most likely due to both the ignorance of Bioware when it comes to MMORPGs added to the will of Electronic Arts to make a successful "WoW in space" clone. Actually, I think EA hurt SW:TOR more than Bioware by rushing it's release in December when the real release should have happened with the content of the 1.2 patch. Story is just not enough to keep a player's attention on the long term. Re-playability for alts is poor too, very few want to level a second character on the same side just to be forced through exactly the same planets and non-story content again. This said, despite the fact that in a few days my subscriptions will expire and I will no longer be a customer, the game is still a success, and the doom-sayers are wrong. I don't see SW:TOR "die" anytime soon in the years to come, and I predict Bioware/EA will get the money invested back with profits. But it could have been so much more than it is it's really sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylancholy Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 to those of you itt who think the monthly sub model is forever, you'll see a big change coming through. it's a big reason why swtor's subs are dropping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediZenn Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 It has nothing to do with bad luck. TOR had everything going for it to be successful. Huge budget, the Star Wars name, a well-known developer, a gigantic following. Most of the people I have talked to quit for the exact same reason - they cite empty promises, lack of content, lack of bug fixes, and world that feels "static" as why they are quitting. Most of them had hoped to stay for a long time but finally gave up on the game. Hope to stay for a "long time", "give up" after 6 months. Somehow I question their initial resolve. I'm enjoying the game a lot, I can't wait to level my Chiss Sith Warrior in about 12 levels. I'm enjoying my Agent story a LOT, I'll be here for awhile, I'm not a quitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temad Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 TOR's problems have more to do with not learning from the MMOs that came before it. What worked? What didn't? LFG system, customizable UIs (real customizing not Bioware giving you a few options), a real auction house/market system, a dynamic crafting system, etc..etc. If SWTOR has been released in 2004 the lack of those things is totally excusable. SWTOR was released in 2011 with the ability to poach all the good from other MMOs, instead they released the game missing key factors in the game which is inexcusable. They are the comfort items that make the early months bearable. We all know content will be at a premium early on and most people can forgive that unless you make them suffer through what little content there is with no LFG, no friendly UI adaptations, crap crafting etc. It was not a timing thing that is sinking SWTOR, it is their total inability to learn from other MMOs mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amyas Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 It wasn't timing it is just a half you know what MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedDjinn Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Not luck. Bad design decisions. Bioware focused on ONE aspect of their game, making the class stories work in the context of an MMO. You don't have to play long to realize they gave little thought to anything else. It's functional. It supports the class stories and cinematic cut scenes. The game just isn't designed to be anything more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Hope to stay for a "long time", "give up" after 6 months. Somehow I question their initial resolve. I'm enjoying the game a lot, I can't wait to level my Chiss Sith Warrior in about 12 levels. I'm enjoying my Agent story a LOT, I'll be here for awhile, I'm not a quitter.Yes, players should continue playing $15 a month for a game they no longer play for the continued hope that BW will finally follow through on their promises that they made from the start, and have yet to deliver on Most people are smart enough not to get fooled multiple times. Edited May 21, 2012 by hulkweazel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adderdin Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 It failed, because of Bioware "Artistic Vision". It failed, because Bioware does not understand the difference between a good single player game and a massive multiplayer game. It failed because Bioware was as arrogant on SWTOR forums as they were on their social.bioware forums. It failed because Bioware prefferes twitter than their own forums when it comes to announcing information. It failed because Bioware is still in 2005, rather than 2012 with what goes for "basic". It failed because Bioware PR dpept cant handle pressure, from one side they failed with SWTOR and from the other their forums were full of people who did not like the ME3 ending. It failed, because you cant slap Star Wars ontop of a pile of poo and think people will buy it. It failed because they did not put as much work in getting the engine up to 2012 standards as they had put in giving voices to everyone and their dog. It failed because this Bioware is not the same as the one that made KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2, ME1, ME2, DA:O they changed for worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackholeskipper Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) It has nothing to do with bad luck. TOR had everything going for it to be successful. Huge budget, the Star Wars name, a well-known developer, a gigantic following. Most of the people I have talked to quit for the exact same reason - they cite empty promises, lack of content, lack of bug fixes, and world that feels "static" as why they are quitting. Most of them had hoped to stay for a long time but finally gave up on the game. I love when people try to convince others that a $15-a-month supposed MMO released 6 months earlier has more content then a just-released FTP online RPG. When you even have to make THAT argument, you know things are bad. "Regular new content" = once every three months? LOL. This! And the fact that there's nothing to look forward to, for me anyway. 1.3 is going to expand the legacy system? Well so what, the legacy system is pretty lame (and I say this as a person who likes to RP). Then there's server transfers and the LFG tool. But nothing that really expands on the game itself. Nothing new or exciting, just small fixes here and there. I'd rather spend my money elsewhere (which is what I'm doing anyway, currently playing Deus Ex and EVE Online). Besides, why is there so much to fix now? What about the initial development period, the bioware talent, and the huge budget? You can't charge money for an unfinished game. I'm a big fan of most bioware games but swtor is a huge disappointment. Edited May 21, 2012 by Blackholeskipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 SWTOR did not fail because of bad timing. It failed because of dishonesty and leaving people in the dark about what's going on.. And, well, maybe Bioware just listened to the wrong people. In other words: EA happened. /thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscibi Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 It seems to me that many of the watermarks of MMORPGs are on their way out as we transition into a new era. Basically, I would liken SWTOR to a game released at the end of a console's lifespan. The genre is moving in a direction of doing away with the monthly sub model, the traditional hotkey based combat, the strict class roles. I think SWTOR just got caught in a bad time. The game comes out with a lot of stuff that's about to be on its way out. It's not like back in 2007 they should have been out to reinvent the wheel. What had worked was working, and it didn't make sense to think to completely uproot everything that is an MMORPG. But by release that wasn't the case, obviously. I mean, at the end of the day, I unsubbed because I empathized with the sentiment that this game feels incomplete. I do feel like with the videos that came out in the 3 years before launch, our minds built up or were built up to an image of a 2012 Lamborghini, and when the game launched we realized it was a 1995 Ford Explorer. I also feel like they tried to release this game with a "Minecraft" production model- but without telling us. The game does feel like a paid alpha to me, and even a die hard follower (and CE owner) of this game like me can only buy into "It'll be complete and good, just keep paying us and wait" for so long. But I'm diverting topic. What do you think about the timing? The game has a lot of problems, I could go on forever. But what I think is that the big problem with SWTOR is that it was released too incomplete in a time where its format was about to become obsolete. It just doesn't have much going for it. Anyway I want to hear your thoughts.. Everything you said would be valid, if trollware werent discussing on how their next invention "the chocolate kettle" is going to be an amazing hit. They are useless. They Dont understand MMO's and what people expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klax Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 In other words: EA happened. /thread. Kinda like Sony happened to EQ, SWG, EQII, Vanguard, etc... The Irony is that some company will come out of left field and create an amazing concept and the "Big Boys" will commecialize it to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Kinda like Sony happened to EQ, SWG, EQII, Vanguard, etc... The Irony is that some company will come out of left field and create an amazing concept and the "Big Boys" will commecialize it to death. ^this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megaloz Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Bioware are complete noobs when it comes to MMOs - FACT EA are complete failures when they touch an MMO - FACT LA seems to let anything fly So what did we expect? Im so so disappointed in this game. For once, finally, id have an MMO where i can get all my RL buddies and family together, and play an MMO! And they did! But because this game lack soooooo many things, ive lost most of them and down to a couple guys now. Im borderline pissed off with these companies. How can they take such a huge IP, with such a huge budget, and with such a vast knowledge of all the MMOs out there that have failed and succeeded.............and yet FAIL SO BAD as they have?!?! Im speechless.... This has 0% fault with the timing, and 100% with the people who made this game, and how utterly poor their decision making was in creating this game. I swear if i had the power, i would fire so many of those morons in a heartbeat and bring in some people who have a clue to what their doing for a MMORPG game for 2012!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaonis Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 It has nothing to do with bad luck. TOR had everything going for it to be successful. Huge budget, the Star Wars name, a well-known developer, a gigantic following. Most of the people I have talked to quit for the exact same reason - they cite empty promises, lack of content, lack of bug fixes, and world that feels "static" as why they are quitting. Most of them had hoped to stay for a long time but finally gave up on the game. This right here is why the game is in decline. It has nothing to do with bad timing (other than releasing it before it should have been out) it has everything to do with the devs and their failures of making the game worthwhile. No bug fixes, gear stats being terrible for endgame, dead servers, and the list goes on with bad decisions. Honestly I think had they tried to make it like the way the OP described it, the game would have failed far harder than it presently is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) I blame the impatient players and their unrealistic expectations. Not to mention their woe-is-me doomer mentality and entitled attitudes. Edited May 21, 2012 by Holden_Dissent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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