Malanoth Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Not intentionally. But I just finished a Civil War warzone. I was one of two players that ran to 'snow' side. Everyone else zerged middle. The other guy with me capped 'snow' then ran to middle leaving me alone to defend. And thats how it played out. I 'defended' the area the whole match. Zero kills. Zero damage. Zero healing. Yes I was completing objectives and should be rewarded but it doesn't somehow feel right. No enemies came and we ended up losing. They had 3 healers we had none. Thats a position you cannot win from. Hell, I didn't even move entire match once positioned. I finished up with 6 medals from defender points, 76 coms, nearly 3k credits and over 2k Valor. All without pressing a single key in anger (or defense). Halfway through the match I was joined by 6 more team mates who thought I might be getting lonely and they all /sit near me to keep me company. Awwwww. And thats what is happening in PvP. Defender Point Grinders. They are a bad as Quitters. This is another nail in the coffin for SWTOR PvP. It is plain stupid to get that number of rewards for doing nothing. You know some matches I play as a healer or some I go on the skirmish and dont always get 6 medals. This is encouraging me to just cap 1 and camp the rest of the match for defender point medals. With the daft reward system, the TTK problem (which is huge), class imbalance, the insane number of knockbacks, mezzes and stuns that keep you from operating your character for far too long, the unfair class advantages some classes have in certain Warzones and the daft gear tiers, SWTOR PvP is the worst MMO PvP I have ever experienced. It needs some serious work. Edited May 13, 2012 by Malanoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartes Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 heh I feel ya. Sometimes I wonder why I even try to do something in CW when I get more medals/rewards just standing at empty objective. Usually I run to mid, kill something for fun, get killed then run on owned objective and get rewards. But it is only CW. Other WZs are not that easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krashnburn Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Not intentionally. But I just finished a Civil War warzone. I was one of two players that ran to 'snow' side. Everyone else zerged middle. The other guy with me capped 'snow' then ran to middle leaving me alone to defend. And thats how it played out. I 'defended' the area the whole match. Zero kills. Zero damage. Zero healing. Yes I was completing objectives and should be rewarded but it doesn't somehow feel right. . I have been in this exact situation many times. I used to stay to the bitter end defending even if we were losing. Now I wait until it is apparent we are going to lose if we don't take another turret and then do the equivalent of taking the goalie out in a hockey game and join the battle at one of the other nodes. I have actually been flamed in chat for doing this and leaving the node undefended. But it seems to me it is worth the risk to provide a chance for a turn around victory. Almost never works....but the other team almost never tries to cap that node anyway if they are too busy defending the two they have. And it's more fun for me. Edited May 13, 2012 by Krashnburn NUNYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrekxxx Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 evry cc prolongs combat, thats why it is no more fun ... if they remove stuns, combats would be quicker and more interesting ... imagine you wanna solo cap turrets, and u have to fight 2 mins ?? and they speak on ventrilo or chat come her help me?? i wanna run to cap, there is guy, kill him in 20-30 secs or he kills me, thats fun! once i killed solo 2 guys and on5% hp came third and killed me? i didnt have time to heal up or cup the turret! where is fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackadda Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) I have been in this exact situation many times. I used to stay to the bitter end defending even if we were losing. Now I wait until it is apparent we are going to lose if we don't take another turret and then do the equivalent of taking the goalie out in a hockey game and join the battle at one of the other nodes. I have actually been flamed in chat for doing this and leaving the node undefended. But it seems to me it is worth the risk to provide a chance for a turn around victory. Almost never works....but the other team almost never tries to cap that node anyway if they are too busy defending the two they have. And it's more fun for me. There is a reason why the best special forces units in the world all use the motto "Who Dares Wins".. Edited May 13, 2012 by blackadda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ehlin Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 evry cc prolongs combat, thats why it is no more fun ... if they remove stuns, combats would be quicker and more interesting ... imagine you wanna solo cap turrets, and u have to fight 2 mins ?? and they speak on ventrilo or chat come her help me?? i wanna run to cap, there is guy, kill him in 20-30 secs or he kills me, thats fun! once i killed solo 2 guys and on5% hp came third and killed me? i didnt have time to heal up or cup the turret! where is fun? So... your complaining that they got help to defend their turret before you could cap it? Like they should be doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wubsie Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 evry cc prolongs combat, thats why it is no more fun ... if they remove stuns, combats would be quicker and more interesting ... imagine you wanna solo cap turrets, and u have to fight 2 mins ?? and they speak on ventrilo or chat come her help me?? i wanna run to cap, there is guy, kill him in 20-30 secs or he kills me, thats fun! once i killed solo 2 guys and on5% hp came third and killed me? i didnt have time to heal up or cup the turret! where is fun? Show me a 1v1 that lasts 30 seconds that isn't two tanks, two healers, or a tank vs. a healer and I'll promise to fix the TTK shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ehlin Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) I think people that do defend should be rewarded well, even if no one ever comes to take their turret and they just stand there the entire match. In most warzones I get more than 6 medals, so me just standing there would result in less PVP progression for me. Not something I particularly want, but if I'm needed to defend then I'll do it. Obviously you run the risk of too many people just sitting there instead of helping, but there is always going to be a risk of that no matter what. Also isn't that kick feature in the game? Just do that. Edited May 13, 2012 by Ehlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Interesting. I don't know how you pub wzs can handle the current system, other than huttball (if you actually kill the ball carrier), the teams I beat, the losing teams, never have a player with 8 medals, and average around 4-5. It seems guarding a turret is way more effective than the struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vales Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Not intentionally. But I just finished a Civil War warzone. I was one of two players that ran to 'snow' side. Everyone else zerged middle. The other guy with me capped 'snow' then ran to middle leaving me alone to defend. And thats how it played out. I 'defended' the area the whole match. Zero kills. Zero damage. Zero healing. Yes I was completing objectives and should be rewarded but it doesn't somehow feel right. No enemies came and we ended up losing. They had 3 healers we had none. Thats a position you cannot win from. Hell, I didn't even move entire match once positioned. I finished up with 6 medals from defender points, 76 coms, nearly 3k credits and over 2k Valor. All without pressing a single key in anger (or defense). Halfway through the match I was joined by 6 more team mates who thought I might be getting lonely and they all /sit near me to keep me company. Awwwww. And thats what is happening in PvP. Defender Point Grinders. They are a bad as Quitters. This is another nail in the coffin for SWTOR PvP. It is plain stupid to get that number of rewards for doing nothing. You know some matches I play as a healer or some I go on the skirmish and dont always get 6 medals. This is encouraging me to just cap 1 and camp the rest of the match for defender point medals. With the daft reward system, the TTK problem (which is huge), class imbalance, the insane number of knockbacks, mezzes and stuns that keep you from operating your character for far too long, the unfair class advantages some classes have in certain Warzones and the daft gear tiers, SWTOR PvP is the worst MMO PvP I have ever experienced. It needs some serious work. Um normally when I have to do this job I usually earn less medals than the others so be glad even though you did an important albeit boring job you at least got something and you or anyone else could predict that the enemy never tries to even sneak cap your turret. The medal reward is fine, it is very important to not give the enemy an easy cap. I literally lost games because I trusted someone to do it and when I arrived at mid 5 seconds later I saw my turret capped because the other guy was so "smart" to go to mid as well... And if you think this game has a lot of CC try WoW. You will come back here and be relieved that this game has relativvely few CC here. Edited May 13, 2012 by Vales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tynt Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 lol this is a troll thread?? Didn't we just ask BW to make rewards better for people who actually play the objectives? You played the objectives ... if playing the objective wasn't fun (which someitmes it isn't) than find someone else to guard the node. You should not be punished for guarding the node.... I seriously think you just posted to troll but if not you are not the most intelligent person I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odahviin Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 /agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epicdude Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Not intentionally. But I just finished a Civil War warzone. I was one of two players that ran to 'snow' side. Everyone else zerged middle. The other guy with me capped 'snow' then ran to middle leaving me alone to defend. And thats how it played out. I 'defended' the area the whole match. Zero kills. Zero damage. Zero healing. Yes I was completing objectives and should be rewarded but it doesn't somehow feel right. No enemies came and we ended up losing. They had 3 healers we had none. Thats a position you cannot win from. Hell, I didn't even move entire match once positioned. I finished up with 6 medals from defender points, 76 coms, nearly 3k credits and over 2k Valor. All without pressing a single key in anger (or defense). Halfway through the match I was joined by 6 more team mates who thought I might be getting lonely and they all /sit near me to keep me company. Awwwww. And thats what is happening in PvP. Defender Point Grinders. They are a bad as Quitters. This is another nail in the coffin for SWTOR PvP. It is plain stupid to get that number of rewards for doing nothing. You know some matches I play as a healer or some I go on the skirmish and dont always get 6 medals. This is encouraging me to just cap 1 and camp the rest of the match for defender point medals. With the daft reward system, the TTK problem (which is huge), class imbalance, the insane number of knockbacks, mezzes and stuns that keep you from operating your character for far too long, the unfair class advantages some classes have in certain Warzones and the daft gear tiers, SWTOR PvP is the worst MMO PvP I have ever experienced. It needs some serious work. IMO I think you should get defender points if your actually defending the place from people. So basicly no one comes the lace you don't get points if your the and you fight off people you get the points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkipBickerstaff Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 This thread looks to me like people qqing about losing wzs, not actual problems with pvp or the system itself. I'm not calling myself an expert by any means, but maybe if you're only getting 4-6 medals in any match, either you're playing against a dominating premade or you suck at pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svartalfimposter Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) This thread looks to me like people qqing about losing wzs, Bingo! I agree with this person. It seems that we're just upset that matchmaking is taking so long to get implemented. I'm sure it's a difficult task and needs a lot of work and bug squishing, so it's hard to hammer the devs because of that, but the problem of massive whitewashes persists in the meantime. Edited May 13, 2012 by svartalfimposter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryptikX Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Its a lot better than before the rewards adjustment when the sad person defending the node got next to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatthefett Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I usually switch up. If I cap one game I go into the Zerg the next. That way I get to do a little bit of everything. The medals are the medals. I don't get any medals for predation or stunning a mob of five opponents when they try to get my ball carrier, so the rare times I cap and don't get attacked by two stealth are a nice break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zocat Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I have been in this exact situation many times. I used to stay to the bitter end defending even if we were losing. Now I wait until it is apparent we are going to lose if we don't take another turret and then do the equivalent of taking the goalie out in a hockey game and join the battle at one of the other nodes. I have actually been flamed in chat for doing this and leaving the node undefended. But it seems to me it is worth the risk to provide a chance for a turn around victory. Almost never works....but the other team almost never tries to cap that node anyway if they are too busy defending the two they have. And it's more fun for me. As long as you announce it in chat I personally have no problem with that behaviour. Because if you do manage to cap a 2nd node your dead teammates know that the other is undefended and can immediately spawn there. Also - everyone who disagrees with that strategy is free to defend that node himself Bit more on topic: The problem with CW is the moment when your team needs a 3 cap to win. It should just end when that is the case, because a team which had trouble even capping a 2nd node will definitely NOT be able to 3 nodes (and no I dont care about your 1 in a 1000 games where it did happen). To counterbalance the "lets all defend then" guys they should up the attacking rewards. Fighting OVER a point should be rewarded as well. Not only capping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 If the server population was good and teams were well balanced or at least rotated between queues to keep things lively it wouldn't be such a boring warzone to begin with. It's not a rewards issue, it's that PVP right now is so heavily lopsided. There's no population during times of the day on our server so literally the enemy can get away with double 4 man queues getting into a match (only way to fill out their group). So it becomes 6v8 where I've got all pugs and they've got double premade... Anyway. The rewards aren't the issue TBH and they shouldn't mess with it until they fix PVP at a much more fundamental level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svartalfimposter Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Fighting OVER a point should be rewarded as well. Not only capping it. I endorse this message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krashnburn Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 As long as you announce it in chat I personally have no problem with that behaviour. Because if you do manage to cap a 2nd node your dead teammates know that the other is undefended and can immediately spawn there. Also - everyone who disagrees with that strategy is free to defend that node himself Bit more on topic: The problem with CW is the moment when your team needs a 3 cap to win. It should just end when that is the case, because a team which had trouble even capping a 2nd node will definitely NOT be able to 3 nodes (and no I dont care about your 1 in a 1000 games where it did happen). To counterbalance the "lets all defend then" guys they should up the attacking rewards. Fighting OVER a point should be rewarded as well. Not only capping it. Yes, I always try to let the team know I am leaving the point in chat. I have left a time or two AFTER another player showed up to defend and then they left without calling it and the blame fell to me...but oh well. Miscommunication causes many problems in life and games. LOL I would sign onto the CW ending early suggestion when there is no hope of winning. My problem is when someone in ops chat before the match even begins suggests we all cap snow and camp it for D medals because the pre-made we are about to face is unbeatable anyway. It's then I know we probably don't have a chance because this guy is quitting before we even start and encouraging everyone else to do same. Yeah, that really happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 You cannot force people to participate. Defending should be rewarded. If you remove defender point people will just exploit something else. The real problem with PvP is reward systems. Dispense with gear, put everyone on a level playing field, and let skill decide matches. True hardcore PvPers don't need "rewards" to PvP.; the thrill of victory is its own reward. If you give them non-combat rewards (pets, mounts, titles, gear that looks different, etc.) they will be happy. True hardcore PvPers participate because they enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostuka Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 It is not "Without doing anything" you defended the place. You did not fight, but staying at the node is defending and playing to the objective. If the reward for that was dropped, who would stay at the turret? No one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnoblesse Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 where is fun? Somebody set up us the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-Serp Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 That's why Alderaan CW is the worst map of the bunch, and NC is only slightly better. They are badly designed maps. Be thankful you at least got the defensive medals. At least a third of the time it bugs up and won't give you objective points. Leaving the node undefended isn't a big deal especially when you're down a lot and it's unlikely that you'll make a comeback. You should pull the goalie there, but actually since nobody can be sure you don't have a stealther defending anybody trying to attack the node has to be careful. This is also another reason why defenders should generally be tanksins. If your team is badly losing somebody will likely die anyway, and if they do they should be taking the side speeder to the undefended node. Unless they are stupid, which is likely, and that is where they will yell and ***** that nobody is defending. But chances are they are too stupid to know who was defending that spot anyway, so they won't know it was you. My guild before it died had several guardians who would always handle defending nodes. I'd always throw them MVP votes and generally encourage everyone to vote them MVPs. We also had a lot of healers and PUGs would always vote our healers or top DPS, so I felt it important to take care of our guards. But my guild died anyway so whatever I guess. I personally don't think any map should be designed so that you need guards. It's a waste to have them and I don't think most people enjoy the role, they just put up with it for the good of the team/guild. Huttball does not need guards and you will always pretty much get some action or improve position actively. Voidstar usually teams don't just focus down one door, so while you might get some downtime at the other door it actually is beneficial since it lets you heal up, but you'll definitely get people coming by occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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