Olympic Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 PvP is competition? LOL. MMO isn't built for competition. It is what nerds do or pretend to have because in reality they cannot compete in sports or anything else. I couldn't care less if this game has expertise or not. It has no effect on me. But I can definitely see why it is needed in order for Bioware to make money. I can definitely see why this game has it or else it will fail. Yes PvP is competitive. MMO's CAN be built for a competitive PvP environment, but expertise driven gear sets, grind for gear concepts, and War Zones are not the path to get there. They are little E-sport grind areas that a certain segment of MMO gamer has been trained to accept as "PvP". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) You do know that City Of Heroes PvP sucks, right? It does now, it used to be good before they busted it because they were catering to noobs that can't stand targets they attack are able to super speed or fly away, which you can't anymore. Edited May 11, 2012 by Sookster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsomazzi Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Expertise isn't the problem. The real problem is TOR is a terrible endgame, game. And that's not something that will get fixed in a patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Yes PvP is competitive. MMO's CAN be built for a competitive PvP environment, but expertise driven gear sets, grind for gear concepts, and War Zones are not the path to get there. They are little E-sport grind areas that a certain segment of MMO gamer has been trained to accept as "PvP". Not going to happen in a sandbox themed and PvE game like SWTOR. Video game competitiveness is like that guy who went to a guitar hero contest and win. He thought he is a winner, cool and really skillful. He didn't know lots of people were just laughing at him. Look, I so want to be like them Edited May 11, 2012 by xxdragonragexx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Not going to happen in a sandbox themed and PvE game like SWTOR. Video game competitiveness is like that guy who went to a guitar hero contest and win. He thought he is a winner, cool and really skillful. He didn't know lots of people were just laughing at him. You actually think SWTOR is sandbox? Really???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 You actually think SWTOR is sandbox? Really???? I meant theme park. My mistake. Must be typing too fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I meant theme park. My mistake. Must be typing too fast. Hehe, no worries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EugeneYap Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The whole idea of Expertise to is hold balance between pve and pvp, but sadly a lot are crying OP about other class they hate, especially those who jump from pve to pvp without knowing the mechanics of pvp. If you want to know 1st hand what is like to pvp with out Expertise, look at D2's pvp in heavily unbalance due to lack of pvp's "stats" "diff game has diff naming". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I think removing expertise is fine but only if they remove PVE too. Which would be fine really. Ops in this game are the most pointless excuse for a raid scene I've seen in any game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) I think removing expertise is fine but only if they remove PVE too. Which would be fine really. Ops in this game are the most pointless excuse for a raid scene I've seen in any game. I agree take out the high end PVE crap out of PVP servers and lift most of the restrictions and make very few safe zones. Edited May 11, 2012 by Razot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodingo Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 You know if they removed expertise and you lose to someone who does pve all the time to get raid gear, then maybe you are the one who is bad. One way to look at it is, you suck at pvp. Another way is, maybe the guy who is wearing the raid gear, also pvps! *gasp*. So then guess what ?!? You were beat by someone who enjoys all aspects of the game. You can still have pvp gear without a crutch stat. No one is asking for pvp gear to go away. Just to remove the artificial skill stat. Blame BW for not making pvp gear equal to pve raid gear. And don't try to give me that crap that if pvp and pve gear were equal that all players would take the easiest/quickest route to gear up. If I knew I could get nice gear by just pve'ing that I could use for pvp, guess what? I would still pvp for that gear because that's what I love. Separating the population by pvp gear and pve gear is one of the factors that is hurting this game. It's why I cancelled along with many others. Sure some of you may say "good riddance", but we are the same people that will be saying "welcome" when you eventually join us in another game, other than this one due to BW's misunderstanding of what it takes to make a proper pvp game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justntrue Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 You know if they removed expertise and you lose to someone who does pve all the time to get raid gear, then maybe you are the one who is bad. One way to look at it is, you suck at pvp. Another way is, maybe the guy who is wearing the raid gear, also pvps! *gasp*. So then guess what ?!? You were beat by someone who enjoys all aspects of the game. You can still have pvp gear without a crutch stat. No one is asking for pvp gear to go away. Just to remove the artificial skill stat. Blame BW for not making pvp gear equal to pve raid gear. And don't try to give me that crap that if pvp and pve gear were equal that all players would take the easiest/quickest route to gear up. If I knew I could get nice gear by just pve'ing that I could use for pvp, guess what? I would still pvp for that gear because that's what I love. Separating the population by pvp gear and pve gear is one of the factors that is hurting this game. It's why I cancelled along with many others. Sure some of you may say "good riddance", but we are the same people that will be saying "welcome" when you eventually join us in another game, other than this one due to BW's misunderstanding of what it takes to make a proper pvp game. yar. expertise is the crutch for baddies who can't beat fresh 50's without it. Removing all expertise is an equalized field. Just need some way to get reasonable gear for PVPers.... how about tokens? The PVP bads are epic QQers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EugeneYap Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 yar. expertise is the crutch for baddies who can't beat fresh 50's without it. Removing all expertise is an equalized field. Just need some way to get reasonable gear for PVPers.... how about tokens? The PVP bads are epic QQers. You say it man!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Rammstein Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 yeah, but if they got rid of expertise then you would have to raid to get the best gear...and if you say "oh well they can make a pvp equivalent to the raiding gear" than the pve people will complain how it's easier to just pvp for the same gear. In a perfect mmo there wouldn't even be gear for the pvp, everyone starts the match equal and skill determines the outcome not who has the most augmented war hero pieces.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malstrades Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 EXPERTISE NEEDS TO GO! its a useless retarded stat. I'm a PVE-er and couldnt give a crap about PVP gear being equal to PVE gear. It really doesnt matter. expertise is just some designers idiotic WOW idea that serves no function but to distance one part of the MMO from another while there is no reason to. WE PLAY THE FRICKING GAME BECAUSE WE LIKE THE WHOLE GAME NOT 1/10 OF IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) You know if they removed expertise and you lose to someone who does pve all the time to get raid gear, then maybe you are the one who is bad. One way to look at it is, you suck at pvp. Another way is, maybe the guy who is wearing the raid gear, also pvps! *gasp*. So then guess what ?!? You were beat by someone who enjoys all aspects of the game. You can still have pvp gear without a crutch stat. No one is asking for pvp gear to go away. Just to remove the artificial skill stat. Blame BW for not making pvp gear equal to pve raid gear. And don't try to give me that crap that if pvp and pve gear were equal that all players would take the easiest/quickest route to gear up. If I knew I could get nice gear by just pve'ing that I could use for pvp, guess what? I would still pvp for that gear because that's what I love. Separating the population by pvp gear and pve gear is one of the factors that is hurting this game. It's why I cancelled along with many others. Sure some of you may say "good riddance", but we are the same people that will be saying "welcome" when you eventually join us in another game, other than this one due to BW's misunderstanding of what it takes to make a proper pvp game. Ignorance is bliss i guess Pve gear based pvp is worse than expertise based pvp That's why we have expertise So many other posters have stated this and you still don't get it It's to stop pvpers using it to raid and to stop Raiders using pve gear in pvp It has nothing to do with skill and is all about balance Edited May 11, 2012 by denpic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EugeneYap Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Ignorance is bliss i guess Pve gear based pvp is worse than expertise based pvp That's why we have expertise So many other posters have stated this and you still don't get it It's to stop pvpers using it to raid and to stop Raiders using pve gear in pvp It has nothing to do with skill and is all about balance I think that is what we have been trying to explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwakkwak Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Expt is a needed stat. otherwise progression in terms of pvp would 100% rely on pve content. thats lame. pvp gear should come from pvp and pve from pve. now i do feel it needs to be rebalanced a bit, but i do like that it isnt just defensive. it creates a gap in stats that all the pve gear in the world cant catch up to. without it the only true way to balance the game is to create a system where everyone regardless of progression get a flat rate of stats in WZs. then you'd be complaining that sorc's have to much HP or juggs have to much armor blah blah blah. RPG/MMO's are about progression of level, content and yes GEAR. so if i was forced to raid for the best gear for pvp how would that make sense? also assuming you did 0 pvping at low levels you can grind a full set of BM gear in an afternoon NP. buy the rec gear and play a spec that isnt built for 1v1 combat and play the objectives, help your team win. once you have BM move on to a more aggressive spec and go nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digtahk Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Expertise is the only thing saving fresh 50s from getting totally destroyed in PVP.....If you are too stupid to see that I will give you some simple numbers. In my PVE gear I have 20K hps a fresh 50 will have on average 12-13K even if all our other stats were equal (which they blatantly are not) I would still have 7K hps minimum by the time i killed you (realistically I would be 50-60% better than you stats wise). In pvp WH and BM gear I have closer to 16K hps which if you buy the recruit set would mean a less than 20% difference in stats, yes it means I will still beat you but the solution is not to remove the only stat that forces me to wear the poorly optimised and lower stat gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Disclaimer: Didnt read most of the posts here, but still figured would throw out my 2 cents. I personally hate expertise, it turns pvp into a game of who can grind the most, not who plays the best. You could be the most skilled player in the world and it wouldnt mean jack when some nub living in his parents basement walks up to you in a ton of expertise gear. No matter how good you are, you WILL DIE. PvP should be based on skill, not some random stat. I have still done it, because thats all we got (more than half WH at this point). But I dont like it. I hate having to grind just to get that one random stat up so I can be competitive and the game be balanced. I HATE starting a new toon to pvp because I know that no matter how good I am, I am gonna be getting my face splattered all over the pavement for a LONG LONG time, irregardless of how well I play my class. Throwing in a random stat that MASSIVELY affects all gameplay and is based on grinding, not skill, is not balanced. And frankly, if a PvE raider is a damn good player and more skilled than me, he SHOULD be able to stand a chance against me. But because of expertise, he doesnt. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufasach Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Did you know that expertise tops out at different levels for different classes, so some classes automatically have an expertise advantage over others just by their very existence. Go look at the warhero sets for each class and do the math.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodingo Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Ignorance is bliss i guess Pve gear based pvp is worse than expertise based pvp That's why we have expertise So many other posters have stated this and you still don't get it It's to stop pvpers using it to raid and to stop Raiders using pve gear in pvp It has nothing to do with skill and is all about balance I think you are the one who doesn't get it, but no biggie. We know it's to stop Raiders from using pvp gear and vice versa. The question is, why do they need to be stopped if they put in a mechanic for you to get equivalent gear as a pvp'er? Instead of having pvp and pve gear, why not just have "gear"? I didn't buy "SWTOR: PVP version" and pve'ers didn't buy "SWTOR:PVE version". We bought just SWTOR which means we want to enjoy ALL aspects of the game. Like I and many others have already stated, separating the already declining population by two is not healthy for this game. Some people like both pve and pvp and also happen to be good at both. But since this game gates people into one or the other, then paying full price for only half of a game is ludicrous. Maybe full sub price for a half-baked pvp game is for you, but there are a lot of us that expect more. Does this make sense to you now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 this is a case of l2p. Learn to paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tfranco Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I think you are the one who doesn't get it, but no biggie. We know it's to stop Raiders from using pvp gear and vice versa. The question is, why do they need to be stopped if they put in a mechanic for you to get equivalent gear as a pvp'er? Instead of having pvp and pve gear, why not just have "gear"? I didn't buy "SWTOR: PVP version" and pve'ers didn't buy "SWTOR:PVE version". We bought just SWTOR which means we want to enjoy ALL aspects of the game. Like I and many others have already stated, separating the already declining population by two is not healthy for this game. Some people like both pve and pvp and also happen to be good at both. But since this game gates people into one or the other, then paying full price for only half of a game is ludicrous. Maybe full sub price for a half-baked pvp game is for you, but there are a lot of us that expect more. Does this make sense to you now? You wana PvP? Ok go buy recruit set and ull have 800+ expertise. That's enough to negate any major advantages a full bm or war hero gear.....maybe not war hero but still. I am like u, I enjoy PvE and PvP. Both are fun and entertaining. And you know what? I have TWO gear sets. Neither were hard to get, spammed hm bt and foundry for PvE and spammed wzs for PvP gear. You'll have to deal with the fact you will no longer be the op version of ur self from 1-49 we all went through it. Expertise is vital for balance, and in world PvP where the is no equalizer buff it makes a match. Quit ur bichin and sink some Creds or leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinguesDew Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I only play to PvP. But I'm not some weakling that got owned in WoW and was perma-scarred for life about it. We schooled every guild short of Naxx guilds (vanilla) in our blue PvP sets with a couple WL/HWL mixed in (not many cuz they always quit after hitting whatever rank they were going for). That doesn't mean it wasn't a problem, we essentially played with a massive handicap. On top of which the only thing that allowed us to overcome said handicap was proper CC usage due to it lasting forever. Sure it was often more satisfying but despite "walking two miles in the snow to PvP" myself, I don't wish that same harrowing experience on others, because it can be better. I love how in your mind those satisfied with the status quo are the whiny weaklings and those complaining about it are not... you need to take your own advice and L2P with the system you are given, which by the way is what "L2P" means. L2P definitely does not mean piss and moan on the forums until they change the game for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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