Can someone please answer this - Regarding Bioware & Ranked WZs

[Majestic_Jazz]

Okay, so Ranked Warzones was supposed to be part of the big 1.2 patch. However, Bioware LISTENED to community feedback [through the 1.2 PTS] regarding Ranked WZs and how broken it was and so on. So Bioware LISTENED and decided that they did not want to release crap, so they took it out so they can refine and and better it and release it at a later date.

 

So while we did not get Ranked WZs in 1.2 when we were lead to believe so, at least we will get it later on with a bigger and better version.

 

So my question is this.....why is it that some people bash Bioware for taking out Ranked Warzones in 1.2? It isn't like they trolled us and pressed the "SIKE!" button at the last minute. Considering what they got from player feedback, they decided that 1.2 was not the best time to release ranked warzones and that they need to further work on it and release it at a later time, sometime this year probably. However, people still bash Bioware!?!!? I mean one common theme that I hear is how Bioware did not listen to the beta testers or ignored them and this is why SWTOR had a "bad" launch, because they failed to listen to their testers. So finally Bioware DOES LISTEN to their testers and they catch flack for it!?!?!? Damn if you do and damn if you don't I guess.

 

Now dig this, if Bioware released ranked warzones in it's broken state in 1.2, the same people who are bashing Bioware for taking it out of 1.2 would be bashing Bioware for releasing a broken feature/mode and would go on talking about how Bioware should have foreseen this and how BIoware needs to fix Ranked WZs or else the PvP community will "leave in droves". But wait! Bioware did not release Ranked Warzones in it's broken state! Instead, they want to refine it more so that when they do release it, there shouldn't be any problems. So guess what, does the community applaud Bioware for listening to their testers? No!, instead, people want to bash Bioware for taking it out!

 

So yeah, can someone please answer this?

[Majestic_Jazz]

delete Edited May 9, 2012 by Majestic_Jazz

[Sokee]

I think the biggest thing with ranked wz's atm with the pvp community is how mum BW is on the whole situation.

 

We have no clue why it was taken out.

We have no clue when to expect to see them "Coming Soon".

MUM is the word when it comes to RW.

[Majestic_Jazz]

I think the biggest thing with ranked wz's atm with the pvp community is how mum BW is on the whole situation.

 

We have no clue why it was taken out.

We have no clue when to expect to see them "Coming Soon".

MUM is the word when it comes to RW.

 

#1 I think Bioware already explained why it was taken out at around the day before 1.2 released. I will look up the link for you.

 

#2 I don't want a "Coming Soon" because that would only cause more problems. If Bioware said that they want Ranked Warzones back in at around....June but come June and it still isnt ready so they delay to August/September, people would complain. It is better to just.....announce/release it when it is ready.

 

Again, people, Bioware said that they are taking it out to work on it more. Not taking it out and never put it back in.

[Darthshnooky]

#1 I think Bioware already explained why it was taken out at around the day before 1.2 released. I will look up the link for you.

 

#2 I don't want a "Coming Soon" because that would only cause more problems. If Bioware said that they want Ranked Warzones back in at around....June but come June and it still isnt ready so they delay to August/September, people would complain. It is better to just.....announce/release it when it is ready.

 

Again, people, Bioware said that they are taking it out to work on it more. Not taking it out and never put it back in.

 

They announced the removal of Ranked WZs from 1.2 the day before it went live. That's what upset so many people. A lot more people would've accepted the whole thing if communication from the devs on PTS had been stronger; perhaps some kind of hint that they were considering pulling it from 1.2. There was also bad blood between pvp community and BW due to the lack of general transfer or premades -- which made level 50 pvp testing on the PTS minimal at best.

 

People like to know they are being dealt with fairly and openly. Lack of communication on PTS forums made people unhappy... the one-day "no Ranked" announcement angered these unhappy people, and pushed others into the "unhappy" sorta mode. Since then, the utter radio silence has been quite disheartening. We don't need daily updates... but even something to let us know it is still in the works regularly, and if they are still on goal to have it in game before 1.3.

 

There are also other issues that have pvpers in general upset. Things like the poor performance and removal of Ilum, feelings of promises made pre-launch that were not fulfilled, and the fact that in 6 months we've already had two major changes to how pvp gear is acquired in game. On top of all this, many people feel the nerfs and changes to pvp in 1.2 were too extensive and too dramatic -- that they should have been fewer or more carefully implemented over time to gauge performance, rather than the massive dump of changes into the game in a single patch. All of this makes pvpers already on edge... so it takes very little to light the powder keg, so to speak.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Darthshnooky

[NyteSabre]

Allow people to queue 8 man WZ's and BW can take all the time in the world with RW. I think this is main issue people have about the delay.

 

BW should have allowed full group queuing from day one and developed a robust matching system, that would match where possible, premades with premades and PuG's with PuG's. This should have been a very standard feature of a next generation MMO.

 

Instead we are waiting patch after patch. To keep themselves busy, people have gone through most of the game content in the meantime, and now they are just sitting and waiting, and waiting, and waiting some more.

Edited May 10, 2012 by NyteSabre

[Majestic_Jazz]

150+ Views and yet nobody has really answered my question.

 

Had Bioware released Ranked Warzones in it's current state and it turned out to be a disaster, people would be flaming Bioware for not listening to the community and how they continue to release broken content. So instead of allowing that to happen, they LISTENED to the community and decided to hold off on releasing Ranked Warzones. Yes, it was the day before 1.2 released but that isn't the point as it doesn't matter. This decision was probably a last minute decision that they thought long and hard about which is why it was probably at the last minute instead of....a week before 1.2. Also this nonsense about BW should have at least given the community a hint that Ranked WZs might get the axe is just stupid and borderline "self-entitled".

 

Again, Bioware can't win either way I guess. They don't listen and release broken content, they get hammered for not listening and continuing to release broken content. They do listen and hold off on content to polish/refine/rebuild it because they listened to the community and they get hammered.

[ShadowOfVey]

Well in the case of rated WZs, they didn't listen. They had weeks prior with people saying "Um, we need to transfer 50s over/be given 50s so we can test it". BW didn't feel that it needed to be tested enough to actually make it possible to test it, other than saying "If you want to test it, then grind up to level 50 on this test server".

 

That's on them.

 

 

It's like me hiring someone to clean up a big pile of dog crap in the driveway with a months notice.

 

The person I hire acknowledges the dog crap is there and I offer them a shovel.

 

They say "Nah it's okay, don't need the shovel" then they go home, drink, and play video games.

 

Then we repeat this for the next month.

 

Then when it's time for the dog crap in the driveway to be gone, they say "Sorry, the driveway is not clean yet. I'll keep working on it though." Then they go back home and drink some more.

Edited May 10, 2012 by ShadowOfVey

[Majestic_Jazz]

Well in the case of rated WZs, they didn't listen. They had weeks prior with people saying "Um, we need to transfer 50s over/be given 50s so we can test it". BW didn't feel that it needed to be tested enough to actually make it possible to test it, other than saying "If you want to test it, then grind up to level 50 on this test server".

 

That's on them.

 

 

It's like me hiring someone to clean up a big pile of dog crap in the driveway with a months notice.

 

The person I hire acknowledges the dog crap is there and I offer them a shovel.

 

They say "Nah it's okay, don't need the shovel" then they go home, drink, and play video games.

 

Then we repeat this for the next month.

 

Then when it's time for the dog crap in the driveway to be gone, they say "Sorry, the driveway is not clean yet. I'll keep working on it though." Then they go back home and drink some more.

 

Okay, I'll give you that, but I still don't see how something like that can cause all this hate towards Bioware.

 

In the end, the people who did get to 50 to play the Ranked Warzones obviously did not have anything nice to say about it otherwise Ranked Warzones would have been released. So to those who did get a chance to test them, they gave their feedback and Bioware listened.

 

Yet Bioware is still deemed to be the badguy.

 

Again, it just seems that no matter what, people just want to blame Bioware out of spite.

[NyteSabre]

To answer question simply, poor delivery or non delivery of a product should not be the only 2 choices to a customer. We had an expectation, it has not come through.

 

Are the reasons resonable for it not coming through? To be honest I have no idea. I would pvp more than 95% of people, however I never saw how it played on the PTR, I have no idea what the feedback was, so I have no idea if it was great or not, and I haven't seen anyone mention what the issues actually were (outside of 50's being unable to properly test it). I sort of get the feeling that the OP doesn't know what the exact issues were either, since nothing specific has been mentioned throughout this thread to my knowledge. Please let me know if im incorrect in this.

 

So as a result, there is a delay, and the vast majority have no idea why. Feel free to provide a list of problems the PTR community had with RW's.

Edited May 10, 2012 by NyteSabre

[Bluetickone]

lol ranked WZs with pvp as it is would be a totaly *********** disaster. BW needs to fix the dps zerg race first, then do ranked. They are way ahead of themselves with ranked and nowhere near ready.

[KrustyDog]

I think the biggest thing with ranked wz's atm with the pvp community is how mum BW is on the whole situation.

 

We have no clue why it was taken out.

We have no clue when to expect to see them "Coming Soon".

MUM is the word when it comes to RW.

 

When it comes to dev's communicating with their player base silence is not golden. Can anyone honestly tell me what their plans are? Anyone? Obviously their original vision for the game has changed and it would just be nice to know what their plans are? Can they improve fps in larger battles? Are they even trying? Thats why I will no longer keep pumping my money into this game. I have no idea what the plans for this game are anymore and I will not invest my time money in people who will not even tell me what my money is being used for.

[KrustyDog]

#1 I think Bioware already explained why it was taken out at around the day before 1.2 released. I will look up the link for you.

 

#2 I don't want a "Coming Soon" because that would only cause more problems. If Bioware said that they want Ranked Warzones back in at around....June but come June and it still isnt ready so they delay to August/September, people would complain. It is better to just.....announce/release it when it is ready.

 

Again, people, Bioware said that they are taking it out to work on it more. Not taking it out and never put it back in.

 

OK. So I go bid on a job. They say they want it by so and so a date. If I cant deliver by that date guess what? Welcome to real life. Expecting someone to give an eta on job completion is not an unreasonable thing. I honestly dont think they can fix the game at this point because of 3 things- 1) the game engine is seriously flawed and 2) at this point lore is out the window. Warzones with Jedi vs. Jedi? Its not the Star Wars I know and love 3) too many other really good games coming out soon and once the sub numbers are released to stockholders they will start pulling devs. If they cant fix this with a full staff they dont stand a chance once that happens.

 

Side note-if I bid a job and dont get it done on time I dont get to charge them more money by telling them I have no idea how long it will take. Good luck selling that one.

Edited May 10, 2012 by KrustyDog

[nallard]

The OP obviously wants to paint BW in the best light on this issue. It's clear in the way he keeps capitalizing LISTENING. But BW hasn't been LISTENING.

 

They didn't listen to pvpers who applied to test but were never copied over. They didn't listen to people who wanted to make premades to test the PvP content. They didn't listen when we asked for an explanation of the reasons for the delay. They didn't listen to the few pvpers who were able to give feedback from the pts. They haven't listened at all.

 

Or at least I assume they haven't listened because they have never responded. There are no dev posts, no blogs, and no answers in the Q&A about anything related to PvP. Occasionally we get some vague gesture, but nothing substantive.

 

Of course nobody wanted broken ranked war zones, but it's been nearly 5 months since release and there are still fundamental problems with PvP. BW touts their experienced and dedicated PvP team, but so far we've seen one baffling misstep after another. We shouldn't still have bugs like the people missing from the ops frames, or stealth capping in voidstar. We shouldn't be missing features like the automatic reforming of a group after a war zone. They should be cracking down on hackers or at least make it abundantly clear that they are making concrete progress on that issue.

 

The lack of ranked war zones was a disappointment, but it what made it worse was that it was yet another mistake and yet another poorly handled problem in a growing list.

[Fafryd]

The podcast suggests that you can't test Ranked WZ unless it is via Test. It is not on Test and therefore feels like it is many, many weeks away. And it shouldn't be.

[KrustyDog]

Oh my gosh I forgot to list what I think is the worst thing about the game-making it client side instead of server side. Did bio have so much faith in the gaming community they didnt think people were going to cheat? Ginormous lol at that one.

[Veniras]

They mention the reason for taking it out in the podcast.

[Majestic_Jazz]

Lol wow! Honestly, I am getting the feeling that Bioware has irked people to death over many issues/situations to the point that no matter what Bioware does, they will always have something negative to say. Like I said in my OP, damned if they do and damned if they don't, either way, Bioware always loses.

 

Why is this? I don't know, maybe it is because people are impatient and they want everything at their demands or maybe it is self-entilement "I pay a monthly sub so I demand to know anything and EVERYTHING regarding development, testing, and patches" who knows.

 

Am I painting Bioware as the victoms? Not my intent because Bioware has had their fair share problems and times where they DIDNT LISTEN or times where they felt like they were above the consumers and never want to admit failure even when it was clear [i bring up the ME3 ending for example].

 

When it is all said and done, people just need to be patient and stop acting like a 4-year old who isn't getting his/her way in a candy/toy store. Why isn't Bioware communicating on what is going on with Ranked Warzones? Well because it is possible that they really don't know the direction of Ranked Warzones! Maybe they are starting from ground zero, from scratch and rebuilding Ranked Warzones to the point where it will be 10x bigger and better than what we were supposed to get in 1.2. Maybe they have 10 different ideas/directions that they want to take this but they can't pinpoint just 1 yet so they are remaining quiet until they are 100% certain.

 

One thing I have learned from videogame development and the communities involvement is that whenever Developers go out and tell the community exactly what is going on or give bullet points about what is going on things are fine and the community loves them. HOWEVER, when things go array and the developers aren't able to deliever on said "promises" then that is when the community throws a temper tandrum like a 4-year old in a super market when the parent says "NO candy!". Believe me, I was one of those gamers who would bash a developer for not implementing a feature/concept after they "promised" they would. But that was when I was much younger in my teens and I had a "World revolves around me" attitude. Now in my late 20s, I have matured and view the world much differently.

 

The fact of the matter is, Bioware told us that they aren't bringing Ranked Warzones in 1.2. Was it at the last minute? Yes! Where they vague in their reasons why? Yes! But they told us and quite frankly, thats all we needed to know. I don't understand why people act like Bioware must inform us on every detail regarding the development because honesty, things are always in motion. Today they might have this bright idea but by the end of next week, they might scrap that idea for something else. So should Bioware keep us informed on all these micro details? That depends on you but all that matters is that from time to time they keep us informed. When I mean by that, I mean that Bioware should from time to time reasure us that development/refinement of Ranked Warzones is still ongoing and the process is getting better and that more details are coming soon. THAT is all I need! However for many people, that isn't enough!

 

Hell, no matter what I say, there will be more people coming in and defending why they bash Bioware for considering tester feedback.

 

Again, Damned if you do and Damned if you don't. Bioware loses either way.

[NyteSabre]

When it is all said and done, people just need to be patient and stop acting like a 4-year old who isn't getting his/her way in a candy/toy store.

 

So we should just blindly hand over our money? Why does an unsatisfied customer who was not delivered a product that was promised = "a 4-year old who isn't getting his/her way in a candy/toy store"? It seems like your very pro BW stance makes any reasonable customer sound like they are anti BW and want to see the company colapse and the game fail. I like BW and I want to see the game succeed, however im still entitled to be unhappy with the service, right?

[TUXs]

Yeah...I simply don't know how much I believe that line about listening to the customer. Sounds great and gets people like you OP to fawn all over them for doing the right thing, but...nah...I'm skeptical right now.

[SubSub]

OP--Your original post asked a straightforward question: "why is it that some people bash Bioware for taking out Ranked Warzones in 1.2?" You received a wide range of well-articulated, nuanced, and level-headed replies--the majority of which indicated maturity and recognition of your main points. In short, people explained precisely why they were frustrated by the loss of ranked WZs.

 

You are not frustrated. Others are. Does that mean they are "acting like a 4-year old who isn't getting his/her way"? Their responses don't seem to show this type of petulance. They have different hopes and wants for their gaming experience, and they answered your question fairly and compassionately. Provide them with the same degree of respect.

[Majestic_Jazz]

So we should just blindly hand over our money? Why does an unsatisfied customer who was not delivered a product that was promised = "a 4-year old who isn't getting his/her way in a candy/toy store"? It seems like your very pro BW stance makes any reasonable customer sound like they are anti BW and want to see the company colapse and the game fail. I like BW and I want to see the game succeed, however im still entitled to be unhappy with the service, right?

 

I am not saying that we should be passive consumers who just accept whatever is given to us. Believe me, I firmly believe that SMART consumers are consumers who do NOT accept whatever is given to them.

 

I fully believe that we should put pressure on Bioware to deliever the best product that they can. We want Bioware to give their 100%. Not 90% but 100%

 

HOWEVER

 

Like my father told me, there is a right way to do things and there is a wrong way to do things. There is a mature way to approach a situation and there is an immature way. I am very upset that Ranked Warzones aren't in 1.2 because that was the main feature I was waiting for! The reason why I am not playing SWTOR right now is because of the lack of Ranked Warzones. If it were in, I would still be playing with my level 50 Sith Juggernaut because I have a minor "epeen" [At least I'm honest about it] and I do like to see my accomplishments stacked/ranked against others. I was really looking forward to this! Hell, I was almost about to join a PvP guild just to have some buddies to roll with in the Ranked/Group Ranked Warzones. Now, because of no Ranked Warzones, I have decided to not play until either Ranked Warzones are put in or when Server Transfers happen, which ever one happens first. BUT, I am not going to throw pillows at the wall because there aren't Ranked Warzones. I am reasonable enough to understand that Bioware IS working on this behind the scenes. I don't need Bioware to inform me on every small detail that goes on because I can take their word for it. They said UI Customization was coming, and it came and it is great! They took out armor color matching right before launch and told us that they will refine it and release it at a later time, and they did and it is great! They are saying that they are looking into improving Space Combat and possibly even implementing it into class stories and I am sure it will be great! They are saying that they are improving Ranked Warzones and I am sure that will be great!

 

So no, I am not someone who is a fanboy and just follow a developer no matter what. Believe me, you should have seen me at the Mass Effect 2 forums after it came out and how I gave Bioware my 2 cents on how I believe they are trying to push asside their RPG fans in favor of a much larger Shooter fanbase by dumbing down ME2 from ME1 in terms of RPG elements. However, I know how to handle it in a mature fashion. What people here are doing with Bioware regarding Ranked Warzones is just elementary, real talk. PEOPLE, Bioware never said they are taking away Ranked Warzones and it will never be back. NO, they said that they are delaying it until they can get it to where it is much more robust in quality then what it was. I mean, isn't that what you want? Don't you want your developers to refine features and make sure they are not broken at release? Wouldn't you as a paying customer be upset if Bioware just threw out some half-azzed Ranked Warzone feature in 1.2 without any clear dedication to it other than to just "shut the PvP crowd up"?

 

Again, people would be throwing tomatoes at Bioware if they released a broken Ranked Warzone system in 1.2 but they did not! They took it out so that they can work on it more. So whats all the fuss about?

 

Damned if they do........damned if they don't!

[Synxos]

 

So while we did not get Ranked WZs in 1.2 when we were lead to believe so, at least we will get it later on with a bigger and better version.

 

So my question is this.....why is it that some people bash Bioware for taking out Ranked Warzones in 1.2? It isn't like they trolled us and pressed the "SIKE!" button at the last minute.

 

Um, I doubt you're going to get a "bigger and better version." You'll most likely to get a working version, and even then I bet it'll be pretty buggy.

 

For you second point that I quoted, that's exactly what they did. They removed them about 8 hours before the patch. They knew that it wouldn't be ready, most likely, weeks before it was scheduled, yet they still kept advertising it for 1.2 They essentially pressed the "sike button at the last minute"

[Synxos]

For someone who complains about people not listening to him, you sure don't listen to other people....

I think you need to reconsider your definition of listening, it doesn't mean "read what I write and believe every word of it, and share my viewpoint."

 

It's not just Ranked WZs that are the problem. You're acting like that's their only mistake. RWZs were just the straw that broke the camels back.

[Majestic_Jazz]

Um, I doubt you're going to get a "bigger and better version." You'll most likely to get a working version, and even then I bet it'll be pretty buggy.

 

For you second point that I quoted, that's exactly what they did. They removed them about 8 hours before the patch. They knew that it wouldn't be ready, most likely, weeks before it was scheduled, yet they still kept advertising it for 1.2 They essentially pressed the "sike button at the last minute"

 

#1 I'll give you that. Maybe it won't be BIGGER and BETTER because like you said, essentially EVERYTHING in a MMO is a working version and will be improved over time through patches and expansions. However, what we do get, I bet it would be better than what we would have had at 1.2

 

#2 You have no clue what is going on or what went on in the hallways of Bioware Austin prior to 1.2. Things happen, major hiccups occur at the last minuete. Maybe you have never done this, but there have been times when I was about to print out my research paper, and put it in a folder to turn in before I noticed a mistake that needed to be fixed or else it would effect my grade. Maybe it could have been a grammar mistake, maybe I forgot to put page numbers in. Who knows, but it was a last minuete adjustment that NEEDED to be adjusted. So instead of leaving the library at 12:15PM to goto the 12:30PM class, I am leaving at 12:25PM to fix this mistake and then rush to class. Sometimes before I turn in a math test I review everything to make sure I answered all of the questions and whatnot when I notice that an answer that was supposed to be -2 instead was 2. So I go back in and add the negative sign so I don't get it wrong.

 

Probably a bad analogy [i am bad at them] but you get the jist. Perhaps they were ready to go with Ranked Warzones until the final hours when something came up, when something was mentioned, or something was brought up which made the team consider not releasing this with 1.2. What it was? Who knows, in this regard, Bioware is remaining quiet on. How in this world do you know that Bioware knew about the Ranked Warzone problems days/weeks before 1.2 launch and decided to troll us at the last second? YOu don't know that so don't pass it as fact as it is just your speculation. What we do know is that something wasn't right so they did not release it. At the end of the day, they made the smart decision.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Majestic_Jazz