If the Force should stay in balance...

[TheBentOne]

^Somebody has read too many Sith holocrons

 

If the Jedi wanted control of the galaxy they would have taken control a long time ago. The Jedi are keepers of the peace. The Sith want to control the galaxy and destroy anything in their way.

 

No, the jedi do control everything bro... it’s like the space illuminati.... far out man .

 

In all seriousness though, the Jedi do tend to walk all over republic law whenever it suites them.

 

I give them credit though, unlike the sith, they don't cause suffering; they are just indifferent to it.

[Captain_Zone]

See this person you quoted makes the mistake of not clarifying what is stupid in EU. There are some things I find distasteful in EU but that doesn't mean I hate the EU. This game is great and a good portion of the books are great, but some really irk me. My biggest beef with the EU is the Emperor coming back, but that was when they didn't know where to take the EU so they say "We need a Sith to come back" and BAM! Empy's back.

 

I actually enjoyed the Dark Empire trilogy. It set the stage for the Sith Emperor's "immortality" in TOR, in fact. Which is why I've stated several times that it wouldn't surprise me if it takes a Brand style sacrifice to stop Vitiate for good.

 

Empatojayos Brand. Best. Jedi. Ever.

[Captain_Zone]

No, the jedi do control everything bro... it’s like the space illuminati.... far out man .

 

In all seriousness though, the Jedi do tend to walk all over republic law whenever it suites them.

 

I give them credit though, unlike the sith, they don't cause suffering; they are just indifferent to it.

 

I highly recommend the Imperial Agent story if you haven't played through it yet. Very eye-opening.

[Velaran]

George Lucas, from the intro to the ANH Special Edition VHS.

 

That's Lucas' definition. In the universe of the movies, which is the entirety of Star Wars according to Lucas, there is the Force and the Dark Side. The Force is the Force in its natural state--peaceful, harmonious, balanced. The Dark Side is the corruption of that. He likened it to cancer, where the Force itself was more of a symbiotic relationship. One is healthy; the other kills.

 

Then the man is contradicting himself.

[Aurbere]

I actually enjoyed the Dark Empire trilogy. It set the stage for the Sith Emperor's "immortality" in TOR, in fact. Which is why I've stated several times that it wouldn't surprise me if it takes a Brand style sacrifice to stop Vitiate for good.

 

Empatojayos Brand. Best. Jedi. Ever.

 

Dark Empire kinda defeated the point of fighting the Empire for me, until the end of course. I mean why fight the Empire and kill the Emperor if he can just clone himself. Talk about trolling. That's my POV, but at least Vader didn't come back. That would have made him the hardest person to kill EVER.

[Halinmonk]

Mostly X-Posted because I am to lazy to write up something new.

 

Personally I find George 's opinion to be ****, or at least worth no more then the opinion of any fan.

 

Death of the Author is a concept from the field of literary criticism which holds that an author's intentions and biographical facts (the author's politics, religion, etc) should hold no weight when coming to an interpretation of his or her writing; that is, that a writer's interpretation of his own work is no more valid than the interpretations of any of the readers

 

'''' in that case [Lucas's daughter's] opinion would still have no more value then the random Joe Bob that reads or watches the series and it's materials. The whole point of "Death Of The Author" is not the actual death of the author, but rather their ability to dictate how their universe is interpreted. The author may say something is meant as X but if the fan interprets it as Y then it's Y.

 

Also:

For what it may or may not be worth, I think that it's telling that, baring Sideous and the "Rule of Two" order neither Jedi nor Sith are ever completely in the right or in the wrong: this most evident in TOR.

 

The Jedi risk becoming monsters in the name of the greater good because they detach themselves from emotion, including compassion and love, thusly allowing them to commit near horrendous acts in the name of the "greater good". When you sever all earthly attachments you can no longer feel sympathy or pity for those your are supposed to protect and may actual do more harm then good in your crusade to up hold a abstract ideal. For instance: in the Sith Warrior quest line you watch a Jedi Master break the mind of a Knight in order to protect a Padawan with great value t the Jedi cause, in the movies themselves the Jedi are ultamietly destroyed because Mace Windu seeks to size control of the Senate to "maintain stability" after he uncovers the truth about Palpatine.

 

On the flip side, the downsides of the Sith are clear: uncaring selfish often cruel, and nearly always look out for their own ends, doing anything they can to achieve their goals. But the positive side is also clear, rather then deny human emotions they embrace and use them, they focus on freedom ("My chains are broken") and self strength, there disciplines are harsh and often fatal but they live life to it's fullest, and fight for their freedom to the death rather then be enslaved. They lie, they cheat, they plot, they scheme, they betray each other constatly but when they find true strength they follow it as long as they can respect it, and know they can not do a better job then their leader. This "survival of the fittest" "follow the strongest" mentality makes the a very elite order.

 

Really the conflict between the Dark and Light side is less "good VS evil" and more "emotion VS reason" or "the primal VS the cultured" if your feeling Fruedian "the Superego (Jedi) VS the ID (Sith)"

Edited May 11, 2012 by Halinmonk

[DarthPsychonis]

George Lucas, from the intro to the ANH Special Edition VHS.

 

That's Lucas' definition. In the universe of the movies, which is the entirety of Star Wars according to Lucas, there is the Force and the Dark Side. The Force is the Force in its natural state--peaceful, harmonious, balanced. The Dark Side is the corruption of that. He likened it to cancer, where the Force itself was more of a symbiotic relationship. One is healthy; the other kills.

 

The EU definition, however, can be different. Dawn of the Jedi is a major example of this: The Je'daii believe that the Force is balanced by embracing both Light and Dark.

 

Sorry dude, but that doesn't prove anything. Your taking one quote out of context and saying "See! See! I told you! Lucas thinks the Dark Side is a cancer...etc" Velaran has already posted several other quotes that shows that Lucas believes that the Force has a Yin-Yang relationship, where both sides are necessary. You are missing his point, yes Anakin brings balance back to the Force by killing the Sith, but the Force was first thrown out of balance by what the Sith where doing, not just because the Sith existed. Darth Maul even stated in the last Clone Wars episode "the Force feels....out of balance" before realizing that Sidious' plans had be going on without him. This clearly implies that the Force was in balance by the time of Ep. I. Keep in mind that everything that happens in The Clone Wars (including the Mortis triolgy) are not EU, the stories come from Lucas himself and are under his supervision. Lucas based the idea of the Force on East Asia religions, and if you read anything about Yin & Yang, there is a strong impasses in keeping the balance between the two. If the dark side is just a cancer like you say, with the light side as the true nature state of the Force, why on earth is Lucas using the word balance, which in itself implies at lest two parts? Having only one part of something is not balance. I also have trouble imagining how if the Dark Side's existence is dependent on the Sith, then how could the original Sith have turned to the dark side if it had not existed before then? The Force can be pushed in one direction or the other, but people who can use the Force can't just create a direction themselves. There is the Light Side and The Dark Side , period.

Edited May 13, 2012 by DarthPsychonis

[MasterChiang]

This is definitely a sticky topic. The conflict between the Jedi and the Sith is a picture of the real-life battle between good and evil. Because of the dark side's presence, there is always the possibility of someone succumbing to its lure. Therefore, a true sense of balance cannot be reached because the Jedi will always be fighting something.

[murshawursha]

Before Order 66: Thousands upon thousands of Jedi, two sith.

After Order 66: Two Jedi (Yoda and Obi-Wan) and two Sith (Anakin and Sidious)

 

So yeah, I'd say Anakin successfully brought balance to the force

[Velaran]

Before Order 66: Thousands upon thousands of Jedi, two sith.

After Order 66: Two Jedi (Yoda and Obi-Wan) and two Sith (Anakin and Sidious)

 

So yeah, I'd say Anakin successfully brought balance to the force

 

Technically there were more Jedi then just Yoda and Obi-Wan, (like Ferus Olin.) but you might be able to consider them "lesser Jedi", and they were balanced out by some of the Dark Force users Palpatine and Vader trained.

[Captain_Zone]

Mostly X-Posted because I am to lazy to write up something new.

 

Personally I find George 's opinion to be ****, or at least worth no more then the opinion of any fan.

 

 

 

 

 

Also:

 

There is much wisdom in this. +10 sir.

You just won every debate where George Lucas's mental health is brought into question.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Captain_Zone]

Then the man is contradicting himself.

 

Agreed. George contradicts himself so much, I've lost all faith in anything he has to say. Star Wars outgrew him and took on a life of its own. Most of the best stories.... scratch that. ALL of the best stories in Star Wars have come from the Expanded Universe. Writers like Stackpole, Zahn, Jeter, Allston, The BioWare team, etc. Every one of them writes better dialogue and a more even story than George Lucas.

[undeadsithdread]

again the whole point of chosen one is destroy darth bane rule of two because they started and learned how to mess with force (darth Tenebrous plagueis and sidious ) by creating the all powerful sith which itself is dangerous no sith order ever or any dark sider tried to mess with force itself and could lead into destroying the light side from the force anakin put end to it by killing the emperor and allowed himself as vader to die.

[EnsignSorrow]

Why do the Jedi hate the Sith so much? Anytime a Sith says "Hello. My name is Darth Evilface", the Jedi either try to redeem him, or fight him (and kill him). If the Jedi really wanted balance, they'd leave the Sith be, or at least keep them away from their area (they get part of the galaxy, the Jedi get the other part). Perfect balance.

 

Throughout canon, whenever the Jedi win, they say the Force is in balance, when it isn't. In fact, it's far from it.

 

Balance in the force does not mean half light side, half dark side. Let's establish that first.

 

Light side = balance

Dark side = imbalance

Edited May 12, 2012 by EnsignSorrow

[Velaran]

Balance in the force does not mean half light side, half dark side. Let's establish that first.

 

Light side = balance

Dark side = imbalance

 

Did you not even read the first page? Or the rest of the thread?

Edited May 12, 2012 by Velaran

[MrGoldsilver]

Maybe real balance SHOULD have been the total destruction of both sides. Hear me out.

 

-The jedi (pre order 66 especially) where somewhat out to kill anyone who wasn't with them, no questions asked. While they did some good they didn't want to get their hands dirty as a whole and actually stop crime. Plus they used A SLAVE ARMY to fight in a war with no purpose. They where blinded not only by palpy but by themselves.

 

-The sith just want to kill everyone for power and don't care the least about everyone. 'Nuff said.

 

-Have you noticed that almost every war in the galaxy after the creation of the sith was just the sith and jedi trying to destroy each other, while the galaxy suffered. As one republic deserter put it "Shab, another Sith. Same old feud. Why don't all the Sith and Jedi move to some planet nobody's ever heard of and slug it out in private, and leave the rest of the galaxy in peace" (Imperial Commando by Karen Traviss, Pg-77)

 

-I believe that the best thing that could happen in the SW galaxy is that the Bringer of Chaos comes, kills all the sith and jedi and then explodes. Not disappears, just have Abeloth explode... It's funnier that way.

 

-Ok I'm tired of typing. 'Till after someone objects to everything I just said

[Darth_Krushya]

The existence of the Sith is what causes the Force to be out of balance. Balance doesn't mean a yin/yang type of equal parts dark/light. Balance is the absence of the Sith.

 

This isn't a mater of my opinion on it, this is what George Lucas has said.

 

Thank you so much for stating so.

 

George Lucas said (and I'm paraphrasing - not a direct quote) that the galaxy is like the body. The light side is a healthy body in balance, but the dark side is like cancer. It feeds on the healthy body and destroys it to sustain it's own growth. The Dark Side is corruption and the only way to achieve balance is to eliminate the cancer.

 

This information was disclosed in the Star Wars Trilogy Bonus Material Disc.

[Jandi]

Thank you so much for stating so.

 

George Lucas said (and I'm paraphrasing - not a direct quote) that the galaxy is like the body. The light side is a healthy body in balance, but the dark side is like cancer. It feeds on the healthy body and destroys it to sustain it's own growth. The Dark Side is corruption and the only way to achieve balance is to eliminate the cancer.

 

This information was disclosed in the Star Wars Trilogy Bonus Material Disc.

 

Yet no matter how many thousand times people repeat it in threads such as these, people refuse to understand it and instead, come up with the most absurd reasoning (ironically enough, it usually defines reason).

 

It's cool to be dark and edgy.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Jandi

[Kaedusz]

The only time ''balance in the force'' is mentioned is in the movies.Nowhere else.And only in this context the jedi want to bring the force back in balance.This is so because before episode I Sidious and Plagueis through some kind of ritual/meditation or something like that tried to subdue the whole force to their will and cloud it in darkness.This means that the force in the galaxy shifted to the dark side and it was done through unnatural means.This is also why the jedi's power to use the force was diminished.From this point onward the force was not in balance.The nature of this thing is some kind of war that the Sith fight againts the jedi ,but through the force,not in the physical world.

 

 

This + Plagueis attempts to play god and create life from nothing is the reason the force was not in balance by the time of the movies.

 

Because the Force(as an unanthropomorphic god) doesn't like it when some1 meddle in its affairs it decided to punish the sith,so Anakin was born,both because of Plagueis's attemps and because the force fought back against the sith.

 

This is everything that is there to be said on this topic.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Kaedusz

[Wolfninjajedi]

Yet no matter how many thousand times people repeat it in threads such as these, people refuse to understand it and instead, come up with the most absurd reasoning (ironically enough, it usually defines reason).

 

It's cool to be dark and edgy.

 

You don't even need that quote lol, its quite clearly shown through Star Wars lore that the darkside destroys oneself while you have the other where the person seems A-OK.

[October]

That doesn't make sense, though (to me, at least). So long as there will be Jedi there will be Sith. Some Jedi and Sith have even recognized this fact. If the Dark side were the cancer of it all, and the Light side is part of the balance, then there should be no Jedi (and no Sith to poison them) and just the Force itself.

 

And what would that make of The Ones? The Son, representing the dark, and the Daughter, representing the light, were kept in balance by The Father, who was neutral/utilized both.

 

You can't say there is no balance to the Force, because if there wasn't then Anakin's existence wouldn't have happened. (He was created from the Force to restore balance, after all, albeit in retaliation of what a darksider did.)

Edited June 2, 2013 by October

[Kaedusz]

The light side is a healthy body in balance, but the dark side is like cancer. It feeds on the healthy body and destroys it to sustain it's own growth. The Dark Side is corruption and the only way to achieve balance is to eliminate the cancer.

 

This is one of the most foolish things i have ever seen about SW.

[Jandi]

This is one of the most foolish things i have ever seen about SW.

 

Foolish or not, it is how it is in the SW universe. Dark side is the cancer that the Jedi and all good natured force users must always be vigilant against or it will consume them.

 

But hey, it's always more fun to burn out than fade away anyways.

[Darth_Krushya]

I'm not trying to say that I necessarily believe in this statement, but rather, I am merely giving GL's canon definition of balance in the SW universe.

 

I enjoy playing the bad guy as much as everyone.

[Beniboybling]

Ooh a necro. But whatever this is interesting.

"The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil."

 

-George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

 

"In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything."

 

-George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002

 

"The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film."

 

-George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays

 

"The Force has two sides. It is not a malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope."

 

-George Lucas, Times Magazine, 1980

 

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in 'Star Wars.'"

 

-George Lucas, Times Magazine, 2002

 

"The Light is positive. It is intimately bound with the essence of living things; it is peace, harmony and knowledge. The Light Side springs from the great pattern of existence. It draws strength from diversity and tolerance. It is also inherently communal in nature, thriving on cooperation. Those emotions that enhance the existence of the whole flow from it and tap into its great reserves of strength and peace. Patience, humility and self-sacrifice are paths to enlightenment. Above all, it seeks harmony and perfection.

 

The Dark Side, in comparison, is the force of entropy and destruction. Chaos and rage feed it and are its sources of power. The Dark Side is a part of nature — it is not inherently evil, but evil comes from its irrationality, its intolerance and its lack of control. ******* and predatory, domination is its goal. Mercilessly aggressive and unforgiving, its adherents are blinded by greed and lust for power over those weaker than themselves.

 

The Light and Dark Side manifest themselves in the way they are used; they are simply different interpretations of a single aspect of nature, and they exist in balance with themselves and the universe. Just as with any aspect of life and death, both the Dark Side and the Light Side are intertwined with each other, are necessary to each other and form a cosmic balance."

 

-The Dark Empire Sourcebook

 

Aaaand the Mortis arc uses this theme again.

 

Lucas may think the Dark Side is evil, (Which is a very subjective term.) but he doesn't think it's a corruption of the Force.

Especially this, this would seem to directly contradict what the above posters have just said. Personally I believe that balance is well, balance. Light and dark existing equally.

 

Either way despite what Lucas had said in the past, the Mortis arc is sort of the be all and end all on this topic. Remembering that Lucas was heavily in the production of this series. To quote the Father:

 

'Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it.'

 

To me, this makes sense. The Force is comprised of both the light side and the dark side so logically balance would be balance between the too poles. And while the Prophecy of the Chosen One would seem to contradict this I would not exactly say so. If we remember the Mortis arc the Father chose Anakin to take his place because he was the Chosen One. He was destined to bring balance to the Force and the Father believed he would do that by taking his place in controlling both the Son and the Daughter, not killing the Son and letting the Daughter live.

 

And let's think for a moment, did Anakin restore balance to the Force simply by destroying the Emperor? Are we forgetting how he spearheaded the Great Jedi Purge that exterminated hundreds and hundreds of light sided Force wielders? IMO Anakin restored balance through purgatory, he destroyed the old Jedi Order who arguably had lost there way and then destroyed the Emperor, whom had shifted the Force to a dark side extremity. Effectively, as someone already said, resetting the dial to zero.

 

Which in turn, supports the notion that the Force is indifferent and uncaring and only really strives to maintain balance, even if it means causing the deaths of countless ~ Kreia. Just thought I'd throw it in there.

 

EDIT: In turn, this would seem to imply that the Living Force philosophy is wrong and the Unifying Force philosophy closer to the truth - that the Force isn't good or evil, its just 'the Force'.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Beniboybling