If the Force should stay in balance...

[Beniboybling]

The only time ''balance in the force'' is mentioned is in the movies.Nowhere else.And only in this context the jedi want to bring the force back in balance.This is so because before episode I Sidious and Plagueis through some kind of ritual/meditation or something like that tried to subdue the whole force to their will and cloud it in darkness.This means that the force in the galaxy shifted to the dark side and it was done through unnatural means.This is also why the jedi's power to use the force was diminished.From this point onward the force was not in balance.The nature of this thing is some kind of war that the Sith fight againts the jedi ,but through the force,not in the physical world.

 

 

This + Plagueis attempts to play god and create life from nothing is the reason the force was not in balance by the time of the movies.

 

Because the Force(as an unanthropomorphic god) doesn't like it when some1 meddle in its affairs it decided to punish the sith,so Anakin was born,both because of Plagueis's attemps and because the force fought back against the sith.

 

This is everything that is there to be said on this topic.

This, pretty much this.

[TalonVII]

My view is this, without evil, how would we ever really know what being good is worth? It just violates a basic law of nature.

 

You cannot have one force without an equal and opposite force.

[AlexDougherty]

Why do the Jedi hate the Sith so much? Anytime a Sith says "Hello. My name is Darth Evilface", the Jedi either try to redeem him, or fight him (and kill him). If the Jedi really wanted balance, they'd leave the Sith be, or at least keep them away from their area (they get part of the galaxy, the Jedi get the other part). Perfect balance.

 

Throughout canon, whenever the Jedi win, they say the Force is in balance, when it isn't. In fact, it's far from it.

 

There is more to life than balance, just because the light and dark sides balance doesn't mean you have a perfect state of being.

 

The Sith (and other darksiders) will not leave you alone just because the Force might get unbalanced, they don't care about balance. For true stability you need more, you need various stabilising effects, and you would still need to maintain the balance. Ideally this would mean that a Sith conquering a star system would find that he no longer has any trade, and a load of Jedi are on their way to kick his derriere, reducing any benfits he gets from capturing that system.

 

Also the Jedi only care about the Force being in balance to the extent that it affects their ability to use it, they are more interested in the galaxy being at peace (not really about it being at fair and just society despite what they say).

[Aurbere]

The Force is in balance when the Sith are not using the Dark Side to suppress the Light. That's why the Jedi attempt to destroy the Sith, because they unbalance the Force.

 

Other theories on balance include the "numbers game." In that when Palpatine took over there were only two Jedi and two Sith, thus creating balance. Balance is a spiritual thing, not a numerical one. Not only that, but Palpatine trained many followers in the Dark Side, and there were more than two Jedi left in the galaxy.

 

Another theory is that Vader created balance by helping Palpatine to power and purging the Jedi Order. I don't see where this idea came from, but it is wrong. The Jedi were not off-setting the balance, Palpatine was. Purging the Jedi Order would only further unbalance the Force towards the Dark Side.

 

Some interesting facts for you. Darth Plagueis believed that the Force was actively working against him, and he believed that the Force was inherently Light Side. It is also G-CANON that Palpatine's death brought balance to the Force.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

The Force is in balance when the Sith are not using the Dark Side to suppress the Light. That's why the Jedi attempt to destroy the Sith, because they unbalance the Force

Surely though it works both ways? Surely the Force is equally imbalanced when the Jedi are using the Light Side to suppress the Dark? Given that the Sith always return after the Jedi defeat them I'd say that is the case.

Some interesting facts for you. Darth Plagueis believed that the Force was actively working against him, and he believed that the Force was inherently Light Side. It is also G-CANON that Palpatine's death brought balance to the Force.

Darth Plagueis also believed that Force ghosts didn't exist, and that there was no such thing as the Netherworld of the Force or Chaos. He is not exactly a reliable source. George Lucas also himself stated that the Force is not good or evil (which is news to me.) I agree with you on the last part though... not sure anyone disagrees with that.

[Aurbere]

Surely though it works both ways? Surely the Force is equally imbalanced when the Jedi are using the Light Side to suppress the Dark? Given that the Sith always return after the Jedi defeat them I'd say that is the case.

 

You would think that, yes? (I would too) I believe Professor Walsh (far more knowledgeable than myself) discussed this a while back and (from memory) he said that the Jedi's power doesn't influence the Force. I would have to dig through past threads, but that would take a very very long time.

 

Darth Plagueis also believed that Force ghosts didn't exist, and that there was no such thing as the Netherworld of the Force or Chaos. He is not exactly a reliable source. George Lucas also himself stated that the Force is not good or evil (which is news to me.) I agree with you on the last part though... not sure anyone disagrees with that.

 

Well, Darth Plagueis is a character so we can't really use him for this. But the fact remains that Palpatine's death restored balance to the Force, thus pointing to him being the cause of the unbalance.

[abishe]

I think when people say light/dark. they wrong pulse of philosophy.

I think Jedi/sith are better off being painted as Order VS Chaos.

 

To much Pure Order tends towards chaos, as Pure Chaos tends to Order, perfect circle.

like life.

 

without chaos nothing new will ever arise, without order anything falls apart.

on side note, Jedi is to Pure ingame for being right.

[Beniboybling]

You would think that, yes? (I would too) I believe Professor Walsh (far more knowledgeable than myself) discussed this a while back and (from memory) he said that the Jedi's power doesn't influence the Force. I would have to dig through past threads, but that would take a very very long time.

...who's Professor Walsh? Either way I suppose that sort of makes sense. Jedi allow the Force to use them, while dark siders are constantly attempting to bend the Force to their will.

[Wolfninjajedi]

...who's Professor Walsh? Either way I suppose that sort of makes sense. Jedi allow the Force to use them, while dark siders are constantly attempting to bend the Force to their will.

 

You don't know who Professor Walsh is?! Oh...wait don't think you were here during that time. Hmm...he was goooooood.

[Beniboybling]

You don't know who Professor Walsh is?! Oh...wait don't think you were here during that time. Hmm...he was goooooood.

Lol, what did Prof. Fancy Pants do?

[Wolfninjajedi]

Lol, what did Prof. Fancy Pants do?

 

I can't remember lol, but he pretty much knew a ton of SW lore.

[Aurbere]

Lol, what did Prof. Fancy Pants do?

 

I don't recall everything, but he had a vast knowledge of Star Wars lore.

[tunewalker]

I don't recall everything, but he had a vast knowledge of Star Wars lore.

 

Ya pretty much this I wasn't posting much at the time but I read a lot of Walsh's stuff he would blow my mind with how much he knew that I was like all the time.

[JacenHallis]

The problem with using Lucas himself as a source is that he's changed his mind a number of times on what exactly the "balance of the Force" means. There was a time when he did say that the Dark Side was what caused the imbalance in the Force, and that, by killing the Emperor (and then subsequently dying himself), Anakin Skywalker returned balance to the Force, even with Luke still around. He likened the Dark Side to a cancer, with "The Force" (he never mentions a Light Side, after all) being a body. The tumor must be removed in order for the body to maintain homeostasis.

 

At other times, he's gone the D&D druid route: the struggle between Light and Dark, good and evil.

 

Honestly, the answer you'd get from Lucas really depends on a number of variables that seem to include planetary alignment, fatigue level, and what he ate for lunch earlier.

[Halinmonk]

It's not just Lucas that's the problem- no writer in entire Star Wars universe can friggin get their story straight on how DS/LS works.

[MyDarkSunshine]

It's not just Lucas that's the problem- no writer in entire Star Wars universe can friggin get their story straight on how DS/LS works.

 

Given Lucas created the universe, I doubt any of the other writers want to step on his toes by giving a definitive "this is how the Force works". They might offer their own opinion, through the use of a fallible source such as a character's or Force tradition's outlook, but they're unlikely to lay it down omniscient narrator style.

[Jandi]

Given Lucas created the universe, I doubt any of the other writers want to step on his toes by giving a definitive "this is how the Force works". They might offer their own opinion, through the use of a fallible source such as a character's or Force tradition's outlook, but they're unlikely to lay it down omniscient narrator style.

 

Maybe that's the point? To keep it a mystery and a subject for debate by characters in-universe? If someone came and outright explained the whole thing it would strip away all mystery from it and everyone could easily point who is right and who is wrong, completely removing any basis for ideological or philosophical discussion in-universe.

[Beniboybling]

Maybe that's the point? To keep it a mystery and a subject for debate by characters in-universe? If someone came and outright explained the whole thing it would strip away all mystery from it and everyone could easily point who is right and who is wrong, completely removing any basis for ideological or philosophical discussion in-universe.

I doubt that's the point. But it works either way.

 

But yeah, when discussing the Force I tend to move away from G-Canon statements. Although that list of quotes posted on the first page was very interesting.

[EnsignSorrow]

I've said this a million times. Balance in the force does not mean half dark half light.

 

It means stability in the force.

[Beniboybling]

I've said this a million times. Balance in the force does not mean half dark half light.

 

It means stability in the force.

And you can say it a million times again, but until you give some grounds for your argument I'm afraid you wont be listened to. Edited June 3, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

I don't recall everything, but he had a vast knowledge of Star Wars lore.

He sounds pretty special.

[EnsignSorrow]

And you can say it a million times again, but until you give some grounds for your argument I'm afraid you wont be listened to.

 

 

How can you be dark side and not dark side at the same time? That does not make sense.

 

So let's say you embrace the dark side of the force then how will it be possible to not use the dark side to be half and half? LOL

 

This is a huge misconception among people who do not understand or know anything about the canon.

 

If you go off of pure canon the definition of balance in the force is when the dark force shroud is cleared, and the force is not diminished.

 

LEARN ABOUT THE DARK FORCE SHROUD. GOOGLE IT!!!

 

This is not my opinion. This is fact. If you do not understand this then you do not know what the term even means.

Edited June 3, 2013 by EnsignSorrow

[Beniboybling]

How can you be dark side and not dark side at the same time? That does not make sense.

 

So let's say you embrace the dark side of the force then how will it be possible to not use the dark side to be half and half? LOL

 

This is a huge misconception among people who do not understand or know anything about the canon.

 

If you go off of pure canon the definition of balance in the force is when the dark force shroud is cleared, and the force is not diminished.

 

LEARN ABOUT THE DARK FORCE SHROUD. GOOGLE IT!!!

 

This is not my opinion. This is fact. If you do not understand this then you do not know what the term even means.

Forgive me but I don't see what relevance this has to the debate. We are not discussing whether a Force user can use both sides of the Force, this debate goes beyond that. And I'm not sure what you refer to as 'the dark force shroud' exists. Edited June 4, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

He sounds pretty special.

 

He actually has a Star Wars blog where he answers questions submitted by people.

[Silenthavok]

 

This is not my opinion. This is fact. If you do not understand this then you do not know what the term even means.

 

 

ummmm this is all fiction, even when facts are added to fiction it does not make the fiction less fiction. In terms of the Force there are no facts about what the Force is; Light or Dark because it does not exists. It is an interpretation of of what the story teller was trying commune through his vision of the story. Even Lucas himself has changed the idea of what the Force is. He could say it is this way or that way and I can still interpret the meaning any way I want because it is fiction. Even if he said it is this way and only this way, I as the interpreter of the story can disagree with his interpretation. There is no "Force" and can not have any real facts associated with it and hence it can be whatever you want it be.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Silenthavok