Patch 1.3 Dungeon Finder

[chaosdefined]

That it appears that Cata was the least in influencing the changes in subs at the time, by the chart. Perhaps not the patch prior to Cata release.

 

But if not the Patch 4.0.1 then something else was the leading cause of the drop in subs. Something like a feature? or people finishing content and moving on?

 

I've no idea where you're going with this or even why. We've proven our point, that other person can't read graphs properly and made up some rubbish about WoW losing 2mil sub's cause of the LFD. They were wrong. That's the only point we were making.

You're sort of just going off on a strange and unrelated tangent...

[Jaxarale]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jaxarale View Post

In December 2009 when it was introduced with patch 3.3 WoW subs went on to reach a record 12.5 million in the next 10 months... clearly showing it was a "craptastic failure"....

 

When you misrepresent the truth so drastically, please insure that the facts can not be found by a simple google search...

Please note that what you state as fact is not even proven as the cause of the effect.

 

 

Patch 3.3.0 was the release of New Content such as Icecrown Citadel, which brings gamers back to do the new content, and the Christmas holidays that entails such things as gifts which include both games and game cards.

 

A possibility is not a fact, but a mere conjecture.

 

Just copy and pasted your original post with my quote... as my quote can not be changed... go back and take a look to make sure I am not lying... still NOTHING showing I said LFG upped subs... I see me saying exactly what I said previous... that it shows it wasn't a craptastic failure... Not once did I day anything your alleging...

 

I hear there are places you can get help, I have provided you a link, I hope you will get better and that I have helped you in some small way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Act

[KBSIP]

ah yes, hello children whining about how LFG will kill the community and is responsible for WoW's downfall.

 

Just a few quick observations;

1), WoW is still so large it can pick competitors, including Swtor, out of its teeth and not skip a beat. Good on them because that massive revenue stream means more funds for Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2, and unlike bioware they don't rush out their games because of deadlines and forget crucial features anymore.

 

2) cross-server LFG is a necessary function. End of the day, bioware is refusing to do server merges because of bad press, even if someone at the company says they're "on the table". If you don't do server merges, the free transfers are going to make light/low servers essentially dead, and you still owe it to those players who either missed out on the transfers or don't want to transfer to have a tool that gives them content access. Currently its fair to say a significant majority of the servers have little to know flashpoint running outside of clearing stuff for dailies/weeklies, and even then only at level 50.

The only pre-50 FP's you'll see run on many servers are pity runs or alt runs for people being handled by 50s.

 

swtor community as a whole never got off the ground. The chat system is pathetic, group content largely few and far between in the leveling process, and flashpoints a temporary diversion often ignroed while leveling because they're a time sink to get a group for.

 

cross server LFG will allow people who cannot access basic group content currently to get into it without having to first outlevel the content.

[Goretzu]

Holy mystical Batman catfish Batman! Yes I did say Batman twice.

 

What exactly is a dungeon in MOO's. MOO lingo n00b here.

 

A Moo?

[Jaxarale]

But if not the Patch 4.0.1 then something else was the leading cause of the drop in subs. Something like a feature?

 

LOL talk about a reach for something to substantiate your failure to prove your point... during the first 10 months of LFG and subs go to 12 million... the content is consumed and people start un-subbing waiting for the next content patch or expac and you try and tie that drop to LFG?

 

REALLY?

 

I mean... REALLY?

 

Wow... please use the link I provided bud... there is something terribly wrong somewhere...

Edited May 10, 2012 by Jaxarale

[Parali]

Greetings,

 

We know that many players are interested in learning more about the upcoming dungeon finder tool. Principal Lead Systems Designer Damion Schubert talked a little about how the tool will work on the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ Official Podcast: Episode 1, "Rocket Boots". You can listen to what he had to say, starting

.

 

We hope this sheds some light on the issue. Thank you for your feedback!

 

[Esproc]

I've no idea where you're going with this or even why. We've proven our point, that other person can't read graphs properly and made up some rubbish about WoW losing 2mil sub's cause of the LFD. They were wrong. That's the only point we were making.

You're sort of just going off on a strange and unrelated tangent...

 

Simce the second peak before Cata about September 2010 of 12 million subs and the constant downfall to September 2011 of a total of 10.3 million subs with another 1million+ subs lost over the next 3 months as reported by the BBC and with more 100+ thousand bleeding out still, perhaps that 2 million person was misplaced in the chart area.

 

I'm still wondering about those who have the "Annual Pass" and what they will decide, but this is because of the stubborn question, What is this cause. Is it the systems or features that have been added?

 

Is there a reason? Is it the abundance of tools, addons, macros, LFG, LFR, or something else? Just age? Or what the old community has become?

[chaosdefined]

Simce the second peak before Cata about September 2010 of 12 million subs and the constant downfall to September 2011 of a total of 10.3 million subs with another 1million+ subs lost over the next 3 months as reported by the BBC and with more 100+ thousand bleeding out still, perhaps that 2 million person was misplaced in the chart area.

 

I'm still wondering about those who have the "Annual Pass" and what they will decide, but this is because of the stubborn question, What is this cause. Is it the systems or features that have been added?

 

Is there a reason? Is it the abundance of tools, addons, macros, LFG, LFR, or something else? Just age? Or what the old community has become?

 

Please stop derailing the subject.

[Varus_Praetor]

My server is dead, same server LFG tool will be of marginal benefit. Way to half-*** it again BW. Unless 1.3 includes both LFG tool AND free server mergers/transfers, it will be pointless for most servers.

 

Cross server is the way to go. Some say it doesn't discourage poor behavior, but you can kick anyone and have a replacement quickly. Right now it doesn't matter how badly someone acts because you're so desperate to find people for your group you have to put up with the BS. There's no logical argument against cross server.

[Esproc]

Greetings,

 

We know that many players are interested in learning more about the upcoming dungeon finder tool. Principal Lead Systems Designer Damion Schubert talked a little about how the tool will work on the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ Official Podcast: Episode 1, "Rocket Boots". You can listen to what he had to say, starting

.

 

We hope this sheds some light on the issue. Thank you for your feedback!

 

 

Yeah.... I tried the link and it was the same one for the dev of 1.3 and what to expect. Sadly it was not very informative. I would really like some specifics if at all possible

[Wolfeisberg]

Like the 400k casuals and trial users who bailed on SW:TOR (as stated on the investors page), while the majority of us hardcore players are still playing and supporting this game?

 

That is because they didn't have the proper tools in place for the casual player in the first place, like a LFD finder tool.

[Suromir]

oh look more bad decisions by BioFail.

 

a server only LFG tool is pointless...and doesn't help DEAD servers.

 

idiotic..completely idiotic.

 

and save your breath..cross-server LFG brings more bonuses than negatives..FACT.

 

the reason you seemed to have seen it more is BECAUSE YOU WERE RUNNING MORE DUNGEONS...something you people against it can't seem to wrap your intellect around.

 

same-server? keep it Bio...and hire some new help...ones that will stop this train of bad decision making and failed design choices (Like Legacy...it warrants multiple alts, even of same class..yet server char slot limitations keep you from utilizing a HUUUGE portion of legacy)

 

BioFAIL

[Jaxarale]

Please stop derailing the subject.

 

+1 sir!

[Esproc]

Please stop derailing the subject.

 

With so many claims that the WoW LFG implemented in Patch 3,3,0 was the success of the rise in subscriptions, it was short lived if it did so. So what other purpose could cause this if it was not dissatisfied players with the lfg tool after the consequences of it use were made manifest?

[Frostvein]

Would anyone really be surprised to see this 6 hours before 1.3?

 

Hey everybody,

 

It is with great reluctance that I have to announce LFG will not be going live with Game Update 1.3: Allies. We had a fantastic run of testing on the Public Test Server and I can’t begin to thank the community enough for their tireless advocacy for this feature and the time people took to file bugs and voice their concerns.

 

After careful consideration, it is clear that to make LFG the feature we all want it to be is going to take a bit more time. I apologize for any disappointment this may cause and ask for your patience as we work to make sure the LFG launch is polished and fun. With more Legacy additions and Nightmare mode Operations, as well as many other amazing features of Game Update 1.3 ready to go, we're very excited for tomorrow's additions.

 

In the future we'll be rolling the LFG out in phases, listening carefully to player feedback and making adjustments as we go. The first phase will be single server only and from there we'll look at next steps as time progresses. In the meantime we have provided a way to get groups by simply flagging yourself as LFG in our current interface.

 

Daniel Erickson

Lead Game Designer

[chaosdefined]

With so many claims that the WoW LFG implemented in Patch 3,3,0 was the success of the rise in subscriptions, it was short lived if it did so. So what other purpose could cause this if it was not dissatisfied players with the lfg tool after the consequences of it use were made manifest?

 

Please quote the person who said this because so far, none of us have said this. You just keep saying that we did and then going off on these long, random posts...

[Varteras]

Cata released December 7, 2010 and the numbers were already dropping and there was no increase to this decline.

 

There was a patch 4.0.1 on October 12, 2010 that does correspond with the timeline of the start of the last and latest decline. Patch 4.0.1 which included the overhauling of the game's playing system. This included the overhaul of the talent system, major class changes, Reforging, new glyphs, point system for both PvE and PvP, UI updates, flexible Raid Lockout system, and improved graphics.

 

WoW hit its peak DURING Cataclysm not before it. The decline could be attributed to many things. To say that LFG was not responsible for the increase in subs after it was added to the game but to then imply that it was somehow responsible for the decline well after its addition is nothing more than fishing for false evidence.

 

How about the fact that Cataclysm, as far as content types, was a "more of the same" expansion? TBC added Arenas. WotLK added structured PvP Zones and a new class to boot (maybe not content but it was a huge deal). What did Cata bring?

 

-More dungeons. Fewer in total than each expansion prior and 4 of them were rehashes of old dungeons or raids.

 

-More raids. Again, fewer in total than each expansion before including number of boss encounters (30+ compared to 50+ in each expansion prior). Although none were rehashes nearly half of the bosses were available on Day 1 and raiders had to wait 7 months before new raid content was added. In a game heavily known for raiding forcing your players to wait more than half a year for new content after beating the crap out of the first tier is ridiculous.

 

-Two more Battlegrounds that were the exact same objective types we've had before and one of them was so similar to a previous BG that it was embarassing. Looking at you Twin Peaks. As a side note here, the fact that WoW has been around for well over 7 years and still only has 8 Battlegrounds blows my mind.

 

Then there was another PvP Zone added. Plus dailies and solo content as expected. Cataclysm was also a disappointment in the area of story. A very disjointed story with a terribly conceived villain who despite being this supposedly overwhelming presence was absent through most of the expansion save for the rare times he would show up, rawr at you and everyone in your zone, burn it, then leave. I have friends who are still playing that game and have yet to meet him that way.

 

The only thing that kept my old guild in that game from totally splitting after most of us took a very long break from that game (some of them still haven't returned) is the LFR they added afterwards that let's them run Dragon Soul to their heart's content. Not having to worry about someone else's schedule or someone else's loot ego thanks to the way loot is done. So they get to stay together as a guild of friends and still see the content. They still stick around and play together. It is all made much easier for them because they know that Battlegrounds, PvP Zones, Dungeons, and Raids are all just a button press or two away.

[chaosdefined]

Would anyone really be surprised to see this 6 hours before 1.3?

 

I think more likely we'll see Patch Notes saying

 

"Unfortunately as we had only put Patch 1.3 on the Test Servers for 2 days we are now having to take the servers down for 14 hours to fix everything we broke."

[Jederix]

LFD was the best thing WoW ever did.

 

I am not sure where all this community nonsense comes from. My guild met after the LFD and we are still playing the game today. Is that community?

 

Ex EQ players mostly, I'm guessing. They fail to realize that the only reason there was community in that game was because it was forced; couldn't do anything without a group.

 

Those days are gone, forced grouping is not what MMOs are about, despite complaints to the contrary.

 

Just like the LFD tool in WoW, single server won't be enough. It will make things better, but the queues will still be long and people will still complain. Then Bioware can get to work on the tool we need, the x-server tool.

 

It'll come, Bioware just needs to go through the motions just like WoW did when they were getting their tool fleshed out. I can wait.

[Wolfeisberg]

WoW lost 2M people when LFD came out, down to 10M. They gained another 2M when Cata was released.

 

 

Umm, that is not true at all. WoW kept on growing through Wrath of teh Lich King, that is when they reached the 12 million, and that is also when they introduced the cross server LFG tool. they lost 2 million some time after Cataclysm launched, not gained. there is no evidence that the cross server LFG did any harm to WoW, when in fact they kept on growing after it was introduced. Cataclysm changed the game up as compared to Wrath, and if anything that is what caused them to lose 2 million subscribers. Basically the end game wasn't as easy mode in Cataclysm as it was in Wrath, so the 2 million they gained during Wrath, they lost in Cataclysm because of that change.

[Gammawaves]

Single server LFG is so far the biggest dissapointment this game has given me so far.

Single server LFG only works if -

1) you play on the only two high pop servers this game has

2) you play at peak times

 

if you are like me and play the game in the morning like now or off peak times, there are 6 people online in my level range right now. So single server LFG is completely useless. I am also on a "standard" pop server and rarely ever see more than 30 people online in my level range. So once again, single server LFG is a failure even at peak times.

 

The only thing keeping me going sludging through single player questing was the hope of a cross server LFG tool so I could do some group content. I could care less which server they were on, just as long was I was playing with other people.

So since there will be no cross server LFG I have the choice of continuing to solo quest since the LFG will be of no use to me, or cancel my sub which I will probably end up doing.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Gammawaves

[Jaxarale]

With so many claims that the WoW LFG implemented in Patch 3,3,0 was the success of the rise in subscriptions,

No one ever said this... it is your delusions that are making this up... please use the link I provided for you...

 

it was short lived if it did so.

 

Not sure if 10 months is short lived... but that's open to personal opinions....

 

So what other purpose could cause this if it was not dissatisfied players with the lfg tool after the consequences of it use were made manifest?

 

So... it took 10 months for people to realize that people are douches?

Is that your claim?

 

Ill entertain your delusions for a moment...

 

What could of possibly made players dissatisfied and begin to unsub?

 

1. Content finished?

2. Burn out?

3. Stale game?

4. 4.0 Cataclysm? (epic fail)

5. 4.1 Rise of the Zandalari? (epic fail)

6. 4.2 Firelands? (epic fail)

7. 4.3 Hour of Twilight? (epic fail)

8. A 6 year old game?

9. PVP enbalance?

10. People sick of hearing... "patch xxx will fix it" and finally leaving after broken promises for years?

11. Ghostcrawler

12. Did I mention the lead designer that has no clue named Ghostcrawler?

13. Shared raid lock out system? ( I know this personally destroyed my guild)

 

I could continue but I think I have made the point?

 

Any or all of these things could cause the drop in subs... and in my opinion did... If your trying to tell us that LFG was the sole cause of the drop... well then I have a nice bridge in Florida I own... Ill sell it to ya cheap!

Edited May 10, 2012 by Jaxarale

[Jederix]

Like the 400k casuals and trial users who bailed on SW:TOR (as stated on the investors page), while the majority of us hardcore players are still playing and supporting this game?

 

Like the 400k hardcore and pvpers who baild on SW:TOR (as stated on the investors page), while the majority of us casual players are still playing and supporting this game?

 

See, aren't opinions fun (the game lost 400k subs; no where does it say these people are casual or trial users, you created that because you think that this is the case when you have as much of a clue as I do about the type of players who left).

[Frostvein]

Like the 400k hardcore and pvpers who baild on SW:TOR (as stated on the investors page), while the majority of us casual players are still playing and supporting this game?

 

See, aren't opinions fun (the game lost 400k subs; no where does it say these people are casual or trial users, you created that because you think that this is the case when you have as much of a clue as I do about the type of players who left).

 

Errr, it says specifically on the investors page that EAware thinks that they lost mostly causal players in that 400,000k.

 

Its a ridiculously inaccurate statement, but its there.

[Esproc]

Complete and utter lies.

 

If you're going to lie, please try and do it about something that can't be very easily researched.

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

 

As you can see, LFD was released in December 2009. Subscriptions actually rose and continued to rise until December 2010 when Cataclysm was released.

 

So please stop lying.

READ YOUR GRAPH

 

Here is a saying "As you can see, LFD was released in December 2009. Subscriptions actually rose and continued to rise".

 

Ask and yea shall find