Patch 1.3 Dungeon Finder

[Senatsu]

1.3 million is 'low subscriber'? LOL oh geez.

 

Maybe you should have finished reading the sentence.

[Xcelion]

The mistake Blizzard made was introducing dungeon finder in a game with 12 million subscribers, where finding groups took less time than traveling to the instance itself. SWTOR is the perfect target for it though because it has such a, relatively, low subscriber base and so many servers it becomes ridiculous. The only way for SWTOR to manage without an LFD type service would be by having massive server merges to the point where around 1/4th of the amount of servers will still be up and running, then the population density is high enough to heavily reduce the need for it.

 

I am an anti-LFD'er, but with SWTOR's current direction (i. e. BW's idiotic decisions) it desperately needs such a system to make it.

 

For some reason people look the WoW as the standard to which all games should be judged, because Blizzard did one thing correctly they catered to the right now generation and handed everything to them on a silver platter. Kudos on their part for taking the path of least resistance and doing that, but honestly I think Carebearing it also has the negative effect of making a childish and immature community. No one can deny that the WoW community is one of the worst out there, and I see these things happening here the more they carebear and give in to the me me me now now now kids.

[chaosdefined]

How many different kinds of casuals gamers are there, that supposedly make up the "majority of the gaming population"?

 

Well what EA classes as casual is, like they said, someone who only tries out a bit of a game and doesn't play it fully all the way through.

 

What we MMO players class as casual is someone who has a life and job etc outside and so doesn't have 4 hours every single night to commit to playing in a top end guild.

[chaosdefined]

For some reason people look the WoW as the standard to which all games should be judged, because Blizzard did one thing correctly they catered to the right now generation and handed everything to them on a silver platter. Kudos on their part for taking the path of least resistance and doing that, but honestly I think Carebearing it also has the negative effect of making a childish and immature community. No one can deny that the WoW community is one of the worst out there, and I see these things happening here the more they carebear and give in to the me me me now now now kids.

 

No, Blizzard realised that the majority of their gamers had jobs and social lives beyond their computer and so didn't have entire days to grind everything.

 

That's nothing to do with laze or self-entitlement. That's the way of life.

[amnie]

Maybe you should have finished reading the sentence.

 

oh believe me, I have, and I would have agreed with you if it wasn't for that lulzy comment

[Solo_Han]

I'm a ex-wow player and I loved wow back in the old days with the server community at his maximum.

 

Ahh yes... However, there is zero community on 95% of the servers... So, there's nothing to destroy.

 

This appeals to the casuals, I'm a casual, and it's who EA and BW want to attract. Hardcores will carry on playing regardless, only quitting when they get bored. People like myself are the casual, and the majority. We are fickle, and don't want to work to play the game the way we want to. We have little time to spend playing video games, and want to use that time to play, not spamming a chat channel.

 

Good move, but too late I fear. Dead servers will still face the same problem of no one to play with. If anything it will just divide dead servers of 60 players in total to trying to do WZ's and FP's, so people will cancel each other out, and no one will be able to do anything.

 

Oh well. Play EvE instead. At least CCP communicate with their customers on a daily basis.

[voidheart]

FP finder is ok you will get more party and you can do FP's. Why is that a bad thing? However i hope if you get a party you dont get teleported to the instance.

[Kualan]

Do we know if the Finder tool will be cross-server when it is launched, or in-server only?

[chaosdefined]

Do we know if the Finder tool will be cross-server when it is launched, or in-server only?

 

Single Server to begin with, but BW said they'll see how that and Cross-Server PVP goes before looking into Cross-Server PVE.

[Kualan]

Single Server to begin with, but BW said they'll see how that and Cross-Server PVP goes before looking into Cross-Server PVE.

 

Thanks for the quick reply! I suppose it is wise of them to be cautious, even a single server only tool is going to make it a lot easier for people to get on the PvE bandwagon (I know I for one will start doing more FPs once the tool is introduced instead of engaging almost exclusively in PVP).

[RachelAnne]

Welcome to an MMO. You know, Massively Multiplayer. Where you play with other people not just a small group on a small server.

 

The MMO term died with the LFG at wow.

 

I had a full friendlist at vanilla and tbc, I did not even add 1 player since the LFG was there. All that happens with an LFG is that people sit in the capital cities waiting for a dungeon to pop. Hardly anyone does still go out into the world... I did always wonder why Blizz put so much time and effort into redesigning the old world if all that people do is just ignore that content and queue 24/7 in that tool.

The world has become dry and empty, I dont see how this can be an MMO. For me wow is a Singleplayer today, nothing more.

 

End of the day, Cross-Server Group Finder has been successful for other MMO's that used it. How do I know it was successful?

 

I doubt something is successfull if players are forced to using it.

 

Fact is, if you dont use it you miss out badges and small gimmicks. You also have a workaround regarding the instance lock, as you can queue forever there while without it you cant do the dungeon more than once a day.

The deserter does also prevent you from leaving a group that you dont like.

 

All these things show how badly designed the tool is and that it is everything but successfull. The biggest mistake besides Arena that Blizz did to wow, it killed the game... there is a reason why subs went down at EU und US by a few million.

 

 

@ topic

 

I will try the tool but if its like at wow, where people ninja gear, where you get into dungeons that are almost finished, where elitist´s rule almost every group etc. I leave.

 

As a casual you just dont have fun then if people demand raid gear in every group, if people fail to understand that the gear that drops in that dungeon or raid is not the requirement but what people actually try to get in that dungeon..

 

I was just tired of that elitist behaivour where people expect & demand all the time, thats not playing a game for me - its a job and a job I have in RL so why have a second one in a game? There is no point, so all that "work" bla bla is silly.

 

As a Casual the tool was never a real improvement for me, as a tank you end up with such stupid people that, players that steal tank gear, that have a constant gogogogogog attitude or that just die always in fire, blaming the healer.

[chaosdefined]

The MMO term died with the LFG at wow.

Sometimes I wonder if you even understand yourself what you're saying. The term MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER did not die when WoW opened the doors between servers, so that EVERYONE in the game could group with each other.

 

 

 

I had a full friendlist at vanilla and tbc, I did not even add 1 player since the LFG was there. All that happens with an LFG is that people sit in the capital cities waiting for a dungeon to pop. Hardly anyone does still go out into the world... I did always wonder why Blizz put so much time and effort into redesigning the old world if all that people do is just ignore that content and queue 24/7 in that tool.

The world has become dry and empty, I dont see how this can be an MMO. For me wow is a Singleplayer today, nothing more.

Your opinion, no facts. Just speculation and assumption as you always provide.

 

 

I doubt something is successfull if players are forced to using it.

 

Fact is, if you dont use it you miss out badges and small gimmicks. You also have a workaround regarding the instance lock, as you can queue forever there while without it you cant do the dungeon more than once a day.

The deserter does also prevent you from leaving a group that you dont like.

 

All these things show how badly designed the tool is and that it is everything but successfull. The biggest mistake besides Arena that Blizz did to wow, it killed the game... there is a reason why subs went down at EU und US by a few million.

Yet again, nothing but your own speculation. Fact is when polled on different sites, the majority of WoW Players listed their reasons for quitting as "Bored with the content." nothing to do with LFG.

Nobody is forcing you to use LFG. NOBODY. You feel you have to use it, that's your own fault nobody elses.

 

Take some responsibility.

 

 

 

My responses in red.

[Senatsu]

My responses in red.

 

Actually he is absolutely right (the person you responded to). "Bored with the content" don't you think that reasoning has it's own reason for happening? Letting people queue again and again and again without lockouts makes the content stale and boring faster than any other reason. If you deny that, then you're just another naive and blind fanboy.

[Reevax]

People who oppose cross server FP finder fall into a few categories

 

1. They hate WoW and anything that WoW has, even if every single other MMO has said feature.

 

2. They are in a good guild and can run FPs when they want (i got mine mentality)

 

3. They don't run FPs and thus do not care.

 

A cross server FP tool would be the best thing that could happen to SWTOR. People being able to play when they want on their own schedules is 100% a good thing.

 

Whats funny is NO ONE would quit over a x-server tool, no matter what they say. Where as they are losing people right now because of not having it.

 

hmmmmm which group to focus on, hard choice im sure

[Senatsu]

People who oppose cross server FP finder fall into a few categories

 

1. They hate WoW and anything that WoW has, even if every single other MMO has said feature.

 

2. They are in a good guild and can run FPs when they want (i got mine mentality)

 

3. They don't run FPs and thus do not care.

 

A cross server FP tool would be the best thing that could happen to SWTOR. People being able to play when they want on their own schedules is 100% a good thing.

 

Whats funny is NO ONE would quit over a x-server tool, no matter what they say. Where as they are losing people right now because of not having it.

 

hmmmmm which group to focus on, hard choice im sure

 

WoW lost 2M people when LFD came out, down to 10M. They gained another 2M when Cata was released.

[Reevax]

WoW lost 2M people when LFD came out, down to 10M. They gained another 2M when Cata was released.

 

That is an absolute fabrication.

[chaosdefined]

Actually he is absolutely right (the person you responded to). "Bored with the content" don't you think that reasoning has it's own reason for happening? Letting people queue again and again and again without lockouts makes the content stale and boring faster than any other reason. If you deny that, then you're just another naive and blind fanboy.

 

Uh no actually, people are already complaining here that they're bored of the content too. So it's not related to the LFG.

[Sparklehorse]

A server only dungeon finder is a complete waste of time if it happens before server transfers.

 

I hope they are smarter than this.

[chaosdefined]

WoW lost 2M people when LFD came out, down to 10M. They gained another 2M when Cata was released.

 

Complete and utter lies.

 

If you're going to lie, please try and do it about something that can't be very easily researched.

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

 

As you can see, LFD was released in December 2009. Subscriptions actually rose and continued to rise until December 2010 when Cataclysm was released.

 

So please stop lying.

[Reevax]

Complete and utter lies.

 

If you're going to lie, please try and do it about something that can't be very easily researched.

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

 

As you can see, LFD was released in December 2009. Subscriptions actually rose and continued to rise until December 2010 when Cataclysm was released.

 

So please stop lying.

 

Thanks for that link, I was looking for it as well.

 

Its sad when people are so irrationally opposed to something they need to get on here and lie.

[Solo_Han]

1.3 million is 'low subscriber'? LOL oh geez.

 

People bang on and on about 1.3 million this, and 1.3 million that.

 

I don't work for BW, or EA, nor am I an investor in either company, so I don't give a crap about how many SUBSCRIBERS there are. I care about how many PLAYERS there are.

 

Around 180 servers, worldwide. Average server population at their peak time, is reckoned to be about 400-500 on the majority of servers (based on my own research across EU realms). That's an AVERAGE - Taking into account the highs and lows of all servers. Which means a:

 

Low of:

400 x 180 = 72,000 Playerbase

 

and a...

 

High of:

500 x 180 = 90,000 Playerbase

 

These are the numbers I care about... That's not a huge number.

 

EvE online has a much smaller subscription base, but houses one huge server, which averages between 35-45,000 playerbase at any one time. That's really healthy for the kind of game it is.

 

 

Talk about subscription figures all you want. Doesn't make it any less lonely, or any easier to get a group. I figure probably ~7% of subscribers opted for a 6-month subscription when the game came out, which would still be ongoing.

[Esproc]

Complete and utter lies.

 

If you're going to lie, please try and do it about something that can't be very easily researched.

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

 

As you can see, LFD was released in December 2009. Subscriptions actually rose and continued to rise until December 2010 when Cataclysm was released.

 

So please stop lying.

 

Actually, from the graph, it looks like 2009 was already the peak for WoW and started it's decline in 2009, rose at the start of 2010, and not in November of 2009, to peak back out iat November of 2010 and to consistently fall in subscriptions from there to the present state.

 

Present state is that there were 10.3 Million subscribers as of September 2011.

BBC shows another 3 month loss of over 1 Million subscribers and 100 thousand + more bleeding.

This is the combined U.S., EU, Asia, and Brazil($8) subs.

Also to be considered is those subscriptions which are locked in due to the yearly "Annual Pass" which gave an option for the MoP BETA and of course the D3 package.

[Esproc]

Actually he is absolutely right (the person you responded to). "Bored with the content" don't you think that reasoning has it's own reason for happening? Letting people queue again and again and again without lockouts makes the content stale and boring faster than any other reason. If you deny that, then you're just another naive and blind fanboy.

 

Yes, sheer boredom, in only a week or so.

 

May this make it through for the enlightenment of easy

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4857376042?page=1

 

Someone who tried something for somethings sake. Used a scroll of Resurrection

 

Seek and you can find the, well, different things on the net..

[chaosdefined]

Actually, from the graph, it looks like 2009 was already the peak for WoW and started it's decline in 2009, rose at the start of 2010, and not in November of 2009, to peak back out iat November of 2010 and to consistently fall in subscriptions from there to the present state.

 

Yes, and I said December not November. Know how December comes at the end of the year? So in December 2009 the LFD is released. There was no loss of 2m subscribers like that other poster lied, and in fact the fall began when Cataclysm came out.

[Esproc]

Yes, and I said December not November. Know how December comes at the end of the year? So in December 2009 the LFD is released. There was no loss of 2m subscribers like that other poster lied, and in fact the fall began when Cataclysm came out.

 

I never said there was a loss of 2 million subs. I just read off what I could make of the chart. As for November/December, my mistake, I was flipping back and forth for my typing and chart reading.

 

That said. It does not show that a lfg was anywhere in there for actually increasing the subscriptions. That falls under speculation. And also was probably another Christmas gift handed out to all the children and even loved ones. Which is as much a reason for it to climb in subs.