So everyone will use it... So everyone will use it... So everyone will use it... So most want it... I hear you can look them up on the inteweb... I hear you can whisper people in game... I hear you can check their progression to see how they are... I hear you can sit in on vent and listen to a raid or PVP before you join... There are tons of different ways to do what you say. I have missed the point... seems like you agree most all want it... everyone will use it once its here and the one point you make against it can be taken care of in 10 different ways... What was your argument again?

Thank you sir... @Esproc, bro... seriously stop trying to twist things to fit your lies... its not working and you have been called out on it more than once here already... just let it go... oh and use the link I provided for you, I promise they can help ya!

No one ever said this... it is your delusions that are making this up... please use the link I provided for you... Not sure if 10 months is short lived... but that's open to personal opinions.... So... it took 10 months for people to realize that people are douches? Is that your claim? Ill entertain your delusions for a moment... What could of possibly made players dissatisfied and begin to unsub? 1. Content finished? 2. Burn out? 3. Stale game? 4. 4.0 Cataclysm? (epic fail) 5. 4.1 Rise of the Zandalari? (epic fail) 6. 4.2 Firelands? (epic fail) 7. 4.3 Hour of Twilight? (epic fail) 8. A 6 year old game? 9. PVP enbalance? 10. People sick of hearing... "patch xxx will fix it" and finally leaving after broken promises for years? 11. Ghostcrawler 12. Did I mention the lead designer that has no clue named Ghostcrawler? 13. Shared raid lock out system? ( I know this personally destroyed my guild) I could continue but I think I have made the point? Any or all of these things could cause the drop in subs... and in my opinion did... If your trying to tell us that LFG was the sole cause of the drop... well then I have a nice bridge in Florida I own... Ill sell it to ya cheap!

+1 sir!

LOL talk about a reach for something to substantiate your failure to prove your point... during the first 10 months of LFG and subs go to 12 million... the content is consumed and people start un-subbing waiting for the next content patch or expac and you try and tie that drop to LFG? REALLY? I mean... REALLY? Wow... please use the link I provided bud... there is something terribly wrong somewhere...

Just copy and pasted your original post with my quote... as my quote can not be changed... go back and take a look to make sure I am not lying... still NOTHING showing I said LFG upped subs... I see me saying exactly what I said previous... that it shows it wasn't a craptastic failure... Not once did I day anything your alleging... I hear there are places you can get help, I have provided you a link, I hope you will get better and that I have helped you in some small way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Act

Unclear as to what is your point other than to throw some more numbers around to blur the point being made. The point was: We had a poster say LFG tool cost WOW 2 million subs... The evidence shows that when it was released in Dec 2009 subs were at 11 million The evidence shows that 6 months later at the half way point of the year subs were up to 11.75 mill The evidence shows that 10 months after the patch subs topped out at 12 million. There is clearly no 2 million loss in subs at all... much less because LFG was put in... Please try and stay on topic.

Not sure what your talking or to whom... you addressed me by name so I included my original post... I see no where that I said it was a fact LFG was responsible for a up in subs... I said the subs rose after lfg was instituted showing it was not a craptastic feature... were they other factors? Sure, new content, Christmas time, school breaks etc... No one has argued that and no one will... Please stop using my name and taking what I said and screwing it to be out of context... I did not say what you are alleging and I would appreciate it if you stopped using what I say as your pulpit...

Please go back and read the entire thread... I am commenting on the lie told that WoW lost 2 million subs due to the fact that they instituted a LFG tool... I just said its shows it wasn't a craptastic failure and it sure didnt cause 2 million subs to bail as the numbers for the time periods in questions went up 500k. Again, I dont care about why or how... I care about people lying through their teeth to fit their own agenda...

In December 2009 when it was introduced with patch 3.3 WoW subs went on to reach 12 million in the next 10 months... clearly showing it was a "craptastic failure".... When you misrepresent the truth so drastically, please insure that the facts can not be found by a simple google search... Huh? You said that LFG tool caused a 2million sub drop.. the graph shows not only that there was no drop between Dec 2009 when the tool was released until the end of 2010 when Cata was released... not only was there no 2million drop as you lie... there was a 1 million increase Now, who knows if it was lfg or ICC, and personally I dont care... However, your statement is a falsehood and its really getting old, people spreading sensationalistic stories about how horrid lfg is when it is a total and complete fabrication from start to finish. Sometimes its best to realized your busted and just walk away... now is one of those times.

Why did I get the image of my 5 yea old nephew crossing his arms, poking out his lip, and stomping his feet while trying his hardest to push out a crocodile tear when I read this... Gotta love the new gen MMOers....

Right now: 55 Light 65 Standard 1 Heavy 1 Very Heavy 1 Full I guess that is a majority...

Not so much, there is a lot of emotion tied up in this question and that makes it VERY complex... plus there are hundreds of differing opinions and then shades of grey on each opinion. Profiling people is dangerous, putting everyone in a group like this because your personal experience has been bad is a slippery slope. I have not come to that conclusion and I have been playing since Ruins of Kunark came out in EQ1. This is in great debate, many people have said that if you try and post xxx is a troll or ninja, or you say it in /trade in WoW... people either do not believe you, or you get accused of being one yourself. The only people that this really has effect on is your personal buddys that you run with. This is open to huge debate also. I know many people that dont care at all about loot and if you need on something and ninja it... they just want to run with competent people and get dungeons done to get valor. Again a very dangerous statement... no proof of this is in evidence, this is your personal observation. Saying someone is more likely to harass someone due to a LFG tool? Wow... The problem with this is many people do not care about a community and just want to play the game. Many do not see a community at all, they see themselves mindlessly doing /tank LF Flashpoint xyz... and getting no group and logging off. Another VERY subjective point... If you are a very casual player then yes, this statement may be true, if you take the game a bit more seriously... applications and vent interviews are not only the norm... but just the beginning of being able to join a guild. This is where it seems the point is made, everything else kind of falls by the wayside... if you cant get a group and cant do content... you wont stay subbed for this game and you will never meet people to begin with. Yet another very dangerous idea... forcing people to do anything almost like cutting your own throat... people pay money to play how they want to play... not how they are dictated to play. That being said there is enough forced on us as is, and enough options taken away as is, it would be best not to add another one. Very good point, I agree 100% and I think this is where the pro LFG people are standing... they just want to do content and cant with how things are now... for whatever reason, be it low pop server, anti social fleet, no one on planets... whatever the problem is. I agree again, I have 2 50's and neither saw a FP past Black Talon on the way to 50... and trust me, I looked. I have played every FP with my Jedi Consular because I rolled her on Fatman (by far the highest pop server)

Sorry, i forgot the word "automated" lfg... I think you know what I meant, and they did say they would not do a lfg queue... splitting hairs is fun isnt it? Combat logs would like to have a word with you, as would the lfg queue incoming in 1.3... Huh? I never said peoples opinions were lies... I said they do not matter because the company has to make money... people and devs can say all they want... it means nothing when EA cracks the whip...

No, people have explained why they think x-server lfg is bad... and there is no proof corroborating what they have said... I find it reasonable that they have had bad experiences with LFG, we all have to some extent or another... but to come here and say it "ruins the entire game" and "destroys communities" .... there is nothing "reasonable" about those sensationalistic claims. I love passive aggressive attacks like that... takes me back to Psychology 110 in college! Lets see, we were taught that if you take this type of P/A attack and turn a single key word 180 degrees you too can make the same argument but in the reverse... lets try. People have already explained why cross-server group finder is great on the forums. For reasonable people with common sense, they will understand it. For unreasonable people who don't listen to anyone but themselves, no amount of "explaining" will convince them. I win?

Yeah... they said those same things about combat logs, you know the ones in game now? they said the same thing about x-server PVP queues, you know the ones going in at 1.3? they said the same thing about same server LFG tool, you know the one going in at 1.3? You seeing a trend here? The minor QQ about this stuff (and the x-server LFG) means nothing to BW, they are a business and have to make money. When the overwhelming majority of the player base wants something... they get it or the company goes bust. Economics 101 is now over... I think you guys may be the ones with the closed eyes or deluding yourself... changes are here, changes BW swore would NEVER be added to this game... and more are coming, holding to your "purity of the game" mantra is commendable but worthless when money is involved.

Is that the 1 or 2 mobs that you can now hit with 1 pulse then they are knocked out of this great ability? Or is it the fail PVPers that seem to not be able to see the tiny red thingy on the ground and move 1/10th of a inch to avoid it? Just change it back to exactly how it was... if its not broken dont fix it... That is why SWTOR is failing... changing things that do not need to be changed and ruining the fun for the majority of people.

Grats on being left alone by the other team to dps the whole time... I've noticed I am practically ignored in WZ's now as I have no burst, I am not perceived as a threat by many and am last on the priority list... they actually sit there and heal through the damage... Any class that never gets pressure and can sit and turret will achieve top numbers... It takes skill to spam TM till Unload procs? wow... yes BH is so hard now... not sure what the "now" is about... its the same priority it was but with a few more unload procs... actually since HSM is so suck and the debuff so buggy... its really not worth it to even use it so actually the "new and improved" arsenal priority is even easier... 3 shots instead of 4... lulz... Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal....

ehhh... you really never read the patch notes did ya? The extra items were given to the role that was least represented in the queue... Most always tanks and sometimes healers because they were constantly in short supply and making queues for dps too long... That problem was caused by the Wrath babies that didn't want the responsibility of trying to tank or heal and just mindlessly wanted to blow their loads as dps on runs... I met literally hundreds of dps that had tank offspecs but refused to tank because threat was all jacked up in Cata till they buffed it... They also stated they would give bonus valor because they wanted to promote grouping by using the LFD tool... its kind of like how Swtor gives bonus exp when grouped. Actually the exact opposite is true. We elitists wouldn't use it because we would do speed runs for valor points with guildies and couldn't be bothered with the lesser players... you have your facts completely backwards on this one...

Fixed that for ya. The shell that now is so heat prohibitive to cast you can only use it pre pull?? Ya thats a nice ability.... Nerfed Sorc bubble > RA You mean pre 1.2 right? All of those abilities are craptastic at best now and soc and ops out do them AND bring aoe raid healing... something we just can not do effectively. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal...

Its not the tool, its the tools... Wow that was kinda good! The server only queues that are moving to x-server queues in 1.3?

lolololol... so x-server LFD causes all this EVILNESS and its spread here to Swtor YET there is no xserver LFD in this game.............. WOW that is amazing that the cause of jerkiness is the Xserver LFD and its happening in this game but there is no LFD... Kinda shot your load on that one?? You just destroyed your entire argument with that one sentence... and it didn't take anyone but you to do destroy your own argument.

No I do not think you did... 5 mobs are way way way too spread out to even come close to hitting 3 of them much less all 5... You could of ran through them and around a building or other wall to get them grouped up... but when you do that the minimum range of it does not allow you to use it... Stop posting falsehoods... we all know that the mob bunches of 3's are too loose for DFA in its new state trying to go up to pretend you did 5 is hilarious at best and demeaning at worst... nice try tho. I will let others debate if its a nerf or just a fix on the area... what I do KNOW for a fact.. is this: They changed the type damage it does from elemental (ignores armor) to kinetic (armor mitigates) so for no other reason but this... its a nerf... Some would call it a stealth nerf seeing as BW did not announce it was doing this nor did have they acknowledged that they did this even though it has been asked several times... of course if we do get an answer they will say it was doing kinetic all along.. and since we had no combat logs... we can not prove they are lying.

It did? When LFG was released in December 2009 subs went up to the highest point ever for WoW in the following 10 months to 12.5 million... I'm not a math major but it sure looks like the facts say it did the exact opposite of what you claim... LOL... now that is priceless!! The guy ranting and raving about using the LFG tool as is.... meanwhile its been scrapped by the gaming company already and your calling me a fool... Hey pot? Meet kettle... It really gets no better than this! Think we have exhausted any real content in this thread... it was pretty good for 60 pages or so... until people had to start tossing around personal insults and name calling. Thanks for the fun debate guys and gals!

It cant... It never has... It never will... They are now just arguing for the sake of arguing... You seem to lack the logic that there is already an automated LFG coming in 1.3... you keep on and keep on running this same exact thing through the wash... IT DOESNT MATTER.. the current LFG is being scrapped!!! Get it? Got it? Good! Again... no proof whatsoever of this claim anywhere at all... ever. The company that put out the game and is making billions a year thinks it did wonders too... your disagreement means nothing in the big picture.