Patch 1.3 Dungeon Finder

[MbaxterBeau]

They add a cross server LFG tool and you guys can use it but I'm sticking to running stuff with people on my server. I want to be able to show kindness to other players and have fun playing the game and avoid the community that world of restarts has.

[chaosdefined]

 

That said. It does not show that a lfg was anywhere in there for actually increasing the subscriptions. That falls under speculation. And also was probably another Christmas gift handed out to all the children and even loved ones. Which is as much a reason for it to climb in subs.

 

You don't need to speculate when something had a release date:

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_3.3.0

[Katahn]

Just because something is popular, it doesn't mean it is actually good for you. Lots of people like cigarettes and they sell very well, but that doesn't stop them from having all manner of really negative consequences. Opposition to cross-server for some of us is based on the correlation of "cross server LFG" and a loss of server community and/or people just standing around waiting for a group pop and determine there may very well be some causation there. We may be wrong, it could just be coincidence, but I'd rather make sure we've tried everything else before we resort to cross-server for PvE.

 

I'm not necessarily opposed to cross-server LFG if it was built in such a way as to essentially create four "meta servers" (one for each playstyle type the individual servers had) - so we would continue to group with people who shared our preference for server-type. If that isn't in there, then why bother having server types to begin with? I also want to be able to friend whoever I group with, and specifically the character not the account. I want to be able to form groups with them without the tool. I want to be able to join their guilds without rerolling and without having to pay for a transfer (or have them join mine). In essence, if it turned into a sort of virtual "super server merge" I'm cool with it because I can still build that friends list and eventually stop needing to find random people all the time. That's how I define "great community".

[matzackjones]

Just because something is popular, it doesn't mean it is actually good for you. Lots of people like cigarettes and they sell very well, but that doesn't stop them from having all manner of really negative consequences. Opposition to cross-server for some of us is based on the correlation of "cross server LFG" and a loss of server community and/or people just standing around waiting for a group pop and determine there may very well be some causation there. We may be wrong, it could just be coincidence, but I'd rather make sure we've tried everything else before we resort to cross-server for PvE.

 

I'm not necessarily opposed to cross-server LFG if it was built in such a way as to essentially create four "meta servers" (one for each playstyle type the individual servers had) - so we would continue to group with people who shared our preference for server-type. If that isn't in there, then why bother having server types to begin with? I also want to be able to friend whoever I group with, and specifically the character not the account. I want to be able to form groups with them without the tool. I want to be able to join their guilds without rerolling and without having to pay for a transfer (or have them join mine). In essence, if it turned into a sort of virtual "super server merge" I'm cool with it because I can still build that friends list and eventually stop needing to find random people all the time. That's how I define "great community".

 

I read your post and it made me want to go have a ciggie. You murderer

[Esproc]

You don't need to speculate when something had a release date:

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_3.3.0

 

Contains a NEW PATCH ( Patch_3.3.0) Which INCLUDES Icecrown Citadel, you know, New Content, which brings in players to do the content, not just a lfg system.

 

There are players and guilds that leave games and go back to them just to do the new content that comes out with patches.

 

So no, that does not explain LFG as being what increased the subscription rate.

 

And as I pointed out, Christmas is a time of people giving gifts, and WoW/X-packs are considered a gift, or even time cards. This also explains a possibility as to the increase and then the steady decline of subscriptions.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Esproc

[chaosdefined]

Contains a NEW PATCH ( Patch_3.3.0) Which INCLUDES Icecrown Citadel, you know, New Content, which brings in players to do the content, not just a lfg system.

 

There are players and guilds that leave games and go back to them just to do the new content that comes out with patches.

 

So no, that does not explain LFG as being what increased the subscription rate.

 

And as I pointed out, Christmas is a time of people giving gifts, and WoW/X-packs are considered a gift, or even time cards. This also explains a possibility as to the increase and then the steady decline of subscriptions.

 

Never said it was the reason for the increase, I was just proving that there was no loss of 2million subscribers right after the Cross-Server LFD came in, like that person was trying to say.

[Senatsu]

Nice, being called a liar for being right. Nice one fanboys.

 

You could see it yourself in that graph: There is a point on 2010 and then there is a point at Q3 end/Q4 beginning in 2010. There is no point in between. Cataclysm was launched around the time of that Q3/Q4 point. Without any points in between there is no way of knowing that LFD raised subscription numbers at all, rather, it was Cata launch that made it rise. It's obvious that Cata launch is the logical conclusion to that rise in subs, unless ofc, Cata launch made people leave instead which is even more illogical.

[Benagain]

I support the LFG tool, and hope it will be cross realm.

 

People can say the dungeon finder tool killed WoW, but I just logged in the other night and it seems to be doing quite well for a game so old.

 

The people claiming that the LFG tool kills the community have no real evidence to support their claim. I met several people who were befriended using the dungeon finder. If this tool kills the community, then how it is I tend to meet new people when using it?

 

My theory is that elitist want to feel special, and that they accomplished something that us casual players cannot. If the dungeon finder comes out, then soon everyone else will be able to group up, and work on the grind to end game gear. A few months or so down the road, and everyone will have the same quality gear, and the elitists will complain that they’re not special anymore.

 

I could be very wrong as I am quite a lot, but I’m left with no other assumptions to make as the claim “it will kill the community” is a myth. You can most certainly stay friends with your existing group, and now meet new players in minutes without having to sit in chat for hours spamming “DPS LFG”.

[chaosdefined]

Nice, being called a liar for being right. Nice one fanboys.

 

You could see it yourself in that graph: There is a point on 2010 and then there is a point at Q3 end/Q4 beginning in 2010. There is no point in between. Cataclysm was launched around the time of that Q3/Q4 point. Without any points in between there is no way of knowing that LFD raised subscription numbers at all, rather, it was Cata launch that made it rise. It's obvious that Cata launch is the logical conclusion to that rise in subs, unless ofc, Cata launch made people leave instead which is even more illogical.

 

You're a bit delusional aren't you?

You're not right, I proved that you were wrong.

Please learn to read graphs properly.

[Jaxarale]

The whole reason the LFG tool in WoW was such an annoying craptastic failure was because people realized there were almost no repercussions with being douchey to your group.

In December 2009 when it was introduced with patch 3.3 WoW subs went on to reach 12 million in the next 10 months... clearly showing it was a "craptastic failure"....

 

When you misrepresent the truth so drastically, please insure that the facts can not be found by a simple google search...

 

There is a point on 2010 and then there is a point at Q3 end/Q4 beginning in 2010. There is no point in between

 

Huh? You said that LFG tool caused a 2million sub drop.. the graph shows not only that there was no drop between Dec 2009 when the tool was released until the end of 2010 when Cata was released... not only was there no 2million drop as you lie... there was a 1 million increase

 

Now, who knows if it was lfg or ICC, and personally I dont care... However, your statement is a falsehood and its really getting old, people spreading sensationalistic stories about how horrid lfg is when it is a total and complete fabrication from start to finish.

 

Sometimes its best to realized your busted and just walk away... now is one of those times.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Jaxarale

[Esproc]

In December 2009 when it was introduced with patch 3.3 WoW subs went on to reach a record 12.5 million in the next 10 months... clearly showing it was a "craptastic failure"....

 

When you misrepresent the truth so drastically, please insure that the facts can not be found by a simple google search...

 

Please note that what you state as fact is not even proven as the cause of the effect.

 

Patch 3.3.0 was the release of New Content such as Icecrown Citadel, which brings gamers back to do the new content, and the Christmas holidays that entails such things as gifts which include both games and game cards.

 

A possibility is not a fact, but a mere conjecture.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Esproc

[Varteras]

Like the 400k casuals and trial users who bailed on SW:TOR (as stated on the investors page), while the majority of us hardcore players are still playing and supporting this game?

 

I think you're confusing casual/hardcore investment with casual/hardcore playtime and perspective. There is most definitely a difference. There are casual players who invest hardcore into a game by playing it over a very long time and yet their playtime within a given span is not considerable. Yet there are hardcore players who invest casually into games. Popping in, playing, then leaving for the next game. They are not hardcore subscribers to the game. They are just hardcore players in general for how much they play in a given timeframe regardless of which game they happen to be on. The investor call was referring to people who only did the trial but didn't commit to the game and the people who (regardless of how much they played the crap out of the game) put in a single-month of paid playtime and then left. I have a friend who is a hardcore MMO player but he casually invests in them. He'll leave, play other MMOs until he is bored with them too, come back and play for awhile more only to leave again. Either because he got bored again or the "next big thing" came out.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Varteras

[chaosdefined]

Please note that what you state as fact is not even proven as the cause of the effect.

 

Patch 3.3.0 was the release of New Content such as Icecrown Citadel, which brings gamers back to do the new content, and the Christmas holidays that entails such things as gifts which include both games and game cards.

 

A possibility is not a fact, but a mere conjecture.

 

Like I said, we're not stating it was the sole reason for the subs rising, we're just proving that just because some individuals didn't like it didn't make it a failure.

[Avrid]

As long as its never cross server it show be ok. Never played wow didnt like it no matter how many time my friends tried to make me play. One of the reasons was the lack of global channels like they have in everquest 2. And i think it was a big mistake for swtor to follow wow in this because in order to find a group you are at the moment litterally forced to sit in the zone of the objective you want o tryand get a group.

Sure you can flag yourself lfg and all. That has gotten me 1 (one) invite to a group since i have started playingthegame.yup when im looking to do something i docheck to see if anyone is flagged. But th e lfg flag seems to not be used by almost anyone.6

So without a global chat i am basicaaly required to sit in the fleet spamming for group to do fps andplay angry birds on my phone, or go do something else and forget about the flashpoints.

[Jaxarale]

Please note that what you state as fact is not even proven as the cause of the effect.

 

Please go back and read the entire thread... I am commenting on the lie told that WoW lost 2 million subs due to the fact that they instituted a LFG tool... I just said its shows it wasn't a craptastic failure and it sure didnt cause 2 million subs to bail as the numbers for the time periods in questions went up 500k.

 

Again, I dont care about why or how... I care about people lying through their teeth to fit their own agenda...

[Esproc]

Like I said, we're not stating it was the sole reason for the subs rising, we're just proving that just because some individuals didn't like it didn't make it a failure.

 

My comment was to Jaxarale who is quite clear in stating factually that the increase was due to LFG. It is clearly not proven, and the forums on WoW about the haters on the LFG system are just like too many of the forums here, sadly.

 

It is not clear exactly why the rise in subscriptions occurred as there are many circumstances at the same time.

 

There are plenty of people on the WoW forums who have had bad experiences with the runs they did, people complaining about the problems with the decline of their guilds, and more, but again, there are those that like the system and others that have good runs.

 

Some claim it killed communities, some sat it ruined some of the gameplay, others have had no problems or have not seen any. You know forums

 

Perhaps it is all just due to the days we live in and the general lack of manners and etiquette that were once a part of society. The internet brings about anonymity and the LFG brings even more as you can not personally vouch for someone as you could if they were on the same server as you.

[Jaxarale]

In December 2009 when it was introduced with patch 3.3 WoW subs went on to reach a record 12.5 million in the next 10 months... clearly showing it was a "craptastic failure"....

 

Not sure what your talking or to whom... you addressed me by name so I included my original post... I see no where that I said it was a fact LFG was responsible for a up in subs... I said the subs rose after lfg was instituted showing it was not a craptastic feature... were they other factors? Sure, new content, Christmas time, school breaks etc... No one has argued that and no one will...

 

Please stop using my name and taking what I said and screwing it to be out of context... I did not say what you are alleging and I would appreciate it if you stopped using what I say as your pulpit...

[Synzer]

They add a cross server LFG tool and you guys can use it but I'm sticking to running stuff with people on my server. I want to be able to show kindness to other players and have fun playing the game and avoid the community that world of restarts has.

 

That's good for you and if it works for you, I have no problem with it. Maybe you have good luck, maybe I have bad luck, but since I started playing I have found it hard to find groups for flashpoints. Mix that with the fact that I have to sit on the fleet and spam chat till MAYBE I find another person that wants to do it and we spend 30 minutes looking for one person before giving up. I hate to see how this is like on low pop servers.

 

When it all comes down to it, it doesn't hurt the game in anyway, it only helps. For one, all the flashpoints are on the fleet, so you can't give that excuse of taking away from the exploration of the game. If anything it helps because now I can spend my time traveling to other planets while I wait for my queue and don't have to sit on the fleet. I can spend my time enjoying the game, while at the same time, doing flashpoints. I see no problem here.

 

LFD for this game does not make a bad community or lazy people. It makes doing flashpoints actually feasible for a lot of people. People are going to be lazy and rude whether or not they add a LFD tool or not. Sure you get people that don't care because they aren't on your server, but so what. My purpose is to get into flashpoints and complete them. This will improve my chances of that happening exponentially.

[TheOnlyKyrenS]

I approve because it isn't cross server. We'll see how this goes and maybe people will come back.

[Esproc]

Cata released December 7, 2010 and the numbers were already dropping and there was no increase to this decline.

 

There was a patch 4.0.1 on October 12, 2010 that does correspond with the timeline of the start of the last and latest decline. Patch 4.0.1 which included the overhauling of the game's playing system. This included the overhaul of the talent system, major class changes, Reforging, new glyphs, point system for both PvE and PvP, UI updates, flexible Raid Lockout system, and improved graphics.

[scerviche]

oh yeah single server lfg will help me out with my 20 people on fleet server!

 

It will fail and BW will see that still no one is running there content and then they will do the smart thing and make it cross realm, then i will be happy.

 

Also WTB cross realm warzones thx.

Edited May 10, 2012 by scerviche

[chaosdefined]

Cata released December 7, 2010 and the numbers were already dropping and there was no increase to this decline.

 

There was a patch 4.0.1 on October 12, 2010 that does correspond with the timeline of the start of the last and latest decline. Patch 4.0.1 which included the overhauling of the game's playing system. This included the overhaul of the talent system, major class changes, Reforging, new glyphs, point system for both PvE and PvP, UI updates, flexible Raid Lockout system, and improved graphics.

 

What exactly is your point?

[Jaxarale]

Cata released December 7, 2010 and the numbers were already dropping and there was no increase to this decline.

 

Unclear as to what is your point other than to throw some more numbers around to blur the point being made.

The point was:

 

We had a poster say LFG tool cost WOW 2 million subs...

The evidence shows that when it was released in Dec 2009 subs were at 11 million

The evidence shows that 6 months later at the half way point of the year subs were up to 11.75 mill

The evidence shows that 10 months after the patch subs topped out at 12 million.

 

There is clearly no 2 million loss in subs at all... much less because LFG was put in...

 

Please try and stay on topic.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Jaxarale

[Esproc]

Not sure what your talking or to whom... you addressed me by name so I included my original post... I see no where that I said it was a fact LFG was responsible for a up in subs... I said the subs rose after lfg was instituted showing it was not a craptastic feature... were they other factors? Sure, new content, Christmas time, school breaks etc... No one has argued that and no one will...

 

Please stop using my name and taking what I said and screwing it to be out of context... I did not say what you are alleging and I would appreciate it if you stopped using what I say as your pulpit...

 

Considering I quoted your post for the reply about the "craptastic feature" which was being discussed, which was LFG, and commented on it as you come across stating that not only was the person being responded to wrong, but very wrong about it, and now you have edited your post so that is is different from what I quoted (The Whole Of Your then Current Post) to reflect a different post with more flesh than the bare "You're wrong so I'm right" post that it was.

 

Also, you edited in the " .. I said the subs rose after lfg was instituted showing it was not a craptastic feature... were they other factors? Sure, new content, Christmas time, school breaks etc... No one has argued that and no one will..." after I had fully quoted you.

 

So when I was discussing this already and you still chose a post you could try to pull a rabbit from, well, as I commented to another, you re-edited for a better light.

 

When you hit "quote" it starts with your full quote and I just replied. Now I would have to cut out what I myself had been saying to edit your post to what it was.

 

At least you may be learning that there is more to this than it was just this or that which created so and such an effect.

[Esproc]

What exactly is your point?

 

That it appears that Cata was the least in influencing the changes in subs at the time, by the chart. Perhaps not the patch prior to Cata release.

 

But if not the Patch 4.0.1 then something else was the leading cause of the drop in subs. Something like a feature? or people finishing content and moving on?