What's Killing SWTOR?

[SeloDaoC]

Server merges wont change much. The fundamental problem with SWToR is still there.

Ive never played an mmo that sucks your will to play away as fast as SWToR.

 

Although its not easy for mmo companies, people expect more and more, while voiceovers are neat idea, its severly lacking in gameplay variation. Pretty much everything you do feels exactly the same, the only differance is the name over your enemies head. Everything from combat to crafting is severly lacking compared to other mmos.

 

I think, like i suspected before playing the game, that i also prefer fantasy setting before scifi

[ipeka]

The problem is quite fundemental, the subscription fee. 14,99 is exactly the monthly price for WoW's, which baffles me a whole load for new game.

I mean , why would you want to copy the exact fee from another company ? When you decided to stamp your fee at the exactly same price as your competitor , you are in a way are expected to follow the same level of quality from your competitor.

I am not saying TOR is low in quality , but you are competing against a product that had been round the market for a decade and the company still in a way developing .

[Darkulous]

Lack of features is killing this game. The loss of casuals proves that. Hardcore players need continous content. Casuals need features.

 

This is a Theme Park MMO? This game is for casuals? I see these posts all the time and yet casuals made up for most of the subscription losses.

 

This game even lacks the small features. Shift clicking an item to the search bar on the GTN is a small feature. Right-clicking a player on your Guild roster and getting more than 2 choices is a feature. Seriously, I can't whisper someone from the Guild roster?

 

The absence of so many small and large features in this game is baffling.

[Sakerr]

Ok one chain of replies about DAOC caused me to set something straight.

 

DAOC is like 10 years old. Has never received a graphics upgrade(unlike anarchy online) and STILL 25000 players play it regularly. Think about that. Thats about 10 swtor servers of people still playing a 10 year old game that only suffers from graphics being dated.

 

The class system is fun. The rvr is unmatched with any other game. And even as a 10 year old game it could handle 100s of people fighting in the same area, swtor can barely handle 36.

 

No I am not going to go back to playing it. I left it back then because I wanted something different. But do not knock the game itself. Mechanically it was sound and the rvr point system still hasn't been copied to any real success. It was a great idea, and is still a great idea. It had unique classes(like animist) who could grief like no other class in any mmo.

 

<other text>

 

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About DAoC, was Mythic supposed to give an overhaul to DAoC but EA after they bought Mythic axed it ? I think i rememeber Mytic saying they would give more love to DAoC but after the transaction i did not heard about it anymore

[xxWargodxx]

I'm still subbed (at least through Aug 20) and am part of a fairly large and great guild that has been together for more than ten years and 4 MMOs (soon to be 5). The reason I say this is the most fun I have now is running end game to gear up guildmates than anything else. I am finding hard to keep going for things for myself, but why?

 

What I can put my finger on is this:

 

1.) The game is way, way to linear for an MMO. Even at level 50 we have a linear path of Dailies for mods, HMs for gear while continuing dailies for relics and earpieces, Raids for more gear to then run a Tier 2 raid for more gear. The whole game is an amazingly narrow linear path. While class stories change this, there is only so many times one can ride the same roller coaster before it starts to wear on you.

 

2.) I'm going to say this even though I dread too, but it is the subject in a lot of vent chat quite often. BioWare really is looking like they don't know what they are doing with an MMO. From the messed up PvP, lack of basic MMO features, limited character customization, increasing numbers of bugs introduced with each update (they keep breaking more than their fixing), lack of endgame non-linear tasks and collectibles (mini-games, social games, ship customization, etc.) and rather rudimentary guild support.

 

3.) They are losing one of their most important customers - the guildmasters. Apparently, BW doesn't realize that losing the interest of GMs frequently will lose you a lot of the guild. Guilds are our online community for many and many don't care what MMO we play as long as the guild is together.

 

4.) Patch 1.2 had so much excitement going in and so much disappointment after deployment. The costs they put on legacy stuff was, quite frankly not well thought out. MMO players can detect a BS grind when they see it and the prices put on most of the stuff and the legacy armor is exactly that - an artificial high grind for no other purpose than to keep players playing. But you know what this does instead? From day one players say it is not worth it and don't even attempt it. So the effect is usually the opposite. In addition, the Lost Island FP and Denova Story Mode is WAY overtuned versus the rewards. I have to be full Columi/Rakata geared to attempt the robot boss in Lost Island for what purpose? To get a piece of Columi gear. That is just plain stupid. Likewise, story mode raids are for learning the raid to then attempt it in HM or NM. Not getting wiped thirty times trying to learn the first two bosses. Lastly, the last minute pull of ranked PvP with NO mention whatsoever of when it can be expected cost quite a few players too.

 

5.) June 20th will mark six months since launch and many of the raids are still bugged. Enough said on this.

 

6.) Broken items from start that now can't balance the game. From bugs for gaining more valor, to launching in pahses giving others a chance to get to 50 first, etc. It has thrown the balance out in PvP and still hasn't recovered.

 

7.) Mirrored classes that aren't really mirrored. Argue this all you want, I play both sides and the classes have NEVER been truly mirrored and the favoritism for the Empire is still there, even today. Just look at what Empire gets for legacy heroic moments versus republic for just one example. As a result of this PvP, especially, is still frequently a one-sided affair.

 

8.) And speaking of PvP, the CC in this game is out of control and NO BioWare, resolve did NOT fix it. Nothing POs PvP players more than getting stun locked to the point of not being able to do anything and then dying. It is not fun, it is not conducive to keeping players interested in the game, and nothing angers people more than this one mechanic.

 

I'd really like to see them keep this going. There are parts I enjoy in the game. But, I will be honest, I just don't think they have the capability to do it. Not the resources, but the actual ability to do it. Many will bear down on me for this, but I want this game to go for a long time and I am just putting out there what I know many are feeling deep down.

 

That's the exact post I've been wanting to make for a while, completely spot on.

[silent_poet]

I believe I am not saying anything that someone else hasn't said already, just want to chip in my 2 cents.

 

The main problem i have with SWTOR is that we are - for all obvious reasons other than it not being oficially labeled so - playing a paid for beta. At least that what it feels like quite often.

 

The lack of (endgame-)content people complain about? The incredible number of bugs you encounter? The "still a work in progress"-feeling you get when ist comes to (50s-)PvP? The already mentioned lack of certain "basic" features?

 

All trademarks of beta versions. It feels like playing on a construction site.

 

Another 6 months in developement instead of desperately trying to make the Christmas sales might verly likely have done true miracles for the game.

 

 

 

And despite all this, i still play the game (yet...). Why? Because i'm a storyline fanatic and credit where credit is due, the class stories are great.

But wth 1.2 they actually managed to take that away for me too. I'm one of those unlucky guys that have their client crash after almost every conversation of the main story arc. Granted, it happens not on every planet. Corellia appears to work fine, so does Dromund Kaas. But Tatooine? Voss? Forget it.

 

 

So right now im thinking: next time, stick to the single player games from Bioware. I get the great story without a monthly fee and most of the time a much less bugged out game.

[diamondking]

Unrealized expectations are what is killing SWTOR. The vast majority of us expected (going all the way back to when it was announced) this game to blow us out of the water, to have every thing that we want in a game, and to forever scratch our itch for a place to call our virtual home. The reality is, no games can do that anymore. Our desire for every game to be perfect leads us to assumptions that games fail and that the game is dying. We will never be satisfied and will continue to look forward to the next biggest thing b/c surely there is a game out there that can make the emptiness go away.

 

While that's the truth of the matter, there are some specific reasons that the average person doesn't log in. Each of us has their own. For me it's two things: lack of a true solo pvp experience at endgame. Premades will rule the day until cross-server queuing hits, and maybe even after that if the queue pool continues to shrink. Secondly, I'm player capped on the server I've built my legacy on. I'd gladly roll more alts, but I don't care to start all over again on a new server.

 

Part of this is also my fault (and many of yours I imagine). I simply consumed content too fast. The game isn't even 4 &1/2 months old yet I've burned myself out. I wasn't smart about striking a good balance of game play with real life. As I mentioned in another thread: we don't go to the movie theater & watch all the movies at once. Why are we maxing out our free time on one game?

 

So I've begun to pace myself. I'm willing to let the game grow while I do other things. I know my wife, my dog, and my health are appreciating my decision.

 

Very insightful post. I was a long time raider in wow, did everything, 7 days a week, all my spare time went to that. Raiding felt more of a chore or a job, than a pleasure the last year.

 

Star Wars I have taken a casual approach to. I have loads to do in this game still, but I don't play my "normal" 8-10 hours a day no more.

 

And I'm thrieving in here.

Edited May 9, 2012 by diamondking

[Darkulous]

2.) I'm going to say this even though I dread too, but it is the subject in a lot of vent chat quite often. BioWare really is looking like they don't know what they are doing with an MMO. From the messed up PvP, lack of basic MMO features, limited character customization, increasing numbers of bugs introduced with each update (they keep breaking more than their fixing), lack of endgame non-linear tasks and collectibles (mini-games, social games, ship customization, etc.) and rather rudimentary guild support.

 

This is exactly how I feel. Basically, BW cast a huge net with no bait. If you don't want a LFD tool in your MMO, than you better have the ability to merge servers and handle transfers. If you don't want that, than you better have a LFD tool. To this day BW still has neither! I honestly think BW has zero plan. I'm starting to wonder if BW thought they would get a free ride with the Star Wars name.

[TUXs]

Bugs and destruction of PvP

[TUXs]

This is exactly how I feel. Basically, BW cast a huge net with no bait. If you don't want a LFD tool in your MMO, than you better have the ability to merge servers and handle transfers. If you don't want that, than you better have a LFD tool. To this day BW still has neither! I honestly think BW has zero plan. I'm starting to wonder if BW thought they would get a free ride with the Star Wars name.

 

I think their arrogance is what doomed them. Not the Star Wars name, the Bioware name.

 

Austin was a new office, just for this project. They felt they were the Bioware "A-team" and it's obvious from the absolute sloppiness of their QA that they felt they were better than everyone else and didn't need to worry about the mistakes everyone else made...they felt they had such a solid game coming out that they didn't give a flying **edit** what the fanbois on the forums wanted. They even had the audacity to mock fans for wanting to do anything 'non-epic' in space. They were so arrogant, that they admitted they didn't need to read the forums...this was their game, they were Biowares "best"...who the **edit** were we to question them?

 

Bioware Austin has only proven how sloppy, arrogant, undisciplined and woefully inept they are so far. I hope they turn it around.

[Skidrowbro]

High expectations is what happened. Too many thinking level 50 is where it's at and rushed to the top. Again too many take MMORPG's for granted and play them only as an online game and forget the RPG part. Stop looking at the destination and go for the journey.

[Fuert]

Lack of LFG tool is killing Swtor. There is a lot of content that I would like to play, but it just is not possible. Idling for 2 hours in fleet and spamming general chat is not for me.

[Darkulous]

Lack of LFG tool is killing Swtor. There is a lot of content that I would like to play, but it just is not possible. Idling for 2 hours in fleet and spamming general chat is not for me.

 

^This is why casuals made up for most of the subscription loss.

[arcdaemon]

^This is why casuals made up for most of the subscription loss.

why because they actually wanted to p[lay the game @ lvl 50 shame on them.

[MikelGoff]

So? There is good feedback on this forum. Its not hard to find.

 

So would you rather Bioware just starts banning griefers? Something must happen! I am tired of my beautiful game being marred by people who sub just to spew bile. D:

[Vlacke]

They need to implement LFG tool, fix some bugs and most certainly hurry the hell up with free character transfers.

SWTOR is a great game with lots of potential but developers need to get their act together and start delivering.

[LegendOfTheWolf]

In my opinion, I would imagine it's not having the same features as other MMO's such as dungeon finder, Cross server PvP. But people forgetting this is a new game and it annoys me a great deal when A conversation goes "You play MMo's?" "Yes, Swtor" "Ha ! Swtor sucks" And the person reason bascially being.. swtor doesn't have features other games do.. My response "I'm so sorry for my innsolance, let me go find a game which HAD these features when it FIRST came out"

[Skidrowbro]

^This is why casuals made up for most of the subscription loss.

 

Because they bought a game they thought was called, Star Wars: The Flashpoint Run? There is more to MMORPG's then using an automated grouping tool.

[Darkulous]

Because they bought a game they thought was called, Star Wars: The Flashpoint Run? There is more to MMORPG's then using an automated grouping tool.

 

Ya, a long time ago in a mmo far far away.

[QuiQuaeQuod]

High expectations is what happened. Too many thinking level 50 is where it's at and rushed to the top. Again too many take MMORPG's for granted and play them only as an online game and forget the RPG part. Stop looking at the destination and go for the journey.

 

Nope.jpg

 

Didn't rush, and that's still not it. Enjoying the journey is no substitute for a fully developed end-game, and neither should it be the only facet in a game that's meant to stay alive by subscription...

 

The RPG facets are lovely, and I love RPGs. What the game lacks is the MMO component that makes it so you can stay and explore the galaxy and do things on a daily basis even when the RPG parts start to run out - if it was just about the RPG part, it wouldn't be worth having it massively multiplayer and subscribing to.

[rakuenCallisto]

Nope.jpg

 

Didn't rush, and that's still not it. Enjoying the journey is no substitute for a fully developed end-game, and neither should it be the only facet in a game that's meant to stay alive by subscription...

 

The RPG facets are lovely, and I love RPGs. What the game lacks is the MMO component that makes it so you can stay and explore the galaxy and do things on a daily basis even when the RPG parts start to run out - if it was just about the RPG part, it wouldn't be worth having it massively multiplayer and subscribing to.

 

THERE HE IS!

 

Defending BW till the bitter end.

[Blistrich]

Enjoying the journey is no substitute for a fully developed end-game, and neither should it be the only facet in a game that's meant to stay alive by subscription.

I challenge anyone currently reading this thread or posting in it to produce evidence of a single MMO that has launched with a "fully developed end-game". In fact, if anyone here can show me an MMO with a fully developed end-game in vanilla, I will be utterly shocked and will bow down at thine feet with mine arse in the air for a good spanking.

 

Vanilla MMOs bleed subs because the endgames are limited.

 

Vanilla Warcraft = Running around Tarren Mill with a kill counter is not an endgame dammit!

Vanilla Conan = lol, endgame? We didn't even have anything past level 20!

Vanilla EVE = "I'm in a battleship!"

Vanilla Aion = "These wings are starting to smell a bit..."

Vanilla DAoC = "DAGDA IS UNDER ATTACK... YES... AGAIN!"

Vanilla SWG = Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts...

[QuiQuaeQuod]

THERE HE IS!

 

Defending BW till the bitter end.

 

How am I DEFENDING BioWare?!

 

 

I challenge anyone currently reading this thread or posting in it to produce evidence of a single MMO that has launched with a "fully developed end-game". In fact, if anyone here can show me an MMO with a fully developed end-game in vanilla, I will be utterly shocked and will bow down at thine feet with mine arse in the air for a good spanking.

 

Vanilla MMOs bleed subs because the endgames are limited.

 

Vanilla Warcraft = Running around Tarren Mill with a kill counter is not an endgame dammit!

Vanilla Conan = lol, endgame? We didn't even have anything past level 20!

Vanilla EVE = "I'm in a battleship!"

Vanilla Aion = "These wings are starting to smell a bit..."

Vanilla DAoC = "DAGDA IS UNDER ATTACK... YES... AGAIN!"

Vanilla SWG = Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts...

 

Why do I care what other MMOs have done on launch? I'm talking about the game here and now, and for whatever reason it's bleeding people because people are not finding themselves wanting to keep playing, and this occurs especially so when they reach the endgame because of the general emptiness of the galaxy. Whether or not other MMOs have or haven't doesn't bother me in the slightest, we're talking about the state of swtor and what's actually going to be there in the foreseeable future.

Edited May 9, 2012 by QuiQuaeQuod

[Darkulous]

I challenge anyone currently reading this thread or posting in it to produce evidence of a single MMO that has launched with a "fully developed end-game". In fact, if anyone here can show me an MMO with a fully developed end-game in vanilla, I will be utterly shocked and will bow down at thine feet with mine arse in the air for a good spanking.

 

Vanilla MMOs bleed subs because the endgames are limited.

 

Vanilla Warcraft = Running around Tarren Mill with a kill counter is not an endgame dammit!

Vanilla Conan = lol, endgame? We didn't even have anything past level 20!

Vanilla EVE = "I'm in a battleship!"

Vanilla Aion = "These wings are starting to smell a bit..."

Vanilla DAoC = "DAGDA IS UNDER ATTACK... YES... AGAIN!"

Vanilla SWG = Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts... Krayts...

 

This game isn't competing with Vanilla WoW. Also, casuals are leaving this game which means this game has a features problem, not so much as a content problem. The content problem is connected to the features problem as well. It all goes back to the lack of features.

[Blistrich]

This game isn't competing with Vanilla WoW. Also, casuals are leaving this game which means this game has a features problem, not so much as a content problem. The content problem is connected to the features problem as well. It all goes back to the lack of features.

Ok... show me an MMO that has launched with "fully developed features".

 

Honestly, I don't know what people want. The game has battlegrounds, raids, other PvE endgame options... and then there's the whole Legacy thing which is designed to encourage the leveling of many characters... I mean SWTOR even launched with endgame reward gear, which is frankly unheard of.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Blistrich