Patch 1.2 - Honest assessment of Bioware Dev competence

[TheNinjaboy]

It's obvious to everyone that there has been a huge loss in the number of logins since 1.2 patch went live.

 

The loss in subscribers usually doesn't hit until 45-60 days after a game breaking patch (this case 1.2) .

 

People stopped logging in but they still have an active sub because they purchased a month or two in advance.

 

Bioware pissed off everyone except players who have mains in 2 Melee classes.

 

Now all the classes that were extremely strong pre-1.2 are borderline insane post 1.2.

 

You see posts about 1-49 Warzones being the worse experience ever now because they're all Marauders or Assassins.

 

The person or parties that made the decision to "class balance" 1.2 should be demoted within the organization and they should never ever be allowed to make another decision regarding PvP balance.

 

No one expects a MMO to be completely balanced but what they did in 1.2 was a page right out of Age of Conan during the first 4 months.

 

1.2 Class balance was so opposite of what should have been that most people will never come back due to lack of faith when it comes to the Bioware development team.

 

There are people without any gaming experience or higher education that could have made a much better decision then what the Bioware devs did with 1.2.

 

That right there is the root of the problem.

 

This is based on past and present experience with the game, Developer comments, and sometimes their lack of input regarding the issues. The patch notes in 1.2 are a prime example of this.....

 

GW2 has balance issues all over the place BUT they do seem to be responsive in addressing the issues and are saying all the right things for now.

 

It is VERY difficult to develop a patch as bad as 1.2 and roll it out live.

 

People were warning Bioware about this disaster for WEEKS prior to rolling out 1.2.

 

Bioware's best case scenario now is to remove most of what they did with 1.2 and start over.

 

This game needs the Robert Irvine or Chef Ramesy of MMOs to come into Bioware's studios and clean their filthy kitchen then show them how to "cook".

 

 

 

EDIT: Added 5/4

 

The activity, population, subscriber base would be higher today if 1.2 never was launched.

 

Players prefer a playable game to a broken one with new content.

 

Bioware has a knack of making understatements of the century.

 

"At that point we turned a huge amount of our resources to PVP development, but we’re still playing a bit of catch-up"

 

The problem is Bioware tried to "develop" PvP in 1.2 and the outcome was one of the worst MMO "class balance" patches ever devised and executed. It was exactly OPPOSITE of what should have been done.

 

This is what should be alarming for people who are currently playing and are considering resubscribing.

Edited May 4, 2012 by TheNinjaboy

[Blackrot]

It's obvious to everyone that there has been a huge loss in the number of logins since 1.2 patch went live.

 

The loss in subscribers usually doesn't hit until 45-60 days after a game breaking patch (this case 1.2) .

 

People stopped logging in but they still have an active sub because they purchased a month or two in advance.

 

Bioware pissed off everyone EXCEPT players who have Sith Warriors / Jedi Knights or Assassins / Shadows as mains.

 

Now all the classes that were already extremely strong pre-1.2 are absolutely idiotic post 1.2.

 

You see posts about 1-49 Warzones being the worse experience ever now because they're all Marauders or Assassins.

 

Honestly whoever made the decision to "class balance" 1.2 should be demoted within the organization and they should never ever be allowed to make another decision regarding PvP balance until they fix the issue.

 

No one expects a MMO to be completely balanced but what they did in 1.2 was a page right out of Age of Conan during the first 4 months.

 

1.2 Class balance was so opposite of what should have been that most people will never come back due to lack of faith when it comes to the Bioware development team.

 

There are people without any gaming experience or higher education that could have made a much better decision then what the Bioware devs did with 1.2.

 

That right there is the root of the problem.

 

This is based on past and present experience with the game, Developer comments, and sometimes their lack of input regarding the issues. The patch notes in 1.2 are a prime example of this.....

 

GW2 has balance issues all over the place BUT they do seem to be responsive in addressing the issues and are saying all the right things for now.

 

It is VERY difficult to develop a patch as bad as 1.2 and roll it out live.

 

People were warning Bioware about this disaster for WEEKS prior to rolling out 1.2.

 

Bioware's best case scenario now is to remove most of what they did with 1.2 and start over.

 

This game needs the Robert Irvine or Chef Ramesy of MMOs to come into Bioware's studios and clean their kitchen then show them how to "cook".should never ever be allowed to make another decision regarding PvP balance until they fix the issue.

 

No one expects a MMO to be completely balanced but what they did in 1.2 was a page right out of Age of Conan during the first 4 months.

 

1.2 Class balance was so opposite of what should have been that most people will never come back due to lack of faith when it comes to the Bioware development team.

 

There are people without any gaming experience or higher education that could have made a much better decision then what the Bioware devs did with 1.2.

 

That right there is the root of the problem.

 

 

There is a good chance that Bioware PvP developers do not possess the mental faculties to properly fix and develop PvP.

 

This is based on past and present experience with the game, Developer comments, and sometimes their lack of input regarding the issues. The patch notes in 1.2 are a prime example of this.....

 

GW2 has balance issues all over the place BUT they do seem to be responsive in addressing the issues and are saying all the right things for now.

 

It is VERY difficult to develop a patch as bad as 1.2 and roll it out live.

 

People were warning Bioware about this disaster for WEEKS prior to rolling out 1.2.

 

Bioware's best case scenario now is to remove most of what they did with 1.2 and start over.

 

This game needs the Robert Irvine or Chef Ramesy of MMOs to come into Bioware's studios and clean their kitchen then show them how to "cook".

 

Well said!! Just about sums it up ninjaboy! They need Chef Robert Irvine in there ASAP!! They are going under fast!

Edited May 3, 2012 by Notannos
non-constructive

[Bluetickone]

 

In before lock, good chance? lol, its a certainty at this point. 1.2 rotting on top of the Ilum fiasco...and theres only a "good chance?"

Edited May 3, 2012 by Notannos
non-constructive

[Razot]

In before lock, good chance? lol, its a certainty at this point. 1.2 rotting on top of the Ilum fiasco...and theres only a "good chance?"

 

For real!

[Bugattiboy]

It's EA. What can you expect from a company that only cares about profits & products sold?

[TheNinjaboy]

Additionally - Bioware Devs need to do the following.

 

#1. Take responsibility for their actions. This means publicly addressing the playerbase directly and not through the media, another website, or other 3rd party source. This should be an apology of epic magnitude showing remorse for butchering the game and soiling their company's previously untarnished good name. Acknowledgement should specifically include misleading players, not listening to TL feedback, and a big sorry for absolutely obliterating class balance.

 

#2. Provide all previous subscribers with 30 days free to come back to the game. This includes anyone that had a valid subscription at one point. This email sent regarding this free 30 days should be from the Devs on their knees pleading and begging for forgiveness. lol but yeah seriously. Maybe a pic should be included. We want to see tears that are genuine.

 

#3. All class "balance" in 1.2+ should be immediately reverted back to pre-1.2. This is huge and where you made your biggest mistake with the game thus far. You should also specifically acknowledge how terrible you are at class balance a 2nd time and let the players know this won't happen again.

 

#4. Whoever is in charge needs to make those responsible for 1.2 patch accountable for their actions. This includes project leads and Senior management that approved this disaster.

 

#5. SLOWLY and with extreme caution / babysteps integrate class changes and fixes based on real PvP data, PvP feedback from players that aren't horrible at the game (i.e. those that actually know how to use an interrupt ability). This should be more about buffing classes that aren't meeting player expectations and less about nerfing X class to oblivion.

Edited May 3, 2012 by TheNinjaboy

[Rikeryo]

After experiencing the Ilum and RWZ disasters and the horrible balancing changes I think it's a fact that Bioware PvP developers do not possess the mental faculties to properly fix and develop PvP.

[Grymtusk]

I applaud your post OP, unfortunately it is ultimately going to fall on deaf ears. I'm sure some minion or CS will read this and even forward it on up the chain of command and eventually it might even reach the head honchos who are then just gonna either laugh or sigh and forget about it.

 

What sucks is that it hits the nail right on the HEAD. The SINGLE biggest failing of patch 1.2 was the class re balancing. I just don't get it. Did none of the people responsible for this even play PvP? I hated teams that had multiple healers prior to 1.2 and now I hate them even more because now my healers don't even stand a chance to survive to heal me. I unsubbed as soon as 1.2 hit without any significant back tracking from the testing server. This game is going in the opposite direction as far as fun.

 

And FUN is the one thing Geoff Zoeller's metrics can't measure, which should be the first thing at the top of their priority list. Not some stupid excel spread sheet with numbers.

[Bugattiboy]

I had big epic reply, but then I thought of this. The entirety of all that is EA can summed up in one sentence.

 

"Screw the rules, I have money."

[dark_wolf]

I had big epic reply, but then I thought of this. The entirety of all that is EA can summed up in one sentence.

 

"Screw the rules, I have money."

+1 for the littlekuriboh reference.

[JediDuckling]

It's EA. What can you expect from a company that only cares about profits & products sold?

 

ive got a fealing bioware know this game is a flopp and are just milking the players of money to get back what money they put into making the game before it does go down the toilet.

 

thats only 1 theory i have though

[Jenrais]

I pretty much gave up on balance when they raised sniper damage when what they needed was utility

[HoyaPooch]

All I can say is that I pvp on both factions of Dark Reaper. And in the past week or so I've really sensed that the player base is shrinking especially on the Republic side. I don't know if this is because of the GW2 beta.

 

I still enjoy pvp'ing on this game very much. And if I agree with the op on any one point it's that 1.15> 1.2. I say this because I really don't enjoy the TTK post 1.2 despite all the theorycrafters saying that damage didn't really change.

 

By the way my main is an assault Commando which is a class that has rarely been accused of being OP or UP.

[NDiggy]

 

#5. SLOWLY and with extreme caution / babysteps integrate class changes and fixes based on real PvP data, PvP feedback from players that aren't horrible at the game (i.e. those that actually know how to use an interrupt ability). This should be more about buffing classes that aren't meeting player expectations and less about nerfing X class to oblivion.

 

What if you play the only class in the game that doesn't have an interrupt?

 

In all seriousness, someone at BW needs to fall on their sword to atone for the atrocity that was 1.2

[vimm]

It's EA. What can you expect from a company that only cares about profits & products sold?

 

As opposed to those other companies.

[Astarica]

Sometimes I wish the doomsayers are right because it'd mean I'll stop queueing up a game and get 3 guys with 13K HP on my team. I thought all those guys are supposed to have quit because they can never win, yet they keep on show up on my team which usually leads to a severe handicap.

[Elmuerto]

ive got a fealing bioware know this game is a flopp and are just milking the players of money to get back what money they put into making the game before it does go down the toilet.

 

thats only 1 theory i have though

 

I think you're right.

 

Stop hating on the developers, they develop the direction the game designers and lead management chose,, I dunno how much exactly they'll be doing that catch up PvP, it was never the focus in this game can they turn something that big around, I'm not sure.

 

I think now they're banking on the quoted 500000 subscribers needed to be the Star Wars loyal fans, because there'll be more planets despite the fact imo they didn't do the ones they already have right.

[Fidopro]

its pretty hard to disagree with the OPs post

 

went to login at 10PM pacific time last night and EVERY server but two were LOW population...I don't know whats causing people to quit like this but my server is so dead I unsubbed already

 

I still have a month+ game time since they gave us a free month...YAY lucky me!!

[Scoobings]

So THIS is where they moved the diva convention.

[LiQuiDMDH]

All I can say is that I pvp on both factions of Dark Reaper. And in the past week or so I've really sensed that the player base is shrinking especially on the Republic side. I don't know if this is because of the GW2 beta.

 

I still enjoy pvp'ing on this game very much. And if I agree with the op on any one point it's that 1.15> 1.2. I say this because I really don't enjoy the TTK post 1.2 despite all the theorycrafters saying that damage didn't really change.

 

By the way my main is an assault Commando which is a class that has rarely been accused of being OP or UP.

Combination of burnout and semester-end homework/exams. At least for a lot of the people I play with. People are breaking up their swtor time with other games until ranked comes out.

 

Who's yer main? =)

[Torcer]

Balance isn’t a huge problem since it’s in the nature of MMOs to tweak class balance. The Real issues are more fundamental to all PvP – Low server populations, long QUES, lack of Cross Server PvP, short TTK, no World or RvR, The prevalence of Stuns, letc.

[Quinlynn]

First off, while I don't disagree wth the OP, I think placing all blame on the devs is not appropriate.

 

More often than not, the devs want to do the right thing to fix what they know should be done, only to be told no by some slick jerk in suit that only looks at sales number, accounting reports, and demographics. IE, until the bad decicions by suits are reflected on the accounting reports, they will fail to understand the consequences of their bad direction.

 

I agree that EA is the problem, however, it is also abundently clear that LA is also part of the ongoing problem with SW MMOs. For what ever reason GL has fired people that seem utterly unqualified at knowing what makes SW, SW. To coin a SWG phrase, they have no clue what is Star Warsy and Iconic.

 

With corporate culture what it is, expecting any kind of honest communication from anyone employed by said coporation is a pipe dream. Games are run by the suits, not by gamers.

[Blackrot]

Combination of burnout and semester-end homework/exams. At least for a lot of the people I play with. People are breaking up their swtor time with other games until ranked comes out.

 

Who's yer main? =)

 

Its to late for ranked games....for those that have mains on dead servers whats the point?? For those that are on active servers...have fun doing ranked with all the FOTM classes.

 

Unsubbed...waiting on D3 in a few weeks and GW2 after playing beta weekend. Tried tera...not for me.

[The_Bucket]

Its to late for ranked games....for those that have mains on dead servers whats the point?? For those that are on active servers...have fun doing ranked with all the FOTM classes.

 

Unsubbed...waiting on D3 in a few weeks and GW2 after playing beta weekend. Tried tera...not for me.

 

D3 is terrible.. No PvP on release, and ZERO open world PvP. Saw good things about GW2 though, we will ahve to see.. Some of the same people in this thread were most likely on the Tera/WoW and other MMO threads just 3 months ago screaming "CAN'T WAIT TO LEAVE THIS POW GAME FOR SWToR!!!!"

 

It's just funny.. I believe the Dev's are doing what they can with what they have. I'm enjoying the game right now and I play a Guardian. One of the most difficult classes to play in SWToR.

[Wrestle]

Whats up with the guy (developer) always quoting DPS metrics is in paramaters? Really?? How about make the game fun. Not my metrics have to have everyone in the 5% range. How does burst fit into your metrics then??? How about making damage dealers deal damage? How about some classes do massive burst damage, but lower over all damage while others do massive long term damage? How about tanks being able to take crazy damage? How about Bounty Hunters being able to kill 1 person solo? How about healers being able to heal???