Mara\Sentinels are NOT OP

[LeonkRAV]

I know alot of people are complain and the age old "QQ" about marauders and sentinels. I have a Juggernaut and a sentinel and though i REGRET ever leveling them in the beginning of the game due to all the setbacks and just plain overall shortcomings that these classes were faced with.

 

Now we are in 1.2 and they've done some changes to improve the class. and all of a sudden its OP.

Lets make something perfectly clear - when bioware made this game it was FAIRLY obvious they were overcompensating for the age ol Ranged vs Melee war that plagued the balance of WoWlike games. And they favored ranged classes greatly.

 

You had classes like Sorc/sage, shadow/sin op/scound cammando/Bh that were miles ahead in utility or one button wonders who excelled with little to effort or skill from the player.

 

In 1.2 bioware changed things to rectify these issues, and now people are claiming a class that didnt have much changes is op.

 

Frankly the way i see it, these people are so conditioned to walk all over this class in past that now they are a competent threat; they dont want to accept it, they want to deny it and they want it nerfed, not because its needs it, bu; b/c they need to kill it with no effort b/c theyre class is suppose to be superior; b/c thats how the game started.

Franky, operatives, and especially assasins/shadows are just as dangerous as they were befor and yet i hear no complaints. Snipers/slingers have become the new "tracer missle" class. This is simply a witch hunt brought by the fact people dont want change. If they did nerf them , forums would be filled with "nerf snipers and their snipe spam".

 

With a game riddled and mucked up with abusive stuns, ridiculous knocbacks, a failing resolve bar and a dependency on these mechanics in order to be sucessful, how do you expect a pure melee class with non of these to survive in it.

 

Marauders have no stuns, no knockbacks, no grapples, no dependable snares a sub par healing talent linked to 1 tree, all they have is their dps, a slow and their survivable. Survivability talents meant to allow them to combat all these CCs.

 

So i ask you, WHAT about this class that is so OP that people cant beat it? How is this class OP. What is so appalling about the mechanics that warrants a class change?

 

I dont see bioware buying into the forum complaints in this regards, bioware isnt going to bend on this one, but there is no evidence to show the class needs a change.

 

Learn, adapt, Get better - L2Play....

Edited April 30, 2012 by LeonkRAV

[LancelotOC]

Answer me this.. in the last 10 warzones you played against 80 people.. 8 in each one. How many of those 80 killed you solo and how many of those did you kill solo?

 

I don't support any nerf threads but I don't support stupid either. They nerfed the heck out of healing. Didn't you think if you were effective pre patch that the heal nerfs would get the world to freak out over this enhanced effectiveness post patch?

 

In all the anti heal-nerf threads pre-patch where were you to say healing was fine? No you were probably staying silent that you could already kill healers solo imagining this gingerbread house world with no healing and you killing everyone, with all those people dying being stuck on stupid . Durp Bee Durp

[pathiss]

Sounds like you need to learn to play instead. They were OP before 1.2 in the hands of a competent player.

 

1.2 just made them FOTM.

[BiggDirty]

Tell you what bro, when rateds come out, I dare you to form a team with no marauders or assassins on it. See how that goes for you and then come back here and tell me to l2p

[Bpotux]

Cool story OP. Where can I subscribe to your newsletter?

[Kawiki]

Let's see.. all you have is your DPS and Surviability? Your words.

 

I don't think you need a major nerf but you (and DPS in general) need an adjustment.

[Savej]

These boards were full of "Healing Is Fine" posters. Saying that bw nerfed healing solely in response to posts here is innaccurate. I was one that occasionally posted anti-healing comments and i was almost always outnumbered. In spite of lots of sore and bitter posts here I haven't seen evidence that BW is going the route of nerf-by-forum-sentiment.

 

The OP isn't pretty but I agree with almost all of it.

[Bpotux]

Undying rage - change it to:

 

3m CD

Or

-50% damage done to enemies while UR is active

Or

Lower it to 3 sec duration

[Pathlight-]

I know alot of people are complain and the age old "QQ" about marauders and sentinels. I have a Juggernaut and a sentinel and though i REGRET ever leveling them in the beginning of the game due to all the setbacks and just plain overall shortcomings that these classes were faced with.

 

Now we are in 1.2 and they've done some changes to improve the class. and all of a sudden its OP.

Lets make something perfectly clear - when bioware made this game it was FAIRLY obvious they were overcompensating for the age ol Ranged vs Melee war that plagued the balance of WoWlike games. And they favored ranged classes greatly.

 

You had classes like Sorc/sage, shadow/sin op/scound cammando/Bh that were miles ahead in utility or one button wonders who excelled with little to effort or skill from the player.

 

In 1.2 bioware changed things to rectify these issues, and now people are claiming a class that didnt have much changes is op.

 

Frankly the way i see it, these people are so conditioned to walk all over this class in past that now they are a competent threat; they dont want to accept it, they want to deny it and they want it nerfed, not because its needs it, bu; b/c they need to kill it with no effort b/c theyre class is suppose to be superior; b/c thats how the game started.

Franky, operatives, and especially assasins/shadows are just as dangerous as they were befor and yet i hear no complaints. Snipers/slingers have become the new "tracer missle" class. This is simply a witch hunt brought by the fact people dont want change. If they did nerf them , forums would be filled with "nerf snipers and their snipe spam".

 

With a game riddled and mucked up with abusive stuns, ridiculous knocbacks, a failing resolve bar and a dependency on these mechanics in order to be sucessful, how do you expect a pure melee class with non of these to survive in it.

 

Marauders have no stuns, no knockbacks, no grapples, no dependable snares a sub par healing talent linked to 1 tree, all they have is their dps, a slow and their survivable. Survivability talents meant to allow them to combat all these CCs.

 

So i ask you, WHAT about this class that is so OP that people cant beat it? How is this class OP. What is so appalling about the mechanics that warrants a class change?

 

I dont see bioware buying into the forum complaints in this regards, bioware isnt going to bend on this one, but there is no evidence to show the class needs a change.

 

Learn, adapt, Get better - L2Play....

 

Don't exhaust yourself bud, baddies will keep crying.

[Kaarsa]

These boards are full of Undyin Rage is broken for like 2 months now.

 

These boards are full of Tanksasins are OP for like 2 months now.

 

These boards are full of Resolve is broken for....longer than I remember.

 

What does it means? Basicaly nothing, besides fact that people will whine about absolutely everything, especially if they know nothing about it.

[Ssfbistimg]

I know alot of people are complain and the age old "QQ" about marauders and sentinels. I have a Juggernaut and a sentinel and though i REGRET ever leveling them in the beginning of the game due to all the setbacks and just plain overall shortcomings that these classes were faced with.

 

Now we are in 1.2 and they've done some changes to improve the class. and all of a sudden its OP.

Lets make something perfectly clear - when bioware made this game it was FAIRLY obvious they were overcompensating for the age ol Ranged vs Melee war that plagued the balance of WoWlike games. And they favored ranged classes greatly.

 

You had classes like Sorc/sage, shadow/sin op/scound cammando/Bh that were miles ahead in utility or one button wonders who excelled with little to effort or skill from the player.

 

In 1.2 bioware changed things to rectify these issues, and now people are claiming a class that didnt have much changes is op.

 

Frankly the way i see it, these people are so conditioned to walk all over this class in past that now they are a competent threat; they dont want to accept it, they want to deny it and they want it nerfed, not because its needs it, bu; b/c they need to kill it with no effort b/c theyre class is suppose to be superior; b/c thats how the game started.

Franky, operatives, and especially assasins/shadows are just as dangerous as they were befor and yet i hear no complaints. Snipers/slingers have become the new "tracer missle" class. This is simply a witch hunt brought by the fact people dont want change. If they did nerf them , forums would be filled with "nerf snipers and their snipe spam".

 

With a game riddled and mucked up with abusive stuns, ridiculous knocbacks, a failing resolve bar and a dependency on these mechanics in order to be sucessful, how do you expect a pure melee class with non of these to survive in it.

 

Marauders have no stuns, no knockbacks, no grapples, no dependable snares a sub par healing talent linked to 1 tree, all they have is their dps, a slow and their survivable. Survivability talents meant to allow them to combat all these CCs.

 

So i ask you, WHAT about this class that is so OP that people cant beat it? How is this class OP. What is so appalling about the mechanics that warrants a class change?

 

I dont see bioware buying into the forum complaints in this regards, bioware isnt going to bend on this one, but there is no evidence to show the class needs a change.

 

Learn, adapt, Get better - L2Play....

 

the class was always overpowered. the reason no one saw it was because most Sentinels/Marauders sucked. But when the class was played right they were beastly since launch. Now even the mediocre sentinels/marauders are wrecking people so they finally came on the forum to complain.

[Xerain]

Answer me this.. in the last 10 warzones you played against 80 people.. 8 in each one. How many of those 80 killed you solo and how many of those did you kill solo?

 

I don't support any nerf threads but I don't support stupid either. They nerfed the heck out of healing. Didn't you think if you were effective pre patch that the heal nerfs would get the world to freak out over this enhanced effectiveness post patch?

 

In all the anti heal-nerf threads pre-patch where were you to say healing was fine? No you were probably staying silent that you could already kill healers solo imagining this gingerbread house world with no healing and you killing everyone, with all those people dying being stuck on stupid . Durp Bee Durp

 

The sorc healer i ran with pre 1.2 would rarely die in a warzone, he rarely oom'ed, was able to keep the three other people in his group up pretty easily, and was able to DPS while doing all this. Healers were a bit too tanky pre 1.2. Now post 1.2 healers are fine.

 

Put 3 healers on a team in a war zone pre 1.2 and no one would die, put 3 healers on a team post 1.2 and no one will die. Not sure what the QQ is about but okies.

[Caelrie]

Sounds like you need to learn to play instead. They were OP before 1.2 in the hands of a competent player.

 

1.2 just made them FOTM.

 

This. Sents/maras have been grossly overpowered for a long time. They were just slightly hard to play. Now a monkey can play them so they're FOTM.

[Aehgo]

Bioware double the damage output with expertise making TTK alot faster.

They also nerfed every ranged classes survivability and damage,except snipers.

They buffed Marauders damage output and gave them an interupt.

With these new updates Marauders turned into damage dealing maniacs and it also brought all of the Marauders defensive cooldowns under scrutiny.

So now Maras have best dps,best defensive cooldowns,a godmode ability,self healing and a 5 second stealth.

NERF!!!!!!

[Kaarsa]

Bioware double the damage output with expertise making TTK alot faster.

They also nerfed every ranged classes survivability and damage,except snipers.

They buffed Marauders damage output and gave them an interupt.

With these new updates Marauders turned into damage dealing maniacs and it also brought all of the Marauders defensive cooldowns under scrutiny.

So now Maras have best dps,best defensive cooldowns,a godmode ability,self healing and a 5 second stealth.

NERF!!!!!!

 

Can we report lies? Shame we cant...Not a single sentence from above post is correct...

[Xerain]

This. Sents/maras have been grossly overpowered for a long time. They were just slightly hard to play. Now a monkey can play them so they're FOTM.

 

Yes^

 

A lot of those new mara/sents you see in warzones are my team of monkeys playing them. It's fun to sit behind my favorite one, I named him Phillip, and watch him just destroy everyone in his path. But eh Phillip learned from the best aka me.

[LeonkRAV]

This. Sents/maras have been grossly overpowered for a long time. They were just slightly hard to play. Now a monkey can play them so they're FOTM.

 

LOL, and how did they make them less hard to play? Maras were NEVER OP. Nor are they op now. And btw what exactly is the class you play from which you are making the assumption that it is so?

 

Like i said befor, MARA/sent are built to endure the redundancies that other classes have that they dont have. like stuns. snares, kb and heals. Their survivability mechanics are part of that. Unlike the jugg class they do not have a push nor do they have the defensive capabilities of a Jugg either. You increase the CDs of a mara/sent and you essentially break it.

 

BUT please explain to me how Mara/Sents were made easier to play. im curious b/c i didnt see "we made sent/mara easier" in the 1.2 patch notes.

[Lostpharoah]

the reason people think mara / sents are over powered. Is simply because everyone thinks we can be speced 31 / 31 /31

Maras cant do that ..

Everyone thinks all maras have SUPER epic "Smash" damage. Well sorta yes but only if focus spec'ed.. when spec'ed focus a Mara / sent gives up nearly all survivability's and is as squishy as warm Jello.

The mara Sent with major survivability's is spec'ed to watchman, However they sacrifice a fair amount of DPS and kiss there "Smash" damage good bye.

As for combat spec .. well no one plays that .. because its just that horrible.

 

I Do agree with the OP. His points were a bit difficult to read and comprehend. But I know what the OP is trying to say , and in a nut shell I agree.

Add to the this my opening argument aswell, Alot of people argue how OP mara / sents are based on paper theory .. BUT it dont work that way and we CAN NOT spec 31 / 31 /31.

If Mara / sents were so so Over powered .. why are they not dominating the score sheets .. nearly every WZ score sheet has a sage / sorc at the top of the list.

Dont forget to account for number of deaths in a wz.. mara / sents topped that stat (dying the most) pre 1.2 and continue to own that stat post 1.2.

Where sage / sorc class's pre 1.2 on many occasions went a whole WZ with out dying once. and still post 1.2 the number of deaths to a sage / sorce is much lower then mara / sents. However they are dying now, and this is where the thread OP's point comes in.. because now they are dying mara / sents must be over powered, of coarse makes sense.

 

This is all due in large part to animosity because all other class's had some sorta nerf and brought them in line to what there ACTUAL ROLES are supposed to be.

 

IE: just for example ill compare the 2 class's ive brought up.

Mara / sents 1v 1 are supposed to be difficult, THATS there ROLE. They are intended to go in and kill 1! person at a time. this does equate to Sage / Sorc in that instead of killing one person at a time there DPS is spread at multiple targets, instead of all there talents being focused on a single target.

Sage / Sorc Are AREA damage or healers. there role is team play. in fact they should strictly be healers .. but thats not the case at all.

So yeah if your not a mara / sent then your basically upset still because you got nerfed down a little and need to take out the loss of your easy button on the class that did not get nerfed.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Lostpharoah

[LancelotOC]

The sorc healer i ran with pre 1.2 would rarely die in a warzone, he rarely oom'ed, was able to keep the three other people in his group up pretty easily, and was able to DPS while doing all this. Healers were a bit too tanky pre 1.2. Now post 1.2 healers are fine.

 

Put 3 healers on a team in a war zone pre 1.2 and no one would die, put 3 healers on a team post 1.2 and no one will die. Not sure what the QQ is about but okies.

 

Cool.. could Marauders solo them though?

[Lostpharoah]

Bioware double the damage output with expertise making TTK alot faster.

They also nerfed every ranged classes survivability and damage,except snipers.

They buffed Marauders damage output and gave them an interupt.

With these new updates Marauders turned into damage dealing maniacs and it also brought all of the Marauders defensive cooldowns under scrutiny.

So now Maras have best dps,best defensive cooldowns,a godmode ability,self healing and a 5 second stealth.

NERF!!!!!!

 

What game are you playing .. LETS stick with actual facts instead of making stuff up.. WOW thats pretty shameless ..

[Xerain]

Cool.. could Marauders solo them though?

 

with 2 other healers on the team and 5 dps/tanks... no.

[LordDeschain]

the reason people think mara / sents are over powered. Is simply because everyone thinks we can be speced 31 / 31 /31

Maras cant do that ..

Everyone thinks all maras have SUPER epic "Smash" damage. Well sorta yes but only if focus spec'ed.. when spec'ed focus a Mara / sent gives up nearly all survivability's and is as squishy as warm Jello.

The mara Sent with major survivability's is spec'ed to watchman, However they sacrifice a fair amount of DPS and kiss there "Smash" damage good bye.

As for combat spec .. well no one plays that .. because its just that horrible.

 

I Do agree with the OP. His points were a bit difficult to read and comprehend. But I know what the OP is trying to say , and in a nut shell I agree.

Add to the this my opening argument aswell, Alot of people argue how OP mara / sents are based on paper theory .. BUT it dont work that way and we CAN NOT spec 31 / 31 /31.

If Mara / sents were so so Over powered .. why are they not dominating the score sheets .. nearly every WZ score sheet has a sage / sorc at the top of the list.

Dont forget to account for number of deaths in a wz.. mara / sents topped that stat (dying the most) pre 1.2 and continue to own that stat post 1.2.

Where sage / sorc class's pre 1.2 on many occasions went a whole WZ with out dying once. and still post 1.2 the number of deaths to a sage / sorce is much lower then mara / sents. However they are dying now, and this is where the thread OP's point comes in.. because now they are dying mara / sents must be over powered, of coarse makes sense.

 

This is all due in large part to animosity because all other class's had some sorta nerf and brought them in line to what there ACTUAL ROLES are supposed to be.

 

IE: just for example ill compare the 2 class's ive brought up.

Mara / sents 1v 1 are supposed to be difficult, THATS there ROLE. They are intended to go in and kill 1! person at a time. this does equate to Sage / Sorc in that instead of killing one person at a time there DPS is spread at multiple targets, instead of all there talents being focused on a single target.

Sage / Sorc Are AREA damage or healers. there role is team play. in fact they should strictly be healers .. but thats not the case at all.

So yeah if your not a mara / sent then your basically upset still because you got nerfed down a little and need to take out the loss of your easy button on the class that did not get nerfed.

 

said perfectly, maras always top the death board even when we do good dps and get a lot of kills, we are squishy as hell, take away the CD's and the 4 second semi-stealth we are complete toast and even so it takes skill to use those abilities correctly, the stealth is 4 secs at least in rage only has 45 sec cooldown, the saber ward has 3 minute cooldown and only lasts 12 secs, in a game where there are 10 sec cc's and stuns this fits right in

[LeonkRAV]

LOL, if all you non mara/sents werent so preconditioned to blow your cc loads on the initial start of a fight you wouldnt get owned by a mara after he waits til after to pop his.

 

 

Stuns and snares arent offensive mechanics they are defensive mechanics. Sent have guardian of the force for 6 secs, you have stuns, sleeps w/e. But all the bad players always waste all of their utility with no thought or reason and when it comes to crunch time, they lose.

 

Guarded by the force is totally useless if im stuned or snared. not to mention we sacrifice half our current hp.

 

People need to stop playing like this is WoW utylized your abilitie logically and the illusion of mara/sent opness is gone.

 

I use to always force leap, and right after i would get kbed and snared and now im screwed. I dont do that anymore, i run in, get knocked back then i force leap to the target and now he looks like a baddy b/c he lost his range gap and i pick him apart. So he runs to forums and say im op b.c i was smart enough to waste my leap early so he ranged shoot me for 5 secs for 70% of my hp.

Edited April 30, 2012 by LeonkRAV

[LancelotOC]

Ok so pre patch one lone Marauder vs. 8 people would not be able to kill one of their 3 healers.

 

Let me rephrase the question .. could Marauders solo a solo one though?

[XenonParsec]

These threads are so awesome.

 

The OP has added to BW's metrics; only a few more posts now till there's enough measured QQ metrics for a mara/sent nerf. You guys are getting more tears than sorc/sage, so I hope you can adapt to your burst being gutted.

 

Remember, good gamers adapt.