What Sent/Mar spec and change has contributed to them becoming op?

[RoyFokker]

If they dont fix it, they'll end up with Sentinal vs Marauder WZs. Because everyone and their brother is rerolling one of these two classes for good reason.

 

Which brings me to another point, if anyone is looking to start an alt, Marauder/Sent is a very good choice. If thats where they want these 2 classes to be, damage wise, everyone needs to have one.

 

What wave of rerolls? I haven't seen an overabundance of new ones. The few new ones I do see, I crush because they're that bad.

[Darianth]

lol

It depends on the spec actually. If the sniper is using a very specific spec, they have a chance. If they are not, they have as much of a chance as the other classes. Btw trying to insult one of my posts isn't relevant to the absolutely incorrect info in that other post I laughed at.

 

Marauders have too many defense cooldowns against sniper damage to die to them unless they run at them at less than 100% hp or don't have their cooldowns. If we want to stun them at under ~30% hp to kill before the undying rage, than we can only use either our knockback or our flashbang, not both. If we use our knockback, all you have to do is go invis and pop up on us opening with a snare. We won't be able to get far enough away to not take damage, our only chance is to face tank. If we leave cover for one second, jump at us for extra damage to keep us close. We only have one stun. If we want to save it for the last, then we will take damage at the beginning, too much to recover from usually.

I'm sorry that you get killed by gunslingers regularly. But if it is a 1v1 situation, and not being attacked from him while on another target, then that's your own lack of skill or cooldowns (why are you running at a covered gunslinger with no defense cooldowns anyway?)

 

If you disagree with any of this, please provide real information, explaining the way you get killed, and show you actually know what you are talking about. If you can't, then both my points still stand.

Also, I have absolutely no idea where you got the idea that I am "more pve than pve". Even if you can deduce that from some forum posts, it has absolutely no bearing on the arguments being made.

 

The funny thing is he is right. I slaughter alot of people 1v1 on my slinger marauder being one of them. The only time I really die is when 2 or more notice I'm slaughtering them and one stuns me an they both wail on me but unless they kill me in time I can cc and get away.

[AruthaWolf]

I have raged quite a lot (to myself) about the average of 6! damage I see above marauders heads after they pop their cooldown, it is quite annoying.

The major problem with it is that for the duration attacking that marauder is useless, so most people change targets and he gets healed.

What it needs is a 99% damage and healing reduction for 5 seconds, because with a healer it is just 5 seconds of invincibility seeing as the 50% hp loss is nothing. (and it would not affect questing and shouldn't really have to use it in Operations)

Or change the 99% to be some number you can work out/supply yourself such that 1 dps would do 10% of a marauders hp during the duration. Making the dps who sees the marauder cloaked still try his hardest to finish him.

[nellosmomishot]

I have raged quite a lot (to myself) about the average of 6! damage I see above marauders heads after they pop their cooldown, it is quite annoying.

The major problem with it is that for the duration attacking that marauder is useless, so most people change targets and he gets healed.

What it needs is a 99% damage and healing reduction for 5 seconds, because with a healer it is just 5 seconds of invincibility seeing as the 50% hp loss is nothing. (and it would not affect questing and shouldn't really have to use it in Operations)

Or change the 99% to be some number you can work out/supply yourself such that 1 dps would do 10% of a marauders hp during the duration. Making the dps who sees the marauder cloaked still try his hardest to finish him.

 

If you were attacking the sentinel with a healer nearby you deserve to have the sentinel healed back up while hes invincible. Seriously, how difficult is it to save an interrupt or a stun for the healer... or better yet, attack the healer. As a healer i'm astonished at how frequently I'm the only one harassing the other healer with KB and interrupts.

 

More on topic with this thread. I don't see what all the QQ about sentinels are about. Honestly, even if you can't kill them... using your snares and LOS effectively you should be able to avoid taking too much damage (I'm a healer, not sure what DPS would do here). The really good sentinels on my server can lock me down and keep me from healing effectively, but still don't down me (1v1 anyway, any healer should die in a 2 DPS vs 1 situation though). The bad sentinels get rolled along with the bads of everyone else. I play a sage and sentinel is supposed to be my "hard counter" and I still don't see them as OP.

[Sleak]

The only change that makes them OP is Ravage/Master Strike being uninterruptable and giving you a talent that makes it snare somebody. I agree that ravage/master strike should be immune to interrupts. Your playing a melee class, it doesn't make sense for a melee ability to be interruptable.

 

The snare however is just ridiculous. I have over 1200 expertise and a marauder in gear similar to mine can crit me for 4500-5k with the last tick of ravage. I mean really? 3 second channel cast that the damage can range from like 3k if nothing crits to 9k if everything crits.

 

I know people will complain about people running out of it but you have to be able to do something to save yourself. Saving your stun just in case you fight a marauder sometime in a warzone is completely impractical.

[Seravis]

I have raged quite a lot (to myself) about the average of 6! damage I see above marauders heads after they pop their cooldown, it is quite annoying.

The major problem with it is that for the duration attacking that marauder is useless, so most people change targets and he gets healed.

What it needs is a 99% damage and healing reduction for 5 seconds, because with a healer it is just 5 seconds of invincibility seeing as the 50% hp loss is nothing. (and it would not affect questing and shouldn't really have to use it in Operations)

Or change the 99% to be some number you can work out/supply yourself such that 1 dps would do 10% of a marauders hp during the duration. Making the dps who sees the marauder cloaked still try his hardest to finish him.

 

Marauder bubble already has quite a few weaknesses to it compared to the other bubbles in the game. Notably no self cleanse or CC immunity and that potential 9k damage they can do to themselves.

 

Also like everyone else has pointed out. Focus the healers first. There is a reason that a marauder is one of the WORST classes at protecting their own healers. They have no taunt/guard/pull and their CC options are very limited compared to other classes. They do great at taking down unguarded healers, but very poorly at protecting their own healers.

 

Undying rage only becomes a "second life" if you fail to kill the healers first. Otherwise its a lot like an assassins bubble but it doesn't grant CC immunity nor does it cleanse them of all debuffs. Also having abilities in the game that actually discourage blind zerging of the closest enemy you see is a good thing.

 

PVP 101-Focus the healers first.

[ZDProletariat]

The funny thing is he is right. I slaughter alot of people 1v1 on my slinger marauder being one of them. The only time I really die is when 2 or more notice I'm slaughtering them and one stuns me an they both wail on me but unless they kill me in time I can cc and get away.

 

There are countless variables not being brought up. Any slinger can shoot a marauder in a fight for a node and destroy them. Any slinger if healed can face tank a marauder. Any slinger can root and run long enough for the marauder to be picked apart by others close by. Any slinger can even kill them if you have the upper hand, get the first shot off, and only need to go through 60% of their hp while they need to get to you. Any slinger can kill poorly geared marauders. Any slinger can kill poorly skilled marauders.

But an equally geared, equally skilled marauder with his cooldowns, against you with yours, beginning the fight at melee range 1v1. That's the problem. Kiting isn't an option with snares and force leap and force camo. They have too much defense that you aren't able to go through, and can't stun or knockback for long enough for the amount of damage they can do to you. Pacify and saber ward completely nullify your damage for a long time, and rebuke gives them the damage mitigation a vanguards power shield does (almost) Then guarded by the force at the end. Again, we have to choose to either knock them back, or flashbang through one of their defense skills, or if you want both, you can't stun at the end before the gbtf.

If you think you have an answer that consistently works, I'm all ears. I'm not the usual juvenile on these forums that will not listen to reason. To instead of just saying he's right, what is the answer that I somehow failed to find after 83 valor levels?

[Blloodbane]

The only change that makes them OP is Ravage/Master Strike being uninterruptable and giving you a talent that makes it snare somebody. I agree that ravage/master strike should be immune to interrupts. Your playing a melee class, it doesn't make sense for a melee ability to be interruptable.

 

The snare however is just ridiculous. I have over 1200 expertise and a marauder in gear similar to mine can crit me for 4500-5k with the last tick of ravage. I mean really? 3 second channel cast that the damage can range from like 3k if nothing crits to 9k if everything crits.

 

I know people will complain about people running out of it but you have to be able to do something to save yourself. Saving your stun just in case you fight a marauder sometime in a warzone is completely impractical.

 

Speaking from Mara perspective, I dont know the mirro names that well. The kind of damage you are talking about is only on crits and possibly firing off gore as an opener too.

 

Okay its a root and not snare and it last duration of Ravage, if you play a trooper (or have a KB ability), you dont have to move just pop your knock back, not only does it move him away from you, but it stops that third (and most deadly) tick on Ravage. If you dont have that you will either have to Stun/CC which will also stop that last deadly tick. Failing that you will have to root and hope you can get out of range of 10m (its not point blank) before that third tick drops. If you see a Mara or Sent, it might be wise to save your stun as a defense rather trying to use it offense. I know its heart breaking but if it means the difference in the combat, just think about it.

 

Now mind you, this is one tree that can root during ravage, thats Carnage... This tree has no real healing to speak of and highly dependent on healing. If I have one, my numbers are good, if I have to withdraw from combat to heal up and so forth, my numbers are lower. The tree most people are hating on and most marauders agree is the best tree is Ahnilation (Watchman for Sents???) and thats the one that has dots and healing. Carnage is pretty much nothing but a glass cannon thats has a range of melee...

Edited April 29, 2012 by Blloodbane

[furiousferret]

IMO, the biggest thing to change was class dynamics in pvp.

 

Pre 1.2, this was a ranged game; Marauders were still good but they were constantly being kited and focused on by teams of Sorc's. Playing against an all ranged team is frustrating, even now, because you may be able to kill one but the rest will burn you down.

 

Now, its the opposite. Instead of Warzones being 12 ranged and 4 melee, its 12 melee and 4 ranged. Guess who the melee go after now? Ranged go down so fast its not even funny, but so did melee pre 1.2.

 

I think the biggest 'change' Mara's had was the 10% increase to thier finisher, for me at least that was a huge change. Ravage is good, but not a vast improvement over old rotations.

[MagicmanNC]

The only change that makes them OP is Ravage/Master Strike being uninterruptable and giving you a talent that makes it snare somebody. I agree that ravage/master strike should be immune to interrupts. Your playing a melee class, it doesn't make sense for a melee ability to be interruptable.

 

The snare however is just ridiculous. I have over 1200 expertise and a marauder in gear similar to mine can crit me for 4500-5k with the last tick of ravage. I mean really? 3 second channel cast that the damage can range from like 3k if nothing crits to 9k if everything crits.

 

I know people will complain about people running out of it but you have to be able to do something to save yourself. Saving your stun just in case you fight a marauder sometime in a warzone is completely impractical.

You do realize that's only the Combat/Carnage spec that gets the root from Master Strike/Ravage, and that Combat/Carnage represents the vast minority of Sentinels/Marauders, right? Also, to crit that high (and I've never seen one of mine go above 4.5k on an un-geared opponent) we have to use it in a 2-3 GCD window after using Precision Strike/Gore, which is often easier said than done.

 

I am starting to think that a big red flashing warning sign pops up whenever I use Precision Strike......that or the Imps on my server are really good with the timing of their knock-backs/stuns.

[axelgrease]

so much wrong with this thread. first off commando/merc damage was severly nerfed in an interview zoeller said the damage on those skills was reduced 30% demo round was hitting for 8k now its critting while fully raid buffed on trash mobs for 4500 high impact bolt isnt hitting any harder and full auto is hitting for 2500 crits which is on par with where it was before. The problem with commando's and merc is while they want to discourage you from using grav/tracer its what the whole spec requires to function. if you dont get your full auto buff full auto hits for 1900 crits demo round hits for 3500 and hib hits for 30% less. if you dont use grav/tracer you cant even use hib (High Impact Bolt). the problem is full auto demo round and hib have 15 second cooldowns so we can hammer shot *auto attack* or cast grav round. We'd love to have a new spam spell option or two in the tree but we don't have one. Sure we could use charged bolts but it hits for 500 less than grav round and doesn't buff demo round or allow the use of HiB. We'd love to spam full auto as its 2 ammo hits for the same damage as grav each second for 3 seconds but the proc doesn't happen enough. Realistically every 2 grav rounds we should get a full auto proc but in reality i've gone 15 seconds before being able to use full auto because the 7 grav rounds didn't cause it to trigger. Overall pre1.2 to 1.2 we have suffered about a 20-25% nerf in damage. This is not imagined its actual data

 

As far as Sentinels go I tell all of them to use this spec.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bcZMMZGMRrdfRbcz.1

 

This makes your force sweep aoe usable every 12 seconds and hits up to 5 targets around you for 7-8k. it generates mass amounts of centering and makes crit slash's free and when your zen is being used it actually generated 1 focus on non crits and 3 on crits. each time your struck you generate 2 centering 3 if its in the 50% of the time you have rebuke up your force spending moves generate 4 centering which can be used to power singularity allowing for the 7k sweeps. at 30 when playing in pvp i was getting 6k force sweeps every 12 seconds and the spec was only half way set up.

 

So yeah with pretty much a universal nerf to damage what they refered to as rebalanceding sents/mara's feel reallly really op. The fact is guardians/mauraders using focus are also opish at the moment as its the shared tree thats op. vanguards/powertechs also feel really op if played right and they also got buffs instead of nerfs. however shadow/assassins tank spec is the most broken pvp spec right now so if you want the FotM spec roll an assassin and play tank there's a ton of posts about this spec and even videos showing it in action if you want to look it up.

[Moosestick]

7-8k smash?

 

This isnt 1.0 where 50's stim stacking with pvp gear are fighting 20's. Look at the description of the video when you youtube.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Moosestick

[axelgrease]

Your right all i can say is at 37 i'm getting 6k i'll assume in full bm gear 7-8k is possible. Oh and I don't use stims or adrenals or boxes to achieve this. hmm maybe you should learn your class

 

as a side note i'm getting 4k in pve instances at 37 and thats against level 40 mobs when i stack. double damage to force sweep with guarenteed crits is amazing.

Edited April 30, 2012 by axelgrease

[Moosestick]

Your right all i can say is at 37 i'm getting 6k i'll assume in full bm gear 7-8k is possible. Oh and I don't use stims or adrenals or boxes to achieve this. hmm maybe you should learn your class

 

as a side note i'm getting 4k in pve instances at 37 and thats against level 40 mobs when i stack. double damage to force sweep with guarenteed crits is amazing.

 

learn my class, and you are claiming 8k smashes are still possible. ok.

 

Pro tip: once you hit the 50 bracket, you wont have 10-20's with no armor to bolster to inflate your numbers. Most i've been hit for by a sent/marauder smash is 2.5-3k

Edited April 30, 2012 by Moosestick

[axelgrease]

well these number are on red procing players so 42+. also very very few imps get into pvp matches under mid 30's and even less without a team who thinks they are ready. honestly while i hate the queueing system in the game this is one of the nice perks. anything someone says only on low level players bull is just that bull. on the flipside rep on my server queue quit often in the teens. maybe since your some 50's sent/maurader go spec with my spec and attack a pvp dummy. its simple test force leap in force choke to 4 singularity force sweep and record the numbers. Well maybe a little harder for you than some but i think you could manage it.

[Moosestick]

well these number are on red procing players so 42+. also very very few imps get into pvp matches under mid 30's and even less without a team who thinks they are ready. honestly while i hate the queueing system in the game this is one of the nice perks. anything someone says only on low level players bull is just that bull. on the flipside rep on my server queue quit often in the teens. maybe since your some 50's sent/maurader go spec with my spec and attack a pvp dummy. its simple test force leap in force choke to 4 singularity force sweep and record the numbers. Well maybe a little harder for you than some but i think you could manage it.

 

<3 the e-thug attituide when someone tells you that you are wrong

[MidichIorian]

....expertise has been fixed....

Hold it!

 

Oh I see what you did there. Well played!

Edited April 30, 2012 by MidichIorian

[axelgrease]

as far as that spec is bull. I am a co-gm of a guild with over 100 active players probably closer to 125-150. i've given people this spec at 50 to people who didnt even have the money to purchase full recruit gear so were using gear in the 40's for some of their pieces who really enjoyed pvp and against the premade full bm groups on our server they are hitting 5-6k on force sweep. This spec is really this broken and its even obvious pretty much from early 30's. I'd say you have one of the classes in question or you played with people who didn't have the spec and assumed the non-singularity boosted sweeps were 4x singularity boosted sweeps. I have a 37 sent and i pvp on all my characters. if I didn't think it needed adjusted as someone who plays it i wouldn't even bring it up. This spec is totally brokenly op.

[axelgrease]

<3 the e-thug attituide when someone tells you that you are wrong

 

 

as far as E-thug attitude this is how I talk this is how I talk to your face behind your back in front of your wife or mother. Its not E-thug its how people talk where i'm from. I do not appreciate you saying that i'm attempting to intimidate you when in fact i'm trying to enlighten the general forum goers to this spec. The question I was answering and you keep trying to change the subject of was why are sent/mauraders op and this is why. its the synergy of the talents that feed into a few specific abilities making them hit well outside what is normal and its likely a spec not considered or fully tested by the designers. The fact that me bringing this spec to light makes you sound like your trying to quash it from being widely distributed and thus keep it for yourself and it sounds a lot like your trying to prevent it being rebalanced.

[Viscerus]

As a marauder who has played Carnage all along:

 

My average damage (I know damage is not the best way to determine good/bad play) has actually dropped since 1.2.

 

My survivability is about the same. Undying Rage has always been a great ability, but let's face it, almost any class can easily CC the Mara/Sent until that is over, I do it when i fight other Mara/Sent all the time. If you can't figure out that seeing 5 or 7 damage popping means that he has UR active and you need to CC him, you are too stupid to deserve to win.

 

Cloak of Pain can last for what, about 30 seconds if you are being hit all the time, which granted, is usually when you use it. Saber Ward comes up once every 3 minutes. It is very easy to just wait a Mara/Sent out and smash them when they have their CDs off and are super squishy.

 

Whiners need to stop crying that they are OP because they keep trying to smash the Mara/Sent instead of killing his pocket healer.

 

about them having too much survivability... well they are one of the few classes in the game that is really melee. This is a game largely built around ranged, and that makes it hell for a lot of Mara/Sent.

 

If you feel like the Mara/Sent you are fighting are OP you either need to A) start queueing in groups, because obviously they are. B) Gear Up. C) L2P. D) Give up, you are terrible.

[Squatdog_nz]

The level of denial on this thread is hilarious.

 

Marauders didn't get buffed at all, except that...

 

 

Disruption no longer costs Rage to activate.

Intimidating Roar no longer costs Rage to activate.

Ravage can no longer be interrupted, and its damage has been increased by approximately 15%.

Vicious Throw can now be used on targets at or below 30% of maximum health (up from 20%).

Berserk (while in Ataru Form) now additionally reduces the Rage cost and global cooldown of Sweeping Slash.

Deadly Throw's "Trauma" effect can no longer be cleansed.

Force Camouflage now additionally reduces all damage taken by 50% while active.

Obfuscate no longer has a Rage cost and is no longer limited by the global cooldown.

Predation now affects all Operation Group members.

Ataru Form damage effects (procs) now deal weapon-based damage instead of Force-based damage. The overall damage of these effects has been increased by approximately 10%.

Unbound now additionally increases the movement speed bonus granted by Predation by 15% per point.

Phantom now increases the duration of Force Camouflage by 1 second per point and increases the movement speed bonus of Force Camouflage by 10% per point.

Seeping Wound now applies a 50% movement speed reduction (up from 30%).

Decimate is now located in Tier 1 of the Rage skill tree. It increases the damage dealt by Smash and Sweeping Slash and reduces the cooldown of Smash.

Dominate is now a 3-point skill with the same overall effect. The effect now lasts 20 seconds (up from 15).

Force Crush's cooldown has been reduced to 18 seconds. Its overall effect is unchanged.

Obliterate now immobilizes the target for 1 second.

Ravager now increases the damage of Ravage instead of affecting Force Choke.

Relentless Fury has been replaced by Berserker. It requires 2 points in Shockwave and causes Berserk (while in Shii-Cho Form) to immediately grant 2 stacks of Shockwave per point.

Shockwave's buff effects now last 20 seconds (up from 15).

 

Whoops!

[Moosestick]

as far as E-thug attitude this is how I talk this is how I talk to your face behind your back in front of your wife or mother. Its not E-thug its how people talk where i'm from. I do not appreciate you saying that i'm attempting to intimidate you when in fact i'm trying to enlighten the general forum goers to this spec. The question I was answering and you keep trying to change the subject of was why are sent/mauraders op and this is why. its the synergy of the talents that feed into a few specific abilities making them hit well outside what is normal and its likely a spec not considered or fully tested by the designers. The fact that me bringing this spec to light makes you sound like your trying to quash it from being widely distributed and thus keep it for yourself and it sounds a lot like your trying to prevent it being rebalanced.

 

Yes, i am trying to quash a medium dps aoe spec. You caught me and intimidated me!

[Moosestick]

The level of denial on this thread is hilarious.

 

Marauders didn't get buffed at all, except that...

 

What people are seeing is a list of buffs. They dont realize that most of them were to worthless specs, and they ignore the adjustments/"nerfs"

[Kalcombo]

as far as that spec is bull. I am a co-gm of a guild with over 100 active players probably closer to 125-150. i've given people this spec at 50 to people who didnt even have the money to purchase full recruit gear so were using gear in the 40's for some of their pieces who really enjoyed pvp and against the premade full bm groups on our server they are hitting 5-6k on force sweep. This spec is really this broken and its even obvious pretty much from early 30's. I'd say you have one of the classes in question or you played with people who didn't have the spec and assumed the non-singularity boosted sweeps were 4x singularity boosted sweeps. I have a 37 sent and i pvp on all my characters. if I didn't think it needed adjusted as someone who plays it i wouldn't even bring it up. This spec is totally brokenly op.

 

Sorry I have a marauder in Bm and WH and when I run smash spec that hardest I've ever hit (with relic and adrenal popped) is 6.9k on a full PVE geared sorc, to say people crit 5-6k without anything is a little too much, I usually do around 4k. Also it's very easy to kite a rage marauder, even with obliterate, smash isn't too hard to avoid, plus rage has no self heals like anni or roots like carnage.

 

Anyways about the thread, the ravage increase I think is fine, especially because unless the marauder is carnage you can run out of it. If they are carnage, well either stun/kb or take it, think you have to weigh the cost and benefits of doing so. I do love it when I get sorcs in my ravage, this won't help but I've pulled a 6.7k ravage, again popped everything and a full PVE sorc, most smart players will hit me out of my third hit, or knock me back when I use gore. Most of it is mainly the expertise change and how instead of 11% inc dmg and 11% dmg reduction its around 21% inc dmg and 17% reduction (guessing not 100% sure), so like people said before, TTK is shorter. Also anyone who complains that our vicious throw got changed to 30%, I'm pretty sure sniper's takedown was at 30% since launch, I never understood why it was at 20%. And if I really wanted to be a stickler, mara's got nerfed in fury generation, force camo and our 80% pred (all if you were anni) and that wasn't too bad just sayin.

[ItGetsAllOver]

The level of denial on this thread is hilarious.

 

Marauders didn't get buffed at all, except that...

 

 

Disruption no longer costs Rage to activate.

Intimidating Roar no longer costs Rage to activate.

Ravage can no longer be interrupted, and its damage has been increased by approximately 15%.

Vicious Throw can now be used on targets at or below 30% of maximum health (up from 20%).

Berserk (while in Ataru Form) now additionally reduces the Rage cost and global cooldown of Sweeping Slash.

Deadly Throw's "Trauma" effect can no longer be cleansed.

Force Camouflage now additionally reduces all damage taken by 50% while active.

Obfuscate no longer has a Rage cost and is no longer limited by the global cooldown.

Predation now affects all Operation Group members.

Ataru Form damage effects (procs) now deal weapon-based damage instead of Force-based damage. The overall damage of these effects has been increased by approximately 10%.

Unbound now additionally increases the movement speed bonus granted by Predation by 15% per point.

Phantom now increases the duration of Force Camouflage by 1 second per point and increases the movement speed bonus of Force Camouflage by 10% per point.

Seeping Wound now applies a 50% movement speed reduction (up from 30%).

Decimate is now located in Tier 1 of the Rage skill tree. It increases the damage dealt by Smash and Sweeping Slash and reduces the cooldown of Smash.

Dominate is now a 3-point skill with the same overall effect. The effect now lasts 20 seconds (up from 15).

Force Crush's cooldown has been reduced to 18 seconds. Its overall effect is unchanged.

Obliterate now immobilizes the target for 1 second.

Ravager now increases the damage of Ravage instead of affecting Force Choke.

Relentless Fury has been replaced by Berserker. It requires 2 points in Shockwave and causes Berserk (while in Shii-Cho Form) to immediately grant 2 stacks of Shockwave per point.

Shockwave's buff effects now last 20 seconds (up from 15).

 

Whoops!

 

Wait, hold up... Are you saying you only consider that ONE change a buff?