A little bit: Both Cunning crit, and crit rating crit, have diminishing returns separately. But they have the same limit. One more thing, having more cunning means you also have a larger pool of secondary stats. So if your cunning is at about 13% in its diminishing returns that seems a good goal for your crit rating too.

Hey this is a very good idea thank you for making the guide it is so much better than the way it is displayed in game. May I suggest another improvement we could all use on this list: Black Hole Enhancements are REable and fall under these same categories. Could you add an entry for each one for the cheapest piece where we can get that kind of enhancement for us to try to learn, that would then be a super valuable list to fully endgame artificers.

This isn't held up on a strong maths background but: As a rule for myself when dealing with crit on any class, instead of thinking of how much percentage you should have total, you should look at the breakdown of how much you get from crit and cunning. Unbuffed As a rule I keep the percentages received from both sources equal: 2000 cunning -> 350 crit = 33.5% unbuffed

Finally I understand what the immunity he was talking about, I just assumed he was ******* crazy saying operatives have an immunity. Evasion is barely even on my keybinds only use it for vanish, as far as I am concerned its only effect is removes dots.......

Might be derailing the OP a bit but continuing with the tank - healer discussion. KeyboardNinja, if you draw out a graph of HPS over time very accurately over each healers energy neutral rotation you should be able to see how spikey they are, and that could be connected to your data on how spikey the DtPS for each tank is. I would assume merc have a fairly constant hps, while a operative would have a very spikey one considering KI -> SP combos being around 8-9k on crits hitting in 1.5 seconds. Also could be a factor is simply thinking of how easy it is for each healer to switch away from the tank, which links into the TTK data. Also there could be a bad play off of warriors Blade(Sonic) Barrier linked with Sage bubbles, has any one looked into this, could be bad coding making them both go down for each damage, ie BB becomes much lower HPS if it is a sage healer is on the warrior.

I maybe wrong and you have a pesimistic outlook while I have an optimistic one. Ok most of this is speculation but this is the way I understand it: Character creation will be limited in some way, probably 2-4 character slots only, and probably not all the races. Leveling is gimped, you can't use Quick travel or Fleet pass, or speeder rank 2,3. This is the only playable part though. Flashpoints I assume are limited to normal modes, and maybe only tier ones, and only 1 or 2 per day.... (so nothing to do at 50 besides BoI, FE) Warzones, probably only normal with Ranked warzones becoming the subbed players only way to play, and only 3-5 per day..... (if they don't limit people to under 50 bracket outright) NO OPERATIONS at all, but if you never went many times I guess that is fine. No player trading, under 500k credit limit, 3-5 GTN listing, no non party chat. So in other words you can SLOWLY level all 8 classes to 50 for free. But AT 50 there is absolutely nothing you can do.... NOTHING..... OH and if you ever did anything from the P2P category and then went F2P it gets locked and grayed out, but still takes up space. EG. Columi+ gear, Warhero+ gear, 100%+ mounts, Legacy maybe..... Pretty much everything So I prefer to think of it as, Free trial to 50. And those of us who actually want to play will get a store full of vanity stuff. AND those of us who have already been playing will probably get 50-100% of that stores vanity stuff FOR FREE when it comes out :-) PS. imo the cartel coin allowance should be eqivallent to about 5-10 euro of real cash.

When it says limited access to warzones and flashpoints, besides X no per week, are you planning to limit the types you are allowed to enter, and how strict a policy? EG. no HMs, no Ranked Warzones? or no 50s normal FP, no 50s bracket WZs?

Operative healer here and I'd like to say how much you over exaggerate the availability of the instant heal. Operative have to have tactical advantages: (they last for 15 seconds and stack 3 times) 3 ways to get them: 1. Each time your hot ticks it has a 30% chance to grant a tactical advantage but with a 6 second cooldown. Weakness: chance based means that even if you have it on 3 players there is no guarantee it will come up every cooldown and if it is only on yourself you probably won't get one for about 12 seconds, but is a steady stream of TAs. 2. The big heal, it grants a TA and is what makes opperatives seem to heal for 7.5k. Weakness: as always very easily interruptable, and bonus is that after that the operative can't use surgical probe correctly, so interrupting this means you are interrupting most of the operatives healing abilities. 3. Shiv grants a TA, on a 6 second cooldown and 4 yard range. If pressured a operative should be using this. Weakness: melee range, not a healing ability. So a good operative will of course enter into every fight with hots up on friends and 3 TAs. But lets say your interrupts are good, that means the operative is limited to keeping hots up, and 1 surgical probe every 6-8 seconds on average. Does that sound like too much healing? Weaknesses: temptation to hold back full healing power until that sweet <30% gap, weak aoe heal which is very expensive and acts as an aura, hot lasts 18 seconds, casting probe without going into energy problems means you cast one then wait one gcd, so keeping on 3 people is just barely possible, and leaves no space for reactive single target heals. Take advantage of any of them, I know that whenever people do I start hating them and feel super weak.

I am all for this! It follows lore, and it means all 7 form are int he game. As far as I know Dooku is an inquisitor/consular that is considered master of Makashi and more known for lightsaber fights, so he could easily fall under the Assassin/Shadow category. Although remember Niman should be useful for both DPS and Heal : Force Crit should be good. And Makashi should be useful for both DPS and Tanking : So some form or dps and the 5% shield chance that is already there could fall under this buff. A nice buff picture (that will always be on) + a stance button for no reason would be fine.

btw just want to thank you and say i am impressed you manage to keep this going. When I first say almost 60 pages I thought damn a good idea I wonder how long he managed to keep going and if I can salvage the data :-P So good Job and hope you keep it up.

Short answer is you can't mod stuff from mission items tab, so enjoy everybody.

1. Voss 2. Kaleesh 3. Nautolan

The class I can say is different is Imperial Guard. Non forceusers but melee using vibro blades and vibro staves. Perfect class to put in with more than enough lore and enough epic feel to take down anything in the galaxy. (and possibly a stretch for the mirror of a revonite, in this case revonites don't use the force)

Ahh you must have missed my first post splitting the things i suggest fro the two specs: Concealment: Overload stealth generator gap closer. Lethality: 10 yard shiv connected to talent Licence to Kill tier 5. The sever tendon wouldn't really cut it for me I don't know what kindof PvE you do, maybe you are mixing it with Solo play, which in my opinion is different. What i find in instances is after any fight i stealth so i can use my better abilities and start moving to the next mob, all the warriors jump and I arrive there when it is dead. An only stealth sprint would be good enough, but that doesn't cover the long wait for out of combat that happens constantly.

I agree either a long cooldown on it or make it have about the same cooldown as leap(45 sec iirc) and a 2 minute cooldown on hiddenstrike, with maybe vanish resetting cooldown but don't think that has to be there. Or rescaling the damage again but not a fan of that path. on the lethality part I don't see a problem with Hidden strike (shoot first) openers if you want a different opener use explosive probe snipe. However if they do what I suggested Leap style move from talents then lethality would need something and letting it do full damage from 10 yards is something at least.

Healing: 1. Too many skills which can be used even if main skill is interrupted. 2. Perfect amount stuns completely lock us down but interrupts don't. They make us sweat and pray for a TA proc off our Hots. Other healers should be more slightly raised to our standard. Some skill based on Luck which can save your ***. Concealment: 1. High burst in PvP, laughable running speed due to always having to be in Stealth. 2. The high burst has been removed in last patch so i think the dps is in a good place, it is lacking a viable gap closer and reliance on stealth coupled with leaving combat mechanics cause problems. Solution 1: CastTimeStealth Solution 2: GapCloserShadowstep Lethality: 1. People don't notice the difference. 2. Worse than concealment and no different interesting mechanics make this spec useless. Would be interesting if this spec could actually work on 10 yards range completely but reliance on Shiv makes it into a fully melee spec again which is a shame.

I'd like to state what i think a gap closer is: You start a fight, they use a knockback to get you off their ledge, you use a gap closer to get you back into fight. Stealth does not fit this description because you have to run all the way back to them by that time they have moved.

I'd like to state what i think a gap closer is: You start a fight, they use a knockback to get you off their ledge, you use a gap closer to get you back into fight. Stealth does not fit this description because you have to run all the way back to them by that time they have moved.

What's bad about a 10 yard shiv? Besides the obvious naming issue. Or maybe you really do have a 10yard long shiv in your back pocket. Or maybe it is on a string ^^ In serious talk the class is styled as a heal, mid range class. So why not make the specs 1 heal, 1 close range, 1 mid range. Don't tell me lethality now counts as mid range because you can't use shiv or cull at 10 yards currently, you have to be in 4 yards.

Actually I will split it into two: Concealment: Tier 7 talent: Overload Cloaking Field. Consumes TA to move you through the shadows to your target up to 30 yard away, and allows the use of hidden strike. (Acid blade moves to tier 5, since it is through the shadows makes you drop the huttball) Lethality: Connected to Licence to Kill tier 5. Increases the range of shiv by 3yards per point. Now shiv is also 10 yards meaning your dots are 30 yards and all other damage attacks are 10 yards. Now a truly midrange spec.

Actually the bioware post was about their vision of the class not about class performance. Although they do refer back to their hated phrase of "within the same 5% "grace window"" that is the only fault I find in this post. The question was : Elaborate on what role you see deception Assassins playing. And their answer was a hit and run type action, if you want to survive play Darkness, if you want higher damage through dots and roots and aoe play Madness. Comparing it to other classes is not what they were asked to do so their answer covered what it should have.

I don't understand peoples need to be able to do anything with any spec, I think that reply was pretty much perfection in terms of game designer replys. If you want to play easy team play dps play Madness. Deception was designed and is unique in being a hit and run spec. I give Bioware 10 out of 10 for writing this and staying their ground.

I don't know how well liked this suggestion will be but... Shadowstep would be perfect, step through the shadows to behind your target allowing the use of Hidden Strike. In PvP acts like Warrior leap which might be too much of a buff, so (since it is through the shadows) it should make you drop the huttball. Also I would suggest placing it at the top of Concealment tree, while moving moving Acid Blade to tier 5 removing Advanced Cloaking as obsolete. (only drawback is lethality would feel very crippled comparing)

It is a shame to see this thread die out so I will bump it. This thread seems to have two very important discussions going: 1. We need more people to provide datalogs of their Boss fights in the various raids so that we can figure out the actual percent split of the damage types. 2. We need more people to provide real, attainable, and equal item level gear stats from all 3 different kinds of tanks. Lastly if someone feels up to looking through the 3 tanking specs and comparing the exact ability mechanics looking for differences that would be nice too, just small things like: HD FL vs. Blade Barrier vs. ? PS. I have a sorc and a healer operative in a normal/HM T1 guild so unfortunately can't provide my own details to help but am very interested to see what real values come up out of this thread, so that we can show it to people at a later date. PPS. Please don't reply to this with a link to this BW quote, because they could be confusing the numbers. When they say "significantly more" they might mean "significantly more than expected". http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-june-22nd-2012 This is a thread requesting experimental test data please do not use theoretical arguments or "I heard it is like this" arguments unless you can link a data set which shows it. Thank you.

This is the misunderstanding that everyone in this thread has this is not a theoretical discussion: A theoretical discussion states, at best case scenario I will heal X What is written in this thread is: In an example of a scenario I did heal Y People have to see the difference between those two, if you have equal skill with KeyboardNinja you should get as much HPS and survivability out of the spell.