Myths About Marauders

[Seravis]

Everything I hear about marauders nowadays is that they are unkillable and uncounterable tanks that 2 shot everything with ravage and are unbeatable in 1v1 and so on. So I feel like I should clear up some of these "myths".

 

Myth #1- Marauders are the best 1v1 class.

 

I'll start by saying. NOPE. In fact marauders actually lose to A LOT of classes 1v1. I will list the classes that will beat marauders given equal gear and skill.

 

Tankassins

DPS operatives

Snipers

Vigilance Juggernauts

 

Those are 4/7 of the other classes that when played correctly will beat a marauder in 1v1. Other classes are either stalemates or in the marauders favor. Most notably Marauders have a very large advantage against Mercenaries and Sorcerers. This is probably the biggest reason marauders are catching so much hate. They counter the two most popular classes played.

 

 

Myth #2 - Marauders are harder to kill than tanks.

 

Again. NOPE. To prove this just have a marauder try to carrying the huttball with 2-3 healers behind him. He will die in <30 seconds from 6+ dps simply because his defenses are very temporary. Now take a Tank Juggernaut with 2-3 healers behind him. He can /dance for hours with 6 dps hitting him(especially if they are marauders who have to deal with their shields unlike most classes)

 

Also god forbid a pure melee class with 0 frontloaded damage and minimal CC isn't easily focus fired and killed for 12 seconds if they burn their 3 min CD defense.

 

 

Myth #3 - Marauders are unstoppable in Group PVP.

 

Surprise. NOPE. To start with marauders get absolutely destroyed by Snipers in group pvp. The fact that their aren't many is a problem, but not a reason to nerf Marauders. Secondly Marauders do exceedingly well against Arsenal Mercs and Sorcerers. The fact is there are A LOT sorcerers and mercs running around and so Marauders tend to do very well against these teams. Marauders also don't handle any kind of Tank well at all in PVP due to the majority of their damage being mitigated by Shields.

 

So basically marauders counter the most popular classes while being countered themselves by the least popular class. Solution? Find a few good snipers to PVP with, or better yet stop playing a sorcerer/trooper and reroll Sniper if you want to win vs marauders easily. It will fix the population imbalance AND help counter marauders. So basically like the other 99% of things complained about on the forums "There are counters to the problem that you should be using instead of trying to nerf everything that has an advantage over you. If you don't know what they are then ask someone who does know.".

 

Myth #4- Marauders are finally topping "Damage Done" in WZs

 

NOP......Actually this isn't a myth. Marauders are now actually competing for the top dps slot along with classes like Sorcerers/Pyrotechs/Snipers. I don't really see how this is a problem though. 99% of marauders rolled the class because they wanted to do the most damage in the game. They decided it was worth sacrificing the option to ever tank, or to heal, or to have gaurd/taunt, or to have a pull/knockback, or having good CC, or to have any ranged abilities. So basically you have a class that sacrifices basically EVERYTHING just to have top spot for damage dealing. So now that they actually are competing for that top spot people are complaining about it?

Myth #5- Marauders are unkiteable.

 

In a 1v1 battle I will agree that it is very difficult to impossible for most classes to kite a well played marauder for very long and this is fine(However a hybrid Sorc or Sniper can do a VERY good job of kiting 1v1). However in a group setting where you have 2-3 ranged classes with aoe knockback+roots on ~30s CD it happens quite a bit. Marauders have no real way to remain in melee combat with 3 snipers/sorcerers that chain JUST their aoe knockbacks. Now currently this is almost never seen in the current unorganized mess of PVP we have going on right now, but it does in fact happen with some regularity where a marauder is overwhelmed by soft CC like knockback/roots and is unable to even do ANY damage. All the ledges in many of the WZs and the fact that roots are not affected by resolve does not help at all.

 

 

So the next time you are making a post about how Overpowered Marauders are. Please don't over exaggerated about how a marauder is some kind of unstoppable force of nature with no counters, because that just isn't true. Are marauders in need of a few tweaks here and there? I don't know actually because like 99% of the people on these forums I am not in a position to judge something as complex as MMO class balance. But if you must argue for or against marauder nerfs please try to base it on something more substantial than "OMG marauders counter everything and there is an 8 man premade of marauders that beats everything"

 

Edit- Apparently most of the anti-Marauder, or maybe I should say Anti-FOTM, crowd didn't even bother to read the last sentence, but I will say I did actually enjoy the "I win all 1v3s on my Marauder! enjoy the nerfs to your OP class" post. Well carry on everyone.

 

TLDR- NOPE.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Seravis

[Zunayson]

Shhh... your logic is showing! This. Is. A. PvP. Forum!

 

[exphryl]

Shhh... your logic is showing! This. Is. A. PvP. Forum!

 

 

Didn't see logic. Saw a lot of "Don't nerf me bro" masked with random paragraphcs.

[kevlarto]

Myth busters been here : )

[Zunayson]

Didn't see logic. Saw a lot of "Don't nerf me bro" masked with random paragraphcs.

 

Snipers tear marauders all day. I play a sniper, I quit my marauder after being stereotyped all the time... I played a sentinel back when guardians were the ****!

[jerbakz]

gunslinger here.

 

yes we do kill marauders easily. not just that, but we can keep them away from healers for so long. knockback root, root shot, low blow, flash grenade... we can even disable the marauder while hitting other targets.

[Enhancer]

LOL tired thread is tired............

 

There are three more of these posts just today, seriously. So face it, changes are coming, there is nothing these posts are going to do to stop it.

[xxdragonragexx]

I have a marauder, and I'll tell people the truth and facts.

 

Myth 1 - Marauders kill people in 1 hit or 1 global cooldown.

False. It takes 3 abilities and 3-4 global cooldown. I'll kill 1 guy and live with still 75% health then proceed to killing his buddy by using 90% accuracy debuff. I should have 25% health left. I will then go for the next one, pop 99% dmg reduction, kill the guy in 6 seconds then regain my health back.

 

Myth 2 - Marauders are squishy

False. With 99% dmg reduction, 20% dmg reduction and stealth, I hardly ever die.

Only people that see red and charge blindly die. But they usually kill their target anyway so it is all good.

 

Myth 3 - Snipers are hard to kill

This is actually very wrong. I use deadly saber, as walking to the sniper. Dude gets me at half health. Then when I'm near, he punts me back. I then use stealth, get near him. Then proceed to own his face.

[pwnshoppe]

I have a marauder, and I'll tell people the truth and facts.

 

Myth 1 - Marauders kill people in 1 hit or 1 global cooldown.

False. It takes 3 abilities and 3-4 global cooldown. I'll kill 1 guy and live with still 75% health then proceed to killing his buddy by using 90% accuracy debuff. I should have 25% health left. I will then go for the next one, pop 99% dmg reduction, kill the guy in 6 seconds then regain my health back.

 

Myth 2 - Marauders are squishy

False. With 99% dmg reduction, 20% dmg reduction and stealth, I hardly ever die.

Only people that see red and charge blindly die. But they usually kill their target anyway so it is all good.

 

Myth 3 - Snipers are hard to kill

This is actually very wrong. I use deadly saber, as walking to the sniper. Dude gets me at half health. Then when I'm near, he punts me back. I then use stealth, get near him. Then proceed to own his face.

 

I play a marauder and these are my experiences as well.

[Odahviin]

Everything I hear about marauders nowadays is that they are unkillable and uncounterable tanks that 2 shot everything with ravage and are unbeatable in 1v1 and so on. So I feel like I should clear up some of these "myths".

 

Myth #1- Marauders are the best 1v1 class.

 

I'll start by saying. NOPE. In fact marauders actually lose to A LOT of classes 1v1. I will list the classes that will beat marauders given equal gear and skill.

 

Tankassins

DPS operatives

Snipers

Vigilance Juggernauts

 

Those are 4/7 of the other classes that when played correctly will beat a marauder in 1v1. Other classes are either stalemates or in the marauders favor. Most notably Marauders have a very large advantage against Mercenaries and Sorcerers. This is probably the biggest reason marauders are catching so much hate. They counter the two most popular classes played.

 

 

Myth #2 - Marauders are harder to kill than tanks.

 

Again. NOPE. To prove this just have a marauder try to carrying the huttball with 2-3 healers behind him. He will die in <30 seconds from 6+ dps simply because his defenses are very temporary. Now take a Tank Juggernaut with 2-3 healers behind him. He can /dance for hours with 6 dps hitting him(especially if they are marauders who have to deal with their shields unlike most classes)

 

Also god forbid a pure melee class with 0 frontloaded damage and minimal CC isn't easily focus fired and killed for 12 seconds if they burn their 3 min CD defense.

 

 

Myth #3 - Marauders are unstoppable in Group PVP.

 

Surprise. NOPE. To start with marauders get absolutely destroyed by Snipers in group pvp. The fact that their aren't many is a problem, but not a reason to nerf Marauders. Secondly Marauders do exceedingly well against Arsenal Mercs and Sorcerers. The fact is there are A LOT sorcerers and mercs running around and so Marauders tend to do very well against these teams. Marauders also don't handle any kind of Tank well at all in PVP due to the majority of their damage being mitigated by Shields.

 

So basically marauders counter the most popular classes while being countered themselves by the least popular class. Solution? Find a few good snipers to PVP with, or better yet stop playing a sorcerer/trooper and reroll Sniper if you want to win vs marauders easily. It will fix the population imbalance AND help counter marauders. So basically like the other 99% of things complained about on the forums "There are counters to the problem that you should be using instead of trying to nerf everything that has an advantage over you. If you don't know what they are then ask someone who does know.".

 

Myth #4- Marauders are finally topping "Damage Done" in WZs

 

NOP......Actually this isn't a myth. Marauders are now actually competing for the top dps slot along with classes like Sorcerers/Pyrotechs/Snipers. I don't really see how this is a problem though. 99% of marauders rolled the class because they wanted to do the most damage in the game. They decided it was worth sacrificing the option to ever tank, or to heal, or to have gaurd/taunt, or to have a pull/knockback, or having good CC, or to have any ranged abilities. So basically you have a class that sacrifices basically EVERYTHING just to have top spot for damage dealing. So now that they actually are competing for that top spot people are complaining about it?

Myth #5- Marauders are unkiteable.

 

In a 1v1 battle I will agree that it is very difficult to impossible for most classes to kite a well played marauder for very long and this is fine(However a hybrid Sorc or Sniper can do a VERY good job of kiting 1v1). However in a group setting where you have 2-3 ranged classes with aoe knockback+roots on ~30s CD it happens quite a bit. Marauders have no real way to remain in melee combat with 3 snipers/sorcerers that chain JUST their aoe knockbacks. Now currently this is almost never seen in the current unorganized mess of PVP we have going on right now, but it does in fact happen with some regularity where a marauder is overwhelmed by soft CC like knockback/roots and is unable to even do ANY damage. All the ledges in many of the WZs and the fact that roots are not affected by resolve does not help at all.

 

 

So the next time you are making a post about how Overpowered Marauders are. Please don't over exaggerated about how a marauder is some kind of unstoppable force of nature with no counters, because that just isn't true. Are marauders in need of a few tweaks here and there? I don't know actually because like 99% of the people on these forums I am not in a position to judge something as complex as MMO class balance. But if you must argue for or against marauder nerfs please try to base it on something more substantial than "OMG marauders counter everything and there is an 8 man premade of marauders that beats everything"

 

TLDR- NOPE.

 

Great in depth post, you outlined the exact misinformed issues mara / sent players are facing. I appreciate the effort and don't let all the trolls get you down.

[Varicite]

I have a marauder, and I'll tell people the truth and facts.

 

Myth 1 - Marauders kill people in 1 hit or 1 global cooldown.

False. It takes 3 abilities and 3-4 global cooldown. I'll kill 1 guy and live with still 75% health then proceed to killing his buddy by using 90% accuracy debuff. I should have 25% health left. I will then go for the next one, pop 99% dmg reduction, kill the guy in 6 seconds then regain my health back.

 

Myth 2 - Marauders are squishy

False. With 99% dmg reduction, 20% dmg reduction and stealth, I hardly ever die.

Only people that see red and charge blindly die. But they usually kill their target anyway so it is all good.

 

Myth 3 - Snipers are hard to kill

This is actually very wrong. I use deadly saber, as walking to the sniper. Dude gets me at half health. Then when I'm near, he punts me back. I then use stealth, get near him. Then proceed to own his face.

 

I kinda find this to be closer to the truth as well, though Snipers do kill my Mara. :c

 

I won't lie, I'm not that great on the Mara yet.

[V-Serp]

I play a marauder and these are my experiences as well.

 

Same with me. My theory is half the Marauders simply never put most of their abilities on their bar. There is another thread where a guy claims Undying Rage and stealth are both "jokes" and he doesn't use those abilities. He also does not use battering assault so he has issues with rage generation.

 

Well...yeah, if you don't use the abilities, keyboard turn, and just use the default attack all day I guess the class isn't very good. Most Maras apparently just use force charge every 12s and that's it. Well, the ones on these forums at any rate. In actual play even the clicking keyboard turners do use their abilities, although not as well or as often as the players with a pulse.

 

I think the biggest myths are that Mara is hard to play, that it has not been buffed at all since release (these people want everyone to just ignore patch notes) and that everyone that plays Mara and only plays Mara but was a terrible player before 1.2 is suddenly now very skilled and it's not the class itself.

[WookieBob]

Forum posts are OP, nerf em

[Varicite]

I think the biggest myths are that Mara is hard to play, that it has not been buffed at all since release (these people want everyone to just ignore patch notes) and that everyone that plays Mara and only plays Mara but was a terrible player before 1.2 is suddenly now very skilled and it's not the class itself.

 

I agree w/ the first part, but the rest I think is subjective.

 

I personally think it's more a case of the other classes in the game being nerfed than Maras being buffed incredibly (they weren't, most Maras are Annihilation anyway, and were nerfed very slightly overall).

 

I think there's also a little bit of envy from classes who were already getting torn apart by Maras pre-1.2 getting nerfed while Maras (and Tankasins) remained relatively unscathed. Not only are people getting used to new playstyles, but they are getting hit harder, and healing is not as strong as it once was.

 

Marauders are a strong class; they always were.

 

The biggest myth of all? That Marauders are somehow much stronger after 1.2 than they were before. They aren't; the rest of us are just a bit weaker now.

[LancelotOC]

Another myth is that the marauder is a melee class. The only thing melee about it's design are the graphics. It plays like a ranged class because it can attack anyone it wants from range... omg!

 

And where other ranged classes use interuptable casted abilities the marauder uses instas. I said it in the first few weeks when everyone was crying Marauders were weak in pvp, with it's ranged insta design it will rule in the hands of even a noob. People laughed as they will now .. such is life.

 

And with it's jump it effectively covers more distance than force speed in less time. And while Force speed is on a 30 second cooldown force charge is on a 15 second. Everyone complains but they don't understand what's wrong. BW metrics are supposedly meeting their internal goals but they must not be considering everything in their math.

[Varicite]

Another myth is that the marauder is a melee class. The only thing melee about it's design are the graphics. It plays like a ranged class because it can attack anyone it wants from range... omg!

 

And where other ranged classes use interuptable casted abilities the marauder uses instas. I said it in the first few weeks when everyone was crying Marauders were weak in pvp, with it's ranged insta design it will rule in the hands of even a noob. People laughed as they will now .. such is life.

 

And with it's jump it effectively covers more distance than force speed in less time. And while Force speed is on a 30 second cooldown force charge is on a 15 second. Everyone complains but they don't understand what's wrong. BW metrics are supposedly meeting their internal goals but they must not be considering everything in their math.

 

By this logic, there are NO melee classes in the game, period.

 

But since that's the case, Marauders have the fewest ranged abilities, making them the most melee class.

 

/shrug

[LancelotOC]

Well do you agree with the logic or not? Because if you do then you are indirectly supposting no class should have interuptable casted abilities or all should have instas. Just asking because people laughed at me at release when i said it to those crying Marauders were weak and I'm genuinly curious if the past 4 months has changed anything.

[Varicite]

Well do you agree with the logic or not? Because if you do then you are indirectly supposting no class should have interuptable casted abilities or all should have instas. Just asking because people laughed at me at release when i said it to those crying Marauders were weak and I'm genuinly curious if the past 4 months has changed anything.

 

Um, I don't agree that Marauders are a ranged class because they can jump. <.<

 

I also think that different abilities are different, but I do think that the casted abilities should hit hard (which most do).

[Anbokr]

Seriously, my operative destroys marauders all day every day.

[LancelotOC]

Well for balancing how do you personally define a ranged class? Do you ever consider it a class that has the advantage of being at range vs. classes that have to close range to do DPS?

 

I define melee classes as classes that have to suffer damage as they close to an enemy. As such they need mitigation to make up for this handicap vs. a ranged class. I also think likewise a ranged class should have less mitigation since it has the advantage of range.

[Dacer]

I have a marauder, and I'll tell people the truth and facts.

 

Myth 1 - Marauders kill people in 1 hit or 1 global cooldown.

False. It takes 3 abilities and 3-4 global cooldown. I'll kill 1 guy and live with still 75% health then proceed to killing his buddy by using 90% accuracy debuff. I should have 25% health left. I will then go for the next one, pop 99% dmg reduction, kill the guy in 6 seconds then regain my health back.

 

as a valor 80 marauder - this doesn't happen. If you are fighting full BM geared players that are even half decent you aren't going to kill all three of them in what ~30seconds with no help and heals. just isnt going to happen. Complete misinformation.

 

Myth 2 - Marauders are squishy

False. With 99% dmg reduction, 20% dmg reduction and stealth, I hardly ever die.

Only people that see red and charge blindly die. But they usually kill their target anyway so it is all good.

 

So you do one of three things if you hardly ever die - anytime you think you might lose you camo away, you get in a fight-you start to lose and you camo away- drop combat in a corner and heal. Or you have a healer with you. solo que maras are supposed to be IN the fight you hardly ever dying tell me you have heals and are playing against really bad players. But more the point - if we dont have all 3 defensive CDs up we are squishy. If the other team ignores you while you run around hitting them then they are bad, if 2 of them get on you and you don't have them all up you/re CC'd and melted.

 

Myth 3 - Snipers are hard to kill

This is actually very wrong. I use deadly saber, as walking to the sniper. Dude gets me at half health. Then when I'm near, he punts me back. I then use stealth, get near him. Then proceed to own his face.

 

I see you are annhlation spec - those do better against ranged, but still No a good sniper can be a hard nut to crack. and like the OP said two snipers on you and you have no hope but to camo and run - but I think you do that a lot anyway.

 

 

I can see you have a mara alt what is your main a BH or a Socs?

[Dacer]

Another myth is that the marauder is a melee class. The only thing melee about it's design are the graphics. It plays like a ranged class because it can attack anyone it wants from range... omg!

 

And where other ranged classes use interuptable casted abilities the marauder uses instas. I said it in the first few weeks when everyone was crying Marauders were weak in pvp, with it's ranged insta design it will rule in the hands of even a noob. People laughed as they will now .. such is life.

 

And with it's jump it effectively covers more distance than force speed in less time. And while Force speed is on a 30 second cooldown force charge is on a 15 second. Everyone complains but they don't understand what's wrong. BW metrics are supposedly meeting their internal goals but they must not be considering everything in their math.

 

You can't possibly believe this?

 

the are 3 ranged moves but to actually be able to kill someone you have to be at 4meters. Why? OH thats right we have to be in 4meters to use our rage builders to gain resources to actually be able to DO any of those ranged attacks. weird.

 

As for Force charge - its our gap closer. it hardly does any damage and it builds a little rage for us. and unless you are annilation spec you have to be atleast 10metes away to use it.

 

a ranged class = someone that can stay are 30m and spam tracer/forcelighting/snipe/grav

melee class = to do the same damage you have to be 4m away.

 

 

get real....

[Lugh]

Well for balancing how do you personally define a ranged class? Do you ever consider it a class that has the advantage of being at range vs. classes that have to close range to do DPS?

 

I define melee classes as classes that have to suffer damage as they close to an enemy. As such they need mitigation to make up for this handicap vs. a ranged class. I also think likewise a ranged class should have less mitigation since it has the advantage of range.

There is no such thing as a ranged class if I can not even finish casting an ability before the opponent is perched on my face doing obscene things to me...

[Twin]

TL;DR of this thread:

 

We have concluded that there are no Melee classes ingame, since there are gapclosers - as well as that there are no ranged classes, since there are gap closers.

[Tyranoc]

If you cannot kill a marauder you are either:

 

A: Undergeared

 

B: A noob

 

 

Ajunta Pall players can kill marauders. Why cant the rest of you monkeys?

 

So which is it? A or B?