Expertise - the Debate Thread, Place your Vote!

[DirtyDiggler]

its not needed

[DarkHelsing]

updated

[Karkais]

 

I don't understand how anyone can even take up the "it is not needed" side of the argument. PvE grinders who PvP now and then should not have gear that crushes a PvP grinder's gear.

 

I cant understand how anyone can even take up the "its needed" side of the argument.

 

I have an idea for a new thread: Remove PvP.

 

Actually I think PVP in this game is rather nice. Too bad devs had to slap an artificial extra grinding system into it.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Karkais

[Visue]

It is not needed.

 

There needs to be a way to gear up through PvP, but why do we need to rely on stats beyond the fundamental ones on which classes are based?

Edited April 27, 2012 by Visue

[DweezillKagemand]

0 - It is needed

 

I could care less about running operations. I could care less about running Hardmodes. Doing my dailies on Corellia is like pulling teeth.

 

I will never have the sort of no pvp gear that the carebears on my server will have.

 

Expertise guanrtees that all their riad gear means nothing in a warzone. Just as my pvp gear won't be enough to let me compete in a nightmare mode, their raid gear won't be enough to let them compete in PVP.

 

I couldn't* care less.

 

You Americans...

[AlyxDinas]

It is not needed. However, I'm certain it will remain and thus, I'd say that even though the change to the formula is not a massive change, it warrants some degree of revision.

[customkb]

It looked like you typed a lot after that, probably spent some time doing so... but I only made it as far as the above partial sentence and the lone brain cell in my mind, after crying over his broken eyeglasses (there was time now), had an epiphany - with my tiny brain there's no possible way I'd ever be able to comprehend such brilliance that makes up your responses, the sheer modesty, the overwhelming compassion towards others, I am just not capable of being able to fathom something of such depth and insight... so I took a bite out of the cold hard truth of that which has been staring me in the face all this time... and that truth is...

Hmm, I forgot, tiny brain you know.

 

Thanks for your vote.

 

Finally, he gets it. OK everyone, thread is finished, you can go home now.

[TheGilberts]

my vote : NEEDED

 

my opinion:

 

@ OP - PvP & PvE is different - pve players kill bugs & cave dwelling hermits - pvp players....well...we kill YOU - different play styles, different tactics, different gear...while you guys are fighting a scripted NPC - we are fighting on the spot, quick thinking people (hopefully)

 

both avenues of the game are legit & work fine alot of people have said in this massive QQ fest that ALL PvE stats are viable in PvP.....how many of you are tanks in PvP? - yes yes yes tanks are viable i know, i am one - but are all our stats viable? our damage reduction?...if you don't know you shouldn't have started this thread.

 

now as for the Gear VS Gear theory, yep its true - we have our gear & you have yours - its called choices - I call it PvE VS PvP - you made your choice as did everyone else here who wants pvp nerfed.

 

people are saying all the stats should be smoothed out like the 10-49 bracket - why the hell would i want to have a "Fair" fight with a level 10? or a level 40? or even a level 49? - i'm level capped, i don't wanna "play fight" with your uncles "special needs kid" ...i wanna slap some faces & pull some scrubs into the acid pits....and if am quick enough, good enough, or just lucky - i get to walk away...even the most geared players go down son & i am far from even having a full BM set, the blues work great atm.

 

if you wanna play a game that dumbed down so much that even some kid born without a brain, no eyes on life support can get the best endgame gear.....go buy a wow subscription, players like you & your supporters are the reason wow is dying(imo died), why do you think the next playable race is a panda for christs sake?...

 

this game isn't even a year old & you care bears are trying to destroy it.....oh my lord.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

oh but your point? no i didn't miss that - you want to pvp with us? then die, die some more, then die again - keep doing this till your on par, we all did it, why shouldn't you?

 

I spent my credits bought the "Crappy" blues & you know what?....i have fun....thats spelt F U N....what games are supposed to be, players like you could suck moisture out of the sun i swear to god.

 

for example : when people are calling out for a tank in general chat....so desperate.....i don't reply...why? because i don't want too? possibly....but mainly it's because i am geared for pvp...I live with the choice i made....I could get mad, all butthurt & make a massive rant thread on the forums...but that's not me, I Play PvP - every match is different & no same tactic works twice...unless your playing a bunch of PvE players *giggle*

 

if you ask me, maybe if they made you PvE guys fight harder boss fights with super AI.....a tiny bit of death in pvp wouldn't trouble you so much...you seeing where im going with this???

 

but since the hardest part of PvE is learning a pre scripted event... & making sure you stick to the "variables" so you can win....lol what?!?

 

pvp does not & will not ever work like that, it's random, it can be easy, it can be hard, but it is never predictable - thats why WE like it, even if you do not.

 

oh & im not interested in your reply, i just spent 40 mins reading 26 pages of people trying desperately to destroy what could be an epic MMO & wish to leave you with this parting thought...

 

you players are what is wrong with the gaming industry.

[eclipce]

my vote : NEEDED

 

my opinion:

 

me me me me me me me me me me and me me me me me and more me me me m...

 

Same as everyone else basically, we all want something but why cant it be balanced towards all those who enjoy all aspects - not only "PvP or leave!", or "Raid or leave!"

 

If you are so hardcore a pvp player, why play swtor in the first place? - serious question.

Edited April 27, 2012 by eclipce

[xxdragonragexx]

Same as everyone else basically, we all want something but why cant it be balanced towards all those who enjoy all aspects - not only "PvP or leave!", or "Raid or leave!"

 

If you are so hardcore a pvp player, why play swtor in the first place? - serious question.

 

He is just enjoying the game and knows why there is a pvp stat and mechanics or systems in place. What makes you think he is hardcore? - serious question.

Edited April 27, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[TheGilberts]

Same as everyone else basically, we all want something but why cant it be balanced towards all those who enjoy all aspects - not only "PvP or leave!", or "Raid or leave!"

 

If you are so hardcore a pvp player, why play swtor in the first place? - serious question.

 

against my better judgement i will reply...

 

a) i like starwars

b) i like the story

c) the whole game is built around the premise of war between republic & empire

d) all the PvE players are tired of fighting & want easy mode - soldiers of war are not made by getting them to take the easy road.

e) i can sell you my old wow account if you like, ill give you $50 to go play it, i'll even name your panda character for you (see im a nice guy)

 

good night.

[eclipce]

He is just enjoying the game and knows why there is a pvp stat and mechanics or systems in place. What makes you think he is hardcore? - serious question.

 

read the post I "quoted" - tho "but since the hardest part of PvE is learning a pre scripted event... & making sure you stick to the "variables" so you can win....lol what?!?" - kinda gives the impression..

[meowgodofcats]

Needed.

 

Didn't read all the responses and frankly I don't care to. Simply put, expertise and pvp gear give me something to do other than grind for damage and survivability gear in ops. I get a sense of accomplishment after killing a bunch of dudes with double my expertise and earning my "right" to kick their butts even more by gearing up and heading back into the fray. I was hugely disappointed right after 1.2 due to the difference in expertise from a fresh 50 and fully geared BM's but now that I've put the time in and leveled out I can safely say they balanced the sh** out of pvp and made me happy while doing so.

 

To fresh 50, just buy the recruit gear and head in. Strategize, learn your opponents and you'll have BM+ gear in no time, EARN YOUR MEDALS!

[lilletante]

It is needed:

 

It is needed.

The simple truth is that if a game developer chose to create PvE encounters that where challenging and fun, gear inflation would not be the driver for participating in new ones. If stat inflation was balanced across the board(read: we had hit points to effectively counter damage stat inflation), we would not need an individual stat to prevent stat inflation from destroying balance.

 

amen!

(same goes for PvP; make it fun 'not' grindie please (is grindie a word?))

Edited April 27, 2012 by lilletante

[eclipce]

against my better judgement i will reply...

 

a) i like starwars

b) i like the story

c) the whole game is built around the premise of war between republic & empire

d) all the PvE players are tired of fighting & want easy mode - soldiers of war are not made by getting them to take the easy road.

e) i can sell you my old wow account if you like, ill give you $50 to go play it, i'll even name your panda character for you (see im a nice guy)

 

good night.

 

newer ever played WoW, so thank you- but no thanks hehe.

 

A trough C. I agree- but D.. (bust'a'rhyme*) - it's about enoying all aspects, but that does seem to get trough in any of these pvp and expertise threads/posts. Point is that if you did not like A trough C, I'd have a hard time figuring out why play SWTOR for the PvP of it, that is all.

[Mookind]

Wow this is such a simple question can't believe there are 27 pages on it

 

Of course its needed.

 

Why even put ranked WZs in if PVE gear is going to mirror or better its PvP counterpart. Why would i bother trying to be the best on my server when all i have to do is go kill a boss?

 

You guys think there isn't anything to do at 50 now? Imagine if PvP and PvE gear progression mirrored each other.....lol

Edited April 27, 2012 by Mookind

[Dee-Jay]

Vote: It isn't needed!

 

Expertise is designed to cancel itself out so it doesn't have a direct effect on PvP fights.

 

The sole purpose of Expertise is to segregate PvP and PvE progression, forcing players to grind both paths instead of doing whatever they prefer.

 

This is an outdated concept introduced to MMOs when WoW implemented Resilience. It is not needed any more.

 

What people seem to forget is that people who primarily PvP, already have and advantage over those who don't, simply due to their experience and class knowledge. You don't/shouldn't need gear to further segregate the game.

[Odahviin]

Needed

[Valianth]

No needed!

 

Do not create WoW 2.0. Any in this game make present youreself in PvP:wea_03:

[rimcheg]

It is not needed.

[eclipce]

Wow this is such a simple question can't believe there are 27 pages on it

 

Of course its needed.

 

Why even put ranked WZs in if PVE gear is going to mirror or better its PvP counterpart. Why would i bother trying to be the best on my server when all i have to do is go kill a boss?

 

You guys think there isn't anything to do at 50 now? Imagine if PvP and PvE gear progression mirrored each other.....lol

 

EDIT/FIXED: bother trying to GEAR your self to be the best on your server

 

- your ability to farm WZ on "numb mode" does not make you a better Player Vs Player -

Edited April 27, 2012 by eclipce

[skidrows]

How does the 10-49 bracket function then, most players have a blast in that bracket and it doesn't use Expertise. So why have Bolster and Expertise?

 

With raid gear can you have before lvl 50? none, so if they remove raid, ops, FP sure then it is not needed, but what should they players that want to raid and so do then?

[Magnesium]

You need expertise to put a divide between PvP and PvE gear. If such a divide did not exist then raiding guilds who can put in the time/effort/numbers will always be the best in PvP for that reason and leave the short term solo player with no chance to compete (and I'm in a guild that has/will always get top end PvE completed).

 

The bigger problem for me is that Expertise should actually effect PvP more, but they need to tweak the numbers more so you need more expertise and less PvE mods cause right now a smart player will easily work out that the whole "Expertise is King" in PvP is a lie and if you break down individually each mod/enhancement you will see it is not quiet so the case.

[Darth_Philar]

Ideal solution:

Removal of all stats from gear while in Warzones, then receive a bolster effect.

 

 

Acceptable solution keeping Expertise:

Removal of healing and damage boosts from Expertise (leaving only the damage reduction boost).

[anstalt]

I think expertise is needed

 

Reason: to keep pvp and pve gear separate so you can control balance etc. We don't want hardcore raiders dominating pvp due to gear imbalance, and likewise we don't want hardcore pvp players dominating pve due to gear imbalance.

 

However, i don't agree with the current implementation of expertise.

 

In my opinion, pre-50 there should be 0 expertise.

 

Post 50, all pvp sets should have a fixed amount of expertise, say 1000. So, recruit set has 1000 total, WH has 1000 total. This prevents pve players pvping in pve gear, but it also stops expertise being another inflated stat that widens the gear gap. Keep normal stat progression on pvp gear, just not expertise progression.