Powertechs

[Kovaos]

Give Powertechs the defensive CDs sents/mars have. Sents and mars defend themselves by saying their CDs are on such long cool downs then this should be fine for power techs to have since the CDs are so long.

 

While we are at can my classes have these CDs too? (sage and shadow)

Edited April 26, 2012 by Kovaos

[Varicite]

I didn't say tank cell, I said tank/cell (or in other words, tank or cell). For vanguard it is cell, for PT it is gas tank (or cylinder rather) but that's what I meant by tank/cell.

 

 

 

You can also get dots from just shooting a few times easily, and that costs no heat.

 

You can't really shutdown dots from a pyro, it is almost garrantee to be on target most of the time.

 

Ah, my misunderstanding, I apologize.

 

If a Pyro is wasting a few GCDs on trying to proc their 16% chance DoT from spamming extremely low damage auto-attacks, that is pretty much a best-case scenario for you. Congratulations, you've just found a moron, and you may commence w/ your free kill. : )

[aRtFuL]

What you are doing here is falling into a common misconception that you are better off healing than wasting the gcd on dispelling the DoT, especially since they can just reapply it soon thereafter. What you WANT is for them to have to reapply it. The sooner they overheat, the better your chances of survival.

 

That is operating under the assumption that a) you are the healer or b) the healer will doing cleanses don't also waste their gcd. While the healer is removing the DoT it also inhabitants them from doing their thing. In addition to the fact that as a Van/PT you have to use Ion Pulse/Flame Burst sometimes anyways, in which also garrantees to apply DoT again. And as mention, you normal shot 3 to 4 times you will probably get the DoT back anyways.

 

Also a good PT will use his HiB right after a DoT move to increase his burst potential (with the AP already stucked on target), so there will pretty much be no time for you to remove it before HiB occurs.

 

From my experiences there is almost no chance that a Van/PT be out of ammo/overheat in a head to head fight (since we can also emergency recharge or vent heat) so operating under that assumption, from my experience, is also faulted.

 

If it was a large group fight I will be conserving ammo anyways to burst on a guy with low health, not to just start on any freshies, so once again the cleansing will do very little.

[KBSIP]

chance to proc a burning effect from rapid shots is under 20%, fairly rare. every rapid shots used is a very low damage attack, and when they aren't proccing their DoT you have full motion and kiting ability.

 

The point here is that every GCD diverted from being a railshot is a victory for the healer, and if you get it to the point where they arent even using moderate damage abilities (rocket punch and flame burst), you have effectively shut down the pyro's DPS output.

[Varicite]

That is operating under the assumption that a) you are the healer or b) the healer will doing cleanses don't also waste their gcd. While the healer is removing the DoT it also inhabitants them from doing their thing. In addition to the fact that as a Van/PT you have to use Ion Pulse/Flame Burst sometimes anyways, in which also garrantees to apply DoT again. And as mention, you normal shot 3 to 4 times you will probably get the DoT back anyways.

 

Also a good PT will use his HiB right after a DoT move to increase his burst potential (with the AP already stucked on target), so there will pretty much be no time for you to remove it before HiB occurs.

 

From my experiences there is almost no chance that a Van/PT be out of ammo/overheat in a head to head fight (since we can also emergency recharge or vent heat) so operating under that assumption, from my experience, is also faulted.

 

If it was a large group fight I will be conserving ammo anyways to burst on a guy with low health, not to just start on any freshies, so once again the cleansing will do very little.

 

I typically prioritize tanks and healers due to my elemental damage and armor-ignoring Rail Shots, so there are a lot of times where I find myself in prolonged engagements. Don't get me wrong, I will pick off softer targets as necessary (not that you have much of a choice as a PT, heh), but the majority of the time I'm facing targets that I will need to use my Vent Heat against.

 

In most of my fights w/ good healers, I've found that the time to cleanse the dot is far more detrimental to me killing them than it is to them outlasting my damage, especially if there is a LoS object nearby.

 

With all that said, I've played my PT considerably less since 1.2, and w/ targets dropping faster, heat is less of an issue than it used to be. I believe this will change when more people are geared, though, and things will return to more prolonged fights.

[aRtFuL]

Ah, my misunderstanding, I apologize.

 

If a Pyro is wasting a few GCDs on trying to proc their 16% chance DoT from spamming extremely low damage auto-attacks, that is pretty much a best-case scenario for you. Congratulations, you've just found a moron, and you may commence w/ your free kill. : )

 

Sometimes in a fight the situation is not as simple as that.

 

You don't want to burn everything in 1 go until you are sure you have a good chance of getting a kill (since again, unlike mara, once we committed to a fight we HAVE to finish it or can't get out, so we have to choose our target carefully), so hammer shot is actually pretty useful in setting up people, whether to deceive them into coming to you or to deceive them into thinking that your cooldown not up yet.

 

I usually don't burn every cooldown on them until I get within 10m, that way, they can't really run even if they removes my snares (I will just aoe stun them, re-snare, and if need to, cryo them).

 

And when you are that close your opponents will not have enough time to react, and since when you are that close you will be using ion pulse for damage as well, the DoTs will almost be certainly continously reapplied.

Edited April 26, 2012 by aRtFuL

[KBSIP]

That is operating under the assumption that a) you are the healer or b) the healer will doing cleanses don't also waste their gcd. While the healer is removing the DoT it also inhabitants them from doing their thing. In addition to the fact that as a Van/PT you have to use Ion Pulse/Flame Burst sometimes anyways, in which also garrantees to apply DoT again. And as mention, you normal shot 3 to 4 times you will probably get the DoT back anyways.

 

Also a good PT will use his HiB right after a DoT move to increase his burst potential (with the AP already stucked on target), so there will pretty much be no time for you to remove it before HiB occurs.

 

From my experiences there is almost no chance that a Van/PT be out of ammo/overheat in a head to head fight (since we can also emergency recharge or vent heat) so operating under that assumption, from my experience, is also faulted.

 

If it was a large group fight I will be conserving ammo anyways to burst on a guy with low health, not to just start on any freshies, so once again the cleansing will do very little.

 

a pyro applying a DoT through FB or Inc Missile has a distinctive visual effect tied to it that more than allows time for someone with decent reflexes to purge before the GCD is up, leaving someone like you hitting their railshot, noticing it not working, and having to move backwards in your rotation.

 

This would be a different story if railshot was off the GCD, but it is not. there is inherently always a window between dot application and an incoming railshot. purges also mitigate more overall damage than the heals would. a healer will also never be alone unless your team is stupid, regardless of pugs, and a healer that is purging his DoTs will reduce a Pyro PT's damage output enough that they will be bursted down by an assisting DPS far before they threaten the healer in a serious manner.

[aRtFuL]

a pyro applying a DoT through FB or Inc Missile has a distinctive visual effect tied to it that more than allows time for someone with decent reflexes to purge before the GCD is up, leaving someone like you hitting their railshot, noticing it not working, and having to move backwards in your rotation.

 

Not trolling but this is extremely hypotherical from my point of view. It is like one of those scenarios that people come up with like "what happens if you kick me, I grab your leg and you do a fly kick on my face with your other foot to get me off u" type of scenarios.

 

In the stress of combat, you will not have time to think like that, that is one thing people got to remember.

 

In the stress of combat a healer is unlikely to keep his finger on cleanse all the time. GCD is a really short time. If you do use interrupt regularly (like myself) you will know that your reaction is also not always fast enough to do an interrupt within a sec, not to mention that the healer might be doing something else (ie. trying to get a heal off for example) and don't want to give that up for cleansing.

 

That's why I think in the stress of actual pvp, even if the healers can, I rarely see any that try to cleanse those DoTs.

Edited April 26, 2012 by aRtFuL

[Derian]

Not trolling but this is extremely hypotherical from my point of view. It is like one of those scenarios that people come up with like "what happens if you kick me, I grab your leg and you do a fly kick on my face with your other foot to get me off u" type of scenarios.

 

In the stress of combat, you will not have time to think like that, that is one thing people got to remember.

 

In the stress of combat a healer is unlikely to keep his finger on cleanse all the time. GCD is a really short time. If you do use interrupt regularly (like myself) you will know that your reaction is also not always fast enough to do an interrupt within a sec, not to mention that the healer might be doing something else (ie. trying to get a heal off for example) and don't want to give that up for cleansing.

 

That's why I think in the stress of actual pvp, even if the healers can, I rarely see any that try to cleanse those DoTs.

 

QFT people said the same thing about burns in the Sentinel forum. "Well in rated they will just cleanse it off" no they won't. Healers have a lot to think about, adding on the cleanse every DOT thing ain't going to happen.

 

And if that healer does use a cleanse, you have effectively kept them from healing someone, which may be even more devistating.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Derian

[Soljin]

PT/Pyros absolutely destroy my Jugg Hybrid Tank...Did a test with a friend the other day blew all my Defensive CD's health pot/Def defense.invincible. saber ward, Unstoppable charge...Didnt even slow her down...Burned me down she was at 70% health....against a well Played PT/Pyro your toast..Literally!

 

Good Mara's will take me out but I get to fight back, and if my CD's are up I might get a win....Not against a PT/Pyro.

 

More power to them! Has to be fun stuff.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Soljin

[AceofHeart]

http://www.swtormovies.com/movieview.php?id=3371

 

check this out, 5k crits and 3k crits back to back, powertech burst and sustainble both are insane.

[Paranoidpuz]

http://www.swtormovies.com/movieview.php?id=3371

 

check this out, 5k crits and 3k crits back to back, powertech burst and sustainble both are insane.

 

Thats a mercenary - just sayn

[Dayshadow]

Vanguard/powertech tank is simply the best PvP class in the game is all.

 

Leap + pull = win.

 

Great damage and great durability = win

 

I don't thik I have ever lost a 1vs1 fight as a vanguard. I killed an entire team of 20s 1vs5 once. As luck would have it the entire imp team were all really low levels. I was just slaughtering them. It was ridiculous. I had just turned 40 at the time. I was wondering what the hell was going on. Might have ben some kind of bug with bolster that juiced my DPS and DEF or didn't raise theirs' properly.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Dayshadow

[aRtFuL]

PT/Pyros absolutely destroy my Jugg Hybrid Tank...Did a test with a friend the other day blew all my Defensive CD's health pot/Def defense.invincible. saber ward, Unstoppable charge...Didnt even slow her down...Burned me down she was at 70% health....against a well Played PT/Pyro your toast..Literally!

 

Good Mara's will take me out but I get to fight back, and if my CD's are up I might get a win....Not against a PT/Pyro.

 

More power to them! Has to be fun stuff.

 

I'm not familiar with Juggs myself so I couldn't comment. However I think vs mara the PT definitely has an uphill battle. I think the key is snares - for powerful melee ACs you have to snare them long enough so they can't operate at 10m instead will have to operate within 4m range. This is where mara has an advantage because mara has more as well as more powerful snares (of course better better defensive cooldowns as well).

 

For rangies the key is on the otherhand need to keep PT from entering the 10m sweet zone but against a PT this is extremely difficult (as PT has good long range snares, grapple and cryo as gap closers), hence why most rangies would have trouble keeping good PTs away and get burn down.

[Gustehbus]

Pyrotechs without a doubt give me the most trouble of any class. The fact that i can't cleanse tech abilities on my sage is crippling. They have more than enough tools to close the gap on me while try to slowly creep away nearly perma slowed. Then some of the top end pyrotechs literally melt me in 2-3 GCDs.

 

I just wish i could cleanse their slows ; I feel like then I would have a fighting chance.

[Maurdiib]

Just because they don't burst AS much as they used to a month ago doesn't mean they are no longer broken. Powertechs are still a 100% faceroll class and make winning the Voidstar virtually impossible if playing as Rep.

 

I know entire guilds of (the top on their servers) incredibly strong PvPers who unsubbed and left the game for good simply because of the incredible imbalance regarding the Powertech.A whole team of level 50's geared out to the nines couldn't take on one Powertech with a shred of skill a month ago. I'm sure it's still the same. In pre-50 WZ's it sill is.

 

Forget all this talk about Marauders, Powertechs are still the most OP class in the game.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Maurdiib

[Theology]

Just because they don't burst AS much as they used to a month ago doesn't mean they are no longer broken. Powertechs are still a 100% faceroll class and make winning the Voidstar virtually impossible if playing as Rep.

 

I know entire guilds of (the top on their servers) incredibly strong PvPers who unsubbed and left the game for good simply because of the incredible imbalance regarding the Powertech.A whole team of level 50's geared out to the nines couldn't take on one Powertech with a shred of skill a month ago. I'm sure it's still the same. In pre-50 WZ's it sill is.

 

Forget all this talk about Marauders, Powertechs are still the most OP class in the game.

 

Over.

 

Exagerrated.

[Visue]

Just wondering, is anybody having as much of a problem with them as I am?

 

Pre 1.2 they never really concerned me, post 1.2 the burst damage is just silly...

 

Yes. Marauders, powertechs, and juggernauts are a problem for me. Melee in general seems very strong right now.

[KBSIP]

Vanguard/powertech tank is simply the best PvP class in the game is all.

 

Leap + pull = win.

 

Great damage and great durability = win

 

I don't thik I have ever lost a 1vs1 fight as a vanguard. I killed an entire team of 20s 1vs5 once. As luck would have it the entire imp team were all really low levels. I was just slaughtering them. It was ridiculous. I had just turned 40 at the time. I was wondering what the hell was going on. Might have ben some kind of bug with bolster that juiced my DPS and DEF or didn't raise theirs' properly.

 

you're playing as the tank spec if you're using leap, as its impossible to get the pyro burst with the leap anymore tanks to its increased position in the talent tree.

 

Pre-50 pvp isn't real pvp either, nothing reflect balance because you were fighting people who may have been 1) first time pvpers, and definitely people who didn't have access to their talent trees. crying OP because of your post is a sign that you suffer from the stupid virus.

[KBSIP]

Over.

 

Exagerrated.

 

that guy's server and "50 geareds" all probably sucked.

[KBSIP]

PT/Pyros absolutely destroy my Jugg Hybrid Tank...Did a test with a friend the other day blew all my Defensive CD's health pot/Def defense.invincible. saber ward, Unstoppable charge...Didnt even slow her down...Burned me down she was at 70% health....against a well Played PT/Pyro your toast..Literally!

 

Good Mara's will take me out but I get to fight back, and if my CD's are up I might get a win....Not against a PT/Pyro.

 

More power to them! Has to be fun stuff.

 

hybrid specs are not legitimate for balancing concerns, bioware has already demonstrated it intends to destroy any and all hybrid talent designs, reference destruction of the hybrid healer builds, and the fact that the hybrid powertech build that had good burst but high mobility were both removed from the game by tweaking talent trees.

[KBSIP]

Yes. Marauders, powertechs, and juggernauts are a problem for me. Melee in general seems very strong right now.

 

the overall irony here is that in 1.2, PVP is melee friendly to an insane degree, and PVE hates melee with a passion. How the hell do you balance classes for that?

[KBSIP]

http://www.swtormovies.com/movieview.php?id=3371

 

check this out, 5k crits and 3k crits back to back, powertech burst and sustainble both are insane.

 

liar, that's not a powertech AC, that's a mercenary. important to note both sides were also healer heavy, mercenary was put under practically no pressure. 5k and 3k crits are to be expected when left alone with a heavy ranged class, L2P.

[KBSIP]

Not trolling but this is extremely hypotherical from my point of view. It is like one of those scenarios that people come up with like "what happens if you kick me, I grab your leg and you do a fly kick on my face with your other foot to get me off u" type of scenarios.

 

In the stress of combat, you will not have time to think like that, that is one thing people got to remember.

 

In the stress of combat a healer is unlikely to keep his finger on cleanse all the time. GCD is a really short time. If you do use interrupt regularly (like myself) you will know that your reaction is also not always fast enough to do an interrupt within a sec, not to mention that the healer might be doing something else (ie. trying to get a heal off for example) and don't want to give that up for cleansing.

 

That's why I think in the stress of actual pvp, even if the healers can, I rarely see any that try to cleanse those DoTs.

 

if you are not learning to recognize visual q's and the weaknesses of certain advanced classes, expect to continue to fail at PVP. there is always a learning curve, and people like you who blame pressure for refusing to adapt to the game are why we're still getting more cries for nerfs when it really is a genuine learn to play issue.

[KBSIP]

Powertechs are overpowered. There is no other debate to be had. Any honest Powertech will tell you the same.

 

Yes they CAN be defeated by well timed kiting and seeing them coming, saving all stuns etc. But this isn't to say they aren't overpowered. PVP is a close proximity environment most of the time. They have ridiculous burst, higher than at operative on instant casts and nearly spammable. It is DPS in easy mode.

 

balance does not center on 1v1 fights. if you are a ranged class (all healers are inherently ranged, ranged DPS is ranged) and you allow a melee DPS class to get into combat with you without you engaging them first, you will be hard-pressed to survive. this is a punishment for a failure of situational awareness. if an MDPS is harassing ranged classes, a tank should be taunting and popping a guard on the targeted class while DPS burns the attacker. Everything must be treated as a team situation since all of these complaints are regarding warzone based numbers.