Griefing: Everyone's Problem

[Jedi_Wannabe]

The pvp flagging thing shouldn't have happened for pve servers. As for being involuntarily infected, they provided access to a vaccine.

 

I agree. The vaccine was present, but the involuntary PvP flag should absolutely never happen on a PvE server. If mechanics are in place to force players on a PvE server into PvP, then the description of PvE servers should be changed to reflect that.

 

The PvP flagging in the event worked like this: If player A is infected and flagged, and explodes infecting player B, then player B becomes flagged.

 

Also: If player B tries to deflag, being infected while flagged counts as engaging in PvP, even if you just stand in a corner, which disables the timer for dropping the PvP status. So, player B has to go get the vaccine before they can initiate the 5 minute wait to drop the PvP status.

 

Buying vaccine to prevent being infected by other players was an intended part of the event. I don';t think being flagged for PvP on a PvE server was an intended part of the event, and should be corrected before any future events take place.

[emeria]

OP, you'll have to be more specific in your complaints as to what was or wasn't happening that you think 'might' have been griefing. Considering the minimal disruption caused by getting infected, it is hard to believe anyone would classify a bunch of people camping on the fleet waiting to blow up as griefing. Add to that the fact that the syrum was easily attainable AND had a 6 hour duration (I think?) and your argument for griefing becomes even weaker.

 

Hopefully, BW doesn't classify ANY of these very minor events as griefing. This game is already 100% geared towards casuals and has enough carebear aspects. That isn't so much a complaint from me as it is an observation, by the way. I don't like carebear games all that much, but am mature enough to adapt and deal.

 

On Shadowtown last night we had 8-12 imps all ungrouped with their companions out camping the event vendor and preventing any of us Republics from making last minute purchases. Would that be griefing in your book? For us it was just a nice opportunity to gruop up and have a big fight followed by us camping THEM at the vendor and causing their lowbies a comparable amount of distress. This was on a PvP server though, so you have to click 'yes' to the disclaimer about getting exploded while you quest.

 

That is funny, most of my friends left for WoW again because it is more casual. I play both now and have to agree that if you want to see casual, go try WoW at this point. I love SWTOR because I can't get things done in a week. I went back to WoW and in 2-3 weeks of casual play (full time student, work, and going out still) I hit 85 and maxed out my characters gear. The only other complaint my friends had was no dungeon queue.

 

I also found the vendor camping very annoying, I had yet to spend any of my DNA's. Hopefully they offer some kind of way to spend my DNA's still.

[Uthyr]

Seriously? Everyone's problem? Whats up with people thinking they speak on behalf of everyone or merrit a problem to affect everyone. I've not encountered griefing nor do i consider it a problem.. Dont try to make a problem bigger by dragging other people into it.. Simply state you consider it a problem and people will back you up if they agree and others will disagree, but dont use words you cannot backup. It's not my problem and as you can see in this thread its not everyone's problem.. Exaggeration makes me disagree with you even regardless of what you wrote.

[Allistair]

The 2k fee was a bit steep for my 10th moving from Shuttle to Shuttle, and not all worlds had access to the serum before entering the 'security' of the Fleet, I believe.

 

Capitol planets had Players trying to infect others at the markets, and these low lvl areas should have been Off Limits, IMO.

 

I'll agree with the cost being high for the newly created, non- alt character.

THe simple way to correct this issue would be to have the droid that scans for the virus as you enter the fleet, also vaccinate you if you were clean of the disease.

This would give those that didn't want to participate 5 hours free time to move about and leave the fleet without costing them a dime, and those that do want to participate could click it off, as we did when we bugged out.

 

It really is a simple solution that would have satisfied everyone IMO

[Roccobb]

OP, you'll have to be more specific in your complaints as to what was or wasn't happening that you think 'might' have been griefing. Considering the minimal disruption caused by getting infected, it is hard to believe anyone would classify a bunch of people camping on the fleet waiting to blow up as griefing. Add to that the fact that the syrum was easily attainable AND had a 6 hour duration (I think?) and your argument for griefing becomes even weaker.

 

Hopefully, BW doesn't classify ANY of these very minor events as griefing. This game is already 100% geared towards casuals and has enough carebear aspects. That isn't so much a complaint from me as it is an observation, by the way. I don't like carebear games all that much, but am mature enough to adapt and deal.

 

On Shadowtown last night we had 8-12 imps all ungrouped with their companions out camping the event vendor and preventing any of us Republics from making last minute purchases. Would that be griefing in your book? For us it was just a nice opportunity to gruop up and have a big fight followed by us camping THEM at the vendor and causing their lowbies a comparable amount of distress. This was on a PvP server though, so you have to click 'yes' to the disclaimer about getting exploded while you quest.

 

I was doing Tatooine quests on my level 27 toon. Somebody ran up, infected me while I was in a fight with an elite creature. I was flagged PVP. Then a lvl 50 player comes up and kills me. I go back to med center, start heading back to the area. Jumped by the same guy. So I head back to med center. The guy was there, and killed me as soon as I spawned. THAT is griefing. But the STUPID customer service representatives said, "Working As Intended."

[Frostvein]

The 2k fee was a bit steep.

 

No, it wasn't. At all.

[Eutoxis]

involuntary pvp flag should absolutely never happen on a pve server

 

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[SyphonLord]

Seriously? Everyone's problem? Whats up with people thinking they speak on behalf of everyone or merrit a problem to affect everyone. I've not encountered griefing nor do i consider it a problem.. Dont try to make a problem bigger by dragging other people into it.. Simply state you consider it a problem and people will back you up if they agree and others will disagree, but dont use words you cannot backup. It's not my problem and as you can see in this thread its not everyone's problem.. Exaggeration makes me disagree with you even regardless of what you wrote.

 

PVE means PVE and upon choosing to play on that server type should mean you are FREE from getting ganked by someone EXPLOITING the game mechanics. If i want to PVP i will join a WZ or roll on a PVP server. You are entitled to your opinion but this thread is about constructive feedback, I think bioware need to ensure that the PVP flag is enabled by the player.

 

I didn't care about getting sick during this event as it earned me 5 DNA and i did my dailies and received vaccines.

 

There are other methods being employed to flag people. If i wanna "Care bear" my way through the game then so be it, that's my choice.

[Eutoxis]

No, it wasn't. At all.

 

For new players it certainly was.

 

Should have been free, or there should be an option to completely opt out of the event (if they were going to skip what they should have done in the first place and make it opt-in-ONLY).

[VicSkimmr]

not surprised in the slightest that the OP continues to argue this point even though the event is over.

[Malastare]

Now that the first Event is a part of TOR history, I would ask Bioware and the community as a whole to improve the game by better defining what is intended to be seen as Griefing, aid the Players in seeing it removed, and disciplining those that are found guilty of using such methods in spoiling the play of others.

 

Hear hear!

 

I also heard multiple reports of entire planets devoted to people ruining the gaming experience of others by attacking them simply because they were a member of a different faction. This is a particularly nasty form of griefing which --I'm told-- is very similar to the way in which the game itself has been griefing me for the last dozen or so levels.

 

For example: I simply wanted to go to a location in the Nikto Sector of Nar Shaddaa, but a bunch of griefing NPCs suddenly turned red and started attacking me without me attacking them. I didn't come there to attack them. I never flagged myself for "random attacks by gang members" yet they attacked me and forced me to return the attack against my will. Bioware needs to remove this NPC griefing immediately.

 

I can't see how these things have been left in the game for so long. It seems that everywhere I go, people are attacking me without me wanting to be attacked or forcing me to go places when they know I will be attacked. Why do they think this is okay? I just want to play my game? Why are they forcing me to actually be subject to game mechanics? I demand that they add options in the Preferences for:

 

[ - ] Allow game mechanics

[ - ] Allow game world to react to my presence

[ - ] Allow game to trigger game events without my explicit approval

[ - ] Disable fun

[Tickdoff-Tank]

For new players it certainly was.

 

Should have been free, or there should be an option to completely opt out of the event (if they were going to skip what they should have done in the first place and make it opt-in-ONLY).

 

2k is not a problem for new players. And if for some reason you refuse to spend the 2k, you could have just asked in general chat for someone to give you some. Most people were trying to explode and had lots of extra vaccine. I gave at least 10 people some vaccine, and most of the people I know did the same.

 

You should try joining the community and not hiding from it.

[nadokaoh]

time played during event 30hr time infected 0

[Rabrac]

The Rakghoul Plague, well, there was vaccine, so not too bad.

 

The exploiting of AoE to flag another person is just that, an exploit. Report them for it, names, levels, class, AC, time, place, circumstances, and server, plus your information as well. Forced into PvP while you are questing and fighting a mob, is a cowardly way to "gain" a kill for lowly griefers, and is an exploit that does need to be rectified.

 

This exploit has been going on for months, or since BETA and or release.

 

Back on Hoth I was solo questing, attacked a mob with 2 Strong in it, as a tank I used an AoE (Wither) as did Khem, found myself dead ??? and Flagged PvP and saw 4 Republics leaving me. Bad enough I was engaged in a fight, worse they exploited me into PvP mode, worse still it took 4??? of them to kill me with a mob too? (that's why cowards and lowly, and without any honor). As I went around in the tunnels I noticed a lot of other single Imperials lying dead on the ground so it was not just me.

 

Fix the forced PvP Exploit, Please BW.

 

I think the issue that happened to you was fixed and using AOE skills does not flag you now. The virus though seemd to escape them (intentionally?).

[DieAlteHexe]

I was doing Tatooine quests on my level 27 toon. Somebody ran up, infected me while I was in a fight with an elite creature. I was flagged PVP. Then a lvl 50 player comes up and kills me. I go back to med center, start heading back to the area. Jumped by the same guy. So I head back to med center. The guy was there, and killed me as soon as I spawned. THAT is griefing. But the STUPID customer service representatives said, "Working As Intended."

 

Same happened to me within the first hours of the event. At first I had no earthly clue what was going on as I was just in Tattooine with my lvl. 27 questing. Then I did some checking and figured it out. So...I waited 'til my QT was up and left.

 

I didn't bother reporting it so I didn't get a "WAI" response. I just removed myself from the feeding frenzy and did the rest of the event with higher levels and, when in proximity with opposition players, the vaccine.

 

I do strongly believe that there should NEVER be a way to involuntarily flag a player on a PvE server and I think it might've been a nice thing for the vaccine to last through defeat. Aside from that...I had a blast. Lots of fun, met a bunch of new people and hope we see many more events.

[Elhanan]

Being able to infect other players is part of the world event.

 

First, people complained that nothing was ever happening in game to involve players. Then, when stuff happens in game, they don't want to be involved. You can only make 85% of us happy, it seems.

 

The flagging for PvP on infection should *not* have happened. Given the large number of players doing the world event content, I did not find it at all difficult to get help fighting off Imps the couple times it happened to me over the last 10 days, but I do understand the valid concerns* of PvE "purists."

 

*whiny tendencies

 

However, on PvE the extant rules which are available state that permissionj MUST be gained before any PvP occurs. Violations of this rule appear to be clearly defined as Griefing to me, and hopefully will be eliminated.

 

Mentioning this as a purist, as I was directed to ----> PvE

[DieAlteHexe]

No, it wasn't. At all.

 

It was for the newly arrived to Fleet folk. Which is why I tried to hand extras to them when they zoned in. Much after that (lvl. 10-ish) and it's not so horrible.

 

Still, my vote would be for, in future, persist through defeat on things like the vaccine.

[VicSkimmr]

However, on PvE the extant rules which are available state that permissionj MUST be gained before any PvP occurs. Violations of this rule appear to be clearly defined as Griefing to me, and hopefully will be eliminated.

 

Mentioning this as a purist, as I was directed to ----> PvE

 

Are you suggesting that someone infecting you with the virus qualifies as "pvp?"

Edited April 24, 2012 by VicSkimmr

[Elhanan]

It's a plague... it's not supposed to be sunshine and roses.

If nobody got even just a little upset at the inconvenience of it, I'd say it was a failure as a theme. I mean unless it's gamebreaking. But it wasn't.

 

Only speaking for myself, but I liked hearing the warnings over the spaekers and watching the broadcasts. I am pro Event, but am certainly opposed to those using methods that interfere in the enjoyment of play to others that may wish to play in another fashion besides their own.

[Havokk]

First issue, level 10 character new to fleet gets infected, can't afford vaccine.

Solution: Wait a few minutes, explode, die, no repair cost, sell the 5 DNA samples. Now your character has money to buy vaccines.

 

Second issue, exploding flags opposing faction characters for PVP. Yes, this is very bad. On a PvE ruleset server, PVP is supposed to be consensual. That is, there should be no way to flag my character without my permission.

 

I think a way to have dealt with it would be to have had a DNA Sample vendor in Mos Ila and in Anchorhead, away from the PVP battles. As well as, of course, fixing it so exploding with the plague didn't flag characters!

Edited April 24, 2012 by Havokk

[DieAlteHexe]

Are you suggesting that someone infecting with the virus qualifies as "pvp?"

 

Vic, meet Elhanan, Elhanan, Vic.

 

Vic...Elhanan is very firm in his belief that if a player exploded on him during this event, he was "griefed". There was a huge thread about this (not sure why El felt the need to start another one when there was already one but hey, whatever) and throughout it all, despite logic, despite people trying to help him see other viewpoints (especially the bit with the Plaguebearer quest so it was, at least for this event, patently obvious that BW intended for us to explode all over each other) he remains steadfast that exploding people were griefing him.

 

Have to give him credit for pure tenacity.

[Andryah]

All Bioware had to do is have some Elite Containment Soldiers patrol the Space Station and take out anyone who is infected.... This would of kept the Space Station free of the disease and discourage players from camping on the station and provide a safe zone....

 

Their other mistake was they should of made the serum free instead of charging 2k credits.....

 

Pretty simple solution but as usually over looked by Bioware....

 

I did not actively participate in the event. I played multiple characters, often in fleet, during the whold event and never once got infected. I even ported a number of times into the infection spawn where you port on a fleet pass.

 

Just don't stand next to an infected player (very much like in real life), and your chances of being infected are very low. And on the off chance you did get infected, pop a vaccine and move along. So I really don't see valid reasons for people complaining about it.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Andryah

[Elhanan]

That would've helped out the plagued actually. Dying was an easy way to get dna.

 

Thing for me and some others; we did not wish to die, collect DNA, gain pets or gear, etc; we wanted to play as we desired. I run solo, and others were playing with friends and spouses (sometimes both, thankfully), but had play spoiled for what we planned to do, and were coerced by others to alter our chosen game play.

 

Whether the penalties are small or large, they are extant, and to have them forced upon a Player seems like Griefing to me.

[Elhanan]

I had fun, even on my lowly alts, to boot. I would get infected, become feverish, run over to one of the nearby railings, jump over, die, "earn" my 5 dna samples, and move the heck on through whatever it was I was doing.

 

Those mere moments of my gameplay were barely a hiccup, and those dna samples sold pretty well, too. Lowest price for one sample that I saw during the event was 1k. That's 5k for a single death. Even if I used part of that to buy a nearby serum, which I didn't bother with except on my Main, who had to run through several guild-run operations, I was still left with at least a 3k profit every time I died.

 

It's a game. Have fun with it!

 

And that is great, if that is your choice.

 

But when one desires to avoid the Plague and/or the Event, avoid death as a rule instead of seeking profit from it, or avoid the infection as the mechanics of the disease may effect gameplay (eg; FP, OP, WZ, etc)., they should be able to do so w/o having it forced upon them.

[Liokae]

Thing for me and some others; we did not wish to die, collect DNA, gain pets or gear, etc; we wanted to play as we desired. I run solo, and others were playing with friends and spouses (sometimes both, thankfully), but had play spoiled for what we planned to do, and were coerced by others to alter our chosen game play.

 

Whether the penalties are small or large, they are extant, and to have them forced upon a Player seems like Griefing to me.

 

If you were logged in 24-7, it'd take you less than thirty vaccines to ignore the entire rest of the event; vaccines were available for low-cost purchase, from quests that gave significant amounts of money or experience, or for FREE if you'd just bothered to ask players that were actually doing the event. If asking in general for a couple of vaccines is too much effort to ignore the rest of it, you may have more significant problems than just not being able to play the exact way you want 100% of the time.