Mistaking OP classes for good players.

[Metalmac]

This says it all and is from those the know more about PVP then most:

 

 

Watch and learn what the best of the best have to say about 1.2 patch and balance.

[MbaxterBeau]

Does anyone think I look like Sally Struthers? Just curious and could you pass me the cheesy poofs while I play this WZ?

[vimm]

Shouldn't this be titled, "Mistaking good players for OP classes." ?

[Caeliux]

Op is right, I approve.

 

In my hands I am OP every class and every build I touch.

 

Bioware needs to nerf my account to stop me, even then I top charts and make people cry and nerdrage at their team for being bad and geting steamrolled by people like me.

 

Nice little quote there huh!

 

"I make OP groups nerdrage"

 

-Trademark made by Caeliux

[Meenos]

I play sentinel

 

I have personally seen people rage reroll sentinel, Get full BM, duel me again and get absolutely destroyed even worse then before. haha

[Derian]

This says it all and is from those the know more about PVP then most:

 

 

Watch and learn what the best of the best have to say about 1.2 patch and balance.

 

Would you stop spamming that whine fest?

[bennyhana]

This says it all and is from those the know more about PVP then most:

 

 

Watch and learn what the best of the best have to say about 1.2 patch and balance.

 

Best of the best huh? I believe everything YouTube tells me too.

[Brandoe]

Still playing Mando. Still effective in WZ's in fact I get top ranks now more than I ever did which wasn't much before 1.2. Don't know what all the fuss is about. I'm not an awesome PvP'er by any means. Don't find the Maras to be any more annoying than they were before. There are a few very good players on our server but playing against them makes me a better player.

 

I play the game with the rules in place as they are. I remember a time when you bought games and they never got patched you just played them and learned how to be good with what you had. Thank the maker they didn't have forums in those days.

 

Although the entertainment value is usually quite high.

[Kaslokie]

The real issue is not the class per se, its the buffs that they needed added with the expertise nerf that was not needed. At 845 expertise, i am reducing damage by approximately 7% (would have to log on to verify exact numbers) which is approximately a 8% nerf from pre 1.2 levels. Damage, on the other hand, increased by about 6.5ish % if i remember correctly at my gear level (again, would need to check it). That about an 14% damage swing that went in all dps's favor, but when compounded with the buffs that they received... well, the results were shocking for most of the pvp community, and sents \ mauraders reaped the biggest benefit from that. I do think it is still unbalanced, but the way to fix it is not through nerfing mauraders \ sents as much as it is fixing the broken expertise and stun lock pvp systems.

[ItGetsAllOver]

Not when that strategy is viable. When you are rolling a SUPPORT class that actually makes your friends more powerful. DPS classes, specifically Marauders, do NOT make those around them more powerful. The trade off for having abilities that make others more powerful, is that you are less powerful 1v1, particularly in close quarters.

 

People don't seem to get that. They want to have all their support abilties, all their healing, their AOE, their CC, their stealth, the ability to attack from 30 meters away, AND they still want to win a 1v1 close quarters fight with a class that can't do anything but fight 1v1 close quarters. That's not balance.

 

Make Sent/Maras equal to other classes in a close quarters 1v1 fight, you are not making them balanced, you are making them useless.

 

I keep specifying close quarters because that is relevant. If you insist on standing right by a turret, right in front of a door, with a class that is meant to attack at a distance, and is given abilities that are meant to keep melee dps at a distance, you are not playing your class correctly.

 

Stop saying a melee dps class is OP because NON-melee and non-dps classes aren't as good at melee dps...

 

It's pointless arguing with people like you, because you're living in your own little world.

 

You honestly think that "bring friends" should be a viable strategy to kill a Marauder or Sentinel? That's a reasonable tactic for fighting one class in your mind?

 

So do you think that Marauders and Sentinels should be able to steam roll melee VGs and PTs? Those are both melee focused classes. What about a Scoundrel or Operative. Both melee focused classes. Should they also get steamrolled? Your logic is flawed.

[Dayshadow]

Let me start by saying I'm a rage spec almost fully bm geared juggernaut. With that being said I have had plenty of good games AND plenty of bad ones. Games where I'm top dps with the most medals and not so top dps with an average amount of medals... When I get beat by a certain class a few times I don't immediately assume that certain class is op, I was simply outplayed.

 

I was a tank spec juggernaut before and after getting my *** handed to me on many occasions, I came on here and qq'ed like everyone else that does after a few bad games. After doing some research I found that people have succeeded very well with the immortal spec. I took their advice, tried it, and just couldn't figure it out. So I switched back to rage, the spec that I had pretty much been from lvl 1, so you could say I'm pretty familiar with that particular build.

 

That all being said, I get beat by the people with the same class as me, same spec as me. I get beat by every other class in the game. But I also beat every class in the game. You catch me off guard, you have your cool downs and I don't, chances are you win. Same goes for me, catching you off guard when I have my cool downs and you don't.

 

So many posts here claiming all these "op" classes when people just can't handle the fact that well... That guy/girl just simply outplayed you. They assume that because they are fully geared, they shouldn't get beat down just like the rest of the people in the warzone.

 

Put it simply, the game is pretty damn balanced in pvp. Start getting used to the fact that some people are better at playing this game than you are. And/or people found your weakness and know how to exploit it.

 

Edit: Just to prove a point, since this thread started, almost all classes have been claimed to be "OP".

 

The problem with being outplayed is that.. well, is every marauder outplaying me? And only when I play a sorc? But all the other classes: Juggernauts, vanguards, snipers, scoundrels, sages, etc. aren't outplaying me., It just so happens that only people playing marauders are "great" players? And only when playing sorc. But nobody playing other classes can faceroll outplay my sorc? Riiight.

 

This game is so gear dependent that skill isn't an issue. You don't have skill, you have gear. "Skill" is just your ability to follow the instructions laid out in your skill tree, There are no good players combat wise. Only tactically. i.e, how they play voidstar, huttball, etc.

 

Now I understand they they may be a counter to sorcs. Maybe by design. However, this is bad design to make a class that is nigh impossible to beat for any class - BY DESIGN. Guess what. They know it too. And they target sorcs/sages first because they know it's a guaranteed win. So what are sorcs supposed to do when all the "great players" are playing marauder because it's the FOTM? How can you have ranked WZs in a rock paper scissors system where rock knows to just attack scissor for easy wins. When I play my juggernaut I now target marauders. In fact, when I play anything other than sorc I go after marauders on principle because I hate the fact that a 5 year old could take control of a marauder and have success against a seasoned sorc. I'll stay close to sorcs in my group and wait for marauders to come in for the easy kill. That simply isn't fair. Vanguards are difficult to beat. I usually lose against them as a sorc, but at least I can beat them. It's not completely hopeless. The fights last longer than 20 secs and they can't just spam their "auto-attack" and possibly win based purely on insane damage vs a particular class. Fighting a marauder as a sorc is like fighting a scoundrel who has permament flechette round and can spam first shot out of stealth and from any position (minus the knockdown). A bad vanguard will get creamed. A bad juggernaut will get creamed. A bad marauder? I'll probably still lose or take him with me via DOTs. Only way I ever beat them is when they are 1.) Really really clueless (new to PvP), 2.) way beneath me level-wise and 3.) undergeared for their level. It's just too much damage too fast.

 

Do I think marauders are OP'd in a general sense? No. I actually think they are underpowered in alot of ways vs certain classes.

 

That doesn't make a rock paper scissor dynamic exceptable either. It shouldn't be exceptable that my juggernaut can take on two marauders no more than it is exceptable that 1 marauder can take 2 sorcs. It penalizes certain classes if one is FOTM. If there are marauders all over the place how does that bode for people playing classes they can effortlessly win against? See the problem?

Edited April 25, 2012 by Dayshadow

[Jdaddy]

What specs of marauders are you having problems with? I see a ton of marauders running around now but most are trash and get killed pretty easily. Marauder is not an easy class to play, you can see the difference between good and bad pretty easily. People also dont know how to handle a marauder when they pop cds. If you have watched two of them duel each other...you will notice when one pops the 99% reduction the other force chokes them. This does a couple of things...one if prevents from popping a healing pot....and they are not still doing dmg to you while they are low....and gives you time to set up what you plan to do next. To many times i watch morons keep dpsing a marauder when they are only doing 1-2 dmg to them....this is wrong and a sign that they dont know the class or dont know how to think things through. Another thing is marauders are blown up pretty easily....you dont need everyone one on the team to turn and kill them, having one person dps them and force CDs and then they die. The fact is marauders did not see that much of a change from other dps classes. The most notable change would be the expertise change, which would increase all dps classes. I will admit that the smash spec on paper looks pretty powerful, but i havent tried it and dont plan to. I know that i personally dont have a problem with smash spec marauders because i have defensive roll. The crys about this class didnt start till 1.2 and the only real notable changes to combat and watchmen was increase dmg from masterstrike and moving the trans runspeed boost from watchmen to combat. Neither i would consider game breaking op. So that leaves the one change that every class saw which was the expertise change. Right now they designed it to do more dmg than what it reduces dmg. So nonstop heal fests wouldnt rule the game.

 

I see most of the problems that people are having with marauders as not knowing how to deal with them. It would be like someone complaining that they keep dying to a sniper because they get knocked back and rooted then they just keep running slowly at them instead of LoS.

[FireballXLV]

I find that I am losing interest in ths game faster than any other on line game I have ever played. The class balance issue is probably a big part of this problem for me. I have played most of the big on line games so I know class balance can be a challenge but his mess? Givo me a break. Its Biowares game so I guess they can do whatever they want with it. Any bets on the date of the fist sever consolidation?

[Exilim]

I find that I am losing interest in ths game faster than any other on line game I have ever played. The class balance issue is probably a big part of this problem for me. I have played most of the big on line games so I know class balance can be a challenge but his mess? Givo me a break. Its Biowares game so I guess they can do whatever they want with it. Any bets on the date of the fist sever consolidation?

 

I hope if they ever do Server merges like that they give people an "of <server name>" title to mark that horrific day.

[Bazzoong]

So a "harder" class to play makes it easier to win with? Great logic.

 

So he is doing better with his mara than his operative and maras are harder to play, so obviously the player got a skill infusion when rerolling. NO, flaw in this argument, really.

 

It only illustrates how a hard to play class like maras educate the bad operatives to be better players and get a deeper understanding of the game.

 

Wuahahaha!

[GrandMike]

Ive mistaken OP for serious poster.

Awwwww.

[RaugMoss]

Shouldn't this be titled, "Mistaking good players for OP classes." ?

 

Hahahah, sir, you made my day with this one.

 

This says it all and is from those the know more about PVP then most:

 

 

Watch and learn what the best of the best have to say about 1.2 patch and balance.

 

I don't know whether it is a whine-fest like some people play, but did you see the damages that tankassassin put up? While lasting against 2 players? Tell you what, without my adrenal and recklessness, I bring down a class at almost the same speed, maybe a bit slower or faster, while I take insane damage from them. So, if you say that a tank spec should do that damage, and that is justified, you are unreasonable.

 

I play sentinel

 

I have personally seen people rage reroll sentinel, Get full BM, duel me again and get absolutely destroyed even worse then before. haha

 

Agreed. There are too many bad sentinels/marauders out there, which i can tell when I beat em with more than 60% hp remaining. However, when the fight is close, you can see the difference really. But still, our server doesn't have many focus/rage spec sentinels so I can only guarantee a healthy view about the annihilation/watchmen and carnage/combat ones.

My view: they may need a bit toning down (they top raid dps too btw), but thats about it.

Edited April 25, 2012 by RaugMoss

[Dayshadow]

So he is doing better with his mara than his operative and maras are harder to play, so obviously the player got a skill infusion when rerolling. NO, flaw in this argument, really.

 

It only illustrates how a hard to play class like maras educate the bad operatives to be better players and get a deeper understanding of the game.

 

Wuahahaha!

 

Marauders are NOT harder to play. They simply have alot of buttons. That doesn't make them harder. Each class and each skill tree pretty much tells you exactly what you need to be doing. Nothing "hard" about it. It's the classes that have to do things above a beyond simply hitting buttons that are more difficult.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Dayshadow

[Dayshadow]

What specs of marauders are you having problems with? I see a ton of marauders running around now but most are trash and get killed pretty easily.

 

You see marauders getting killed by whom? The point is not rather ANYONE can kill them. I'm talking about certain classes not standing any chance against another regardless of how they play. I must reiterate that this isn't about fighting marauders in general, but specific circumstances.

[TheronFett]

Apparently just rolling a marauder made me a MUCH better player, because suddenly I'm doing much better than I did on my concealment operative! I mean, if the game is balanced, then a miraculous infusion of spontaneous skill is the only explanation, right?

 

This ^

 

This early in the game's lifespan, there are bound to be class imbalances. Where else did you think the term FOTM came from? Guess what? Marauder/Sentinel is it right now. You either roll with the punches and wait for the next development cycle, quit the game to dry your eyes, or re-roll as the FOTM to be more competitive.

[islander]

Let me start by saying I'm a rage spec almost fully bm geared juggernaut. With that being said I have had plenty of good games AND plenty of bad ones. Games where I'm top dps with the most medals and not so top dps with an average amount of medals... When I get beat by a certain class a few times I don't immediately assume that certain class is op, I was simply outplayed.

 

I was a tank spec juggernaut before and after getting my *** handed to me on many occasions, I came on here and qq'ed like everyone else that does after a few bad games. After doing some research I found that people have succeeded very well with the immortal spec. I took their advice, tried it, and just couldn't figure it out. So I switched back to rage, the spec that I had pretty much been from lvl 1, so you could say I'm pretty familiar with that particular build.

 

That all being said, I get beat by the people with the same class as me, same spec as me. I get beat by every other class in the game. But I also beat every class in the game. You catch me off guard, you have your cool downs and I don't, chances are you win. Same goes for me, catching you off guard when I have my cool downs and you don't.

 

So many posts here claiming all these "op" classes when people just can't handle the fact that well... That guy/girl just simply outplayed you. They assume that because they are fully geared, they shouldn't get beat down just like the rest of the people in the warzone.

 

Put it simply, the game is pretty damn balanced in pvp. Start getting used to the fact that some people are better at playing this game than you are. And/or people found your weakness and know how to exploit it.

 

Edit: Just to prove a point, since this thread started, almost all classes have been claimed to be "OP".

 

5 stars for you, you sum up my feelings on PvP completely!

[SinnedWill]

That doesn't happen.

 

It will. Marauders are prime targets when their defenses wear off and happen to have 60% health or less - you will die before you can force camo... unless you're yet to face even a moderately decent ops/scound. Finish up the sub-50 bracket if the sub-50 ops/scounds aren't experienced enough to know what they're doing to do that to you.

[kaya]

This says it all and is from those the know more about PVP then most:

 

 

Watch and learn what the best of the best have to say about 1.2 patch and balance.

 

I laughed my *** off when he described focus sents as having burst 'that comes out of nowhere'.

You can see the smash coming from a mile away if you have even the most basic understanding of the spec.

Hes right that sents are op but wrong about the reasons for the imbalance - focus smash is much the same damaage wise as ever and as easy as ever to counter.

 

The best of the best is dissapointingly clueless.

[bennyhana]

This says it all and is from those the know more about PVP then most:

 

 

Watch and learn what the best of the best have to say about 1.2 patch and balance.

 

I stopped listening after he said "most viable pvp class is 8 focused sentinels." It's absolutly rediculous how many people will fall in line with whatever class dare I say "Proffessional PvP'er" will complain about... People will believe anything they hear these days... i guess that why people still watch fox news.

[JorrdKarrd]

Let me start by saying I'm a rage spec almost fully bm geared juggernaut.

 

Let me stop you right there, this thread sucks and you're not a good player, just an OP class with an OP spec.

 

Btw I lol'd hard.

Edited April 26, 2012 by JorrdKarrd