DarthVillain Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Hurp durp to me. Im looking at pre 1.2 trees. I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StyxzieWaterz Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Hurp durp to me. Im looking at pre 1.2 trees. I apologize. Pleasantly surprised to see someone act like an actual adult here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosDogg Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Pleasantly surprised to see someone act like an actual adult here. This tends to happen when you're not in the PvP forum (comedy central). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpineva Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Ravage has nothing to do with it. The 10% buff to our closer though is huge. Much of the reason people see Mara's as Op now is because there is more burst and more melee right now. Pre 1.2 it was all Sorc's and Merc and a few melee mixed in. Now there are more sins, Juggs, and Mara's so the ranged can't burn us down. Play a game with 6 geared ranged on the other side and you'll see real quick how OP we aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Since when is this game balanced around 1v1? I can't help but notice that that line is never used except by players attempting to justify being able to wipe the floor with any class 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetril Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Wrong. Yes we can. But like has been said time and time again, nobody seems to know exactly when to snare us so that you CAN kite us. You about can't snare a Carnage Marauder, but the others are snareable so long as you made the Mara/Sent in question waste their CC breaker. The reason the only spec that cannot be kited is Carnage/Combat is because of the snare/root break on Camo. Some classes can even kite carnage marauders too as long as they have the tools and know what they are doing. Gunslinger comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ra_tm Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) They were always OP. Incorrect, sir. This is my pov, and I'm prolly the best mara on my server atm. With dmg red nerfed fights are way shorter. This means we get to fight almost always with our defenses on, for the entirety of the fight. Couple that with the multitude of defenses at our disposal ( blame the devs for making us a 100 skills class) and with the relatively high burst we do now and you get a tank hitting you for proper damage that also has a lot of tools to make your life miserable. Basically all we need to do is use our available abilities. The classes against which the usual rotation changes are few and far between and I cannot name any right now other than the tankassins with dps mods. So atm we are like sorcerers used to be, the only difference being that instead of aiding others we can only aid ourselves. I don't like being overpowered but I also don't like getting nerfed. They should recalibrate dmg reduction in pvp. And fix those damn assassins. I think the reason they did this is to stop people from being immortal ( see juggs carrying the ball, guarded healers, tankassins) but a linear nerf is too much. They should just put DR on every defensive skill (armor, absorbtion, defense, etc). This way you wont instagib ppl and you won't stroll past 5 ppl hittting you with the ball on you. Edited April 22, 2012 by Ra_tm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orielensis Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Pre 1.2 this would be true, but with our quality of life changes in 1.2 (obfuscate out of GCD/free interupt/free AoE Stun/ravage buff) marauder can defeat operatives even if they open on you on stealth. The ONLY way an operative can defeat a marauder is when they take 50% of your hp on their opener (knockdown + backstab crit combo = 8k damage). So when they open up on you, immediately pop a defensive CD and you'll win the 1v1 for sure. Also keep your dots and BOTH slows on them (seeping wound + crippling slash) and they can't cleanse your dots al the time. Pre 1.2, Assassins/Operatives/Powertechs/Marauders were the best 1v1 classes, they all had equal chances to win a 1v1. But in 1.2, marauders defeats them all without even using all their CD's. I was never defeated 1v1 pre 1.2 except by the best tankassins/shadows. That is still the case post 1.2. I think the difference between maras and ssins amounts to the fact that when a 1v1 develops in a WZ the ssin almost always gets to attack from stealth and the mara probably hasn't managed to anticipate his first stun by popping defensive cds or getting obfuscate on him first. It may be different for Anni maras due to their better survivability I don't know but then I don't know any Anni maras who can solo me (at least not more often than occasionally) - so who does that make top of the 1v1 tree? Put it this way - if you're looking for someone to guard your 'safe' node alone in Novare choose a stealthed tankassin not a mara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StyxzieWaterz Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The skill level of most people in SWTOR is low, and thus more pvp takes place on the forums with people claiming "Mara's cant be kited" instead of doing the PvP itself and becoming better. As you can see, this is super quotable. Siged for truth and great justice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashish Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Maras can be kited. People just need to learn how to do it correctly. The problem is people fail to realize control > dps. You make the mara blow its cds and then worry about dps. Like mention above....it just requires better skills in dealing with certain classes. Edited April 23, 2012 by Hashish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noladev Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 As arrogant as this is going to sound, I believe the majority of ranged classes in this game have No idea how to utitlize their skills for proper kiting. Nor do they time Anything correctly. Nor do they utitlize strafing. Warriors in WoW had a low CD charge, much like Mara's do, and yet were one of the most kiteable classes in that game. The skill level of most people in SWTOR is low, and thus more pvp takes place on the forums with people claiming "Mara's cant be kited" instead of doing the PvP itself and becoming better. I absolutely despise the L2P insult, but at this point, with record breaking whining daily on the PvP forums, there is no other explanation. No other explanation? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Ravage is not what makes marauders strong. Not hardly. It's the combination of constant damage (they cannot be kited) and amazing defensive cooldowns. Maybe you shouldn't back pedal away and you can kite them. Learn to kite noobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorfirepants Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 As arrogant as this is going to sound, I believe the majority of ranged classes in this game have No idea how to utitlize their skills for proper kiting. Nor do they time Anything correctly. Nor do they utitlize strafing. Warriors in WoW had a low CD charge, much like Mara's do, and yet were one of the most kiteable classes in that game. The skill level of most people in SWTOR is low, and thus more pvp takes place on the forums with people claiming "Mara's cant be kited" instead of doing the PvP itself and becoming better. I absolutely despise the L2P insult, but at this point, with record breaking whining daily on the PvP forums, there is no other explanation. This is exactly the problem. Ranged classes never actually had to do anything before, now they are faced with actually learning how to play and counter other classes. It is easier for them to cry like 5 year olds than to actually learn their class like the marauders from the beginning had to. That's also why the majority of the new marauders are absolutely terrible. They expect some class that was easy like their old one, but they end up with sub 100k damage in wz's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderbubble Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Why are we even talking about us being OP? Ever see an Operative(Smuggler?) Healer? They're ridiculous now. Run faster than lightning, can kite forever, can CC, and heal for amazing amounts (hey, much like Sorcs used to be!). They just do no damage so they're flying completely under the radar. Not to say they're OP, just saying that they are, from what I've seen, the only viable healer in PvP at the moment. Marauders are one of MANY viable DPS roles for PvP. Yes, we're a bit strong right now. In fact, probably one of the stronger classes. But we still melt under pressure, and the Expertise changes made everyone melt under pressure. It's just that, at least on my server, everyone focuses Marauders/Sentinels first thing. So.... are PvPers on many servers just pathetic, or are we just strong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulkka Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 In a first place, I thought the same way you do about Annihilation over Carnage spec. Then, few days ago, I switched to Carnage (mainly because I like to learn how to play every tree of my class). I started to notice the power of this spec : - 80% speed for all the raid (+inqui sprint) = first ball taker in huttball, fast transition between spots in other bgs. - strong burst tree that allows you to take a healer down even when another one is present (with a 3rd person able to block me / heal him, I can't do it 100% time) - great counter to root class (with the camo talent) - capacity to prevent someone from moving (with ravage and deadly throw) I use to play with 3 friends (jug. dps and 2 sorcerers heal), and this spec is a lot more usefull in group pvp (as long as you have a good healer in your team). When I play alone and the healer doesn't care about me (or there is just no healer in the raid), I try to use all my offensive CD before I die so I can stay as usefull as possible. PS : sorry for my poor english, it isn't my native language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindriot Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 90% of ranged in this game still has no clue how to kite. I can't tell you how many ranged classes I come up against that thinks kiting is just trying to run away, or try to just stand and turret me while I melt their face. When I do come up against anyone with half a brain the difficulty ramps up. It's just an epidemic of bad tangent crying over the handful of mara's out there that know what they're doing. I still see plenty of mara's in wz's doing garbage damage. It all comes down to who's behind the keyboard, maybe some of you should go watch some wow hunter vids on YouTube to get some kiting pointers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uchoo Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Marauders can only help themselves? Ever thought about Obfuscating a target that is hitting someone else? Using Berserk for the healing (even though it's only a 6% heal)? Frankly, Marauders are helping other people by killing and being less than easy to kill. A linear fix (a nerf as you call it) to damage was actually fairly necessary from a melee standpoint. Marauders work better with that time window for instance. They are basically designed to be on a target for 10-15 seconds before their survival probability starts dropping. You know that if you survive the Marauder's rotation, their damage drops off hugely until they build back up? That's honestly how most classes work, this is where teamwork and CC come into play. TL;DR: What is said on the forums is almost completely different from what is actually happening in competitive gameplay. I play Annihilation Marauder, Immortal Jug and Bodyguard Bounty Hunter. The complaints I do have for these classes are drastically different from is said on the forums every day. I don't feel that I have to voice them because Bioware seems to be making some positive steps (and some goofy ones, but short term fixes work that way sometimes). ./faith somewhat restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlem Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) If it was baseline uninterruptable then why have a talent for that in the rage tree Pretty sure there isn't a talent for it in the rage tree anymore. There is a talent for it in the Carnage tree, which roots the target in place. However, this is easily countered by a stun and it's a ~21 point talent. The change that happened with 1.2 made it so ravage wouldn't be interruptible by skills that interrups spells such as disruption. Edited April 23, 2012 by Phlem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I love the contradiction in this thread of self proclaimed 'best marauder on the server' and then 'can be kited'. No, a good marauder or sentinel will never be kited. You have too many tools and cooldowns to let yourself get kite-killed. Especially as annihilation (hello 50% bleed snare). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderbubble Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I love the contradiction in this thread of self proclaimed 'best marauder on the server' and then 'can be kited'. No, a good marauder or sentinel will never be kited. You have too many tools and cooldowns to let yourself get kite-killed. Especially as annihilation (hello 50% bleed snare). A lot of people still don't think that the 2 points for the 50% slow on Rupture is worth it. I find it's amazing and would never do without it again. Operatives have the easiest time kiting us, but Crippling Slash in conjunction with Ruptures make that easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audenlol Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I love the contradiction in this thread of self proclaimed 'best marauder on the server' and then 'can be kited'. No, a good marauder or sentinel will never be kited. You have too many tools and cooldowns to let yourself get kite-killed. Especially as annihilation (hello 50% bleed snare). (hello 6 second snare that does 1200 damage w expertise factored in thats on a 15 second CD, which can be reset by lucky RNG by a 5 rage ability or a by a 2 rage ability (lesser chance)) But yes, we can be kited. By kited I mean, you can run into your team for help and hope the player is dumb or blind..... and follows you in thus making them blow all their defensive cooldowns since your team is there to blow them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashish Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 It is very possible that most of these complaints coming from warzone experiences. Which is a horrible way to call an class op. Because there would be times im fighting someone solo then all of a sudden i drop dead. Instead of calling that class op i look around to see that a sniper/slinger is critting me for 3k. Are we the best solo class, most likely, but this is a TEAM game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 The skill level of most people in SWTOR is low, and thus more pvp takes place on the forums with people claiming "Mara's cant be kited" instead of doing the PvP itself and becoming better. I absolutely despise the L2P insult, but at this point, with record breaking whining daily on the PvP forums, there is no other explanation. This post deserves a sticky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRtFuL Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 90% of ranged in this game still has no clue how to kite. Totally true. That's said though kiting is a skill that took me a long time to refine back in WoW days when I was new to hunter, so it is not easy for someone who hasn't done it before to have to learn to do it. Marauders can only help themselves? Ever thought about Obfuscating a target that is hitting someone else? Using Berserk for the healing (even though it's only a 6% heal)? Frankly, Marauders are helping other people by killing and being less than easy to kill. Yeap I use it obfuscate to save others all the time (because for myself I can always use force camo for myself if I am really in trouble). Also, predation helps the group a ton. Most of the stuff the buffs us benefits others in the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Ravage is not what makes marauders strong. Not hardly. It's the combination of constant damage (they cannot be kited) and amazing defensive cooldowns. How can marauders not be kited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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