Marauders? What about Pyrotechs? (honest question regarding damage numbers)

[cashogy]

there are no overpowered classes. there are overpowered players.

 

bad powertech's die in about 5 seconds and do a mediocre amount of damage. good powertech's know how to make themselves hard to kill while at the same time maximizing their damage potential.

 

i cant be bothered to explain why youre all wrong, but you are. now just stop, please, and focus your energy on learning how to suck less rather than whining on the forums

[anticept]

all a premade needs is a couple of healers and the rest flame spammers and they are going to win. gone from wall of missle spam to walls of flame everywhere. BH has been the only OP class since day one and continues to be the only actual OP class/specs.

 

sents/mars are nothing special. they are good but no melee class/spec can ever actually be OP.

 

Shure.. and the sky is falling and whatnot. I bet you my team of maras/sents and 2 healers against your team of pt pyros and 2 healers and you lose 99/100 matches.

[Fdzzaigl]

This guys is one of the people I was talking about. I don't even know why he's getting outraged and complaining still.

 

Not everyone knew beforehand that the resolve changes in particular would have such a drastic effect on TTK and damage.

 

The change they made was a nerf,, however, it doesn't matter because all burst in the game has gone through the roof.

[exphryl]

You've come a long way from playing that Guardian QQ'n about not being able to kill Powertechs a month or so ago Obi. Nice to see instead of learning how to play you reroll in to an Assault vanguard.

 

Good times.

 

Look forward to your well thought out "nerf pyro" threads as they continue.

 

(This is why I'm having a hard time taking what you write seriously in this thread)

Edited April 22, 2012 by exphryl

[Zintiel]

Hardly anyone plays a Pyrotech. Very few are good. That's why you don't see posts about them.

 

I mean first thing you decided when you started playing was to go with a lightsaber or guns. Most Star Wars fans I would assume picked lightsaber. Then you have to decide if you want to dual wield. Well, two weapons are obviously better damage than one, right? So the majority of people have lightsabers and the majority of those have two of them.

 

Who knew one pistol could hurt things so bad.

[Jarfunkz]

PT/Vanguard do damage in spurts. If you want to not take damage from a pt/vanguard, cleanse your dots, they will do NO DAMAGE to you if you do that. Everything revolves around their dot on you. Sure, you have the argument that they will just put it back on... yah, and now you are dealing with a pt/vanguard with half action, so take it off again/put on a hot on, and RELAX BRUH.

 

But noticing such an easy answer is very hard for some.

[Darth_Floppinger]

PT/VG drop much easier than Maras/Sents. No defensive cd´s to write home about. A bubble that is functional but not amazing and that´s pretty much it.

 

I think it evens out pretty well balance wise.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Darth_Floppinger

[Obie_Wan]

You've come a long way from playing that Guardian QQ'n about not being able to kill Powertechs a month or so ago Obi. Nice to see instead of learning how to play you reroll in to an Assault vanguard.

 

Good times.

 

Look forward to your well thought out "nerf pyro" threads as they continue.

 

(This is why I'm having a hard time taking what you write seriously in this thread)

 

I'm so tremendously devastated that you can't take me seriously, really, totally crushed here. How will I ever survive without your approval.

 

I said before the best way to learn how to fight a class was to play it and learn it from the grounds up and that's exactly what I did. My Guardian still gets played, but now I get the additional benefit of knowing that my initial observations were not far from the mark because I took the time to play up a Vanguard as well. I can at least back up my words with credibility. So please, cry me a river because I'm not like the rest of the masses who just complains without a proper perspective, mhm.

 

Even now I still get a chuckle out of people like you who cried about how the sky was going to fall on you because IA got "nerfed" and how you need to get tons of survivability and utility buffs for being slighted with this change. Keep on crying about how you still can't compete, exphryl, the rest of us who have realistic and balanced expectations are doing plenty fine here and pulling off fantastic results.

 

Oh and I did eventually figure out how to beat Reynard, the Pyrotech, that gave me trouble using my Guardian as well.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Obie_Wan

[pwnshoppe]

PT/VG drop much easier than Maras/Sents. No defensive cd´s to write home about. A bubble that is functional but not amazing and that´s pretty much it.

 

I think it evens out pretty well balance wise.

 

Our bubble is 25%, and lasts 1/3rd as long as marauders 25% bubble, and has twice as long of a cooldown. : P.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Marauders don't have a 25% bubble.

 

You should know what you are talking about, more people will take you seriously.

[VoidSpectre]

As a marauder who playes with a Pyrotech I absolutely know what this is.

 

It is definitely that powertechs are less noticable. In fact sometimes me and him focus one target and then I get whispers like "lol OP class 2 shotting me" when really I applied 2 bleeds and one big hit and the PT strait blew him up

 

 

 

there is no class I fear dying too more quickly than Pyrotech PTs. I almost made a few posts complaining about the amount of damage they do myself but I usually try and avoid posting "this class is OP" posts

[Haeso]

Our bubble is 25%, and lasts 1/3rd as long as marauders 25% bubble, and has twice as long of a cooldown. : P.

 

PT has higher base mitigation, the marauder 20% is only 6 seconds +refresh every time hit, maximum 30. Full pyro has a shorter cooldown than cloak of pain if in combat the whole time. Plus the self heal. And can switch to ion cell when necessary for things like ball carrying and such.

[Obie_Wan]

I've had my shares of 1 v 2s and coming out on top too as an Assault Vanguard.

 

Honestly, don't even talk about asking for more survivability especially with what we already have now.

You want a great example of how durable we can be? Go take a look at Exphryl's 1.2 video that he so proudly presents in his own sig.

 

He literally let a Marauder beat him to half health and still blew him up, rested up to 85% HP then killed a Sorc and finally killed the Marauder who he had killed earlier again and then dying due to DoT damage. Oh and *gasp* he didn't overheat in that 1 v 2 like he was crying about how he would because of that gosh darn terrible nerf. (http://www.youtube.com/exphryl)

 

While I never allowed someone to beat me to half health before fighting back on my Vanguard, I've had plenty of 1 v 2s that I won. I do at least apologize from time to time to the Imp and Rep players that I'm familiar with in WZs when I splatter them though. At least I have the humility to realize that it's mostly the ridiculously powerful class mechanic I have at my command that's winning this, not some elaborate use of cunning and skill most of the time.

 

You're going to be more experienced than me in the AC, but the videos you put up, while dramatically entertaining it shows how shallow the skill level needed to succeed with this AC is as it often just you jousting back and forth. Which is fine, I can't claim I do any different either, but I have the humility to realize what a tremendous advantage I have and I don't go asking for more or kick me feet crying nerfs bringing me just wee touch closer to other classes.

 

It takes a sizeable ego to say the things you do with a straight face, but seeing as how you're putting up videos that's blatantly contrary to your cries of being "too squishy,", "overheating quickly", "poor utilities", it just really goes to show indeed how tremendous that ego of yours really is.

 

 

Oh yeah. They need to nerf my Master Strike to at least be interruptable. People REALLY underestimate the range that thing can extend out to and how little time they have to get clear of me.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Obie_Wan

[exphryl]

 

He literally let a Marauder beat him to half health and still blew him up, rested up to 85% HP then killed a Sorc and finally killed the Marauder who he had killed earlier again and then dying due to DoT damage. Oh and *gasp* he didn't overheat in that 1 v 2 like he was crying about how he would because of that gosh darn terrible nerf. (http://www.youtube.com/exphryl)

.

 

I even said, in that video, that Marauder was terrible. Which is the problem people face on these PvP forums. They are terrible players and when they die they want to scream nerf. *ANY* of my Guild's (or other PvP Guild's Mara's) on my server would have killed me easily in that time frame. Not a really good judge of a class.

 

I mean, it's impressive how much health he didn't take off of me. Like he did nothing but his basic attack almost the entire time.

 

The TTK for a Pyro is similar to a LOT of other classes.

 

Also, heat is ruined over the span of a battle, not a 1 on 1 fight which if you were to watch the videos themselves you'd see that rather than picking out a single encounter out of it. That is the issue with the PPA Change.

 

Also think in regards to master strike I'm going to wager the final strike is near 10M? I know it's longer than melee but not sure of the exact.

 

PS: I have an Ego, but I also know the pros and cons of my class and other classes as well.

Edited April 22, 2012 by exphryl

[Gigabolt]

Yeah, because your armor and a flat 25% damage reduction obviously suck ***. It's funny how everybody seems to think their class is the squishiest.

 

Range, a stun, a flat 25% damage reduction and more armor than most dps classes is nowhere close to 1/5. More like 4/5.

 

anyone who actually has played a pyro pt knows that pt have really lacklustre survival tools, pt's in general have to be very situationally aware. they have to be real careful where they position themselves as once they get caught out (unlike majority of other classes) they have no escape method whatsoever. pyro pt has zero method to improve their own mobility, they cannot charge, never benefit from bursts of higher speed, cannot remove snares and the bubble really is a very average def cd, in addition the self heal they have is not an instant. So if they are in bad situation all they can do is either *walk away* or just keep shooting till they drop.

pt's are about initiating, they have the pull and if they choose target correctly then someone going down. They can pop off the odd nasty bit of ranged damage (they have enough range abilities to cause ppl problems) but ultimately they have to get into melee range and when they do they better not get caught out.

 

so to summarise, yes pyro pt brings reliable burst dps to the table, but it could not kite a frozen ****.

[Obie_Wan]

I even said, in that video, that Marauder was terrible. Which is the problem people face on these PvP forums. They are terrible players and when they die they want to scream nerf. *ANY* of my Guild's (or other PvP Guild's Mara's) on my server would have killed me easily in that time frame. Not a really good judge of a class.

 

I mean, it's impressive how much health he didn't take off of me. Like he did nothing but his basic attack almost the entire time.

 

The TTK for a Pyro is similar to a LOT of other classes.

 

Also, heat is ruined over the span of a battle, not a 1 on 1 fight which if you were to watch the videos themselves you'd see that rather than picking out a single encounter out of it. That is the issue with the PPA Change.

 

Also think in regards to master strike I'm going to wager the final strike is near 10M? I know it's longer than melee but not sure of the exact.

 

PS: I have an Ego, but I also know the pros and cons of my class and other classes as well.

 

He was dumb as a doorknob, yes. Can't dispute that, but there aren't many DPS classes that can do so well in 1 v 2 conditions with so little effort, which is exactly what I actually more chuckling about. You were basically jousting those guys, didn't even need to rely on LoS and such. Like I said before. I can't fault you for that, most of my 1 v 2 I come out on top with nary a need for clever use of terrain or creative use of abilities.

 

The only time you overheated was near the end at South where you and your team went through what? 3-4 people? You ended up Flame Bursting the player who was running away and went straight into 90% near the end, where I would've just hammer shotted in that situation, you wanted that kill fast and overheated, plain and simple. Are you seriously complaining that a class like ours who has such a strong front ended burst damage should be going full steam ahead without resource management issues from start to finish? I'm surprised you're still not rolling on the floor crying about how you have pitiful survivability like you were on the PTS forums.

 

 

So yes. You have a big ego. I'm sure you know more nook and crannies than I do with the AC to pull off wins in more advanced fights, but rarely need to use it given the inherent strength of the AC (I know I feel like my IQ dropping when I play my Vanguard for too long). And I know you understand the pros and cons of our AC, and other classes very well.

 

It's just you, like many other players in the community, are very vocal about the cons of our AC and deceptively humble about the pros of our AC. Will I blame you for that? Hard to complain about human nature. Not a lot of people in the world would be willing to go against their own interests.

 

And yes, I would say 10 meters is about right for Master Strike's final hit, most players have better luck LoS it rather than being able to outrun it before it makes contact. I don't think it does the game balance any service for my Guardian's Master Strike to be uninterruptable. I'm not going to become any better of a player when a clearly overpowered mechanic is forcing people to pop their stuns/KBs, which is pretty much their lifeline, against me just to stop a painful channeled hit.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Obie_Wan

[Anbokr]

Pyrotechs literally take off 50% of my health with 1 ability. No joke, no exaggeration. That's just plain ridiculous. No other class in the game can do this with 1 skill.

[SajPl]

Pyrotechs literally take off 50% of my health with 1 ability. No joke, no exaggeration. That's just plain ridiculous. No other class in the game can do this with 1 skill.

 

You have 8k health or less ? Gear up, thats your problem.

 

 

 

As for the general discussion. A marauder will eat a pyro alive and if he can't do that then hes a TERRIBAD marauder. As for big end score numbers. In a voidstar where a pyro does 600k damage a marauder of equal skill should do also between 500-600k damage. If said marauder can't do that, hes a bad marauder and needs to L2P.

[Obie_Wan]

Pyrotechs literally take off 50% of my health with 1 ability. No joke, no exaggeration. That's just plain ridiculous. No other class in the game can do this with 1 skill.

 

Really now? Is this the mystical 31/31/31 Pyrotech that got you?

[nschlan]

Pyrotechs literally take off 50% of my health with 1 ability. No joke, no exaggeration. That's just plain ridiculous. No other class in the game can do this with 1 skill.

 

And you can do the same to them. Pyros are pretty glass cannon. In a 4v4 tourney (pre 1.2) at Outlaw's Den on my server, we dropped an Assault Vanguard (same thing) in about 5 seconds with a Guardian and a Sent. The guy we killed is one of the better Vanguards on the server.

 

Point is, yes they have crazy burst, but CC them or focus them and they're free kills.

[exphryl]

Pyrotechs literally take off 50% of my health with 1 ability. No joke, no exaggeration. That's just plain ridiculous. No other class in the game can do this with 1 skill.

 

Wait. You were the 11K Guy in level 40 PvE gear I went up against yesterday?

 

Makes all the sense now.

 

And Obie, I even said before patch our Burst was too high (I do like to argue with people who don't understand the AC and feel we do 10K Rail shots while /dancing with our portable holo dancer). I just feel BW went about it the wrong way on trying to fix it.

 

There are a lot of ways I would entirely redesign this tree. But obviously it'd fall on deaf ears since they seem to not listen to class feedback anyways... (i.e 4month + Broken Ion Cylinder without even a word about it....)

Edited April 22, 2012 by exphryl

[VoidSpectre]

In all threads about class balance everyone breaks down those one or two guys that lie or beefs up the numbers while no one quotes on or comments on those that have legitimate complaints. I'm not saying pyros are op but in every wz with a not terrible pyro they top dps. And they also kill anyone in single target dos super quick so it's not just aoe numbers

 

I'm not calling them op. but a super high damage elemental tech dps with no real counter to their damage and almost everything instant seems a little off to mee. But I don't know. Elementals means bypasses armor and tech means bypasses all tank stats. They are just unmitigateable insane damage. I think that's the issue

Edited April 22, 2012 by VoidSpectre

[Varicite]

In all threads about class balance everyone breaks down those one or two guys that lie or beefs up the numbers while no one quotes on or comments on those that have legitimate complaints. I'm not saying pyros are op but in every wz with a not terrible pyro they top dps. And they also kill anyone in single target dos super quick so it's not just aoe numbers

 

I'm not calling them op. but a super high damage elemental tech dps with no real counter to their damage and almost everything instant seems a little off to mee. But I don't know. Elementals means bypasses armor and tech means bypasses all tank stats. They are just unmitigateable insane damage. I think that's the issue

 

Marauders and Tankasins are direct counters to Pyro Powertech. That's been mentioned a few times in this thread also. Snipers can also be a pain, but I haven't come across a lot of good ones yet. If you don't have any of those, then just stick any 2 DPS on him and he'll die.

 

Powertechs are indeed strong, but definitely not unstoppable. : )

 

Next time you see that a "not terrible" Pyro killing your team, ask your Ops leader to mark him. See how much less damage he does when he spends all of his time running from the respawn point.

[Wallach]

The main reason you don't see as many whine threads about Pyrotechs is that unlike Marauders/Sentinels they actually give up the majority of defensive utility to do the kind of damage they do. They don't have a cooldown for every class and situation they run into that is on shorter timers than the rest of the classes. They have one defensive cooldown that is on a more reasonable timer, and it's one that doesn't really change the dynamic of the encounter the person the Pyrotech is currently engaging. If people felt like they had no ability to control or stop a Pyrotech in any given fight and they still did as much damage as they did, they'd complain about them just as much.

[roggles]

I've had my shares of 1 v 2s and coming out on top too as an Assault Vanguard.

 

Honestly, don't even talk about asking for more survivability especially with what we already have now.

You want a great example of how durable we can be? Go take a look at Exphryl's 1.2 video that he so proudly presents in his own sig.

 

 

 

It takes a sizeable ego to say the things you do with a straight face, but seeing as how you're putting up videos that's blatantly contrary to your cries of being "too squishy,", "overheating quickly", "poor utilities", it just really goes to show indeed how tremendous that ego of yours really is.

.

 

i agree i dont think anything should change about a PT, good burst not very many outs the price we pay to do our job, but really mara and there 4 defensive CDs is dumb and undying rage really has no reason to be in the hands of DPS that can burst as well as mara's can. mara class i felt was dumb when i played a sorc, cause even if i beat the player in the dps race he just popped undying and win. and honestly i am not upset when a mara kills me in like 5 secs with his bezerk and what not, it the fact that they are always leaving combat right when i am about to win

oh and about PT being easy mode, then why are soo many PTs suck. i saw a proto spamming retractable. just because we dont have many skills to rotate that makes us keyboard rollers??? every attack i do i do purposefully and only in situations where i might be about to die or all other attacks are on CD do i spam Flame burst

Edited April 22, 2012 by roggles