Does anyone truly think marauders/sentinels are balanced?

[Visue]

As a sentinel I do feel that the buff to ravage was overdone.

 

 

Why can't Ravage be interrupted? That's what I'm curious about. Every single one of my Telekinetics sage abilities (which do not hit as hard and require cast times) can be interrupted. Why is Ravage suddenly immune? Beyond resolve-filling knockbacks or stuns, there is no effective counter to that ability right now.

[GamingVertigo]

as a merc i can burn down a Mara/sent as long as i can keep them at a distance, i dont really have a problem with them if you know how to play against them.

[Erishumlol]

That's a cool fake story bro. You should share more fake stories.

 

 

This made me lol so hard

[thepilk]

 

 

Now. The problem I have with them is the amount of interrupts they can deal out. Pretty much the only thing that can outheal the insane burst are spells that take a long time to cast. And I've seen some interrupt every single heal and by the time you can actually cast something

 

 

That particular issue is spec based, not global to sentinel/mauarder.

 

Watchman/Anni spec gets the cooldown of the normal interupt reduced to 6 seconds (with a 4 second lockout), and gets to use Leap at pointblank range for a second interupt. in most situations Leap only gets to function as an interupt from long range and closes you past its reach for future use.

 

The other specs dont have an outrageous ammount of interupts (comparativly speaking). Im not saying the ability to chain 8 interupts is just fine...but its not an aspect of the class, just of one spec in said class.

[AsiriusNazriel]

Marauders are NOT tanks, they have surviveability, not damage mitigation. If Marauders were super uber then tanks wouldn't be needed for PVE content.

 

EVERYONE is putting up really high DPS.

 

The biggest complainers and whiners are gonna be Sorcerors/Sages because they are the squishiest. You guys get 2 CCs and a 3rd if properly spec'd for DOT tree, plus a knockback, plus force speed. And of course the QQ is always the same. Yes we know that if we are good and we get on top of you and you don't CC or knockback like your supposed to, then run away, you're gonna be torn to shreds. The most common forum response is not to CC or knockback but to QQ until the readers eyes bleed. Okay? That still won't make you better PVPers.

 

You guys know why alot of Sages/Sorcerors happen to be horrible, they just run. I'm on their tail putting dots on them and all they do is knockback and run. They don't CC, they don't do jack sqat except run instead of try to win 1on1. There's a couple of good Sages on the server I play on that give me a nice challenge, like a legit one, whereas the rest are just not good at confronting melee classes in PVP.

 

So next thing you know everyone will roll BMs and Troopers and just spam their TM/Grav rounds and followup dps rotatons, you can forget about Marauders because when you get a full team of Troopers focus firing you, you're dead. They'll need just 1 healer for the whole bunch of dps that they unload at range because everyone else will be dead within moments.

 

Point being is less QQ, more Pew Pew.

[Jedikillar]

well let me start by saying i dont have a mara at 50 yet so im not whining to stop them from getting the nerf bat.

 

from what i can tell, maras will kill you if they get in melee. if you are dueling one as a caster, you will lose. if you try to kill one that you let on you instead of getting him off, you will die. but although you might not be able to kill him, you can get away from him. and two oversized glowsticks dont hurt all too much when your 50 yards away from them. i hat maras as a healer myself, but i deal with them. on my lowbie mara, i outdamage most of the other people if not all of them. i think maras should be brought down a little, not a lot, but a little(perhaps one of their defensive cds getting toned down-nothing too major)

Edited May 24, 2012 by Jedikillar

[HurricaneXXIV]

The class is fine. The major thing Maras/Jugs do is test your ability to kite. Any class in this game can be OP (other than dps comando).

 

I have a GS, VG, Guardian, Sage and Sent. All of them have tools that make them every bit as overpowered. I'm not sure why people think their burst is so high, the other classes I play all have higher burst (The Sage Heals). I feel bad for Commandos but feel like the game is fairly well balanced in group combat where people work together.

 

To me a good Guardian is still the most valuable class in the game.

Edited May 24, 2012 by HurricaneXXIV

[Sabredance]

They are not balanced.

 

Claiming otherwise is just denial.

 

Damage is fine.

 

The massive amount of defensive tools is not.

 

As a sentinel I do feel that the buff to ravage was overdone.

 

Ravage damage is in the right spot now.

 

Why can't Ravage be interrupted?

 

That was a good change.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Sabredance

[ekimmak]

PVE - They are mostly balanced

PVP - They are unbalanced

Premade PVP - They are balanced if someone can come to your rescue

[DarthOvertone]

PREPATCH EXPERTISE STATS: 11% more dmg, 11% damage reduced 11% more healing

 

POSTPATCH EXPERTISE STATS: 21% more dmg 17% damage reduced 11% more healing

 

What's interesting post-1.2 is all the QQ about pure DPS ACs. Peeps have their panties in a bunch about Marauders, Pyros and Snipers. They shed massive amounts of tears crying for nerfs to those classes when in reality the first thing that needs to be looked at is Expertise. Sans Expertise, I believe it's highly likely that these DPS classes are not that far out, balance-wise. But because the Expertise stat is currently borked, they seem OP.

 

The poster above is on the right track, even though his agenda is off. Expertise needs a re-evaluation. Fix Expertise and then see how the classes play out. TTK in PvP didn't go through the roof because of changes to the DPS classes. It went through the roof because of the change to Expertise.

[Shakydvs]

Funny story - my team had 6 sent 1 healer and 1 shadow. other team had 3 healers (Merc) 2 sorc 1 PT 1 Mara and 1 Jug.

 

You know who won? they did. I think our team managed to get 4 kills to their 40 sum kills. extremely one sided.

 

Why say this? because Sents are not OP as people make them out to be. the only problem is that people get ROFL stomped by someone playing one and the come here to QQ about it instead of looking at the facts.

 

Anyone wonder why so many are being played? maybe because they're a fun class to play and you get someone with a glow stick actually i get to dual wield them for more awesomeness.

 

Mara/Sents are so easy to shut down but actually requires people to think. People QQ becuase they blew CD's in another fight and cant a sent/mara now..

 

While agree that Sage/Sorc may need something to help them with the heals compared to other classes like Merc/Trooper and Smugger/Op who have free insta cast heals or heals that cant be interrupted.

 

I guess at the end of the day people need to complain. I play Sents cos they are so incredibly fun to play, I also have a sniper 50 who I MELT Sents with. Its not even funny how quick they go down. LOS I lol with instant cast hits that hit like trucks.

 

I also run a trooper and LOL at Mara's who try to dps me down. not only can i out heal them i can still heal others also.... go figure. The only time i have trouble is im being targeted by 2+ and even then at 2 I can usually hold out long enough for help to arrive.

 

Like I said, all the Sorc/Sage are upset they got nerfed, furthermore even I agree they need a little bit of help due to being shut down with interrupts so much, but they are far from defenceless.

[Serpieri]

It's beautiful.

 

These are just as beautiful.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=450942

[clearsighted]

Funny story - my team had 6 sent 1 healer and 1 shadow. other team had 3 healers (Merc) 2 sorc 1 PT 1 Mara and 1 Jug.

 

You know who won? they did. I think our team managed to get 4 kills to their 40 sum kills. extremely one sided.

 

Why say this? because Sents are not OP as people make them out to be. the only problem is that people get ROFL stomped by someone playing one and the come here to QQ about it instead of looking at the facts.

 

Anyone wonder why so many are being played? maybe because they're a fun class to play and you get someone with a glow stick actually i get to dual wield them for more awesomeness.

 

Mara/Sents are so easy to shut down but actually requires people to think. People QQ becuase they blew CD's in another fight and cant a sent/mara now..

 

While agree that Sage/Sorc may need something to help them with the heals compared to other classes like Merc/Trooper and Smugger/Op who have free insta cast heals or heals that cant be interrupted.

 

I guess at the end of the day people need to complain. I play Sents cos they are so incredibly fun to play, I also have a sniper 50 who I MELT Sents with. Its not even funny how quick they go down. LOS I lol with instant cast hits that hit like trucks.

 

I also run a trooper and LOL at Mara's who try to dps me down. not only can i out heal them i can still heal others also.... go figure. The only time i have trouble is im being targeted by 2+ and even then at 2 I can usually hold out long enough for help to arrive.

 

Like I said, all the Sorc/Sage are upset they got nerfed, furthermore even I agree they need a little bit of help due to being shut down with interrupts so much, but they are far from defenceless.

 

You lost because half your team was sucky FOTM rerollers, but that doesn't change the fact that between two good players, a mara/sent has a much greater edge.

[Shakydvs]

You lost because half your team was sucky FOTM rerollers, but that doesn't change the fact that between two good players, a mara/sent has a much greater edge.

 

True my team did suck, but thats not the point. Mara/Sent are supposed to be face roll i pwn noobs. You just clarified my point that you have to be a good player to actually have an edge. its the good players that actually do well but because you see so many mara/sents running around its assumed that they are all OP.

 

Besides I know great Operative/smuggler players that destroy mara/sents I also know great PT's and Tankasins that destroy mara/sents.

 

Good players are good players for a reason. FOTM mara/sents are only good in the hands of a good player but just like every other class suck if the player sucks.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Shakydvs

[Husanak]

Mara / Sent is powerful sure... not sure I would say OP though. Squish cast class goes down fast sure... but I think that is more a failing in the design of our current only real light armour class. With all the short duration defense cool downs in the game they could use one themselves... at that point I think a lot of the oh my goodness the OP Mara / Sent stuff would die a good bit.

 

My Sniper and my GS both CHEW Mara / Sents... as long as I have cool downs and see them coming... if they get a jump on me in the middle of a fight...wait that goes for any class. Get teamed up on or jumped on while your occupied with someone else your likely in trouble.

 

I don't know I think they are fairly ok right now... the burst is very high, but no more then any of the other burst DPS classes. As others have pointed out I think the real issue is the DUMB PvP Stat. Other developers have destroyed there games with PvP stats... and it seems Bioware learned nothing from there failures.

[clearsighted]

True my team did suck, but thats not the point. Mara/Sent are supposed to be face roll i pwn noobs. You just clarified my point that you have to be a good player to actually have an edge. its the good players that actually do well but because you see so many mara/sents running around its assumed that they are all OP.

 

Besides I know great Operative/smuggler players that destroy mara/sents I also know great PT's and Tankasins that destroy mara/sents.

 

Good players are good players for a reason. FOTM mara/sents are only good in the hands of a good player but just like every other class suck if the player sucks.

 

I don't think you get what I was saying at all.

 

Between two good players, who use all the tools at their disposals, a player of a mara/sent has a significant advantage over an equally skilled player of a different class, with only a couple exceptions.

 

This is because of their extremely high damage (acceptable), short duration gap closer (acceptable), 6 second interrupt (acceptable) combined with several of the best defensive cooldowns in the game, all on short cd (45 seconds!!) except for one, which ironically, is the one they share with guardians/juggs. All this combined puts them over the top.

 

Tankassins and pyrotechs are commonly accepted to be only slightly less OP.

 

And operatives are just retarded. They can't win any fight unless they start it with their opponent half dead. And even then, it's sometimes a close call.

Edited May 25, 2012 by clearsighted

[clearsighted]

I mean, seriously. If a mara jumps an operative, that operative is dead meat. Even if they do their instant stealth, a sweep will knock them back out half the time. Operatives HAVE to get the first few attacks in from hiding. They're just obnoxious, because their play style revolves around having to be cowardly gankers. But let's not delude ourselves as to how they'd stack up against a mara.

 

When you see operatives destroying maras, it's because they're probably blowing every trinket they have, and unloading as much damage as possible from stealth. Ops currently destroy all classes when they do that. Maras actually have more tools than most to survive it.

Edited May 25, 2012 by clearsighted

[hankart]

I am a Sentinal Player from Beta on. I am not the greatest or the worst. But I will have to say that Sent/Maras are OP to bad players, I will just own them. But Sent/Maras are balanced and sometimes a little squishy to good players that know the counters, know thier rotation and don't just stand there trying to figure out what to do. So my answer is unbalanced for bads, balanced for good players! Edited May 25, 2012 by hankart

[hyuplee]

I like how they're very, very, very tough to kill. Not just very, or very very, but very, very, very. Also lol'd@impossible to survive them. Come on now. This is exactly why BW should just ignore this forum section, it's a cesspool of ignorance.

 

 

 

You should be playing as a part of your team, not trying to solo Marauders.

 

 

 

Tanksins should win.

 

 

 

You're doing it wrong then.

 

 

 

Oh, now I see. The same people who were crying up a river at release about Ops are the same one's crying up a river now, go figure. Just keep crying about one class to another.

 

Oh man. I'm reading your post and I'm thinking to myself:

 

Now that's someone who actually know what he's talking about.

 

Seriously, I don't mind people calling my class OP, but really, the amount of qq coming from PT and Sins amaze the hell out of me.

 

I don't think you get what I was saying at all.

 

Between two good players, who use all the tools at their disposals, a player of a mara/sent has a significant advantage over an equally skilled player of a different class, with only a couple exceptions.

 

This is because of their extremely high damage (acceptable), short duration gap closer (acceptable), 6 second interrupt (acceptable) combined with several of the best defensive cooldowns in the game, all on short cd (45 seconds!!) except for one, which ironically, is the one they share with guardians/juggs. All this combined puts them over the top.

 

Tankassins and pyrotechs are commonly accepted to be only slightly less OP.

 

And operatives are just retarded. They can't win any fight unless they start it with their opponent half dead. And even then, it's sometimes a close call.

 

Nope. Tank sins and pyrotech are commonly accepted to be the most OP class, you just haven't look harder.

And reading the bit about operative - it is clear to me you have not reach level 50, nor have you an ounce of idea what you're talking about. With all their stuns and ccs, their burst and the ability to fully stealth operative remains the hardest class marauder find to beat at level 50.

 

Get to level 50, get yourself a rakata stim + adrenal, and you'll see how absurdly powerful an operative is.

 

Not that they warrant a nerf of course...

Edited May 25, 2012 by hyuplee

[chadicus]

Clearly imbalanced, probably the worst I've seen any class thus far in SWTOR. No point to even fight against these classes 1 vs 1.

 

 

Operatives and Scoundrels can give them a lot of trouble. Unfortunately, there are only 5 of them left in the whole game.

[hyuplee]

Operatives and Scoundrels can give them a lot of trouble. Unfortunately, there are only 5 of them left in the whole game.

 

Pretty sure you are exaggerating. There are still alot of operative/scoundrel around at level 50. You just haven't look hard enough most likely because your eyes are blinded by the amount of dual lightsabers in a warzone.

[Shakydvs]

I don't think you get what I was saying at all.

 

Between two good players, who use all the tools at their disposals, a player of a mara/sent has a significant advantage over an equally skilled player of a different class, with only a couple exceptions.

 

This is because of their extremely high damage (acceptable), short duration gap closer (acceptable), 6 second interrupt (acceptable) combined with several of the best defensive cooldowns in the game, all on short cd (45 seconds!!) except for one, which ironically, is the one they share with guardians/juggs. All this combined puts them over the top.

 

Tankassins and pyrotechs are commonly accepted to be only slightly less OP.

 

And operatives are just retarded. They can't win any fight unless they start it with their opponent half dead. And even then, it's sometimes a close call.

 

As others have said a well played Op should beat a well played mara. The hybrid spec that gives them instant heals, vanish, removal of dots, stun, cc, 10m range to cc, and another move that makes the mara's hits actually miss (forget the name).... I really dont see how a good ops can lose to a Mara/sent.

 

Funny I have seen good ops pull easy 400k+ with 150k + healing in wz's. Im actually scared by what you say if they are considered bad then hell hath no fury over a well played ops.

 

Also a PT and Tankassins only slightly less OP, maybe you should when you hve some time organise a PT a Tankassins a Mara and an OP and make them all play a round robin of 1v1 ensure you're using good players btw and I reckon you would be very surprised about the result. I could tell you though that Mara/Sent wouldnt actually be the most OP out of that lot.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Shakydvs

[Armelle]

well let me start by saying i dont have a mara at 50 yet so im not whining to stop them from getting the nerf bat.

 

from what i can tell, maras will kill you if they get in melee. if you are dueling one as a caster, you will lose. if you try to kill one that you let on you instead of getting him off, you will die. but although you might not be able to kill him, you can get away from him. and two oversized glowsticks dont hurt all too much when your 50 yards away from them. i hat maras as a healer myself, but i deal with them. on my lowbie mara, i outdamage most of the other people if not all of them. i think maras should be brought down a little, not a lot, but a little(perhaps one of their defensive cds getting toned down-nothing too major)

 

Why did you bump a 5 week old thread?

[clearsighted]

As others have said a well played Op should beat a well played mara. The hybrid spec that gives them instant heals, vanish, removal of dots, stun, cc, 10m range to cc, and another move that makes the mara's hits actually miss (forget the name).... I really dont see how a good ops can lose to a Mara/sent.

 

Funny I have seen good ops pull easy 400k+ with 150k + healing in wz's. Im actually scared by what you say if they are considered bad then hell hath no fury over a well played ops.

 

Also a PT and Tankassins only slightly less OP, maybe you should when you hve some time organise a PT a Tankassins a Mara and an OP and make them all play a round robin of 1v1 ensure you're using good players btw and I reckon you would be very surprised about the result. I could tell you though that Mara/Sent wouldnt actually be the most OP out of that lot.

 

If the only example you can think of is when the operative gets the luxury of the first attack from hiding, then yes, operatives are more OP than maras in that situation. If you can't knock them out of their stealth after they use their two minute vanish (more than twice as long than the mara's CDs), then yes, that's a problem.

 

As for the healing/dotting op hybrids...maras were designed to waste them, with their ability to cripple healing intake and immense sustainable damage.

 

It is true though, that I would rather fight a marauder as part of a premade, than an operative healer. A very good operative healer with their dot heals and surgical probes are very annoying to deal with. Especially when they vanish when someone tries to burst them down. It sometimes feels like one can keep an entire team alive without energy problems. They may not be the biggest single target healer, but in a PvP situation, they can do just enough, while staying extremely mobile, to make a huge difference (I.E, quickly drop two hots on everyone, then run around surgical probing).

 

As for tankassins and pyrotechs...Both are OP as well. Tankassins should do as much damage as shield tech PTs or Immortal juggs, and pyrotechs should be balanced to mercenary pyrotechs. Nothing new there.

Edited May 25, 2012 by clearsighted

[Shakydvs]

If the only example you can think of is when the operative gets the luxury of the first attack from hiding, then yes, operatives are more OP than maras in that situation. If you can't knock them out of their stealth after they use their two minute vanish (more than twice as long than the mara's CDs), then yes, that's a problem.

 

As for the healing/dotting op hybrids...maras were designed to waste them, with their ability to cripple healing intake and immense sustainable damage.

 

It is true though, that I would rather fight a marauder as part of a premade, than an operative healer. A very good operative healer with their dot heals and surgical probes are very annoying to deal with. Especially when they vanish when someone tries to burst them down. It sometimes feels like one can keep an entire team alive without energy problems. They may not be the biggest single target healer, but in a PvP situation, they can do just enough, while staying extremely mobile, to make a huge difference (I.E, quickly drop two hots on everyone, then run around surgical probing).

 

As for tankassins and pyrotechs...Both are OP as well. Tankassins should do as much damage as shield tech PTs or Immortal juggs, and pyrotechs should be balanced to mercenary pyrotechs. Nothing new there.

 

Ok I actually think you and I are banging on the same board here. Mara/Sents are fine except for the time for the cd's which you stated in your last post. They are not OP by any standards are are currently quite balanced in regards to DPS interrupts and gap closers. Even the actual defensive moves they have are needed and are not OP its the CD time on them that makes the ability too strong.

 

If you change that time from 45 seconds to 1 minute would it break the class to being crap. I agree it wont, would 1 minute 15? Anything more and yes I would have a problem with that unless we could spec points into it to reduce the CD, that way it would probably hurt a bit but not kill us. Ill accept that a longer duration for our defensive buffs may work to balance the class a bit more over the current level of survivability it has.

 

That said though Mara/Sents are not OP they just need tweaking.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Shakydvs