Market system is useless, what is the point of 2 day limit?

[terminova]

I don't get the argument here. Why impose the limitations, if someone wants to post an item for 2 days great, if someone wanted to post an item for 7 days thats great too, why create more rules/walls in our way when the game should cater for everyone how they want to play.

 

Fine, I'll explain.

 

No matter what, there will be rules and limitations imposed, and someone will be upset regardless.

 

The reason I believe 2 day listings is fine is NOT because I simply go along with how it is, but because that time limit allows for high turnover of items listed on the GTN giving everyone an equal shot at having their listing being alone at some point instead of having to always list against the player who lists for a week at a time. A two day limit also allows for the market to fluctuate more often and allows players to adjust their prices without losing 3-5 days worth of listing fees when the price drops suddenly.

 

 

So, a short limit to the listing length allows for a more flexible market in the long run.

Edited April 15, 2012 by terminova

[Dragerfroe]

Yes, after playing several other MMO's the market system is not very good.

 

I ask many how they valuate items and many serious users say they use a database system which they personally sell and general observations. This means that the market is a broken system with no real method to valuate and obtain proper supply/demand of the trade network.

 

Why not just mirror the real life solution, ebay? There is a good system of valuation based off supply/demand going on there and well they are successful for a reason not just because they were the first blueocean venture.

 

Suggestions:

 

• 
  bidding format

• longer posting times for higher end items only

• streamlined search function (a basic view - for beginners - and advanced view)
  

Edited May 16, 2012 by Dragerfroe

[DarthTHC]

I frequently post stuff for < 1 day.

 

If you see a lack of items on the market, it's probably because crafters can't figure out how to make and sell it profitably. It probably doesn't have anything to do with maximum listing duration.

[Lamech]

Their point is that you don't need to list items for longer than two days. If something doesn't sell in two days, chances are that either it won't sell at all, the price is too high, or it's an item that doesn't sell fast. I'll relist something, maybe, twice before vendoring it, but listing for longer than two days simply isn't needed. In my opinion, the system currently in place, as far as listing time goes, is fine.

 

As far as I know, the GTN has always been 2 days and is still days max.

 

I disagree, I don't check the GTN everytime I play. Especially with lower level characters. Two days might be fine for lvl 50 items and such but it hinders the sales of lower level items because while levelling you are unlikely to check the GTN all that regularly.

 

Just because it doesn't sell in two days doesn't mean it's not wanted. You say yourself that maybe "it's an item that doesn't sell fast" There are plenty of low price items that I can't be bothered to sell because it's an effort and I may get a mail back in two days. Items a character I have already levelled up would have loved at a certain level. With a longer expiry I would be more tempted to try.

 

This is also compounded by playing alts, there might be something I'm looking for but will only look for the character I'm playing. I will not log on to every character every two days.

 

Maybe it's down to my playstyle but longer than two days would benefit me.

[Allistair]

The length of time isn't really an issue.

The issues are low pop servers and bugs in the GTN

With the lower pop servers the best time for sellers to list is early Saturday morning, being that the pops are highest on the weekend and then it's up for Sat and Sun. Hence this is also the best time to look for items.

 

Now what I'd like to see is it function more like an Auction House.

Seller puts an item up for sale for 7 days with a starting bid of say 500 credits and a Buy it now price of 5,000 credits.

 

Those that want it immediately can buy it immediately for the max price of 5000 credits. OR you can wait it out and bid on it and get outbid and refunded and re-bid. At the end of the 7 days it's mailed to the highest bidder.

 

This is one of only a few things that Turbine did right at DDO.

[JediZenn]

I once tried to us the auction house in this game.

 

After fighting to finally search for something in the first place, I found the entire AH was EMPTY, yes, empty...nobody had anything listed.

 

I haven't bothered to even check again since then...its been months.

[remainderman]

Um, how does a two day limit on posting an item affect a buyer in any way? I'm very confused here.

 

Let me try to clear up your confusion. It's really quite simple:

 

1. When you list something for sale, your market is all of the players who have a need for that itme at that time, have the money to purchase, and have the desire to purchase.

2. By putting it up for 2 days only, you miss those players who need that item on the third+ day, providing you didh't re-list. If you can place it for 30 days (this would be a logical minimum), then the chances for the right circumstances for a sale greatly increase.

3. Also, as a seller, i gave up using the GTN to sell because it was way to much of a hassle. To actually sell items as a crafter, you would typically list many items. Even if half sold, you still get a mail box full of returns in 2 days. For me, I just said screw it. I'm not going waste time placing items just to turn around in 2 days and have to deal with the unsold items.

 

Bottome line, if BW wants the GTN to be viable, then they need to think about how an economy works and allow the players to emulate it. What if your local grocery store had milk for sale for 2 days only, and you didn't need milk until the 4th day. You say that they never have what I need, and they would say that no one buys the stuff they put out (even at low prices). Hmmm ... sound familiar?

[YanksfanJP]

Do you understand how a distribution curve works? Not everything posted was posted at the beginning of that day you missed. Half of it would have been posted before, half afterwards. Thats assuming even a somewhat evenly distributed posting of items available for sale.

 

Yes, you have pretty much missed half of available inventory.

 

You're still wrong. If you miss one day, you miss nothing. Everything that's posted for two days was on the GTN either the day you missed and the day before, or the day you missed and the day after. And since you didn't miss the day before or the day after, you still got to see everything and miss nothing.

 

The only things you might miss are things that were posted for less than two days, but since the post you replied to says "and everything is posted for two days" we're not talking about that stuff. Even if we were, there's no way you can assume that half of inventory is posted for 1 day or less, anyway.

[MWElpers]

Coming from Eve Online the Market in this game is a joke (where you can post sales for up to 90 days by the way). I agree with the OP that the 2 day limit and the constant re-posting of items every other day is both annoying and a barrier to participation in the long run, but what I really miss are the historical tools to show you pricing trends, volumes, etc. Or the ability to put up large quantities of materials & folks can just buy as much as they need. Also, no way to package items in groups, with mods, to sell as a complete set of armor, etc.

 

To the OP's point, I have made enough alts to cover all crafting and am working them all up to 400 so I don't need to deal with the variability of available resources and prices on the GTN. It's so much easier to just make what you need than to use the market, which is not a good indication of long-term viability.

 

The fact that the market is also not cross factional is another point against it. Why artificially limit your economy? That was a terrible design decision.

Edited May 16, 2012 by MWElpers

[Mindsplitter]

A two day limit works just fine on a Standard to Full server. That's the major problem. On low population servers you have an empty GTN. Bioware needs to get their act together and get those server transfers moving.

[Tuscad]

This isn't WOW. And the two day limit doesn't work out fine. It sucks, its a pain in the ***, and this person is right. Fix it!

 

This^ We should have like a week/7 day limit. I understand their is a limit to prevent overcrowding but damn, there isn't any sort of crowding on my server's GTN.

[Deewe]

The 2 days limit is indeed annoying especially since the system does not remember the last posted/sold price and it's a bugger on empty servers.

 

Also as mentioned by others we're lacking a real bidding system and I'd even like to have an optional proxy bid system. Now that would be interesting.

 

Also being obliged to go to a GTN terminal isn't convenient.

 

So suggestions:

• Allow longer auctions duration (EvE... rocks!)
  
• Bidding (Like all MMO)
  
• Managing GTN from our Datapad (GTN & Mailboxes doesn't promote socialization)
  
• Allow players to buy any quantities from stock piles
  
• Better UI tools (WoW auctioneer)
  

Edited May 16, 2012 by Deewe

[JustTray]

Actually, your issue is, "My server is dead."

 

At least know what your issue is before you complain about random stuff.

 

I made roughly 20 million credits off of lvl40-50 spaceship parts. I also quit. Hence, Daragon Trail has no one selling those parts except for retarded prices.

[TheBBP]

I started on a new server. Went from 8k creds to near 40k creds before I got my ship on Coruscant. The market works great.

[Sotaudi]

While I would support a longer time frame, those claiming that the 2-day limit is an artificial barrier are simply wrong. There are a lot of factors involved. First, developers use both a time limit and the requirement of a deposit to help stop people from using the market as extra bank space. Without those, people would just post things on the market for outrageous prices no one would pay and leave them there, freeing up bank/inventory space. Imposing limits and deposits makes that much less workable.

 

Second, forcing sellers to repost their wares periodically forces them to re-evaluate the price of an item that has not sold. Without this forced time limit, they can leave an overpriced item on the market indefinitely. That both clutters the market with overpriced items and causes a false impression of the selling price of items for both buyers and new sellers. If the seller feels their asking price is fair, they can simply repost the item at the same price. On the other hand, being forced to repost will give them a chance to realize that, if it didn't sell at this price the last three times they posted it, it probably isn't the right price. This forces them to decide if they want to sell the item at a lower price or vendor it or give it to someone. If they lower the price and repost it, it is good for the market by having it more realistically priced. If they vendor it or give it to someone, it is good for the market by lowering the supply to a more realistic level.

 

Could the period be longer? I have no problem with it being a bit longer as two days seems a bit short. However, the idea that there should be no limit or that the limit is some kind of unjustified barrier is simply wrong. Oh, and WoW is not the only MMO to maintain a 2-day post limit. LotRO does as well, or at least it used to.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Sotaudi

[FITorion]

there's no point putting anything up for sale until the weekend. There simply isn't enough people to buy the stuff during the week.

 

No one buy's gear on the GTN. People only buy Orange gear and mods for the gear. They should just make everything orange and be done with it.

 

No one is buying low level stuff either. Leveling is too fast. The gear you get for quests is too good. The amount of money you get at low level is too little. If leveling from 10 to 20 took weeks to a couple months worth of play time... and if you didn't get any gear for quests and instead got money... Then people would be looking to gear themselves up to help them level. Every level or two there should be a new set you can buy... these things should be crafter provided.

 

As it is now any potential customer has out leveled what ever you would sell them within two days...

[Korusus]

Obviously the problem is a lack of population. I hate crafting, the way I stay equipped on my alts is through orange gear. I barely even bothering checking the GTN anymore because there is nothing on there. A longer time limit would help alleviate the problems caused by a LACK of population. The GTN is broken, period. There's no way of knowing the value of an item. I just post stuff and knock off half the price just so people rolling alts and companions can buy the stuff if they want, if it doesn't sell I immediately vendor it and move on with my life.

 

Another problem is sooo much green gear drops that in one play session you can have 30 GTN worthy items, it's just too annoying to bother since lack of population means no one is going to buy the stuff anyway.

 

It's not the GTN, it's the dead servers.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Korusus

[Zannis]

It's an issue on unpopulated servers / factions.

 

As always, it comes back to server pops. And you would, of course, be right. I've tried to sell augmented chest pieces, and had some success with them in the beginning of 1.2.

 

Now, they sit and rot on the GTN. There just aren't enough people playing the game. One time, non-consumable purchases (Such as armor pieces, mods, weapons...anything that isn't Biochem, basically) are difficult to move since there just aren't enough bodies on a given server. Once a person has bought all the gear they need, the market for crafters shrinks by a single character.

 

This isn't a problem on healthy servers with vibrant end game scenes and lots of people leveling alts.

[ShadowOfVey]

It's so overpriced items don't sit there forever clogging up search results.

[Korusus]

It's so overpriced items don't sit there forever clogging up search results.

 

Clogging up search results? That would imply that there's enough there to clog up.

 

I can literally track the health of my server by watching the health of the GTN. Back in December and January the GTN was awesome. Then it was awesome for a bit with 1.2 and Rakghoul event. Now it's dead.

[ShadowOfVey]

Clogging up search results? That would imply that there's enough there to clog up.

 

I can literally track the health of my server by watching the health of the GTN. Back in December and January the GTN was awesome. Then it was awesome for a bit with 1.2 and Rakghoul event. Now it's dead.

 

Problem unrelated to GTN.

[Korusus]

Problem unrelated to GTN.

 

The GTN needs players to use it in order for it to serve a purpose. No players = GTN useless. Extending the posting time helps to alleviate the problem without addressing the core issue -- Dead Servers.

[Anti_Bodies]

They should bump it up to 3 days.

 

Slow/steady improvements is how you don't overcorrect. I do find it annoying that I have to constantly shove my items back out on the market. Wish I didn't have to as often. Also I notice that the GTN doesn't usually have what I am looking for. thus more time = better for all.

[Kubernetic]

One purpose is so that the GTN isn't cluttered up by junk that's been sitting there for 2 weeks with no one buying it.

 

It's almost no effort to repost things every 2 days for sale... unless you just don't want to log in.

[trussasp]

The point of the 2 day limit was (assuming more people were playing) to eat up more listing fees, a gold sink.

 

In WoW, 48 hours is more than long enough to sell your stuff, but in SWTOR, a week would be more like it, given the lack of players, at least on both of my servers.

 

We just need more people playing (per server), is the dilly-o, yo.