Chewpaco Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Few mods or macros I see nowadays trivialize a game anymore than stuff like keybinding. I have third-party hardware like my Naga that makes gameplay far easier than any macro or addon does. If anything, macros and addons help bridge that gap between people who can and can't afford such options. If you want to play just the base game, that's largely what console games are for. The PC community anticipates and often expects some kind of open-source experience from PC games nowadays. As for everybody playing on the same playing field, that's never going to happen simply due to hardware and other options available outside the game. Someone with a 12-button mouse is going to have an advantage over someone with a 3-button mouse. Someone with a great internet setup will be able to perform better than someone with rather shoddy internet. Someone with a programmable, customizable keyboard will have an advantage over someone with a basic keyboard. What's nice about macros and addons is that they're available to anyone who has an internet connection. Often what's being trivialized is bad game design. In early WoW, addons like Deadly Boss Mods where all but required because otherwise noticing what the boss was doing and when was very difficult to notice. Compare that to nowadays, where bosses make is clear when they're about to do something, and DBM doesn't really do much. I see addons like buying an arcade joystick back in the day of the NES. Sure, having a multiple button joystick made playing Street Fighter II easier than playing with the standard controller, but is that really where one wants challenge to come from? Pressing 3 buttons takes longer than pressing 2, should all actions take 3 button presses to work? How about 4? If I use a healing ability, should it require me typing out up up, down down, left right left right ab left-mouse click to do so? So restrict the addon api so it can't do it to that extent. Hardware advantages are already a reality in this game. Addons and macros help bridge that gap free of charge. It clearly tells you on the box, what the minimum requirements, and the recommended requirements are for SWTOR. If you have the reccomended requirements. You can compete with high-end gaming computer users. I am not against BioWare changing their UI - or making it more user friendly. Improving it as the community sees fit. Making more to industry standard as far as other games out there. What I am against - is 3rd party development of such tools. If there needs to be more than 1 UI - so be it. If BioWare doesn't have the time to develop it, fine - outsource it. But control it so strictlly that maybe there is only 2 other options available. Endorsed by BioWare, released by BioWare, and updated by BioWare. That way - when decisions about class balance, encounter design are made - they just have 2 or 3 UI's that they are making decisions off of. Not 25. Go to curse.com and look at all the different add-ons available for WoW. How can a developer possibly know the function of each and every add-on and make sound decisions on development of encounters and class balance - with so many options? They can't. Thus FOTM is spawned. Less customizable UI's, means less rebalancing of classes. Because they get a truer sense of what a characters cabablities are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewpaco Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 People will always find a way to complain that the game doesn't help them play in some way they're used to. Elitists will always find a way to brand other players as poor so they can feel better. This is MMO life. Tell that to the EVE crowd, probably the most competitive MMO out there. Tell it to DarkFall players. Full PvP loot. Great Post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axemar Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I shall start work on my 2,500 line game-beating excel-online ZOMG MEGA LAZORS pew pew macro post haste! Yes. And I must be able to keybind it to G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraithwarr Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I sorely underestimated just how poor the UI would turn out. It is so uncustomizable it isn't funny. Health bars, buffs, debuffs, and the power bar are all WAY too small. You can't move or resize anything, I HATE having the chat box up the top. Not having a damage meter or even a freaking combat log is ridiculous. Why shouldn't we even know how much damage we're doing? I want to know what the best rotation is for my character and I have absolutely no way of working that out. Macros are a staple in every MMO, how can you just not have them? There's a nice focus target but it's practically useless without focus macros. These should be top priority for the next patch. I disagree. macros have ruined many a good mmo. i don't want to see this wonderful game devolve into the macro snoozefest that ruined rift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 It clearly tells you on the box, what the minimum requirements, and the recommended requirements are for SWTOR. If you have the reccomended requirements. You can compete with high-end gaming computer users. And anyone following the bare minimum will be at a disadvantage compared to someone with better hardware, specifically in regards to input devices. You can't stop people from programming basic scripts into the more advanced mice and keyboards that will give them a competitive advantage. Macros and addons could easily help even that playing field, but apparently you don't want that. I am not against BioWare changing their UI - or making it more user friendly. Improving it as the community sees fit. Making more to industry standard as far as other games out there. What I am against - is 3rd party development of such tools. If there needs to be more than 1 UI - so be it. If BioWare doesn't have the time to develop it, fine - outsource it. But control it so strictlly that maybe there is only 2 other options available. Endorsed by BioWare, released by BioWare, and updated by BioWare. 3rd party development is letting the community itself directly take control of what they need. And so long as Bioware keeps a tight reign on the api, addon developers can only do what Bioware allows them. Instead of having us tell Bioware what we want them to implement, why not allow us to directly implement those changes ourselves, within the context of a restricted api? That way - when decisions about class balance, encounter design are made - they just have 2 or 3 UI's that they are making decisions off of. Not 25. Go to curse.com and look at all the different add-ons available for WoW. How can a developer possibly know the function of each and every add-on and make sound decisions on development of encounters and class balance - with so many options? They can't. Considering Blizz developed the api that the developers are using in the first place, yes, yes they can. Every 'function' is based on service calls that Blizzard provided in the first place. Thus FOTM is spawned. Less customizable UI's, means less rebalancing of classes. Because they get a truer sense of what a characters cabablities are. Your characters capabilities are ultimately determined by their talent trees and skills allowed, not by how cluttered up or clean the u.i. is. Classes get rebalanced when certain combinations of abilities and/or gear are vastly overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trucegore Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 /NoSign We don't need no mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeh Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 DPS Meters turn a game into work. Want to know if you are doing well enough? Did the boss die? If so, you are fine! If not, use the brain to figure out what went wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saregon Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 No mods/macros necessary. l2play basically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I disagree. macros have ruined many a good mmo. i don't want to see this wonderful game devolve into the macro snoozefest that ruined rift. ... Sigh. All caps time. NOBODY WANTS COMPLETE GAME AUTOMATION. Most of us just want to be able to do this: /cast <some heal> @ <target of my current target> or this: /cast <some heal> @ <player under my mouse cursor> That's it. That's what this has mostly boiled down to when it comes to healers anyhow. We don't want some stupid casting sequence or auto-dispels or anything else like that. Just a bloody quality-of-life upgrade for our miserable healing experience of having to use the default raid frames. Bloody lunatics the lot of you. And you wonder why you spend an hour looking for a healer to fill that last slot. Edited December 20, 2011 by ironix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaffen Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) mods + macro's + ui scale would rock Edited December 20, 2011 by vaffen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 DPS Meters turn a game into work. Want to know if you are doing well enough? Did the boss die? If so, you are fine! If not, use the brain to figure out what went wrong. And if what 'went wrong' was that one or more people weren't doing enough damage? Instead of having a meter to tell us who was doing what in terms of damage, interrupts, cc, etc, it's better to guess as to who wasn't doing their job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_White Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Meh, I don't need mods or macros, honestly. The only features I'm really missing are a more customizable UI where I can adjust frame & bar locations on my screen and mouse-over targeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceManLoneWolf Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The UI needs some improvements, but the game absolutely does not need Addons or even macros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raelstrom Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Macros make it easier for gold farmers and spammers to ply their trade. Macros play the game for you. Take away the gold farmer tools and play the game for yourself. Play the game. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Macros make it easier for gold farmers and spammers to ply their trade. Macros play the game for you. Take away the gold farmer tools and play the game for yourself. Play the game. Have fun. You know what... I give up. This is utterly hopeless. The community on these forums are about as smart as a sack of rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I could use a UI upgrade. The rest can suck it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 You know what... I give up. This is utterly hopeless. The community on these forums are about as smart as a sack of rocks. It can't be helped. You're dealing with people who think mere scripts are actually major cracking that's changing the game executable and rewriting the game itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterWratten Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 ... Sigh. All caps time. NOBODY WANTS COMPLETE GAME AUTOMATION. Most of us just want to be able to do this: /cast <some heal> @ <target of my current target> or this: /cast <some heal> @ <player under my mouse cursor> That's it. That's what this has mostly boiled down to when it comes to healers anyhow. We don't want some stupid casting sequence or auto-dispels or anything else like that. Just a bloody quality-of-life upgrade for our miserable healing experience of having to use the default raid frames. Bloody lunatics the lot of you. And you wonder why you spend an hour looking for a healer to fill that last slot. 100% agreed! Mods (i.e. Healbot, Grid, Clique) would be super nice, but if I can just get macros, as a healer, I would be way happier. I think the problem is, people don't quite understand what is being asked for, and are simply seeing the negative aspects. While I can agree that there are some negative aspects to some mods, the majority of them are completely harmless and helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buur Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Macros make it easier for gold farmers and spammers to ply their trade. Macros play the game for you. Take away the gold farmer tools and play the game for yourself. Play the game. Have fun. Holy... wow. Do some research man, then come back with an informed opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidBabyPanda Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I think Macros and Addons would be nice, but aren't entirely necessary. I think some of the more popular features should be hard-coded into the game. They should definitely include the ability to resize and move your bars, I think that's an absolute no-brainer. Some basic macro ability might be handy as well. I havn't played WoW (or any MMO) in a long time, but I remember having a macro in WoW that let me target the Main Assist's target very easily, and i miss that, although I admit that could be in SWTOR and I just havn't found it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarberg Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Meh, I don't need mods or macros, honestly. The only features I'm really missing are a more customizable UI where I can adjust frame & bar locations on my screen and mouse-over targeting. This. So much this. As a long-time healer of more than a few MMOs, this is all I want. I don't care about epeen meters or macros that automate, since I'm enjoyiing the look and feel and storyline of this game, but if I'm in a group because I make health bars happy, I want to be able to look at stuff around me a bit more and said health bars a little less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anasiati Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I think there's room for work, it'll just take people staying on their toes and paying attention rather than relying on a mod to do it. IMO macros are fine, as long as you're not chaining abilities together, I'm all for binding /commands into hotslots. I think the design and layout of the interface are great, It would be nice to see some numerical values on heath/energy and such but nothing I'd even thought was worth complaining about. to each their own i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinku Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 People not wanting add-ons, are generally the people that were refused from raids and stuff cause their DPS was too low . To be honest, Add-ons should be in, maybe just make it so you can only see it yourself, but i'd like to see my dps so i know how to improve, or see my threat as tank. And especially customizable UI stuff, changing healthbars/target bars, target of target, buff displays, the general UI stuff should be customizable. Macros or stuff like deadly boss mods i do not care about. Spoken like a true eliteist A-hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrisheyezSJC Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Give it time, it will have mods/macros lol. No game did at launch or pre-release. I mean seriously ppl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knyghtprowler Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The worst part is the BW's stance on this is that they don't want them. So it's not even part of the design. Other MMO's design thier games with the intent on allowing this stuff and so they build in features that support it. Even if they do fold and allow us to mod or use macros... it will be implemented as an after thought... My guess is that it will only be a limited at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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