What happened to real Gamers?

[PatT]

I came from a different genre. I started with (my first addiction to gaming) was Civilization. The first. The original. The Sid Meyer. And then Civ II (I still miss floods and earthquakes and other random tragedies). I still play Civ. 5 now. But my fav was Civ 3. Oddly enough.

 

And when you lost there, (or died) that was the end of the game. Your name as Tatica the Unready went up on the leader board for all time. Unless you cleared it.

 

Never played wow. I heard they have pandas.

 

But I've been playing games of one sort or another for twice as long as some of you have been on earth. I'm just going with the flow here... and I enjoy the leveling exp. What's the rush to 50? Isn't the journey as important (or maybe even more so) than the destination? It is when I travel. The journey itself is life. The only thing at the end of life is death. So enjoy your life, one day at a time, and enjoy the leveling while you do it. Rushing to get to the end only leads to disappointment in what you find at the end. Duh.

 

I'm also old enough that I remember when Color TV became a must have and Microwave ovens were the new thing. There was no remote control. I remember pong. Adventure (pure text) on a xt pc. We did that one night when the weather knocked the power out at work.

 

LIfe is an adventure, not a goal. The journey is life, not the destination. Slow down and enjoy it. You won't get another chance at today.

[Kaisernick]

Infact any serious MMO players/gamers I know look on WoW the same way they would an early learning book.

hay those books are a challenge.

 

as for those bashing the op for bringing up WoW i beleive it is a good reference if u read the first part, like this game wow at the start had bug and problems and unbalanced issues in vanilla and so has tor, the rest could easily refer to any mmo.

 

and the last game i played that i truly felt like i had achived something was rogue squad on the gamecube, that death star 2 run was really really hard but i kept going saying "ive allways compleated a star wars game (except jedi power battles) i will do this) and after 2 week at 1 in the morning i did, and the feeling was great.

 

but with all games since ive never really felt a sence of acomplishment and it isnt biowares fault that i havent here either, its these i want everything now people.

[GalacticKegger]

"Old school" video gamers grew from table top gaming. Where taking hours to strategize one thing - only to have the cat leap onto the table because it was hungry and scatter everything from hell to breakfast - was as bad as it got. Now we have email, cell phones, texts, tweets & Facebook where everything happens instantly. It’s called immediate gratification and a lifestyle expectation that has unfortunately spilled over into the gaming world as a gameplay expectation. Developers had no choice but to acquiesce so now the games are tailored for it, which in turn is grooming a new generation of "I want it all & I want it now" gamers. Edited April 26, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Aluo]

That type of gamer is still around. The thing you may not be addressing is the fact that gaming is now so mainstream people of that type blend into the background to avoid the masses of noobs.

 

Feel free to come over to my guild, we are all rather hardcore.... and 30

[Aluo]

"Old school" video gamers grew from table top gaming. Where taking hours to strategize one thing - only to have the cat leap onto the table because it was hungry and scatter everything from hell to breakfast - was as bad as it got. .

 

hahahaha...sigh.... been there. /hi5:p

[Steelyeye]

The one thing I would love to see Blizzard do is to ban all the addons just for one day, then record some of these "elite" raiders try and conduct just one raid. It would be more fun to watch than seeing a trainwreck.

 

Yep.. I miss the old days, even the pre-WoW old days. Sure you had the grind, but for some reason the harder it was to do something the more you wanted to do it. And the more fun it was to. MMO today just get boring after a few raids.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Steelyeye

[AntonAlex]

I'm surprised so many older people have commented on this thread.

Real gamers?!

The topic and some of the replies remind me of the 80's when all us kids were calling someone a poser if you didn't go to a certain amount of concerts, own a certain amount of merch, wear the right cloths etc to fit into your chosen scene.

The original post has good points on discussing game reward vs time mechanics but seriously... Your not a real gamer if ... blah blah.

 

Because a 16 year old who skips school to memorize every map and hone his muscle reflex to millisecond accuracy for months on a FPS game that means he is 'real gamer' by your definition.

Everyone has different priority, time constraints and desires out of gaming and finding the balance for all those types is very hard to do for any MMO.

Hence why sacrifices such as solo leveling ease and even graphical complexity are all watered down so they can appeal to the most people.

I can start ************ about how real gamers should all have a minimum 3000 dollar water cooled PC and this game should support only those minimum specs for us true hardcores, and forget the people who aren't real gamers enough to upgrade.

Its pretty much what is happening here except time is being substituted for pc investment.

[GalacticKegger]

The one thing I would love to see Blizzard do is to ban all the addons just for one day, then record some of these "elite" raiders try and conduct just one raid. It would be more fun to watch than seeing a trainwreck.

ZOMG ... I'd pay for a livestream to see that!

[Captain_Zone]

Oh, they're out playing real games.

 

I mean, no offense, but being good at an MMO does NOT make you a gamer. My 58-year old mother plays MMOs, and I just introduced her to Alt-F4 the other week. Everything worth doing in an MMO requires a group of people. Killed a champion 1v1? Good for you, seriously. But for real thrills, you should try out some of the more popular single-player games. I recommend strategy games or survival horror.

 

Emphasis on the last one. Lock yourself in your house with all the lights off and only some junk food and an attention-starved black cat for company. Best results come from Silent Hill or Resident Evil 0-4.

 

For strategy: Civilization, Total War, Tobruk, Steel Horse (VERY obscure title, but it was a tank commander game with a not-very-friendly UI)

 

Original survival horror games are vastly overrated, imo. The camera was garbage. "Oooh, running down this hallway... *camera changes to the next section of hallway* and run smack into a Zombie that starts chomping on me immediately." HELLLOOOOOO!!!! Seriously, the camera caused more deaths than lack of ammo.

That said, the problem solving was also pretty asinine. Find a weird looking key for a weird looking lock in an otherwise normal looking house. Waitwhat????

[Clearch]

EQ was my first mmo. I think back with nostalgia and have never recaptured that feeling of risk vs reward. That being said there is no way in hell almost 12 years later, married now with a family that I could or would do that grind again.

 

SWTOR is a game designed for the casual player like me and will never appeal to hard core gamers.

[Malles]

Original survival horror games are vastly overrated, imo. The camera was garbage. "Oooh, running down this hallway... *camera changes to the next section of hallway* and run smack into a Zombie that starts chomping on me immediately." HELLLOOOOOO!!!! Seriously, the camera caused more deaths than lack of ammo.

That said, the problem solving was also pretty asinine. Find a weird looking key for a weird looking lock in an otherwise normal looking house. Waitwhat????

 

And do it in less than five hours total play time! THAT'S gaming. Cruising around in a virtual world with seven other people helping you do everything? That's not gaming, that's a scotch-fueled Saturday night.

 

Oh, and you FPS kiddies can get lost. Try playing Goldeneye 64 against a screen-peaking little brother with a love for playing Oddjob. Or, since this is a Star Wars forum, any of the Jedi Knight games. Heck, the smurfs from Star Wars: Battlefront understand teamwork better than half the players I meet in PvP

Edited April 27, 2012 by Malles

[sergioazamuth]

And do it in less than five hours total play time! THAT'S gaming. Cruising around in a virtual world with seven other people helping you do everything? That's not gaming, that's a scotch-fueled Saturday night.

 

Oh, and you FPS kiddies can get lost. Try playing Goldeneye 64 against a screen-peaking little brother with a love for playing Oddjob. Or, since this is a Star Wars forum, any of the Jedi Knight games. Heck, the smurfs from Star Wars: Battlefront understand teamwork better than half the players I meet in PvP

 

Goldeneye 64, now that brought back a lot of memories...playing with my screen-peaking cousin though.

 

Now, I've played UO for some time when I was younger, I played a few others after that, but I mostly focused on school back then, so I just came back to playing MMOs now. Even with that time away I'd like to think myself an "Old-School" real gamer. New player can be real gamers too, they'd just need to throw aside this love for fancy graphics and skills and try their hand playing some older MMOs with us. Now that would teach 'em something about gaming.

 

But I don't see that happening so...meh, invalid post lol

[Malles]

Goldeneye 64, now that brought back a lot of memories...playing with my screen-peaking cousin though.

 

Now, I've played UO for some time when I was younger, I played a few others after that, but I mostly focused on school back then, so I just came back to playing MMOs now. Even with that time away I'd like to think myself an "Old-School" real gamer. New player can be real gamers too, they'd just need to throw aside this love for fancy graphics and skills and try their hand playing some older MMOs with us. Now that would teach 'em something about gaming.

 

But I don't see that happening so...meh, invalid post lol

 

Lol, took my own advice and started up a play through of Star Wars: Dark Forces. It was once considered one of the best FPSs of its time, and I was playing through the PC version thinking, "Wow, these are some ****** graphics.".

 

Can't really judge though. Back them, Lara Croft's famous rack was just a pair of triangles.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

For strategy: Civilization, Total War, Tobruk, Steel Horse (VERY obscure title, but it was a tank commander game with a not-very-friendly UI)

 

Original survival horror games are vastly overrated, imo. The camera was garbage. "Oooh, running down this hallway... *camera changes to the next section of hallway* and run smack into a Zombie that starts chomping on me immediately." HELLLOOOOOO!!!! Seriously, the camera caused more deaths than lack of ammo.

That said, the problem solving was also pretty asinine. Find a weird looking key for a weird looking lock in an otherwise normal looking house. Waitwhat????

 

Are you nuts? Orginal Survival horror was awesome! The crap camera angles made it all the more fun. You round a corner and smack into a zombie really got your heart pumping.

[Captain_Zone]

Are you nuts? Orginal Survival horror was awesome! The crap camera angles made it all the more fun. You round a corner and smack into a zombie really got your heart pumping.

 

I was referring to running down a STRAIGHT hallway. You know the ones I'm talking about. Not around a corner. Just a really long hallway with multiple cameras. Where ANYONE with LOS in front would have been able to see the Zombies waiting for them.

[Sammm]

Is there really an universal definition for a "real gamer" especially in this day and age where gaming has become such a popular hobby?

[Hotbox]

I played my first video game in 1977-- Pong. I used to play that stupid game until 1am for hours, and then got up to play it again.

 

Pong. Black and White Pong on a console that didn't play anything else.

 

As time went on, so did my gaming. When VGA 256 color came out I nearly died. I played them all from Wasteland, to Castle Wolfenstein, to Intellivision and Atari, to colecovision. They were all hard, difficult to master and impossibly shallow but incredibly addictive.

 

In 2000 I started playing my first MMO's , and then in 2003 I played SWG for the first time. It took months to unlock a jedi, more months just to level it up. If you think grinding now is hard, try levelling up a pre-NGE jedi. Over those years until today, 2012, I built a gaming guild called Clan of the Black Lotus. As the years changed so did the guild. The old hardcore gamers left to marry, have kids, change jobs. Some passed away. Some just faded away. But as time progressed I saw the players change. They became more obsessed with gear rather than server influence. claimed everyone was hacking or cheating when they died in PVP, cared little about killing the enemy, only about getting the next piece of purple gear.

 

It saddened me and I made the mistake of trying to teach them the value of hard work and putting in your dues. I tried to show them that you pick a side and fight for it, not play both sides of the faction fence and then complain about which class was OP. Raiding had become the focus of guild efforts, not a pleasant pastime for a few hours of gaming attention.

 

It had become about loot and the easy way, not about teamwork and reputation.

 

Many rebelled and left for other guilds and games that were easier and supported their wayward ways. I forced many of them out and now only the last few older diehards are left. We still play the same way, but I lament the way of things and the state of gaming these days. Now I play for a few hours then log off to do something else. Developers focus on graphics and content rather than gameplay and it shows-- 3 months into a game and people are asking when the game will go F2P or to merge servers due to low populations.

 

And yet, me a few left in my guild who still play the old way, and obviously the OP of this thread, still remember the late nights with games like Pong with no graphics or content and kept our attention all night long.

 

We dream of days past, swept away by the sands of time and change, and hope that one day a developer will build a game to cater to the hardcore gamer.

 

Here's to hope.

[mav_andreyo]

Is there really an universal definition for a "real gamer" especially in this day and age where gaming has become such a popular hobby?

 

I can speak only for me and my opinion on this matter, but i'm sure some of you would agree, SO

I guess that's it.

The fact that there is, but getting close to WAS.

A real gamer, one that needs real games with real challenges.

And when you can earn/get or become just as Geared when you play 3 hours a day as when you do what a dedicated gamer does and play every hours you can spare and even some you can't spare but you do anyways. And when the fact that playing more = You learn more, how to play the class better, rotations, etc etc more or less slowly fade and become less useful ( of course, It still does have advantages to do so but not nearly on the same level as it used to )

In general : Everything becomes FAR less of a challenge because of what you say "gaming has become such a popular hobby" and games get made for every type of player, young players bring revenue to the company so they make it easier to get that generation interested and happy.

Based on all that and hundreds of other reasons both more and less important, the era of "real gamers" is close to extinction.

 

Oh and : With time you get more and more features added to a game, and when it comes to the games needed balance it only gets harder. And I would say : Quality before Quantity!

 

Feel free to comment if you agree or disagree!

[TheLordMagnus]

Now that's a scary thought. Four to six hours a day? That's not a gamer, that's a candidate for psychotherapy.

 

All things in moderation -- so says the Mighty Apollo.

 

 

maybie u need to think outside what your view of a gamer is not a casual player

[AnimalMotherr]

I hate to use WoW as a reference for my post but if there are any real gamers out there left they will understand. First of all this post is just my observation it's not based on any fact or stats it's just what I have seen over the years of being a online gamer.

 

Back in the early days WoW was to the online gaming world what SWTOR is attempting to be now. There was nothing out there like it. From day one it had so many bugs so many fixes actually getting a full day of gaming in was next to impossible, my point is through all of that we stuck it out and no one can argue with the numbers that game achieved as far as player base.

 

During the life of the game many things a lot of us play for today were introduced, if you remember those early Molten Core (MC) runs you know what I'm talking about, The Grind. MC made a lot of old gamers fall in love with gaming. Back in those days you had to put in work to get the things you wanted. A group of individuals spent countless hours on encounter after encounter repair run after repair run trying to master that instance. Sacrifices were made, the raid was suppose to end at 11 but its pushing 1 am you got to be up for work in 4 hours and everyone was like lets give it one more try we got him to 40% that time we can do better. What happened to those gamers?

 

As I read these forums I wonder why some of the people making post on here even game. I got beat by so and so, my DPS is too low, this is over powered, I got nerfed, the post seem to be endless, it has become so bad I can tell by the Title weather its worthy of my time to even read. When did gaming become an entitlement?

 

Yes in the game I have been face rolled many times by another player, OP's have stunned locked me to death, Sorc's have nuked me to death, Bh's have tracer missile me to death, I think I have been on the receiving end of every possible kind of death you can think of and through sheer determination and player skill I have worked my way to a point where I can make all of those classes pay for all those face rolls I received. I didn't think the problem was with my class I can do damage just like he can, I didn't think it was with my gear ( hard work deserves just reward and if you took the time no matter how you did it to get the gear before I did then thats my fault) but because I know your better geared than me all that tells me is I got to work harder to get that kill and if you have the skill to kill a better geared player then welcome to what online gaming is all about. The better gear comes with the work and makes your job easier but a skilled player can adapt until he's better geared.

 

There is a catch though and I think this is were a lot of the problems stim from and why people cry. If you run into a skilled player that has taken the time to get geared now you have a nightmare on your hands, and this situation makes the less geared less skilled player feel very small, and then they hit the forums and the tears start to flow. Online gaming will never be fair because all gamers are not created equal, you can't key bind like I do, I can't react as fast as you can all these things factor into the game they make a huge difference. WHich brings me back to an earlier point The Grind. You have to work at getting better, you have to learn from every encounter how to counter everything. When you get beat don't look at what the other person had on the question is what did I do wrong and how do I get him next time.

 

During your learning curb you will get better, as you spend time getting better so will your gear and before you know it you will be enjoying your game a lot better. I don't win all the time I don't expect to but a lot of people do but the simple fact is there will always be that one guy that's better than you, that's the guy I'm constantly looking for, that's how you improve you game.

 

I know this was a long read and thank you for taking time out of your day to hear my thoughts. to those of you that can relate to what I'm trying to say keep on grinding and to those who will no doubt troll me the time your spending here crying could be better spent improving you skills. Have fun. I'll see ya in a Huttball!!!!

 

very well written. I agree, everyone wants things handed to them. MMORPGs have changed, the player base has changed. Its unfortunate. I wish things were different.

[Androgena]

WoW Happened to " real" gamers , you said it yourself

the cause of the number of complaining posts isn't due to a lack of said " gamers" but do a an increase of WoW carebears now gaming . those real gamers are here ( for how long no one can say) but theres another 1.2 million carebears aswell . the math says those real gamers will send 1.2 million carebears to the forum to whine and complain ALOT .

this was the death of SWG ( all those nerfs and changes to appease the carebears( and other games that make drastic changes so a Creature handler can go toe to toe with a commando or BountyHunter Like really if you want to PvP take a pvp class ffs ) and hope the " real gamers" stick around to actually playtest on the test server ( cause carebears will whine about that aswell) and make bug reports that are more then " Commando Killed me 1v1 !!! this shude nvar happen I R Dancer/Doctor"

Anyways you see what i'm saying Gamers still play games but Carebears pay the bills

[MoktokGrox]

Now....we are the toughest critics of anything new that comes out... Our standards and expectations are set to "blow me away with this game....like the first one did"... but in truth... It will take a whole new gaming technology era to give us what we had 6-8yrs ago..... I say this because I can... My first online multi-player game ever was Trade Wars.... ladies and gentlemen... no graphics...Telnet based...text based game with other players.. Yet your mind created the graphics....and it took skill with those commands to win a 6-9 month match.. Trade Wars is still out there.... hard to find..but people still play it.... Then came my MMO.....a whole new era and addiction....

Multi User Dungeons (MUDs) are still active. And yes, you need to use your telnet client and must imagine all graphics. I still play MUDs and enjoy it.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

I was referring to running down a STRAIGHT hallway. You know the ones I'm talking about. Not around a corner. Just a really long hallway with multiple cameras. Where ANYONE with LOS in front would have been able to see the Zombies waiting for them.

 

Anyone with working speakers would have heard the zombies in the first place!

 

[shdwklown]

WoW Happened to " real" gamers , you said it yourself

the cause of the number of complaining posts isn't due to a lack of said " gamers" but do a an increase of WoW carebears now gaming . those real gamers are here ( for how long no one can say) but theres another 1.2 million carebears aswell . the math says those real gamers will send 1.2 million carebears to the forum to whine and complain ALOT .

this was the death of SWG ( all those nerfs and changes to appease the carebears( and other games that make drastic changes so a Creature handler can go toe to toe with a commando or BountyHunter Like really if you want to PvP take a pvp class ffs ) and hope the " real gamers" stick around to actually playtest on the test server ( cause carebears will whine about that aswell) and make bug reports that are more then " Commando Killed me 1v1 !!! this shude nvar happen I R Dancer/Doctor"

Anyways you see what i'm saying Gamers still play games but Carebears pay the bills

 

That really isn't a carebear, as you describe it. That is more of a whiny entitled punk who doesn't know how to play any game, let alone this one. A carebear is simply someone who doesn't want to PVP, which doesn't necessarily make them any less of a gamer than you. Me personally, I enjoy PvP as much as the next guy but I will stick to the blue servers, thanks. I had my fill of getting trained with giants by bored SKs back in EQ, thankyouverymuch. Sure it was funny, but I have better things to do with my time.

 

Seriously though, "real" gamers are still around. The problem is those of us who cut our teeth on Meridian59, UO and EQ have grown up and have other priorities now. I have a teenage son who has been raised playing video games, and has a healthy respect for "oldschool" gaming. There are members of the younger generation who have been brought up in a similar fashion, the problem is there are probably twice as many who only know about the current gen of gaming. It is just a product of the technology as it sits today. When we were growing up and knocking around the Plane of Hate, it was with like minded people. Dial up was all the rage...go go 28.8 modems...zomg 56k how amazingly fast!!! *cough* EQ didn't have the press that WoW did, and full graphic 3 dimensional MMOs were in their infancy. Now, they are everywhere and it is "ok" to play them. For the most part. Unless you RP, apparently having any inkling of creativity in a game setting is still taboo.

[moowart]

What happened to real gamers? its simple.. they got beaten down by other gamers and wow style game design