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What happened to real Gamers?


Ensidious

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WoW was the first mmo to do mass advertising. They were on TV/Magazines/mainstream

 

They gained a bazillion subscribers, whereas before having a player base of 250k-300k was awesome (ie UO/DAOC/EQ etc).

 

WoW brought in the average joe into gaming, whereas before it was a more serious place for serious players.

 

THIS. THIS, SO MUCH THIS. I cannot QFT enough.

 

WoW brought in all the casual gamers who thus began looking at other games too, which leads to where we are now. A massive conglomeration of people that range from "How do shoot?" to "OMG I'M SURROUNDED BY NOOBS."

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WoW Happened to " real" gamers , you said it yourself

the cause of the number of complaining posts isn't due to a lack of said " gamers" but do a an increase of WoW carebears now gaming . those real gamers are here ( for how long no one can say) but theres another 1.2 million carebears aswell . the math says those real gamers will send 1.2 million carebears to the forum to whine and complain ALOT .

this was the death of SWG ( all those nerfs and changes to appease the carebears( and other games that make drastic changes so a Creature handler can go toe to toe with a commando or BountyHunter Like really if you want to PvP take a pvp class ffs ) and hope the " real gamers" stick around to actually playtest on the test server ( cause carebears will whine about that aswell) and make bug reports that are more then " Commando Killed me 1v1 !!! this shude nvar happen I R Dancer/Doctor"

Anyways you see what i'm saying Gamers still play games but Carebears pay the bills

 

Ok, I have to ask... WHERE does all the misinformation about the term "Carebear" come from?????

 

Carebears are simply anti-PvP. That is all.

Edited by Captain_Zone
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Ok, I have to ask... WHERE does all the misinformation about the term "Carebear" come from?????

 

Carebears are simply anti-PvP. That is all.

 

Carebears are roundly-shaped pink fluff balls with puffy legs and arms combined with a bear head with a small symbol on their belly.... *TWITCH*

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I'm not sure why hardcore PVP gamers are any more 'real' than anyone else. For all the moaning about casual players 'destroying' one game or another, I remember Everquest becoming unplayable because the hardcore gamers were shouting so loud that everything became about endgame and required guild-size groups with days to spare to get anything done. And then as soon as something new and shiny appeared to divert them, they migrated en masse to repeat the same behaviour in every game they deign to visit.

 

I'll be happy when they move on to the Next Big Thing and leave the rest of us in peace to actually enjoy the game.

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What happened to those gamers?

When did gaming become an entitlement?

 

Personally, I think those gamers are still here. They are what most people in the circles I'm in like to call hardcore or dedicated gamers. They keep coming back and have increased in number but not nearly as fast as other people have joined in the fun. There are a LOT more games now which spreads people out. What's more significant however, is that a whole lot more people found out how cool the games actually were and joined said gamers though they may not be the same type of person at all.

 

The estimates are all guesswork, but the numbers fit: it's like everyone's two younger brothers and younger sister got wind of what was going on and wanted in on the action. Nieces/nephews, friends - many who might somehow get close to these games find that these games are really cool and they've been made bigger and better with more to do! Not even half of this large influx of players are of the old crowd and we passed a critical mass a long time ago - now there are more new gamers than old. This is great! Except....

 

I believe games fall short in trying to please everybody. It seems the real tragedy is when a team compromises their vision to cater to player opinion (worse if they don't have a solid vision for their creation). We, as the community, don't really know what it is but the design team must set the goal of what the game will be in the end - what is the higher priority and where are they taking all of us?

 

The best thing we can do is give positive feedback when things are excellent and sit back and watch where they take us. It's not easy to trust, harder when things go a different way than would make you happy, but that is our responsibility if we want to have a positive impact on the course games are taking.

 

- - -

 

if you have the skill to kill a better geared player then welcome to what online gaming is all about

 

I agree, this is amazing. Anytime you can capture and facilitate this type of thing in a game it's like magic. The other side of it is that there is becoming a larger proportion of players who are not capable of overcoming the tight balance between skill and classes/equipment/et all in order to pull this off. MMO's are simply not dependent enough on player skill for that to be normal, and honestly they never really have been.

 

The Grind. You have to work at getting better, you have to learn from every encounter

 

This is both addicting, aggravating, rewarding, depressing, exciting, deflating, and challenging. It used to be the standard deviating factor in player vs player encounters. No longer. I feel all sorts of things about this personally. My best memories are from contexts where this ruled. At the same time, I'm glad to not have to do it. Times change and I think many of the changes in this area are quite beneficial. If that means we can play with millions of people instead of thousands, that's reason enough.

 

This game does still have a grind - it starts when you hit level 50. Every MMO I've played does in some form. Perhaps an important question is what kind of grind is best for today. Personally, I think that one of the better grinds was that present in getting gear in EQ2, and while there are other grinding aspects not to mimic, in gear it was superior to most. Actually, it had all the basics done best - the things that players should never have to think about but will show up in their complaints if misunderstood. It's a great case study.

 

There will always be some sort of tiering system and scarcity always increases value and thus will be perhaps the biggest motivator. You don't want to feel you're at work to play the game. Repeated daily quests somewhat fail here. But diligence and effort will always be successful. What to do?

 

Challenge is probably the biggest key. Having something for everything perhaps leaves us without enough for the elite or the dedicated. My conclusion would be to create content for everybody... and then create content that most people will never see. Give them every opportunity for sure, the separating factor should only be that they lack the skill or persistence (or friends) to achieve it.

 

Mostly, we need to understand that everyone is different. You can't put a person in a box, no matter how many people enjoy the same thing. Perhaps this kind of understanding is what we've been lacking.

 

To the old guard: new gamers, easy games, and genre neutrality are the wave we're riding and they seem to be here to stay. Accept it, embrace them, make many of them them become like you, and find the tallest peaks to climb.

 

To visionaries and game makers: the old gamers, the dedicated, the hardcore want more challenge and an environment to achieve victory in these. Everest was topped in the 2nd millenium. We need more, we need new, and we need to know that not everyone will be able to get there.

 

///

Edited by Parasi
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I'm not sure why hardcore PVP gamers are any more 'real' than anyone else. For all the moaning about casual players 'destroying' one game or another, I remember Everquest becoming unplayable because the hardcore gamers were shouting so loud that everything became about endgame and required guild-size groups with days to spare to get anything done. And then as soon as something new and shiny appeared to divert them, they migrated en masse to repeat the same behaviour in every game they deign to visit.

 

I'll be happy when they move on to the Next Big Thing and leave the rest of us in peace to actually enjoy the game.

 

Yes, but EQ is still around, while most other games that catered to the average player have died off or are in the process of dying off.

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THIS. THIS, SO MUCH THIS. I cannot QFT enough.

 

WoW brought in all the casual gamers who thus began looking at other games too, which leads to where we are now. A massive conglomeration of people that range from "How do shoot?" to "OMG I'M SURROUNDED BY NOOBS."

 

QFT.

 

The unwashed masses will be the death of us yet.

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Well, when you ask what happened to Real Gamers...I guess my excuse is I grew up, and started a career, which kinda really puts the kabosh on my gaming, so I have to take it when I can amidst everything else that comes with being an Adult.
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QFT.

 

The unwashed masses will be the death of us yet.

 

Hilarious.

 

There are more of us than of you. You will be assimilated.

 

Also, this whole idea that playing a stupid computer game makes you somehow "hardcore" makes me laugh so hard I fart.

 

Waaaahahahahahahha *POOOOOT!*

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Hilarious.

 

There are more of us than of you. You will be assimilated.

 

Also, this whole idea that playing a stupid computer game makes you somehow "hardcore" makes me laugh so hard I fart.

 

Waaaahahahahahahha *POOOOOT!*

 

I've never seen that mentality. The term "hardcore" for games is meant to designate how much you play and how seriously you take the game. A hardcore gamer in WoW, for instance, could be someone who PvPs consistently and competitively. Or could be someone who raids with their guild on a nightly basis and strives to be the best on their server. They're basically the overachievers of the gaming community imo. xD That doesn't mean they consider themselves to be "hardcore" as in "cool".

 

Now, do you get people who think being good at a game somehow makes them cool? Probably. I've just never seen this mentality in anyone other than idiots who aren't actually good at the game.

 

I'd also like to point out that while the casual gamer has numbers over us "hardcore gamers", we're the ones that will consistently support a game and be around for a long long time. Casual gamers are flighty and don't always stick around after they get roflstomped ten times in twenty minutes.

Edited by Brosephiine
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Gaming is a pastime, a hobby,and takes effort to be good at it, like a lot of other endeavors in life.

 

IMHO you don't do something unless you plan to attempt to be the best at it. Work, sports, anything, and that includes gaming.

 

If that makes me a jerk or a type A personality or makes you feel uncomfortable, oh well.

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Gaming is a pastime, a hobby,and takes effort to be good at it, like a lot of other endeavors in life.

 

IMHO you don't do something unless you plan to attempt to be the best at it. Work, sports, anything, and that includes gaming.

 

If that makes me a jerk or a type A personality or makes you feel uncomfortable, oh well.

 

So me playing games purely because it's fun and enjoyable and not to be "the very best, like no ever was" puts us at natural odds, like some sort of strange T-Rex/Triceratops.

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Anyone with working speakers would have heard the zombies in the first place!

 

:D

 

Did you ever play the original Resident Evil on Playstation? Before the advent of the PS1 or the PS2 for that matter. And NOT the Director's Cut. Just good ol' Resident Evil. The Zombies in that were completely silent until they started their attacks. I stand by my previous statement: Survival Horror games are extremely overrated.

 

Now, the TRUE TEST of the Hardcore Gamer is "Demons Souls" on PS3. If you can make it past the first Castle after dying the first time, then you are officially HARDCORE. If you can actually beat the entire game, you are EXTREMELY HARDCORE, imo.

Edited by Captain_Zone
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Gaming is a pastime, a hobby,and takes effort to be good at it, like a lot of other endeavors in life.

 

IMHO you don't do something unless you plan to attempt to be the best at it. Work, sports, anything, and that includes gaming.

 

If that makes me a jerk or a type A personality or makes you feel uncomfortable, oh well.

 

Dang. I rolled my eyes so hard one came out and the cat batted it under the sofa.

 

I hate when that happens.:(

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Did you ever play the original Resident Evil on Playstation? Before the advent of the PS1 or the PS2 for that matter. And NOT the Director's Cut. Just good ol' Resident Evil. The Zombies in that were completely silent until they started their attacks. I stand by my previous statement: Survival Horror games are extremely overrated.

 

Now, the TRUE TEST of the Hardcore Gamer is "Demons Souls" on PS3. If you can make it past the first Castle after dying the first time, then you are officially HARDCORE. If you can actually beat the entire game, you are EXTREMELY HARDCORE, imo.

 

Oh hell no, Demon Souls is a freaking gamer crusher. If anyone completes that game, you are Hardcore. Do it without dying less than 10 times, you are a Legend.

 

Without dying once?

 

God of all Gamers. No one will deny you your wish. You will be allowed cutsies at any game launch. That is the status of the God.

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Oh hell no, Demon Souls is a freaking gamer crusher. If anyone completes that game, you are Hardcore. Do it without dying less than 10 times, you are a Legend.

 

Without dying once?

 

God of all Gamers. No one will deny you your wish. You will be allowed cutsies at any game launch. That is the status of the God.

 

Not quite a Legend here. I died about 40 or 50 times during my playthrough. It is, quite possibly, the most sadistic videogame ever invented.... with maybe the exception of the Friday the 13th game back in the day. :p

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Not quite a Legend here. I died about 40 or 50 times during my playthrough. It is, quite possibly, the most sadistic videogame ever invented.... with maybe the exception of the Friday the 13th game back in the day. :p

 

Oh hell I played that game. Jason was a massive d-bag to kill. Never saved a single camper.

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The tools changed the people and not the people the tools.

 

Vanilla had raid´s, dungeons, open pvp and later BG´s. You played those things for fun, but you wanted to achive something . To achive something was more a personal goal or the goal on your server, but it was not a global thing - competition for most players.

 

You had no clue about dps too high / low, just a dead encounter was a way of understanding your performance. When we did raid at vanilla no dps meters were around, so the raid won together or lost together - single performance was not measurable and because of this not important.

This created a big "we" feeling and thats what an MMO is all about. The "I" feeling is typical for shooters like CS, BF where you see your performance in kills, deaths etc. at the tab.

 

PvP was also done for fun, even with the mega grind for rank 14 - people still did it for fun, many people stopped at rank 12 or 13 and did not complain and accepted it. In the early days the demands were much smaller, if you couldnt beat something it was ok and you tried again next week.

 

Today meters pretend to give a performance check, the WWW does indicate that every encounter is doable and the forums are a breeding ground for "checks". A class has something I dont have, unfair! The thing is, thats exactly how it should be. There will be classes that do more dps, more healing etc. thats why the RPG element is in - but people just see the numbers of 1 and want the same so that they dont get blamed anymore in their raid for low dps...

 

The www cant be stopped anymore, YT & co. are there but the tools like LFG, DPS meter can be stopped and this would help a little bit and bring back the "we".

Edited by RachelAnne
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The tools changed the people and not the people the tools.

 

Vanilla had raid´s, dungeons, open pvp and later BG´s. You played those things for fun, but you wanted to achive something . To achive something was more a personal goal or the goal on your server, but it was not a global thing - competition for most players.

 

You had no clue about dps too high / low, just a dead encounter was a way of understanding your performance. When we did raid at vanilla no dps meters were around, so the raid won together or lost together - single performance was not measurable and because of this not important.

This created a big "we" feeling and thats what an MMO is all about. The "I" feeling is typical for shooters like CS, BF where you see your performance in kills, deaths etc. at the tab.

 

PvP was also done for fun, even with the mega grind for rank 14 - people still did it for fun, many people stopped at rank 12 or 13 and did not complain and accepted it. In the early days the demands were much smaller, if you couldnt beat something it was ok and you tried again next week.

 

Today meters pretend to give a performance check, the WWW does indicate that every encounter is doable and the forums are a breeding ground for "checks". A class has something I dont have, unfair! The thing is, thats exactly how it should be. There will be classes that do more dps, more healing etc. thats why the RPG element is in - but people just see the numbers of 1 and want the same so that they dont get blamed anymore in their raid for low dps...

 

The www cant be stopped anymore, YT & co. are there but the tools like LFG, DPS meter can be stopped and this would help a little bit and bring back the "we".

 

This post is dead bang on.

 

I can't tell you how many times I was turned off to raiding over some ******* paladin claiming he did more DPS on his level 67 warrior, or how the healer sucked because they couldn't heal through his zerg pull. The game stopped being about 'we' and more about 'me'.

 

Worse, these unwashed masses were so self centered they would decide to go afk for 30 minutes during a raid to walk the dog, or maybe show up late without the proper consumables and bum them off everyone else.

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I played my first video game in 1977-- Pong. I used to play that stupid game until 1am for hours, and then got up to play it again.

 

Pong. Black and White Pong on a console that didn't play anything else.

 

As time went on, so did my gaming. When VGA 256 color came out I nearly died. I played them all from Wasteland, to Castle Wolfenstein, to Intellivision and Atari, to colecovision. They were all hard, difficult to master and impossibly shallow but incredibly addictive.

 

In 2000 I started playing my first MMO's , and then in 2003 I played SWG for the first time. It took months to unlock a jedi, more months just to level it up. If you think grinding now is hard, try levelling up a pre-NGE jedi. Over those years until today, 2012, I built a gaming guild called Clan of the Black Lotus. As the years changed so did the guild. The old hardcore gamers left to marry, have kids, change jobs. Some passed away. Some just faded away. But as time progressed I saw the players change. They became more obsessed with gear rather than server influence. claimed everyone was hacking or cheating when they died in PVP, cared little about killing the enemy, only about getting the next piece of purple gear.

 

It saddened me and I made the mistake of trying to teach them the value of hard work and putting in your dues. I tried to show them that you pick a side and fight for it, not play both sides of the faction fence and then complain about which class was OP. Raiding had become the focus of guild efforts, not a pleasant pastime for a few hours of gaming attention.

 

It had become about loot and the easy way, not about teamwork and reputation.

 

Many rebelled and left for other guilds and games that were easier and supported their wayward ways. I forced many of them out and now only the last few older diehards are left. We still play the same way, but I lament the way of things and the state of gaming these days. Now I play for a few hours then log off to do something else. Developers focus on graphics and content rather than gameplay and it shows-- 3 months into a game and people are asking when the game will go F2P or to merge servers due to low populations.

 

And yet, me a few left in my guild who still play the old way, and obviously the OP of this thread, still remember the late nights with games like Pong with no graphics or content and kept our attention all night long.

 

We dream of days past, swept away by the sands of time and change, and hope that one day a developer will build a game to cater to the hardcore gamer.

 

Here's to hope.

 

Awwweee thats sad to read ....

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Did you ever play the original Resident Evil on Playstation? Before the advent of the PS1 or the PS2 for that matter. And NOT the Director's Cut. Just good ol' Resident Evil. The Zombies in that were completely silent until they started their attacks. I stand by my previous statement: Survival Horror games are extremely overrated.

 

This is what I'm talking about. Games are supposed to be challenging. Thanks to MMOs opening games up for anyone and everyone, people want the easy, relaxing, lalalala style of gaming. That's why when anyone I meet on any MMO calls themselves a gamer I laugh in their pixelated face. To me that's like an ROTC cadet calling himself a soldier. Two completely different things.

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This post is dead bang on.

 

I can't tell you how many times I was turned off to raiding over some ******* paladin claiming he did more DPS on his level 67 warrior, or how the healer sucked because they couldn't heal through his zerg pull. The game stopped being about 'we' and more about 'me'.

 

Worse, these unwashed masses were so self centered they would decide to go afk for 30 minutes during a raid to walk the dog, or maybe show up late without the proper consumables and bum them off everyone else.

 

I was main tank healer for my guild's raid in WoW only a few months back. Got 6/8 normal and couldn't get past that because we had so many people coming in late constantly or going afk, etc. I can't tell you the number of times our top dps would stop and say, "Guys I have to let the dogs out, I'll brb." Finally, one of our officers (who was beneath me in terms of hierarchy in the guild -- I was basically second in command) left a lengthy message on the guild site after we missed a day of raiding because people didn't show up, complaining about how we're never going to get anything done because people are playing other games (myself and the other officers play League of Legends regularly and I was about to get into SWTOR too.) We pointed out the fact that he'd repeatedly said he'd be playing Diablo 3 more than WoW when it came out and he shot back with, "Well fine, I quit!" Next day, more of our dps was gone without a word and the guild quickly fell apart.

 

All because some twit threw a hissy fit when people had IRL crap to attend to and couldn't make it to raid. We cleared the people who couldn't make it, they had legit stuff to take care of and were normally there on time and ready to go. No reason to get butthurt over one missed day. 0.o

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I was main tank healer for my guild's raid in WoW only a few months back. Got 6/8 normal and couldn't get past that because we had so many people coming in late constantly or going afk, etc. I can't tell you the number of times our top dps would stop and say, "Guys I have to let the dogs out, I'll brb." Finally, one of our officers (who was beneath me in terms of hierarchy in the guild -- I was basically second in command) left a lengthy message on the guild site after we missed a day of raiding because people didn't show up, complaining about how we're never going to get anything done because people are playing other games (myself and the other officers play League of Legends regularly and I was about to get into SWTOR too.) We pointed out the fact that he'd repeatedly said he'd be playing Diablo 3 more than WoW when it came out and he shot back with, "Well fine, I quit!" Next day, more of our dps was gone without a word and the guild quickly fell apart.

 

All because some twit threw a hissy fit when people had IRL crap to attend to and couldn't make it to raid. We cleared the people who couldn't make it, they had legit stuff to take care of and were normally there on time and ready to go. No reason to get butthurt over one missed day. 0.o

 

 

People need to take care of personal stuff on their own time, not others people's time as well.

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