is this right? QQ about sith operatives

[Vudu]

I really don't understand all of this. NONE of you can just pop some sort of sprint or pull yourselves away, or push the operative/scoundrel away, and just... walk away? It's not like we have any gap closers.

 

I think the reason for it is many times, people never get a chance to use those moves before they're dead.

 

But, maybe I'm playing against operatives that use hack tools?

Edited April 11, 2012 by Vudu

[Xaearth]

Maybe it's just me, maybe it's the ops. I don't know. I do pretty good on shadow against everyone but operatives - whether I win or lose. Operatives, good ones, on the other hand, typically will only let me get a couple of attacks off before they kill me. Then, they heal the 5K damage I did and move on ...

 

Quit trying to fight on an Operative/Scoundrel's terms.

 

When one opens on you, don't think "Got to fight back":

1) Survive

2) Get outside of 10m

3) Reassess the situation

4) Counterattack

 

There's a fair chance that the Operative/Scoundrel will vanish when it comes to step 3.

Congratulations, you just single handedly removed his most powerful offensive and defensive cooldown from play for the next 2 minutes.

Now if you can use a med pack and save your defensive cooldowns until just as your resolve empties, you're home free. Bonus points if you knock him out of stealth with a DoT or AoE.

 

If the Operative/Scoundrel doesn't vanish, assuming he isn't baiting you, you've already won by simply not dying and keeping the Operative/Scoundrel combat locked (= no stealth without vanish).

[Vudu]

Quit trying to fight on an Operative/Scoundrel's terms.

 

When one opens on you, don't think "Got to fight back":

1) Survive

2) Get outside of 10m

3) Reassess the situation

4) Counterattack

 

There's a fair chance that the Operative/Scoundrel will vanish when it comes to step 3.

Congratulations, you just single handedly removed his most powerful offensive and defensive cooldown from play for the next 2 minutes.

Now if you can use a med pack and save your defensive cooldowns until just as your resolve empties, you're home free. Bonus points if you knock him out of stealth with a DoT or AoE.

 

If the Operative/Scoundrel doesn't vanish, assuming he isn't baiting you, you've already won by simply not dying and keeping the Operative/Scoundrel combat locked (= no stealth without vanish).

 

Yeah, I've seriously considered just running from them to reset the fight, if I get a chance to run. The only problem is, I'm resetting the fight at half health. And they are more than likely stealthed, again and ready for the second round of openers.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Vudu

[Powderhorn]

I play on a small server, and am on the top end PvP guild on that server. We have three scoundrels, and we all love working together. Yes, any two of us can, as a pair, open up on some poor sod and have them at 0% before they can do so much as pop a med back. And it's great. But, if it's just one of us, odds are that person just has no gear, or no clue, and we'll be on vent laughing our rear ends off about it. (Killing those people is also great.)

 

Now, if we're on our own, we probably each have our own way of doing things, but I myself just try to find a guy that seems a bit skittish, and open up on him. It's funny to watch their player's frenetic motions as I mentally picture the kid on the other end of the screen pooping himself. Or I'll go after people at <75% or less.

 

If I'm stuck in combat for more than 7s, odds are I've already lost the engagement, either because the person will have some great survivability tools, great escaping tools, or I've already drawn far too much attention to myself. If I can't restealth, I'm dead, plain and simply. I saw one comment early on in this thread that said my damage needed to be halved. I got a good laugh out of that one. Thanks!

 

Also, as a note: The longer you keep a scoundrel "in combat", the higher your survival rate will be.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Powderhorn

[Skyrill]

the op is ttally right and most people know it

 

op, don't waste your time on this forum, thy'll tell you to l2p and will never admit that there might a problem with some imbalanced classes.

just try to roll another class or simply leave that poorly done game that will go f2p in 1 year.

[wwkingms]

You don't need to defend against an Operative/Scoundrel.

 

You just need to survive and get out of 10m, then laugh at him.

 

Kiting Operative/Scoundrels as a Sorc/Sage is child's play.

 

is this before or after they used their instant ranged aoe mezz to close the distance?

[wwkingms]

Maybe it's just me, maybe it's the ops. I don't know. I do pretty good on shadow against everyone but operatives - whether I win or lose. Operatives, good ones, on the other hand, typically will only let me get a couple of attacks off before they kill me. Then, they heal the 5K damage I did and move on ...

 

Seriously, say I'm bad all you want. It doesn't bother me. Being bad has nothing to do with losing 75% of my health before I can even start to fight back, pop meds, relics, etc.. run ...

 

No other class can kill as effectively, without fear of losing, than a well played operative.

 

The toon that I use to fight against operatives best is gunslinger. Because the burst damage and range really helps. Still, if I recently used any defenses (hunker down, pulse, dodge) that dps doesn't help. The operative will just heal any damage I do while already dishing out at least as much if not more than I can do in the same time.

 

dont bother

 

operatives think theyre UP still..

 

wether im on my light armor sorc or my heavy armor jugg with 49% dmg reduction..

 

operatives do way too much burst to people whom cant even fight back

 

but hey they probably played ambush rogues in vanilla wow, or mutilate rogues in wotlk

 

they want easy kills with no one fighting back

Edited April 11, 2012 by wwkingms

[Powderhorn]

Listen, you have three choices: Either you were hit with a shoot first to knock down for 1.5 & had a 4s dirty kick, you got two shoot firsts (by the scoundrel or operative blowing a vanish on 2 min cooldown), and a dirty kick, for a total of 7s stun, OR the scoundrel does a shoot first and then throws the flashbang at you. Your resolve bar is going to fill up in any of those situations, making further use of stuns and CCs impossible (roots are, I'll grant you, still viable)

 

In the end, you have to take into account game mechanics. You can't say, "OMG, LOOK AT ALL THESE CC'S THEY HAVE, NERF NAO!!!" without looking at how each one of these stuns works against using the others.

 

Do you even know how this class works?

[Fallenturtle]

As an operative, I rather laugh at people's cry's of "OMG OPS DO TONS OF DAMAGE QQ"

 

Every patch since 1.1.1 has nerfed us without giving us something in return, either in utility, or survivability or sustained dps. We HAVE to either get you down low in 7 seconds, or run away. Why? Because outside of stealth and our "burst" we have little else to defend ourselves in comparison to every other class in the game. I even had a bm geared sorc laugh at me today, and I have full bm gear on myself.. he claimed the damage I did tickled because even after stunlocking him for 5.5 seconds and interrupting one of his two heals, I wasn't able to do anything more.

 

We do not have any more stuns/mezzes than anyone else in the game. Every class has AT LEAST one 4 second stun or, in the case of the overly buffed marauders in 1.2, able to survive almost all attack backs and still rip the person apart.

 

everything that all the smugs/ops are saying are true. we only have a 5.5 second timer on our "stun locking" unlike a lot of the other classes who have a 6.5 or longer stunlock time. This is not including roots because we only have a 2 second one, where as every other root is double that time.

 

The main crying is because we have stealth and basically vulture people who are less geared, or have low health.

[SableShadow]

Meh. Forgeddabowdit. 1.2 drops in a couple days, give it another go ... and stop assuming peeps telling you the counters are blowing smoke up your but. Edited April 11, 2012 by SableShadow

[Agemnon]

just done a wz, civil war - got killed by a sith operative without even managing to fire back or anything. reason, he killed me b4 and i managed to escape, throw flash nade, but he still caught me and killed, didnt have much of a chance as in the first few secs of combat he took nearly 75% of my health away

 

now when i ressed i went bk to the turret i was gaurding, he came out of vanish, completly stunned me for like 10 secs, and during those 10 secs he killed me without me getting any kind of shot against him

 

im asking is this fair??? - one of the reasons i quit wow was becasue the rogues in that game were just to powerful at pvp, and it looks like the sith operative is going the same way

 

why should any class be allowed to have that many stuns available to them!!

how should any class be allowed to be able to vanish for that amount of time!!! - fyi, sith vanish from there spawn point in civil war and can run to what would be the right hand turret for them without losing vanish

 

Rogues may be very powerful in PvP, but they are crap for raiding. It's called balance, if something is awesome for PvP then it will be bad in raiding and heroics to make up for it. Also, the cool down on vanish is way, way too long even when talented.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Agemnon

[Agemnon]

I'm sure you used your trinket for Cheap Shot in WoW.

 

Lol I remember a pally using a trinket after I sapped him!

[killerwookie]

1. Pin Down

Sever Tendon has a [50 / 100]% chance to immobilize the target for 2 seconds.

 

2. Jarring Strike

Hidden Strike has a [50 / 100]% chance to knock the target flat on its face for 1.5 seconds.

 

3. Sleep Dart

Puts the target to sleep for 60 seconds

 

4. Flash Bang

Detonates a flash bang that blinds up to 5 targets within 5 meters for 8 seconds

 

5. Debilitate

Deals 312 - 344 energy damage and stuns the target for 4 seconds.

 

OK, lets look at this logically:

 

1. Pin Down/ Sever Tendon: Is a root/slow not a stun. He can still use skills, even as a melee - either rifle, force choke, saber throw or force leap/pull.

 

2. Jarring strike/ Hidden strike: Can only be used from stealth and fills 4/5 of the Resolve bar. Knocks down for 1.5 secs.

 

3. Sleep Dart: Can only be used from stealth and fills the resolve bar. Breaks on damage.

 

4. Flash bang: Fills the resolve bar. Breaks on damage.

 

5. Debilitate: Stun locks for 4 secs. Fills 4/5 of the resolve bar.

 

In other words, at best, operatives have 2 stuns b4 waiting for the resolve bar to empty.

 

Most operatives will use hidden strike (1.5 sec stun), followed by lacerate/backstab (both dps skills), followed by debilitate (4 sec stun)......then ur resolve is full....no more stuns......thats a total of 5.5 sec stun, which is pretty much in line with what every other class can do.

Edited April 11, 2012 by killerwookie

[namelless]

Dps Ops are terrible. People think they're OP because they have good gear/biochem and pop adrenals/relics for when they open.That makes them OP for 30seconds at most, and then they're back to being subpar for 3 minutes.

 

Chances are if you were killed by an Op you were either a) already on 60% hp or lower or b) you were being attacked by a ranged class like a sniper at the same time.

 

They're also probably the easiest class in the game to escape, most classes can wait out a 4 second stun and then use a gap closer to get you back into range, Ops can't do that and instead CC break the stun and then get hit with an 8 second disorient.

 

Before anyone accuses me of bias, i play a sawbones, not a scrapper scoundrel.

Edited April 11, 2012 by namelless

[Xaearth]

is this before or after they used their instant ranged aoe mezz to close the distance?

 

Before.

After.

It doesn't really matter when it only has a range of 10m and you're safely outside of it.

[Rikeryo]

I'm sure you used your trinket for Cheap Shot in WoW.

 

yeah :3

[Mortix]

so it's not like we always beat everyone 1on1,the problem is we have the "potential" to do so....and then,really good players that play OP will probably win 1on1..no ****.

 

biggest pile of crap i've read here so far must be the 5k heal ops do. if you let them throw that >2sec cast you really are a bad player.

 

let me write down some of the abilities sorc have:

static shield:insanely strong shield that lasts 30 sec...oh and a blind that goes off once your shield is down.

electrocute:4 sec 30yard stun

force slow:30 yard range 6s 50% slow

force sprint:150% speed boost

Whirlwind (with haunted dreams): mezz that has a 2sec stun if it's broken early

jolt:interrupt with 30 yard range (remember that 5k heal from OP)

Extrication: oh look,you can pull in a friend to help you fight the OP

heals: really?

purge:no ****

 

so much ability and OPs are op...

[wessik]

just done a wz, civil war - got killed by a sith operative without even managing to fire back or anything. reason, he killed me b4 and i managed to escape, throw flash nade, but he still caught me and killed, didnt have much of a chance as in the first few secs of combat he took nearly 75% of my health away

 

now when i ressed i went bk to the turret i was gaurding, he came out of vanish, completly stunned me for like 10 secs, and during those 10 secs he killed me without me getting any kind of shot against him

 

im asking is this fair??? - one of the reasons i quit wow was becasue the rogues in that game were just to powerful at pvp, and it looks like the sith operative is going the same way

 

why should any class be allowed to have that many stuns available to them!!

how should any class be allowed to be able to vanish for that amount of time!!! - fyi, sith vanish from there spawn point in civil war and can run to what would be the right hand turret for them without losing vanish

 

they will be fixed in 20 hours!

[Bocherel]

1. Pin Down

Sever Tendon has a [50 / 100]% chance to immobilize the target for 2 seconds.

 

2. Jarring Strike

Hidden Strike has a [50 / 100]% chance to knock the target flat on its face for 1.5 seconds.

 

3. Sleep Dart

Puts the target to sleep for 60 seconds

 

4. Flash Bang

Detonates a flash bang that blinds up to 5 targets within 5 meters for 8 seconds

 

5. Debilitate

Deals 312 - 344 energy damage and stuns the target for 4 seconds.

 

Yup, that's 2 stun.

[GrandMike]

As soon as i saw thread name i knew it would be hilarious, but never expected it to be this funny.

 

Thank you OP for a good laugh, good one

[Ich_Bin]

Terribly misinformed QQ threads like this are exactly what's wrong with the PvP community in this game.

 

 

Hint: Ever wondered why DPS-Operative is the least played class by a wide margin? That's right! It's because they are so overpowered.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Digtahk]

Operatives have 3 stuns they can use in any combat situation as hidden strike has no CD, their cloaking screen is effectively a stun because it enables them to use it for a second time. Resolve means they have to wait a couple GCDs in stealth or more likely fight a couple before cloaking but it is easy enough to pull off. The problem most people have is they spam the wrong ability when they get attacked which because of the ridiculous animation attached to hidden strike turns the 1.5 second stun into a 3-4 seconds one. If you spam any ability that requires facing your opponent he will get the 4s stun off before you. If you spam you healing potion for example however you can usually get it off between stuns assuming they go for hidden strike-backstab-debilitate opener.

 

On my alt marauder for example I generally go with force camo as the stun usually fires at the same time you invis so you can ride the stun out in safety, then get on with the srs business of returning them to the respawn point.

[Ich_Bin]

Operatives have 3 stuns they can use in any combat situation as hidden strike has no CD, their cloaking screen is effectively a stun because it enables them to use it for a second time.

 

Stopped reading right there. Terrible misinformation once again.

First of all if what you were saying WAS correct, Operatives would still only have 2 stuns: Debilitate and Hidden Strike.

 

BUT: How can you say that Cloaking Screen is available "in any combat situation"?

Do you know what the cooldown on that ability is? 3 (2) minutes.

Do you know how long the Hidden Strike "stun" lasts? 1.5 seconds.

 

 

My Assassin can stun you longer (one of the stuns even has 30m range), while doing more damage on you and having more interrupt/CC abilities and better survivability on top of that.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[JediDuckling]

just done a wz, civil war - got killed by a sith operative without even managing to fire back or anything. reason, he killed me b4 and i managed to escape, throw flash nade, but he still caught me and killed, didnt have much of a chance as in the first few secs of combat he took nearly 75% of my health away

 

now when i ressed i went bk to the turret i was gaurding, he came out of vanish, completly stunned me for like 10 secs, and during those 10 secs he killed me without me getting any kind of shot against him

 

im asking is this fair??? - one of the reasons i quit wow was becasue the rogues in that game were just to powerful at pvp, and it looks like the sith operative is going the same way

 

why should any class be allowed to have that many stuns available to them!!

how should any class be allowed to be able to vanish for that amount of time!!! - fyi, sith vanish from there spawn point in civil war and can run to what would be the right hand turret for them without losing vanish

 

a full BM geared operative can still kill heavys in under the time the 1.5 second knockdown wears off.

 

i have 5k armor nearly 18k health and 670 expertise and full BM operatives can nearly 1 shot me.

my commando healer is dead before the 1.5 seconds knockdown is over.

 

even after the operative nerf they are still stupidly stupidly overpowerd, it lituraly feels like the players is hacking but they are not. its how stupidly broken operatives are still.they need a major looking into and nerfing badly.

[JediDuckling]

5 stun abilities is not that much.

 

thats a hell of alot for saying they have AOE stuns as well.