Who here is completely satisfied with the Light/Dark Side Allignment system?

[Bluerodian]

This.

 

I am also annoyed by the whole red eyes thing, it is complete non-canon, no Sith get Red Eyes, they only ever have sickly yellow ones.

 

I've noticed this as well. In EPIII, Anakin had the yellow eyes going only when he was fully entrenched in the dark side, but when he was calmer or more focused on straight up battle, his eyes were quite normal.

 

I never saw his eyes go red.

[Dezzi]

I'm not satisfied at all. In fact, I'm completely dissatisfied with the alignment system.

 

Like just about everything else in this game, alignment is inconsequential--there are no consequences tied to the system at all. The system encourages min-maxing, again with no consequences (instead of light artifacts you use dark ones). Then of course there are the canon issues brought up elsewhere in the thread; shouldn't the eyes be "outside" heterochromatic yellow and red?

 

It's just another shallow feature added to the game so they could say "look what we have!" It's a disappointment.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Dezzi

[Shingara]

First off, you max out light/dark waaay too quickly. Chances are your Allignment will be maxed out on one side by the time you complete your story but I guess that isn't such a big deal seeing as how there are like no rewards for having a maxed out a allignment late game.

 

You can buy....... Relics that are outclassed by even centurian relics, boots and gloves but no chest to match and no augment slots (soon to be a big deal), an unempressive vehicle, and uh.... A mini pet?

 

Just curious to see how many of you actually like the current system.

 

I like the current system, to much buffing and skills, items etc tied to light or dark can and would create 'you must have' stances. so as it stands with it being cosmetic mainly for darkside and a by product of how you play your char with some relics tied to light or dark i think its fine.

 

Obviously there are things they could do with specific class's with different effects to spell animations dependant on rank but that is the most i would like to see personaly.

[iDubstep]

I think there should be some opportunity for Light versus Dark. It would be fun to team up with your moral equals.

[Smallways]

Why must there be a reward associated with something in order for it to have value. Of course it's not going to be game changing. It is something to add another dimension to the identity of your character. I don't need (and really do not want) something if I became full darkside. I don't play my character with such absolutism, and don't want to be encouraged to act otherwise.

[Lokai]

I have many problems with it.

 

A. Force powers are not alignment neutral magic spells.

Force lightning is using the force to directly cause pain, torment, and death to another person. This is clearly darkside. One should not be able use force lightning, force choke, and similar powers and still be light side. Its clearly shown in the movies and the EU that even acting aggressively or selfishly can bring a force sensitive to the darkside. So how could someone possibly be considered a light sider while still using force lightning to torture and kill people or using force choke to strangle someone to death? Ridiculous.

 

B. Non- force sensitives should not be affected by force alignment at all.

This is what I posted in another thread about the subject of dark side corruption.

 

"Its really stupid.

 

Its not even common among dark side users in canon. Ancient Sith? None that I can think of except for Naga Sadow maybe and he was just kind of pale. Darth Bane? No. Darth Tyrannus? No. Darth Maul? No. Darth Ruin? No. Darth Krayt? Just some paleness and eye discoloration. Darth Talon? No. Galen Marek? No.

 

Outside of Bioware characters and Darth Sidious the only darkside users who displayed extensive corruption (other than eye discoloration) that I can think of off the top of my head were King Ommin (who was a powerful sorcerer) and Darth Plagueis (also a powerful sorcerer). And even Sidious's corruption was a special case because it was exacerbated by getting hit in the face by his own lightning via Mace Windu. Darth Andeddu, Darth Sion, and Darth Nihilus were also special cases.

 

Only the most extreme dark side sorcerers should display Sith corruption. Not every single person who commits a few violent acts, even those who aren't even force sensitive. Its just really really stupid imo."

 

Regular joes murder people and lie and cheat and steal all the time in the star wars. It doesn't make them dark siders. Non force classes should have a renegade/paragon alignment system and should be unaffected by force alighnment.

 

just wanted to comment on this... and say i completely disagree with you and here is why. Master Mace Windu used FORCE CRUSH with out batting an eyebrow, and without causing any ill effect on himself. Further more you also have kyle katarn who, was quite capable of using darkside powers and again not showing any signs of it effecting him in grand scheme of things.

 

Basically force powers are not based on " good " or " evil " acts but rather, passion behind that power and purpose of how its being used. Using force lightning to protect your friends from certain harm is not inherently evil in any way, and using your rage to fight back your enemy and driving yourself with passion is NOT evil in any way!

 

Reason that many JEDI! fall to the darkside is actually because they are machines... and what i mean by that is, the jedi code says " is no emotion" basically abolish emotion. By doing so they do not experience emotion, and thus they do not know how to deal with it when the time comes. So in a situation where suddenly overwhelmed with emotion, they lose themselves in it and fall to the darkside. IF someone is trained in how to deal with there emotions, to embrace them, and use them then they are going to be far more unlikly to lose themselves in such a situation.

 

Thus i disagree with alignment determining dark and lightside powers what so ever, since a jedi who is evil, and abuses his power is STILL practicing his jedi tenants is still going to be using lightside powers 9/10. While a darkside user who is " good " ie Starkiller(yes yes go ahead and whine) was still very passionate and used his rage and fury to fuel his powers, and in end he STILL was a lightside character even if he used darkside powers!

 

so at end of the day good and evil are just perceptions of individual, for what you see as good i may see as evil, and vice versa... is why i don't like concept of dark and light side... to me is only the force... and it is how individual uses it that dictates what is dark and light.

[Rayla_Felana]

just wanted to comment on this... and say i completely disagree with you and here is why. Master Mace Windu used FORCE CRUSH with out batting an eyebrow, and without causing any ill effect on himself. Further more you also have kyle katarn who, was quite capable of using darkside powers and again not showing any signs of it effecting him in grand scheme of things.

 

Basically force powers are not based on " good " or " evil " acts but rather, passion behind that power and purpose of how its being used. Using force lightning to protect your friends from certain harm is not inherently evil in any way, and using your rage to fight back your enemy and driving yourself with passion is NOT evil in any way!

 

Reason that many JEDI! fall to the darkside is actually because they are machines... and what i mean by that is, the jedi code says " is no emotion" basically abolish emotion. By doing so they do not experience emotion, and thus they do not know how to deal with it when the time comes. So in a situation where suddenly overwhelmed with emotion, they lose themselves in it and fall to the darkside. IF someone is trained in how to deal with there emotions, to embrace them, and use them then they are going to be far more unlikly to lose themselves in such a situation.

 

Thus i disagree with alignment determining dark and lightside powers what so ever, since a jedi who is evil, and abuses his power is STILL practicing his jedi tenants is still going to be using lightside powers 9/10. While a darkside user who is " good " ie Starkiller(yes yes go ahead and whine) was still very passionate and used his rage and fury to fuel his powers, and in end he STILL was a lightside character even if he used darkside powers!

 

so at end of the day good and evil are just perceptions of individual, for what you see as good i may see as evil, and vice versa... is why i don't like concept of dark and light side... to me is only the force... and it is how individual uses it that dictates what is dark and light.

 

Every single thing you have just stated has been proven wrong in the canon and has been destroyed by Lucas himself and made non-canon.

[Goretzu]

Why must there be a reward associated with something in order for it to have value. Of course it's not going to be game changing. It is something to add another dimension to the identity of your character. I don't need (and really do not want) something if I became full darkside. I don't play my character with such absolutism, and don't want to be encouraged to act otherwise.

 

There should be grey perks too IMO.

[DarthAegis]

Corruption Customization.

 

GO

 

 

 

Examples:

 

 

Dark

- You cannot customize into dark if you are light or neutral.

- Skin color scaling; pale to dark gray.

- Eye color customs like red, yellow, bright red/yellow.

- Cracking intensity; almost clean, to need Acuvue

- Enlightenment restricted voice mods; almost clean, to raspy.

 

 

 

Light

- You cannot customize into light if you are dark or neutral

- Skin color scaling; almost clean, to glowing.

- Eye color customs like blue, bright blue, cyan, white.

- Enlightenment restricted voice mods; almost clean, to deep/glorious.

 

 

 

Neutral

- You cannot customize into neutral if you are dark or light.

- Able to access clean variants of all options

- Able to access the earlier variants of each alignment.

 

 

/signed

[lokdron]

Every single thing you have just stated has been proven wrong in the canon and has been destroyed by Lucas himself and made non-canon.

 

Oh trust me when I hear people who say there are force users who use both sides of the force! Light side sith are still sith! I turn in my bed I bet darth sidious and all the other sith lords turn in their graves including dead jedi.

[Calsidian]

Yes, of course.. currently they are bound to your class. What I am suggesting is take them away from specific classes and make them available to either MIRROR class as unlockable abilities based on your alignment. That way, players can choose their abilities based on the alignment of their toon.

 

What about Bounty Hunters, Troopers, Smugglers, and Imperial Agents? If you're a dark side trooper you get to use a flamethrower because flamethrowers are.... evil? Seems to me these class abilities have nothing at all to do with alignment, and wouldn't really fit into your system.

[Brickabrack]

Honestly I haven't thought about the rewards for being light/dark side. I've been using it as my visual record of my characters alignment, which is kind of cool. Do I want it to matter more? Hell yes. Hopefully we'll get that in the next big content patch (1.3 or so) when they introduce gray alignment. (don't jump on me for saying that; I'm not claiming grey alignment WILL come in 1.3, it is only my best guess)

 

 

I also like the dark side corruption, although I want them to revamp the look a little bit more and maybe let us customize it. Right now it looks more like psycho clown makeup. Also having a light side appearance modifier would be pretty cool too (I don't want a halo or anything for being Light V, but perhaps a certain glow, more saturated colors, a glowy'er lightsaber... something)

[Elyx]

My biggest issue with the LS/DS thing is the development of it through the quest choices. Quests are 95% of your LS/DS development...and many of the choices leave me scratching my head.

 

Like the quest on Coruscant where your jedi is helping the rebel get information on a "corrupt"senator.

 

A: light side = allow the seantor to continue his deceiptive mission...becuase diplomacy is the most important thing in the galaxy. BTW, you end up LYING to the rebel during this. Or....

B: ignoring the whiny senate page (who caught you getting the information on the corrupt senator), and give the info to the rebel to help the cause. nets you dark point.

 

I actually ended up taking dark points because I could see lying like that on my jedi as a decent thing. now, I don't think that my appraoch to it as a solution was completely good, but it was a good thing (most likely chaotic good in reference). but lying to the rebel to further democracy really smacks of being manipulative and "corrupt"...just what I'd expect from a dark side sith.

 

now, on the flip side (ill use low level examples as to not ruin any storyline stuff). On dromund Kaas you have a sith who is asking you to poision the water of a bunch of rebel slaves so they will spend a great deal of time in intense pain but not die (a.k.a torture). His leiutenant gives you the option of just upping the dosage to kill them outright. and the killing option is the GOOD choice.

 

what? really? My choices are torture or killing them outright? how about staging a convincing explosion, and getting them out on a rebel ship bound for a neutral planet? how about convincing the sith to allow the slaves to have their own village (given they submit to empire rule).

 

so we have choices like this to make. The fact that alignment means nil in the game is the only reason these bad plot structures can exist. imagine if getting a ton of nifty game elements depended on alignment! I could easily be stuck with a quest choice that could take away my favorite animation. Oh sorry villager...i was going to help you out, but ill lose my cool lightning shock! so your going to die instead... force lighting is far cooler then saving a village after all....

 

I like allot of the ideas in this thread. But until they flesh out the quest choices to give us more stable (and normal) options, I don't see these ideas as being viable. people already just ignore most quest choices and pick whichever one gets them further along the chain. the more "benefits" we add to the alignement scheme, the more people are going to completelyl ignore their quest choices...which is going in the opposite direction of what the alignment is there for in the first place.

 

so, for now, I say no to additions. but only because they're quest choices...well frankly they are poor at best. Some are good. but many are like "eh? wut? are you serious? that's a light choice..."

Edited April 10, 2012 by Elyx

[Decembrist]

I'm sure they will add more rewards that will make the alignment stand out a bit more as more content comes out.

 

What I really wish they'd done in the first place is completely remove the previews of what alignment every dialogue choice will raise. That would really make things interesting, and it would make people read and analyse the story, but with the icon right there telling you which option to click, I feel like they threw all of their own work with that system out of the window. I know you can disable it in the settings, but that's pretty meaningless when other players have it turned on by default.

[misterME]

What I really wish they'd done in the first place is completely remove the previews of what alignment every dialogue choice will raise. That would really make things interesting, and it would make people read and analyse the story, but with the icon right there telling you which option to click, I feel like they threw all of their own work with that system out of the window. I know you can disable it in the settings, but that's pretty meaningless when other players have it turned on by default.

 

Absolutely this!

 

Of course, if they did that, they would need to rethink which (LS or DS) some of the choices give, since there are some (mentioned earlier in this thread, and there are others) don't really make much sense.

 

But, since there's no Save -> Pick Option A -> Suck Reward -> Quit -> Load -> Pick Option B in this game, being an MMO (of sorts), I think it would be great if they didn't preview it and just made you live with the outcome. At least then it would mostly eliminate the min-maxing (except for the scores of websites that would pop up with complete guides to LS/DS choices in quests), and it would make it feel a little more like your choices mattered...

 

[Goretzu]

What about Bounty Hunters, Troopers, Smugglers, and Imperial Agents? If you're a dark side trooper you get to use a flamethrower because flamethrowers are.... evil? Seems to me these class abilities have nothing at all to do with alignment, and wouldn't really fit into your system.

 

The whole LS/DS thing is very iffy when it comes to non-force users as it is.

 

I'm not really sure how it can be made much better.

[Kailthir]

LS/DS... it makes no difference, just fluff. If our choices really mattered with the story outcome, it would change things. But It dosen't. You still get the same reward for finishing the quest and there is no change in how your personal story unfolds. It's an illusion.

 

That being said. I would like DS/LS choices take a bigger active roll in what abilities we get.

 

Say you level up and are a LS Jedi sage but just aquired some DS points. Now force (from sith sorc) lightning opens up as an ability. There are plenty of instances where LS jedi have used less than honerable tactics to get what they want.

 

-Obi Wan, Qui Gon and Luke use force persuade.

-Mace uses his passions and anger to fuel his LS force powers.

-Luke force chokes the gamoreans in Jabba's palace.

-Luke uses electric judgment (EU, a form of green sparks/force lightning) to incapicate

and or kill.

-Mara jade was a sith assassin for Sidious, and turns to the light but has control of all her

DS powers.

 

There are plenty more but you get the point. Being a jedi or sith shouldn't be what denotes what abilities you have. It should be what choices you make withing your class, ie: LS/DS.

 

As far as non force users the same rules can apply. Someone mentioned paragon/antagonist. This would be better for these classes. The LS/DS of the force is irrevelent to them.

 

Anyways any changes like this would totally change the game and the leveling system etc. But I think It would of been a better system.

[Kaedusz]

Only complaint i have is that the dark side choiced sometimes are stupid and brutish,there is no deep and meaningful evil,like Kreia's.

 

For those that don't know what Kreia/Darth Traya was like,

 

an example :

 

 

makes you realy question what the jedi represent.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Kaedusz

[Lheim]

Only complaint i have is that the dark side choiced sometimes are stupid and brutish,there is no deep and meaningful evil,like Kreia's.

 

For those that don't know what Kreia/Darth Traya was like,

 

an example :

 

 

makes you realy question what the jedi represent.

 

I'm really sorry, but I always found Kreia a bit pedantic, as a character.

 

She was always the sort that'd passive-aggressively say, no matter what you did, that 'ahah! I got you! this is why what you did was really evil, and not as good as you thought!' .. while employing the kind of reasoning that was fashionable, for a time, with the goth subculture.

 

In other words.. sophistry for sophistry's sake, grey for grey's sake, without real meaningful insight. A teenager's angst-ridden view of the world. I'm not saying there aren't shades of grey. I'm not going to say that moral complexity doesn't exist. I'm simply saying that sometimes, there ARE definable, dictionary examples of good and evil in the world - and that intentions are what matters, not necessarily results.

 

Kreia is the kinda gal who'd look at a fire fighter walking into the world trade towers and ask if he weren't saving the ancestor of a future world dictator. That isn't sophistication, that's stupid.

 

If we let fear of the unknowable consequences of our actions prevent us from doing what is right in the here and now, we become like these people:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8840381/Chinese-girl-run-over-by-a-car-dies.html

 

.. in china, last October, a toddler was hit by two cars on the street. She lay there dying, or dead, while people - perhaps afraid of being caught or sued or making ripples or whatever - walked by, aware of her presence, but not willing to help.

 

That's Kreia - that's all I can say, that kind of story reminds me of Kreia. Only, you see, that girl.. she do it out of calculation, not meekness. And that's a black and white case - indefensible, dictionary-perfect evil. I don't care if you or anybody else wants to argue with me on that point. Evil is too .. glorified nowadays; we act like it has to be hitler-equivalent monstrosity to be called evil at all. It sure doesn't.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Lheim

[Korevas]

Most of the ls/ds problems stem from the fact that the scale seems to be

 

-1=lightside stupidity,

0=reason,

+1=darkside stupidity.

 

Jedi mostly get to decide between -1 and 0, Sith get to decide between 0 and 1. In practice this means good Jedi always let everybody go no matter how many others they will kill and Sith always kill hostages no matter how much strategic value the may have, and/or how much good/evil will be caused by this in the long run.

[Korevas]

 

now, on the flip side (ill use low level examples as to not ruin any storyline stuff). On dromund Kaas you have a sith who is asking you to poision the water of a bunch of rebel slaves so they will spend a great deal of time in intense pain but not die (a.k.a torture). His leiutenant gives you the option of just upping the dosage to kill them outright. and the killing option is the GOOD choice.

 

what? really? My choices are torture or killing them outright? how about staging a convincing explosion, and getting them out on a rebel ship bound for a neutral planet? how about convincing the sith to allow the slaves to have their own village (given they submit to empire rule).

 

Yes, I also like this as an example. For those that have not played the quest, I'd like to point out that the scientist tells you how all that pain from the poison "breaks their will" and everything, so it he considers it an efficient tactic. After this, his assistant approaches you and tells you that both he and his boss know that this actually doesn't work at all. The most efficient approach is a higher dosis that would kill the rebelling slaves outright.

 

The only choices you get now are a) side with the scientist, use pain inducing dosis to torture them or b) side with the assistant, kill them quickly. Of course a is considered ds and b is considered ls; you get no option to subdue them any other way, refusing the quest does not net any alignment points.

 

So in the end, efficient killing is considered good, going out of your way to torture slaves for fun is evil. There is no bigger picture.

[kirorx]

Completly Satisfied is a bit of a loaded question...

 

I am fine with it for the most part, though there are sometimes i disagree during the BH storyline and couple choices i made on LS Jedi. Often the "honorable" thing is sometimes the darkside option where the "Dishonorable" option is DS. Not that big of a deal though.

 

I would like to see more decisions that affect the overall future and storyline of your character though. Maybe one day.

 

So Satisified..I am. Completly Satisfied..I never will be.

[Kaphik]

So Satisified..I am. Completly Satisfied..I never will be.

 

Perfectly said.

[AdamGe]

I'm not happy with it. Here's why:

 

• Darkside Corruption is overdone and looks plain silly after DS II. We look like zombies or frail pandas once you start making our mouths, eyes and noses darker... The glowing red eyes are the only cool part, and the only part that is actually (arguably) canon.
  
• The choices don't always match up. There have been times I've done something particularly nasty and gotten rewarded with LS points for it. W-T-F?
  
• Powers should be tied to LS/DS, at least for force users. It would be easy enough. It is completely anti-canon for LS to use lightening or Force Choke, Sith or not. I can't think of any of the cheesy Jedi powers that would be forbidden to DS though, so maybe that's why they didn't pursue it.
  
• The Legacy abilities should be tied to LS/DS as well. I'll buy that a Smuggler could have a bit of Force sensitivity if there was a powerful Force user in their family, that would manifest in a "Heroic Moment" (I'll give them kudos for that rationale). But if the Smuggler is evil, then it should be Force Choke. If they are good, then it should be whatever the LS equivalent is. If they are neutral, they should get to pick until the meter falls too far one way or the other.
  
• I have yet to find a decision that affects my character once the current quest is completed (except for the odd email, which always seems to provide the same rewards, just worded differently based on the LS/DS choice). There seems to be no long-term reprecussions for choices made, except in the case of the Sith Warrior and Jessa Willsam (if only they would do more stuff like that quest series and variable outcome, which IMO was pretty damn cool).
  
• Alignment should do more than grant you access to certain gear and make you ugly.
  
• What about the glowing blue/white eyes for a high LS? Or the removal of scars? Or something significant?
  

I don't know. Maybe they have plans for it in the future. But right now it seems like a badly-conceived, tacked-on feature with no real thought or importance behind it.

 

Jawa says "Ppbblllttt..."

 

 

Just wanted to comment that I agree with all of the above, but really wanted to highlight the fact that there needs to be more choices that have consequences going forward in your class story/outcome... e.g. SW example above (red text).

 

I hope Bioware takes note of that.

[Goretzu]

Just wanted to comment that I agree with all of the above, but really wanted to highlight the fact that there needs to be more choices that have consequences going forward in your class story/outcome... e.g. SW example above (red text).

 

I hope Bioware takes note of that.

 

You do get to see the odd character again (or not) depending on your choice, and occasionally there's an extra quest step, but these don't happen very often.