Meetra Surik(The Exile) Cooler than revan IMO

[Captain_Zone]

http://drewkarpyshyn.com/c/?p=384

 

He's actually finished it apparently, it is set in the old republic era yes. It's about Satele Shan's son. A non-force user, which I find interesting.

 

Oh, so he shouldn't be able to do much damage, then.

[Rayla_Felana]

If she didn't agree she wouldn't have joined, she didn't disagree with it until well after it was started, actually more after it ended. You've said yourself that it was the Exile's plan to use the Mass Shadow Generator (which it wasn't), which was near genocide of the mandolarions so isn't she guilty of that herself? If not more so? Was that her way of trying to end the war ASAP? She regretted the war but I never saw her condemning Revan.

 

I believe you do not understand, she joined the war because of Revan's public display of the genocide committed by the Cathar, when she realised what the war really was she regretted this, she states very clearly in a Light Side play-through that she realised what was going on, clearly she had problems with the war considering she felt guilt for it for the rest of her life.

 

Yes I believed it was, Revan drew up the initial plan but when Revan did not turn up (on purpose) she planned to use the MSG to end the battle because she realised they were losing not winning and the war was going to reignite if she didn't do it.

 

The Mandalorian Warriors were at Malachor V, the Mandalorians as a whole were not there, hence the fact Revan went to a Mandalorian colony after the Jedi Civil War, clearly the Mandalorians were not wiped out, just severely depleted after throwing all their warriors at Malachor V.

 

In agreeing with the council in the first place she was condemning the entire war, I don't know, you can perceive it as you want, seems very clear to me that she condemned the entire thing.

 

That is just the Sources from KotOR II: TSL, I have more but clearly you do not agree.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Rayla_Felana]

this is the problem, no one can debate with you. you are biased to the character of meetra surik and set in your opinion. your mind is made up.

 

My mind is made up, make whichever statements you would like to, I care less, The Exile from established canon was not represented properly by Karpyshyn, and I doubt he cares if she was, she served his purpose, a shock death he could throw in his novel to make it relevant, because he can never bring himself to kill off Revan, if he would have killed them both off, I'd be more accepting of the scene as a whole.

[Airmo]

I believe you do not understand, she joined the war because of Revan's public display of the genocide committed by the Cathar, when she realised what the war really was she regretted this, she states very clearly in a Light Side play-through that she realised what was going on, clearly she had problems with the war considering she felt guilt for it for the rest of her life.

 

Yes I believed it was, Revan drew up the initial plan but when Revan did not turn up (on purpose) she planned to use the MSG to end the batytle because she realised they were losing not winning and the war was going to reignite if she didn't do it.

 

The Mandalorian Warriors were at Malachor V, the Mandalorians as a whole were not there, hence the fact Revan went to a Mandalorian colony after the Jedi Civil War, clearly the Mandalorians were not wiped out, just severely depleted after throwing all their warriors at Malachor V.

 

In agreeing with the council in the first place she was condemning the entire war, I don't know, you can perceive it as you want, seems very clear to me that she condemned the entire thing.

 

That is just the Sources from KotOR II: TSL, I have more but clearly you do not agree.

 

It's not that I don't understand I just must cearly be missing some infortmation, which if true then I apologize. All I ever remember is the Exile joining Revan to stop the mando's and her activating the MSG which was seen as almost genocide, wasn't Canderous the one who said that they were nearly wiped out and what few left he gathered on Dxun? I could be wrong. And I don't disagree she condemned the entire war I was saying I don't think she condemned Revan, specifcally. Kotor II: TSL?

[Rayla_Felana]

fair enough. i apologize if i came on a little too strong, type A personality here

 

so yeah, i'll leave this alone, i mean, there really isnt more to be discussed, i personally have accepted the canon and i think Drew is a great writer. i loved his portrayals of Revan and Meetra and Scourge. I mean, it wouldve been nice if she went out with more of a bang, but lets be honest, the shock factor of scourge's betrayal was through the roof! i was like, OMG NO HE DIDNT!

 

then his explanation about needing to live forever, stay vigilant, so he could get the proper support to take down the emperor, and then i understood, because meetra and revan werent defeated/sacrificed in vain, Scourge would hold the line and continue the fight in his own way.

 

thats master writing imho.

 

im looking forward to the next book.

 

Surik just wasn't the same person portrayed in all previous and consist works with her included, but let's not revert back to that argument, I put it across as well as I could earlier.

 

I would agree if Scourge wasn't completely wrong, well, not wrong, but completely misunderstood the circumstances surrounding the Emperor.

 

Surik's death and Revan's defeat ended up meaning nothing whatsoever, such is the masterpiece that is Karpyshyn's end to the great KotOR series.

 

As far as the shock factor goes, it was not necessary, a proper battle scene that provides us clear canonical abilities for both Surik and Revan would have been far better, but alas.

[Ricktur]

My mind is made up, make whichever statements you would like to, I care less, The Exile from established canon was not represented properly by Karpyshyn, and I doubt he cares if she was, she served his purpose, a shock death he could throw in his novel to make it relevant, because he can never bring himself to kill off Revan, if he would have killed them both off, I'd be more accepting of the scene as a whole.

 

this is the thing though, i dont think it was Drew's call. SWTOR has revan in the game, he has a voice actor, Revan was written into a game that was released after that novel was released but was in development before that novel was written.

 

hence, Drew was TOLD not to kill off revan.

 

it really wasnt his choice. you are displacing your displeasure on Drew when his hands were tied.

 

same goes with meetra, she's in SWTOR too, she was written in as a ghost and all that jazz, Drew had tenets he HAD to follow when writing that book.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Surik just wasn't the same person portrayed in all previous and consist works with her included, but let's not revert back to that argument, I put it across as well as I could earlier.

 

I would agree if Scourge wasn't completely wrong, well, not wrong, but completely misunderstood the circumstances surrounding the Emperor.

 

Surik's death and Revan's defeat ended up meaning nothing whatsoever, such is the masterpiece that is Karpyshyn's end to the great KotOR series.

 

As far as the shock factor goes, it was not necessary, a proper battle scene that provides us clear canonical abilities for both Surik and Revan would have been far better, but alas.

 

Not all heroes in media can have spectacular death scenes that end up meaning something or change the way something goes. Just remember that.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Rayla_Felana]

It's not that I don't understand I just must cearly be missing some infortmation, which if true then I apologize. All I ever remember is the Exile joining Revan to stop the mando's and her activating the MSG which was seen as almost genocide, wasn't Canderous the one who said that they were nearly wiped out and what few left he gathered on Dxun? I could be wrong. And I don't disagree she condemned the entire war I was saying I don't think she condemned Revan, specifcally. Kotor II: TSL?

 

I believe some serious research/reading/playing would clear your perceptions of the matter.

 

The entire war is described in much further detail in fully played through conversations, when completed with Light Side options, the Knights of the old Republic comic series, multiple statements from Chris Avellone on the matter, all the massive amounts of fluff provided in the Knights of the Old Republic Expansion Campaign Guide for the Saga Edition of the Star Wars Role-Playing Game by Wizards of the Coast.

 

He said the Warrior Clans were almost wiped out, the Mandalorian people as a whole were not nearly as effected as the Warriors were.

 

She does condemn Revan, to pull the duel displayed in the Campaign Guide out, Surik duelled Revan on his flagship for a time, because she could sense the Dark Side in him, when he went for a killing blow and she blocked it, she just walked away from him in tears and left, it is stated quite clearly that she felt abandoned by Revan, and that they had much bad blood.

 

KotOR II: TSL stands for Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords.

[Rayla_Felana]

Not all heroes in media can have spectacular death scenes that end up meaning something or change the way something goes. Just remember that.

 

True, very true, but I believe it was an obligation Drew had, to stay faithful to the character and kill that character in a way that truly does make sense.

[Captain_Zone]

Not all heroes in media can have spectacular death scenes that end up meaning something or change the way something goes. Just remember that.

 

True. Unfortunately, after Chewie's bad*** and spectacularly fitting death scene, we have come to expect it. Unfortunately, not every author has Salvatore's ability with words or his sense of duty to make the character's death mean something. Honestly, the only Author I would put up there with Salvatore in those departments is the late David Gemmell. Especially with Waylander/The Gray Man.

 

EDIT: The book is called "Hero in the Shadows" by David Gemmell. Great read, especially if you've read the other books in the Drenai Saga and his Waylander books in that series.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Rayla_Felana]

this is the thing though, i dont think it was Drew's call. SWTOR has revan in the game, he has a voice actor, Revan was written into a game that was released after that novel was released but was in development before that novel was written.

 

hence, Drew was TOLD not to kill off revan.

 

it really wasnt his choice. you are displacing your displeasure on Drew when his hands were tied.

 

same goes with meetra, she's in SWTOR too, she was written in as a ghost and all that jazz, Drew had tenets he HAD to follow when writing that book.

 

It was all Drew's choice, he wrote the Revan novel, all the flashpoints he was in and the Jedi Knight story, he had free reign over the entire thing.

[Ricktur]

It was all Drew's choice, he wrote the Revan novel, all the flashpoints he was in and the Jedi Knight story, he had free reign over the entire thing.

 

are you absolutely sure of this? because im positive there was some overhead involved. i mean, youre telling me that he just slapped a manuscript in front of the dev team and lucas licensing and said: develop mah storee beeotch!

[Airmo]

I believe some serious research/reading/playing would clear your perceptions of the matter.

 

The entire war is described in much further detail in fully played through conversations, when completed with Light Side options, the Knights of the old Republic comic series, multiple statements from Chris Avellone on the matter, all the massive amounts of fluff provided in the Knights of the Old Republic Expansion Campaign Guide for the Saga Edition of the Star Wars Role-Playing Game by Wizards of the Coast.

 

He said the Warrior Clans were almost wiped out, the Mandalorian people as a whole were not nearly as effected as the Warriors were.

 

She does condemn Revan, to pull the duel displayed in the Campaign Guide out, Surik duelled Revan on his flagship for a time, because she could sense the Dark Side in him, when he went for a killing blow and she blocked it, she just walked away from him in tears and left, it is stated quite clearly that she felt abandoned by Revan, and that they had much bad blood.

 

KotOR II: TSL stands for Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords.

 

I have played Kotor 2 multiple times as LS but I don't remember every line of dialogue so, yes I guess I should research lol If you have any sources you'd like to provide I would gladly read up.

 

Ah ok then that makes sense.

 

See now I don't have a Campaign Guide or anything like that but a duel Between Revan and the Exile..sounds pretty sweet. lol But when was this?? If she did feel that way why did she stick around or go with the MSG plan? Last resort option?? I'm very interested now lol

 

Edit: Oh and about TSL= The Sith Lords lol duh /facepalm at self

Edited April 10, 2012 by Airmo

[Rayla_Felana]

are you absolutely sure of this? because im positive there was some overhead involved. i mean, youre telling me that he just slapped a manuscript in front of the dev team and lucas licensing and said: develop mah storee beeotch!

 

The Dev team and Karpyshyn himself have all said it, he was the sole mind behind the whole story, they decided to give him the entire thing, and let him finish it off, I remember quite clearly on a panel during an event when they announced the novel that Karpyshyn was the one they gave it all to.

[Captain_Zone]

The Dev team and Karpyshyn himself have all said it, he was the sole mind behind the whole story, they decided to give him the entire thing, and let him finish it off, I remember quite clearly on a panel during an event when they announced the novel that Karpyshyn was the one they gave it all to.

 

Is that the reason he quit/got fired? Not sure of the whole story there.

[Rayla_Felana]

I have played Kotor 2 multiple times as LS but I don't remember every line of dialogue so, yes I guess I should research lol If you have any sources you'd like to provide I would gladly read up.

 

Ah ok then that makes sense.

 

See now I don't have a Campaign Guide or anything like that but a duel Between Revan and the Exile..sounds pretty sweet. lol But when was this?? If she did feel that way why did she stick around or go with the MSG plan? Last resort option?? I'm very interested now lol

 

Edit: Oh and about TSL= The Sith Lords lol duh /facepalm at self

 

I have given you all the sources there are, there isn't anything I can remember that contains more knowledge on the war.

 

It was after Dxun, and she stuck around to make sure the war was over, that all of it was done with, she was tired with the whole war, It's rather sad to know that it was only half the war in reality.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Rayla_Felana]

Is that the reason he quit/got fired? Not sure of the whole story there.

 

Nah, as far as I know the official word on it was that he wanted to retire and they had a mutual agreement, nothing big really.

[mefit]

are you absolutely sure of this? because im positive there was some overhead involved. i mean, youre telling me that he just slapped a manuscript in front of the dev team and lucas licensing and said: develop mah storee beeotch!

 

No no He said "I AM THE MAN AND YOU WILL PUT MEH STORIES INTO EFFECT NOW!! LONG LIVE REVAN !" .........................Now in reality ,

he said :

" Heres my stories , is there anything I need to correct or redo ?"

LA / Bioware Replied :

" We made error and corrections for you , thankyou"

 

 

This thread has proven that some people can't understand that when 150mil -200mil is involved there is more people looking over others works than ever . But those who think not are just upset that their character was ended .

[Eillack]

Nah, as far as I know the official word on it was that he wanted to retire and they had a mutual agreement, nothing big really.

 

"Mutual agreement" haha...yeah.

 

Although I'm interested in the novel...I'm probably never going to buy it due to what I've been hearding about it for awhile. It was a pathetic ending to the Kotor series.

[Airmo]

I have given you all the sources there are, there isn't anything I can remember that contains more knowledge on the war.

 

It was after Dxun, and she stuck around to make sure the war was over, that all of it was done with, she was tired with the whole war, It's rather sad to know that it was only half the war in reality.

 

I'd appreciate if you'd tell me where I can read these sources myself, if you had that info.

[Airmo]

"Mutual agreement" haha...yeah.

 

Although I'm interested in the novel...I'm probably never going to buy it due to what I've been hearding about it for awhile. It was a pathetic ending to the Kotor series.

 

You should read it and make up your mind for yourself, imo.

[Rayla_Felana]

"Mutual agreement" haha...yeah.

 

Although I'm interested in the novel...I'm probably never going to buy it due to what I've been hearding about it for awhile. It was a pathetic ending to the Kotor series.

 

Completely agreed, what's worse is Drew decided to make the entire thing mean nothing, because (I suppose I will spoiler tag this):

 

 

The Jedi Knight did not kill the Emperor, he killed the voice, the Emperor is still laughing his *** off on some planet somewhere, Scourge got it all wrong, it all meant nothing, KotOR meant nothing, all that matters if the sub numbers for this game apparently.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Rayla_Felana]

I'd appreciate if you'd tell me where I can read these sources myself, if you had that info.

 

I told you all of them in my post, the list is there, just go back to my earlier post.

[Airmo]

I told you all of them in my post, the list is there, just go back to my earlier post.

 

You told me the sources not where I can find them myself but alrighty.

[Ricktur]

Completely agreed, what's worse is Drew decided to make the entire thing mean nothing, because (I suppose I will spoiler tag this):

 

 

The Jedi Knight did not kill the Emperor, he killed the voice, the Emperor is still laughing his *** off on some planet somewhere, Scourge got it all wrong, it all meant nothing, KotOR meant nothing, all that matters if the sub numbers for this game apparently.

 

$HlT you are absolutely right, i knew that too. . . i mean, i played the sith warrior story and got the mail in my mailbox explaining that. i have a screenshot of it for whoever wants to see it.

 

well, touche Rayla, you are right, Drew killed it.

 

i bow down.