Meetra Surik(The Exile) Cooler than revan IMO

[Rayla_Felana]

so basically what ur saying is that this thread should be closed because both of us are too biased to discuss it anymore? im down with that!!!

 

besides, its too bad for you because she died a sidekick and there is nothing you or you or you can do about it because IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN! and thus, it is canon LOL jokes on you meetra fanboy/girl.

 

for what its worth. im sorry.

 

The poorly thought out argument is strong with this one.

 

Jokes on you that the canon inconsistencies were all over the place and it's very easy to just ignore the novel altogether.

 

Drew has done this once before as well, he trampled all over previous workings to write his Darth Bane novels, which shock horror, he had to include Revan in, because y'know apparently he was supreme genius of the Sith and the Sith'Ari didn't make the Rule of two, no, Revan had to go and take that spotlight, typical Drew Karpyshyn right there, including his baby where he doesn't belong.

[Captain_Zone]

The poorly thought out argument is strong with this one.

 

Jokes on you that the canon inconsistencies were all over the place and it's very easy to just ignore the novel altogether.

 

Drew has done this once before as well, he trampled all over previous workings to write his Darth Bane novels, which shock horror, he had to include Revan in, because y'know apparently he was supreme genius of the Sith and the Sith'Ari didn't make the Rule of two, no, Revan had to go and take that spotlight, typical Drew Karpyshyn right there, including his baby where he doesn't belong.

 

Which is why, once again, I say that LucasArts should go back to the strict oversight they had on the novels back in the 90s. Back then, they didn't just have the movie characters to worry about. They actually positively controlled continuity and lore/canon to make sure nobody came along and broke it. Just using them as an example here, but the biggest infractions were by Drew Karpyshyn and Karen Traviss. They did stomp all over others' work and ignored previously established Lore. I thoroughly enjoyed the Star Wars ExU novels back in the 90s, and I hope they see the light and go back to that policy. As it stands now, the entire Expanded Universe is a mess, and they have a lot of cleaning up to do.

 

The worst part is they can't even pull a Star Trek and use the good ol' "Time/Space Distortion" method. No easy outs. Now, normally I wouldn't advocate the easy path, but there you have it.

[mefit]

so basically what ur saying is that this thread should be closed because both of us are too biased to discuss it anymore? im down with that!!!

 

besides, its too bad for you because she died a sidekick and there is nothing you or you or you can do about it because IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN! and thus, it is canon LOL jokes on you meetra fanboy/girl.

 

for what its worth. im sorry.

 

Notice no Revan fan is upset that he might be dead after Foundry? Notice they aren't making Rage posting saying people are ruining Canon ? Notice Revan fan base aren't attacking Authors ?

 

I would like to see more of Meetra myself but she is dead and it is canon and nothing is ever gonna change that . No one who handles canon or even Georgia Lucas himself have made any statements of Meetra dieing . The Subject is dead when it comes to Canon .

 

Meetra was and forever will be a layal companion of Revans who followed him into unknown space and gave her life for him , then went on to attempt to keep Revan somewhat sane for 300years . Meetra was a hero and died a Hero and drew in my opinion did the story well .

He made Meetra more a hero than Revan by her selfless sacrifice .

 

This thread like its posters who are biased call Revan Fans bad but atleast people who like Revan are willing to let him die without Raging out on the forums .

[Guildrum]

Notice no Revan fan is upset that he might be dead after Foundry?

 

*Facepalm*

[Rayla_Felana]

Notice no Revan fan is upset that he might be dead after Foundry? Notice they aren't making Rage posting saying people are ruining Canon ? Notice Revan fan base aren't attacking Authors ?

 

I would like to see more of Meetra myself but she is dead and it is canon and nothing is ever gonna change that . No one who handles canon or even Georgia Lucas himself have made any statements of Meetra dieing . The Subject is dead when it comes to Canon .

 

Meetra was and forever will be a layal companion of Revans who followed him into unknown space and gave her life for him , then went on to attempt to keep Revan somewhat sane for 300years . Meetra was a hero and died a Hero and drew in my opinion did the story well .

He made Meetra more a hero than Revan by her selfless sacrifice .

 

This thread like its posters who are biased call Revan Fans bad but atleast people who like Revan are willing to let him die without Raging out on the forums.

 

LMFAO. /facepalm

Edited April 10, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Captain_Zone]

LMFAO. /facepalm

 

Wow, didn't see THAT post you quoted....

 

omg /facepalm

 

EDIT: Does he really believe that???? Seriously????

 

2nd EDIT: Now I'm getting a headache...

Edited April 10, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Airmo]

I guess you missed every single thing Meetra says in the canonical light side play-through then, she agreed with the Jedi and condemned Revan more than once, the Dark Side play-through has her stating that joining Revan was the right thing to do, considering you get dark side points for it.

 

You claim she is written that way, yet 'that way' is also the Dark Side play-through, the fact she left Revan instead of turning to the Dark Side to follow him says far more than I need to state.

 

When did the Exile condemn Revan specifically? I don't really remember her doing that.

[Ricktur]

it's very easy to just ignore the novel altogether.

 

i bet you'd love this wouldnt you? unfortunately, you cant ignore the Revan Novel, the Darth Bane trilogy AND the established lore in SWTOR.

 

its set in stone. you're living in meetra surik la la land.

 

you sound like an angry fan that cant let go.

 

it has been written. it is set in stone. it IS canon lore. all of it. if you dont like it, go to school and get licensed by lucasfilm to write novels set in the SW universe. until then, you deal with what licensed established and GOOD authors have written.

 

period. they are better and more qualified than you to make those calls. and who says those writers made those calls individually? you really dont think bioware had anything to do with the direction of those novels? you dont think they had to clear ALL of it through an authority at Lucas film/Lucas arts?

 

you are naive and obsessed over a fill in character (MEETRA SURIK), it wasnt a one man job, it was the entire Lucas License division.

 

read up on the Continuity Holocron. its an on going MONITORED database containing all and every change/addin/retconn of the SW universe over at Lucas Film. Nothing gets by without being checked and properly documented. Here, i'll make things easy for you:

 

Continuity Holocron

 

that means NOTHING gets by without checking out. the Revan Novel and EVERYTHING ELSE written IS canon, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

 

so read up.

 

/thread. . . .AGAIN

Edited April 10, 2012 by Ricktur

[Rayla_Felana]

When did the Exile condemn Revan specifically? I don't really remember her doing that.

 

"I could feel them fall, even before Malachor, the war had consumed them." - To Kreia, concerning the fall of the Revanites, Kreia replies with 'Fell? no, found themselves? yes."

 

"When the war was nearly over I finally understood all the casualties, I understood why we won so easily, he'd become a Mandalorian himself." - To Kreia about how the war was won.

 

"When I saw his victory plan, when I felt how coldly he devised it, I realised everything."

 

"You were right, we should have been patient, I shouldn't have followed them so foolishly, everyone even Revan, went in with no thought, instantly we saw why war should never be fought casually." To Master Lamar.

 

"I know we were wrong to ignore you, I could not turn away from the Cathar" To Kavar (In reference to the Mandalorian genocide of the Cathar before the war really ignited.)

 

"War seemed like the only way, Revan only ended up finishing one war with the start of another." - To Zez Kai-Ell

 

I am sure I could extract more, but my recent Light Side playthrough of the game hasn't finished yet.

[Rayla_Felana]

i bet you'd love this wouldnt you? unfortunately, you cant ignore the Revan Novel, the Darth Bane trilogy AND the established lore in SWTOR.

 

its set in stone. you're living in meetra surik la la land.

 

you sound like an angry fan that cant let go.

 

it has been written. it is set in stone. it IS canon lore. all of it. if you dont like it, go to school and get licensed by lucasfilm to write novels set in the SW universe. until then, you deal with what licensed established and GOOD authors have written.

 

period. they are better and more qualified than you to make those calls. and who says those writers made those calls individually? you really dont think bioware had anything to do with the direction of those novels? you dont think they had to clear ALL of it through an authority at Lucas film/Lucas arts?

 

you are naive and obsessed over a fill in character (MEETRA SURIK), it wasnt a one man job, it was the entire Lucas License division.

 

read up on the Continuity Holocron. its an on going MONITORED database containing all and every change/addin/retconn of the SW universe over at Lucas Film. Nothing gets by without being checked and properly documented. Here, i'll make things easy for you:

 

Continuity Holocron

 

that means NOTHING gets by without checking out. the Revan Novel and EVERYTHING ELSE written IS canon, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

 

/thread. . . .AGAIN

 

When did I state that I ignored canon, I said I could personally ignore the novel because Karpyshyn pulled his second Karen Traviss, I have not stated it should be ignored as canon.

 

I'd suggest learning 'Reading comprehension', before making false assertions.

 

Oh and as far as your personal insults and accusations go, it's nice to see your argument caving further and further by the post, reasserts my perceptions of just how much of an argument you have left, this should not take long.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Notannos
edit

[Ricktur]

When did I state that I ignored canon, I said I could personally ignore the novel because Karpyshyn pulled his second Karen Traviss, I have not stated it should be ignored as canon.

 

I'd suggest learning 'Reading comprehension', before making false assertions.

 

Oh and as far as your personal insults and accusations go, it's nice to see your argument caving further and further by the post, reasserts my perceptions of just how much of an argument you have left, this should not take long.

 

im not trying to argue with you.

 

im trying to get you to let go.

 

and you did say you wanted to ignore that novel all together, i quoted you.

 

im telling you, it cant be ignored. it is the canon.

 

and if anyone has been insulting anyone, its been you insulting me with your dry sarcastic humor.

 

so to recap EVERYTHING ive been saying. meetra surik died the way she did and there is nothing that you nor i can do about it. it cant be ignored, it cant be worked around, it is what it is.

 

you can be ok or unhappy with that decision, youve chosen the latter. thats fine. its over. you can let go. meetra isnt going to magically come alive and die in a better fashion for you.

[Airmo]

"I could feel them fall, even before Malachor, the war had consumed them." - To Kreia, concerning the fall of the Revanites, Kreia replies with 'Fell? no, found themselves? yes."

 

"When the war was nearly over I finally understood all the casualties, I understood why we won so easily, he'd become a Mandalorian himself." - To Kreia about how the war was won.

 

"When I saw his victory plan, when I felt how coldly he devised it, I realised everything."

 

"You were right, we should have been patient, I shouldn't have followed them so foolishly, everyone even Revan, went in with no thought, instantly we saw why war should never be fought casually." To Master Lamar.

 

"I know we were wrong to ignore you, I could not turn away from the Cathar" To Kavar (In reference to the Mandalorian genocide of the Cathar before the war really ignited.)

 

"War seemed like the only way, Revan only ended up finishing one war with the start of another." - To Zez Kai-Ell

 

I am sure I could extract more, but my recent Light Side playthrough of the game hasn't finished yet.

 

None of those quotes are The exile condemning Revan though, it's what she saw Revan becoming and that the war was a mistake.

 

"When the war was nearly over I finally understood all the casualties, I understood why we won so easily, he'd become a Mandalorian himself."

 

"You were right, we should have been patient, I shouldn't have followed them so foolishly, everyone even Revan, went in with no thought, instantly we saw why war should never be fought casually."

 

When were these though?

[Rayla_Felana]

im not trying to argue with you.

 

im trying to get you to let go.

 

and you did say you wanted to ignore that novel all together, i quoted you.

 

im telling you, it cant be ignored. it is the canon.

 

and if anyone has been insulting anyone, its been you insulting me with your dry sarcastic humor.

 

so to recap EVERYTHING ive been saying. meetra surik died the way she did and there is nothing that you nor i can do about it. it cant be ignored, it cant be worked around, it is what it is.

 

you can be ok or unhappy with that decision, youve chosen the latter. thats fine. its over. you can let go. meetra isnt going to magically come alive and die in a better fashion for you.

 

Unfortunately for you, much like mefit, deliberately misinterpreting my statements isn't going to work, in-fact it's one of the weaker attempts I have seen.

 

Now what you are stating without all the dress-up is, I want you to shut up and accept I am right, see? easier to type wasn't it? now I am not trying to change a thing, I am making an on-topic statement about what I believe was wrong with the Revan novel.

 

Now finally, you can state what you want, I really do not care in the least, I presented my opinion on the matter, I don't care if you agree/disagree with me.

 

Enjoy your day.

[Rayla_Felana]

None of those quotes are The exile condemning Revan though, it's what she saw Revan becoming and that the war was a mistake.

 

"When the war was nearly over I finally understood all the casualties, I understood why we won so easily, he'd become a Mandalorian himself."

 

"You were right, we should have been patient, I shouldn't have followed them so foolishly, everyone even Revan, went in with no thought, instantly we saw why war should never be fought casually."

 

When were these though?

 

Sounds like condemnation to me, she did not agree with Revan or the war they fought together, once she realised what the war was and how the Republic were fighting it, she regretted joining and tried to end the war ASAP.

 

I am not sure, the amount of dialogue in the game is large, play a LS playthrough yourself and you'll see yourself.

[Captain_Zone]

Unfortunately for you, much like mefit, deliberately misinterpreting my statements isn't going to work, in-fact it's one of the weaker attempts I have seen.

 

Now what you are stating without all the dress-up is, I want you to shut up and accept I am right, see? easier to type wasn't it? now I am not trying to change a thing, I am making an on-topic statement about what I believe was wrong with the Revan novel.

 

Now finally, you can state what you want, I really do not care in the least, I presented my opinion on the matter, I don't care if you agree/disagree with me.

 

Enjoy your day.

 

I think we should let it go, honestly. I've let Mara Jade go.... ok, I still have that pic of Shannon Baksa on my desktop in her tight black leather, mussed up red hair, and purple lightsaber ignited... but yeah.

 

And honestly, I WAS a bit pissed at the whole Foundry thing. But there is a chance that he could have used Fold Space to escape. Who knows? Either way, it's not worth it. Karpyshyn and Traviss are on my **** list, and hopefully neither one will ever write for Star Wars again. I am seriously praying, even...

 

To sum it up, they pooched their novels pretty badly on some points. They ignored established canon and lore to do whatever they wanted to. Tbh, the blame isn't all on them. The blame is mostly on LucasArts and their relaxed restrictions as far as the novels keeping to established lore and continuity.

[Ricktur]

Unfortunately for you, much like mefit, deliberately misinterpreting my statements isn't going to work, in-fact it's one of the weaker attempts I have seen.

 

Now what you are stating without all the dress-up is, I want you to shut up and accept I am right, see? easier to type wasn't it? now I am not trying to change a thing, I am making an on-topic statement about what I believe was wrong with the Revan novel.

 

Now finally, you can state what you want, I really do not care in the least, I presented my opinion on the matter, I don't care if you agree/disagree with me.

 

Enjoy your day.

 

you are being very insulting. its like a bad defense mechanism, respond to others that disagree with you with sarcasm and immaturity.

 

i will say this: i did not realize this was a strictly opinionated disagreement with the Revan novel and its handling of the death of meetra surik.

 

tbh, it just saounded like you were saying that you didnt agree with how it was handled and that it should not be considered canon. it was really hard to tell exactly what you were saying with all the blatant disrespect of Drew Karpyshyn.

 

so i fired back with, it IS canon and you are misleading ppl into thinking they can think it was not canon (because you did support this idea by saying there were plot holes created by the novel).

 

so if this is strictly your opinion that it should not be canon, then thats fine, i bow out, you are entitled to your opinions.

 

but please dont make this thread about how the novels should not be canon and why they should not be canon. simply state that you disagree with its handlings. because, the novel IS canon and until retconned, it will always be canon.

 

thank you in advance for your understanding.

[Rayla_Felana]

I think we should let it go, honestly. I've let Mara Jade go.... ok, I still have that pic of Shannon Baksa on my desktop in her tight black leather, mussed up red hair, and purple lightsaber ignited... but yeah.

 

And honestly, I WAS a bit pissed at the whole Foundry thing. But there is a chance that he could have used Fold Space to escape. Who knows? Either way, it's not worth it. Karpyshyn and Traviss are on my **** list, and hopefully neither one will ever write for Star Wars again. I am seriously praying, even...

 

To sum it up, they pooched their novels pretty badly on some points. They ignored established canon and lore to do whatever they wanted to. Tbh, the blame isn't all on them. The blame is mostly on LucasArts and their relaxed restrictions as far as the novels keeping to established lore and continuity.

 

Oh if someone wishes to debate the issue with me, I will do so gladly and to the best of my ability, I don't actually have anything to let go of.

 

And I agree, what is funnier though, is that BioWare themselves have done this, Tales of the Jedi Korriban, was well established and depicted, KotOR comes out, stamps all over that canon, and changes Korriban completely, especially the Valley of the Dark Lords.

[Airmo]

Sounds like condemnation to me, she did not agree with Revan or the war they fought together, once she realised what the war was and how the Republic were fighting it, she regretted joining and tried to end the war ASAP.

 

I am not sure, the amount of dialogue in the game is large, play a LS playthrough yourself and you'll see yourself.

 

If she didn't agree she wouldn't have joined, she didn't disagree with it until well after it was started, actually more after it ended. You've said yourself that it was the Exile's plan to use the Mass Shadow Generator (which it wasn't), which was near genocide of the mandolarions so isn't she guilty of that herself? If not more so? Was that her way of trying to end the war ASAP? She regretted the war but I never saw her condemning Revan.

[Ricktur]

Oh if someone wishes to debate the issue with me, .

 

this is the problem, no one can debate with you. you are biased to the character of meetra surik and set in your opinion. your mind is made up.

[Airmo]

I think we should let it go, honestly. I've let Mara Jade go.... ok, I still have that pic of Shannon Baksa on my desktop in her tight black leather, mussed up red hair, and purple lightsaber ignited... but yeah.

 

And honestly, I WAS a bit pissed at the whole Foundry thing. But there is a chance that he could have used Fold Space to escape. Who knows? Either way, it's not worth it. Karpyshyn and Traviss are on my **** list, and hopefully neither one will ever write for Star Wars again. I am seriously praying, even...

 

To sum it up, they pooched their novels pretty badly on some points. They ignored established canon and lore to do whatever they wanted to. Tbh, the blame isn't all on them. The blame is mostly on LucasArts and their relaxed restrictions as far as the novels keeping to established lore and continuity.

 

He's writing another Star Wars Novel now.

[Captain_Zone]

He's writing another Star Wars Novel now.

 

omg /facepalm...

[Rayla_Felana]

you are being very insulting. its like a bad defense mechanism, respond to others that disagree with you with sarcasm and immaturity.

 

i will say this: i did not realize this was a strictly opinionated disagreement with the Revan novel and its handling of the death of meetra surik.

 

tbh, it just saounded like you were saying that you didnt agree with how it was handled and that it should not be considered canon. it was really hard to tell exactly what you were saying with all the blatant disrespect of Drew Karpyshyn.

 

so i fired back with, it IS canon and you are misleading ppl into thinking they can think it was not canon (because you did support this idea by saying there were plot holes created by the novel).

 

so if this is strictly your opinion that it should not be canon, then thats fine, i bow out, you are entitled to your opinions.

 

but please dont make this thread about how the novels should not be canon and why they should not be canon. simply state that you disagree with its handlings. because, the novel IS canon and until retconned, it will always be canon.

 

thank you in advance for your understanding.

 

You are assuming that there is a tone to my written statements, when there is not, although this mistake does happen frequently on the internet so I understand your confusion.

 

I forgive your misinterpretations then.

 

I was never making that point at all, I very clearly stated that I, and I'll be as clear as possible, personally ignore the novel because it seemingly misinterprets a character from earlier workings and portrays said character in a wrong fashion, I do not enjoy the seeming rewrite of said character.

[Ricktur]

He's writing another Star Wars Novel now.

 

really? set in the old republic era? whats it called?

[Airmo]

really? set in the old republic era? whats it called?

 

http://drewkarpyshyn.com/c/?p=384

 

He's actually finished it apparently, it is set in the old republic era yes. It's about Satele Shan's son. A non-force user, which I find interesting.

[Ricktur]

 

I was never making that point at all, I very clearly stated that I, and I'll be as clear as possible, personally ignore the novel because it seemingly misinterprets a character from earlier workings and portrays said character in a wrong fashion, I do not enjoy the seeming rewrite of said character.

 

fair enough. i apologize if i came on a little too strong, type A personality here

 

so yeah, i'll leave this alone, i mean, there really isnt more to be discussed, i personally have accepted the canon and i think Drew is a great writer. i loved his portrayals of Revan and Meetra and Scourge. I mean, it wouldve been nice if she went out with more of a bang, but lets be honest, the shock factor of scourge's betrayal was through the roof! i was like, OMG NO HE DIDNT!

 

then his explanation about needing to live forever, stay vigilant, so he could get the proper support to take down the emperor, and then i understood, because meetra and revan werent defeated/sacrificed in vain, Scourge would hold the line and continue the fight in his own way.

 

thats master writing imho.

 

im looking forward to the next book.