Lord_Karsk Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) A rated premade team should NEVER be matchmade against an unrated or a solo rated team. How is this even being considered? It is unfair for both teams. Basically you are inflating the rated premade's ELO and giving the solo/unrated players a frustrating pvp experience. No one wins, as a rated premade player I would rather be stuck in queue forever. Implementing the ranked system like this pretty much makes your rating mean absolutely nothing. Please reconsider this... Well after the Ilum fiasko are you really suprised they will do this.Me i cant wait for the forums to burn after pre mades start crushing pugs. It's like they want the pvp playerbase to leave Quote Taugrim : LINK However, in order to ensure that players won’t have to wait too long for a match to occur, the system will become more ‘flexible’ over time. Solo and group queued players might be pulled together after a while if needed to launch a match. …I don’t like this at all. I was looking forward to queuing solo for Ranked Warzones to play with and against 15 other people who queued solo. It’s the ultimate competitive PUG. Having solo players face a premade for Ranked Warzones makes no sense, because it’s unfair matchmaking. But there’s more… If a match cannot be made for extended periods of time, then Normal and Rank queued players (except those who queued as a group of five or more) might be pulled together to launch a ‘mixed’ match …yikes. I’d rather wait for a longer queue pop than fight with or against players who are not queuing for the same kind of match that I am. The whole point of Ranked Warzones is to create a competitive context where you get matched up against opponents of roughly the same skill level. Edited April 5, 2012 by Lord_Karsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentWolf Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I really hope for BW that they won't be stupid enough to actually pit solo queueing players versus premades. Hell, even 3-4 man premade shouldn't be allowed to go vs a pug. If this is going to be possible, then it's just a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dufox Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 lmao my logic could be flawed here. im to lazy to research it this early in the morning, but to my understanding the only time you will ever get qued versus a premade of 8 would be if there is absolutely no one else to fill the spots after a certain amount of time passes. if this is the case, its either fight someone that is a guaranteed challenge and will prolly kick your ***. or sit in fleet and complain about que times... not to mention after cross server ques are put into the game, the odds of it happening would be slim to none. basically a fail safe. i see no problem with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukor Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Totally agree, 8 man teams should never be matched against anything other than other 8 man teams. If an 8 man team queues and no other 8 man team is available then no match should be created. The mixed matches will only happen with groups of up to 5 players. You're not going to see a full 8-man team come stomp your face in the way you think it's going to happen. To the OP: Do some research before coming into the forums and getting people all riled up with your false information. Better yet... just stay out of the forums if it's too difficult for you to spend a few minutes reading about what's actually going to be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuchoMacho Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 its ok for preseason. once season 1 goes live it SHOULD accompany cross-server and rated should always be vs rated. Cheers This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelightr Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 To everyone that keeps saying its unfair to make the premades wait, that they pay to play the game how they want, etc etc. The reverse can be said as well, simply because someone rolled on a (now) low population server, or perhaps doesn't have enough to field a premade themselves, does not mean they should be forced to pad your rating for you. The solution, sadly, will be cross server rated/unrated warzones. Its the only way to please both sides of the PvP crowd. Personally I love to pvp, but I hate the attitude and freaking out that people are prone to in competitive pvp matches. You wanted competitive pvp, you have it. Every choice has its drawbacks and longer queues will likely be yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiyoma Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 This is preseason. They've already stated it's in preparation for cross server qing in the next game updated and actual season one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) This is preseason. They've already stated it's in preparation for cross server qing in the next game updated and actual season one. I'd rather keep PvP'in with current queue times. "it's eventually going to get better" isn't really much consolation. I don't think I've ever used the cliche troll rant of "I'm not paying for beta" before, but this proof-of-concept is really testing my patience. Edited April 5, 2012 by BDutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timadan Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 This is preseason. They've already stated it's in preparation for cross server qing in the next game updated and actual season one. This with the addition of they will wipe the ratings slate clean when season one starts~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancaglon Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 No one wins, as a rated premade player I would rather be stuck in queue forever. Implementing the ranked system like this pretty much makes your rating mean absolutely nothing. Please reconsider this... Agree 100% -- I'll never say yes to the "be destroyed by premade battlemaster/war hero team Y/N" question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthiel Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 So people should be punished because you say so? it defeats the concept of rated in every way. congrats you win the stupidest ****in post of the day award you win a brain i'd say the instructions came with the box but i doubt your smart enough to put it in anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancaglon Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) Im not sure most people that posted in here really know how the queue system works. Please read up on it, its not as bad as it sounds. Like I said read up on it, and if you still hate it then there ya go. I've read it, and I'm pretty sure you don't understand it. Not only does it pull in people queuing solo for an unrated warzone to be destroyed by a rated team, it also rewards them just the same (and probably fewer) wz commendations than they'd have gotten from a proper unrated match. If they got some rated warzone commendations, the puggers might be inclined to make a decent go of it, but as it stands, this is welfare for the rated teams. Edited April 5, 2012 by Ancaglon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGsam Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Potentially killing their game's dedicated PvP community over a pathetic pride issue is quite laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenrik Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The REAL question is: why are rated coming out BEFORE cross server? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthiel Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 they better knock it out the box with pvp changes its what 5 or 6 weeks till gw2 comes out with 100X the pvp system from the get go, and no im not a rabid gw2 fan that needs to go to their forum and talk **** there gw1 was horse crap and i dont see how it can be better, and i love the swtor story and 90% of the system so far but they dropped the ball on pvp they thought it would be like 5% to 15% attendance when it turns out its about 60% to 70% now there trying to upgrade it like its still the 15% stake they though it was instead of radically expanding on it like the 60+% of users want. its gonna take cross q's for rated to be more than a joke(need at least 20 full individual teams to make a live bracket) 2 more wz's(both of witch need to be at least 4 to 6 times bigger ones now are like fighting in the lobby of a 1star hotel) and not across all the server brackets they need battlegroups of like 8 servers each so you at least still see some of the same people you pvp with again and its not like wow where you pvp with some peeps then its like they were abducted by aliens and are being probed cuz you never fukin see them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtfnonamefree Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The realistic solution to the problem? Don't implement the Ranked Warzones until you have the systems in place to support them. Calling it a "necessary evil" is not an excuse. The 1.2 approach of throwing everything (and the kitchen sink) that they can into the mix and hoping some of it sticks is a recipe for disaster already. If you do not have the population to support Ranked Warzones, then do not implement them until cross-server queues are available. It's desperation, it's negatively impacting the enjoyment of players, and it's uncalled for. Of course Bioware is performing a political CYA act with the labeling of this patch as "Pre-Season," but what does that mean? Only that they want to be able to point to the name when it blows up and use it as an excuse. If you see it as a necessary evil, fine. Don't get upset at others who are not so forgiving. Once you begin charging for your product, the 'grace period' is over. You need to get things right. Your leeway for cutting corners is gone. Other industries and their customers don't tolerate it - why should we? Again - if the systems (Cross server queues, etc) to make Ranked Warzones work and not infringe on the enjoyment of others are not in place - do not implement them. Hiding behind labels like 'pre-season' or 'necessary evil' is disingenuous and insulting to people on both sides of the spectrum. Couldn't have worded it better myself, so I'll stick to a qft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swidgin Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 IT'S PRESEASON.....................shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Plus Q with 8 and it's a NONissue. Why is there always so much FAIL & QQ here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The REAL question is: why are rated coming out BEFORE cross server? Good question. IT'S PRESEASON.....................shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Plus Q with 8 and it's a NONissue. Why is there always so much FAIL & QQ here? Because longer queue times suck. Given the same number of people to play with, creating additional queues will lengthen the queue pop times. We're going from 2 queues to 4 queues; 10-49, 50unranked, 50solo ranked, 50group ranked. If you happen to have level 50 people queuing for each of these equally, then your queues times just got 3x longer at 50. So they allow all of the 50s queues to match against eachother after a period of time, but they also allow players to opt out of this miss-matched making. How many puggers do you think will continue to opt in for the miss-matches after they've been rolled a couple times by the same premade? Queues times are obviously going to go up, and slapping the disclaimer "it's just preseason" doesn't make it better, it makes it more of a waste of time. We're just going to be doing live testing for the sake of data mining at the cost of higher queue times. Sorry, that's what the PTS is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 So people should be punished because you say so? So it is completely ok that an 8-man premade is matched with a pure pug and steamrolls them. I turn your own question back on you, sir, even though I'm fairly certain what your answer will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoline Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I think they should make different WZs for grouped PvP to promote it. Guilds or premade groups could go against each other in harder WZs for rank on their server and if they ever do cross server PvP they can have ranks among the servers as well. There is so much here that they could do it is not even funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalez Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Organized 8 mans fighting PUGS is NOTHING NEW in MMo's. Some of you are acting like this is an MMO 1st The 1 advantage OPEN WORLD PvP has over Warzones/Instance PvP is: if the enemy side has an awesome 8 man out there rolling everyone, well..guess what...spam your chat channel or w/e and get 16 or 24 or however many it takes to beat them....super 8 man premades can be negated somewhat in Open PvP, they cant be negated in Instance PvP fighting pugs and everyone knows this That being said Im looking forward to running in ranked 8 man in this game, sounds fun for the most part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) Wow, seriously... go back to PvE. Let me break this down for you. PvP is about beating other players. If you don't think you can cut it, then go back to pve. If you want to get better at this game, you're going to do it by fighting better players, not by having the game finding you scrubs so you can wallow in your own badness. There is literally nothing preventing you from having a group just as strong as a premade, only your childish, "gimme" attitude that wants to feel like a winnar for accomplishing nothing. If you don't deserve to win, you don't get to win. THAT'S PVP. SUCK IT UP. There is a game mode designed for players who want artificial challenges designed to let them win. It's called PvE. Edited April 5, 2012 by Ahhmyface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadNewzzz Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I can understand this is needed for a temp fix until cross server wz is in place BUT... Pugs que for unranked and the hardcore premade que for ranked. after the game the pugs get reward for playing a unranked game and premade get reward for playing a ranked game. How can that be? Both should get reward for playing a unranked match. I don't understand how BW are thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoothwyn Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) I can understand this is needed for a temp fix until cross server wz is in place BUT... Pugs que for unranked and the hardcore premade que for ranked. after the game the pugs get reward for playing a unranked game and premade get reward for playing a ranked game. How can that be? Both should get reward for playing a unranked match. I don't understand how BW are thinking. This. ^^ If a ranked team isn't fighting players who also queued for a ranked warzone then NO ONE should get credit for a ranked match. Does a division 1 team get credit in its division 1 bracket for beating some community college? No. A lot of the "suck it up it's PVP" threads here are clearly folks salivating over the prospect of receiving ranked rewards for rolling unranked pugs ... Edited April 5, 2012 by Smoothwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niaoru Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 This game is already dying, anyway. I don't know why everyone is frothing at the mouth over something that they won't even be a part of in less than a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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