DieAlteHexe Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 C'mon admit it you love pie too; it's okay you're amoung friends. I'm a heretic. I prefer savoury, so cheese/crackers? But if forced to eat sweet desserts, I'm a pastry freak...eclairs, anything with choux paste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Swtor is moving into it's second quarter. At what point will "The game was just released" no longer apply? At what point should we hold BioWare accountable for things such as bugs (bugs haven't been a problem for me), performance, and content? /discuss Games will always have bugs, it's unavoidable and Bioware is working on fixing them, and that's what matters, not whether you feel they should be punished somehow for there being bugs in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Why the polarization? Are you that short on personal tastes and opinions that you must either love or hate something? Listen, the game is great in my opinion and I enjoy it. Does it have flaws? Yes, yes it does but they don't outweigh the good stuff in my opinion, thus I subscribe to the game. I don't defend the game on these forums because that's foolish, personal opinions are personal. However, I do point out the flaws in peoples "suggestions" and I do tell people to stop whining over completely trivial matters, like for example someone whining that they have to wait a whole MINUTE for the companion to sell the grey junk. That's just idiotic whining. I also try to tell people to get back to reality with their demands that would fix minor inconveniences and would take a huge amount of time to implement and that the devs should focus on things that matter to the game as a whole, not some minor issues that only 5 people in existence ever even noticed (exaggeration, but you get my drift) If this makes me a fanboy then fine, call me a fanboy but that doesn't invalidate my points nor does it validate yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Pretty much out of the "new release" category now. There were some bugs and performance issues that were annoying early on, but they have been mostly fixed (or will be in the coming patch). There isn't anything gamebreaking left that I have run into. From a post-50 perspective, it is possible that there is further work to do. However, I don't have any level 50 characters, so I'm not particularly concerned with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) SWTOR will no longer be a new release once the griefers are done yelling about how the game should have had everything they ever wanted at launch and go on to their next prey's forums to do the same thing there. Edited March 31, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkgryphon Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 If you feel that you must hold a developer accountable, then I suggest you stop paying for the game, and stop playing. I will never understand how a person could be so dissatisfied with a product, that it leads them to try and ruin other people's enjoyment of the game by trolling the forums, and still pay for it over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorkTrooper Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 At what point should we hold BioWare accountable for things such as bugs (bugs haven't been a problem for me), performance, and content?/discuss Whenever you feel like it. People have been passing judgement since beta started, perhaps even before, from press releases, etc. Either you have patience/interest to see the game evolve, or you don't. The people who keep saying "but the game is only X months old" already have a level of interest that makes them want to see where the development goes, to some degree or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 No surprise there. It seems to almost be a compulsion and I've noticed there are even "fads" with the OTT complaining. One person will post on an issue and the next thing you know...10 others will make their own threads about it. Rarely are they content to post in an existing thread. Mods are kept hopping to consolidate which then annoys the you-know-what outta the posters who wanted their very own thread on the latest complaint. It's fascinating in a way. As for the VC folk...I'd be nervous investing in one of these ventures. It's a risk. Some of 'em really take off and some flop horrendously. The stakes get higher and higher which is really a shame, actually. I'd like to see a relatively small indi house come up with a less formulaic game for those who are having hissy fits over the popular MMO formats. I can appreciate their frustration. But wow...it's a HUGE risk. Well the future isn't Massively anyway it is the Online Role Playing game; BioWare already knows this. What you will see are F2P RPG's with social hubs (where folks can hang out form small 2-4 man groups and play minigames) and cash shops. I take more than a little satisfaction in knowing that this is the self entitled gamers worst nightmare and that they brought it on themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Well the future isn't Massively anyway it is the Online Role Playing game; BioWare already knows this. What you will see are F2P RPG's with social hubs (where folks can hang out form small 2-4 man groups and play minigames) and cash shops. I take more than a little satisfaction in knowing that this is the self entitled gamers worst nightmare and that they brought it on themselves. So they did, it seems. Still-, I would like to see something that meets the requirements/expectations of those who keep going on about how "this" or "that" isn't in games anymore (grind/sandbox/RvR/WorldPvP etc. etc. etc.) so that they, too, can enjoy themselves. I just wish they didn't have to be so bleedin' noisy about their discontent. I've lost track of how many games I've bought and discovered...eh or worse yet, UGH. I just chalked it up to the way things go and moved on. I never did see the sense of continuing to wallow in misery. AND paying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbefrier Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yeah it is and I was talking to a good friend in the industry about this; what investors and venture capitalist are seeing in the MMO community makes them never to want to invest in new MMO's. Here is a direct quote from Carl Rollings of Lightspeed Venture "They are they whiniest hardest to please audience ever." The first ripple was THQ crap canning Warhammer DM don't look for new titles announced this year or next (aside from Asian f2P games) also look for less expansions and content on established MMO's simply because you don't invest in an audience that hates you no matter what. So what can we take away from this? The self entitled MMO players thought that by crying so much they would get these highly polished MMO's that had amazing endless content...instead they have pretty much killed the industry. Achievement unlocked I guess. wheres the plus rep button when you need one. lots of good points here it seems today MMO players come into a game expecting all these things and if its not exactly to their liking they whine and whine and whine until the game is destroyed or they get their way(these are not always mutually exclusive). community feed back is one thing but devs still need to make the game they set out to make, if you try and please every one you may very well end up pleasing no one. I would hate to have to deal with this kind of community. If i ever made an MMO i would follow arena net and just not have official forums and just lurk community sites and stuff for feedback. because this crap gets to damn repetitive and would wear on my nerves pretty fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunkShizzle Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) The question to you is how long of a pass should they be given? i think the better question is,why did people expect a perfect game at release Edited March 31, 2012 by CrunkShizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Yeah it is and I was talking to a good friend in the industry about this; what investors and venture capitalist are seeing in the MMO community makes them never to want to invest in new MMO's. Here is a direct quote from Carl Rollings of Lightspeed Venture "They are they whiniest hardest to please audience ever." The first ripple was THQ crap canning Warhammer DM don't look for new titles announced this year or next (aside from Asian f2P games) also look for less expansions and content on established MMO's simply because you don't invest in an audience that hates you no matter what. So what can we take away from this? The self entitled MMO players thought that by crying so much they would get these highly polished MMO's that had amazing endless content...instead they have pretty much killed the industry. Achievement unlocked I guess. Here we see confusion over the difference between causation and correlation. If the investors and venture capitalists are so afraid of their whine-baby audience, they can take their money elsewhere. The fact is that MMOs, when successful, can return a lot of money to the investors who backed them. But it's a high-risk market because the MMO industry is bloated and supersaturated; players have tons of options to choose from, and they'll go where they can to find their entertainment. In the end, it seems more like a bunch of crybaby bean counters upset that the market has changed and they can't rake in their oodles and oodles of dollars without taking bigger risks. They still think they can make a game that looks and quacks like WoW and turn WoW profits. They can't. Edited March 31, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunkShizzle Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Well the future isn't Massively anyway it is the Online Role Playing game; BioWare already knows this. What you will see are F2P RPG's with social hubs (where folks can hang out form small 2-4 man groups and play minigames) and cash shops. I take more than a little satisfaction in knowing that this is the self entitled gamers worst nightmare and that they brought it on themselves. the future of mmorpgs probably is "lets go to this mmo,and whine all day about it not having years of content.then when we get tired of whining we'll just unsubscribe and go to the next mmo" judging by how star wars the old republics looking.thats pretty much what you got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundli Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yeah it is and I was talking to a good friend in the industry about this; what investors and venture capitalist are seeing in the MMO community makes them never to want to invest in new MMO's. Here is a direct quote from Carl Rollings of Lightspeed Venture "They are they whiniest hardest to please audience ever." The first ripple was THQ crap canning Warhammer DM don't look for new titles announced this year or next (aside from Asian f2P games) also look for less expansions and content on established MMO's simply because you don't invest in an audience that hates you no matter what. So what can we take away from this? The self entitled MMO players thought that by crying so much they would get these highly polished MMO's that had amazing endless content...instead they have pretty much killed the industry. Achievement unlocked I guess. Great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) the future of mmorpgs probably is "lets go to this mmo,and whine all day about it not having years of content.then when we get tired of whining we'll just unsubscribe and go to the next mmo" judging by how star wars the old republics looking.thats pretty much what you got And that's the consumer's fault, how exactly? Edited March 31, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Swtor is moving into it's second quarter. At what point will "The game was just released" no longer apply? At what point should we hold BioWare accountable for things such as bugs (bugs haven't been a problem for me), performance, and content? /discuss Depends on what you think is missing- by 1.2 it'll have more operations, flashpoints, quests and warzones than most mmos after a year. It's starting rated pvp earlier than many other top games. If you expect the same amount of content WoW has after 7+ years + several years development- then you may not get that for a few years. Another thing is- what do you consider vital content. One person might consider add ons a must have for mmos- some don't, and others don't want add ons period. I haven't seen complaints on performance or bugs in a while- most big bugs have been fixed- and while bugs pop up people need to realize that even after ten years every single mmo made will still get bugs from time to time- and sometimes big ones. Performance complaints vanished when Ilum was made obsolete- clearly they'll need to look at that issue when they put out their new open world pvp zone. So, it really depends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enkenon Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Swtor is moving into it's second quarter. At what point will "The game was just released" no longer apply? At what point should we hold BioWare accountable for things such as bugs (bugs haven't been a problem for me), performance, and content? /discuss I guess after 1.2 b@@@t walks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yeah it is and I was talking to a good friend in the industry about this; what investors and venture capitalist are seeing in the MMO community makes them never to want to invest in new MMO's. Here is a direct quote from Carl Rollings of Lightspeed Venture "They are they whiniest hardest to please audience ever." The first ripple was THQ crap canning Warhammer DM don't look for new titles announced this year or next (aside from Asian f2P games) also look for less expansions and content on established MMO's simply because you don't invest in an audience that hates you no matter what. So what can we take away from this? The self entitled MMO players thought that by crying so much they would get these highly polished MMO's that had amazing endless content...instead they have pretty much killed the industry. Achievement unlocked I guess. This right here- we didn't have the same perfectionist expectations out the door, or the level of whining over every single thing when older mmos came out. Now though, there's hundreds of awful mmos, and at least a dozen decent f2p mmos out there- why risk the money to try to make a great mmo when you have about a month to make an impact, in a huge game that's almost guaranteed to have some errors, and due to the scope will have to not include some features which'll become the only things that a group of maybe 50-100 fans will gravitate to and fill every forum they can touch with thousands of posts raging? Basically, 'fans' have made it their goal to ruin any mmo that doesn't fully please them with bad press- and that's much easier to do nowadays with the level of social networking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enkenon Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Quote: -Yeah it is and I was talking to a good friend in the industry about this; what investors and venture capitalist are seeing in the MMO community makes them never to want to invest in new MMO's. Here is a direct quote from Carl Rollings of Lightspeed Venture "They are they whiniest hardest to please audience ever." The first ripple was THQ crap canning Warhammer DM don't look for new titles announced this year or next (aside from Asian f2P games) also look for less expansions and content on established MMO's simply because you don't invest in an audience that hates you no matter what. So what can we take away from this? The self entitled MMO players thought that by crying so much they would get these highly polished MMO's that had amazing endless content...instead they have pretty much killed the industry. Achievement unlocked I guess. -This right here- we didn't have the same perfectionist expectations out the door, or the level of whining over every single thing when older mmos came out. Now though, there's hundreds of awful mmos, and at least a dozen decent f2p mmos out there- why risk the money to try to make a great mmo when you have about a month to make an impact, in a huge game that's almost guaranteed to have some errors, and due to the scope will have to not include some features which'll become the only things that a group of maybe 50-100 fans will gravitate to and fill every forum they can touch with thousands of posts raging? Basically, 'fans' have made it their goal to ruin any mmo that doesn't fully please them with bad press- and that's much easier to do nowadays with the level of social networking. Which is exactly why MMOs should only be made by companies that are passionate about them and above all love to create but also love to play them. Corporate buns can and will always make more money with other types of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundli Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Which is exactly why MMOs should only be made by companies that are passionate about them and above all love to create but also love to play them. Corporate buns can and will always make more money with other types of games. And how fun is that when all you get back is hate and whine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoobie Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Yeah it is and I was talking to a good friend in the industry about this; what investors and venture capitalist are seeing in the MMO community makes them never to want to invest in new MMO's. Here is a direct quote from Carl Rollings of Lightspeed Venture "They are they whiniest hardest to please audience ever." The first ripple was THQ crap canning Warhammer DM don't look for new titles announced this year or next (aside from Asian f2P games) also look for less expansions and content on established MMO's simply because you don't invest in an audience that hates you no matter what. So what can we take away from this? The self entitled MMO players thought that by crying so much they would get these highly polished MMO's that had amazing endless content...instead they have pretty much killed the industry. Achievement unlocked I guess. Unfortunately, it's not just the MMO players, but today's gamers in general: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/video-games/controller-freak/gamer-entitlement-on-the-rise-call-of-duty-fans-call-for-24-hour-blackout/article2387353/ "Given this new climate, were I a game maker I’d strongly close the tap on the flow of pre-release information and reconsider giving any pre-launch interviews. At the very least I’d force my staff into some intense media training sessions outlining all of the topics that ought not to be broached prior to sitting down with journalists or bloggers. After all, why offer tantalizing words about the concepts you’re trying to construct when fans now seem bound to spitefully throw them back in your face if, in their minds, you fail to succeed?" (and that is from just yesterday) http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/articles/184645-3-severe-cases-of-gamer-entitlement And this is just sickening: http://www.gamespot.com/features/the-dangers-of-gamer-entitlement-6350732/ Notice how all those articles are from within the last 2 months. If anything, it's at least good to see other outlets discussing the issue. Edited March 31, 2012 by Skoobie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 wheres the plus rep button when you need one. lots of good points here it seems today MMO players come into a game expecting all these things and if its not exactly to their liking they whine and whine and whine until the game is destroyed or they get their way(these are not always mutually exclusive). community feed back is one thing but devs still need to make the game they set out to make, if you try and please every one you may very well end up pleasing no one. I would hate to have to deal with this kind of community. If i ever made an MMO i would follow arena net and just not have official forums and just lurk community sites and stuff for feedback. because this crap gets to damn repetitive and would wear on my nerves pretty fast Given that you get more info from Bioware reps at disgusting sites like reddit than from their official site they're pretty much to that point already. So why go after such a large playerbase if they don't want to please all of them? Either make it a hardcore grindfest, a sandbox, or a single-player game with multiplayer option-trying to create some Frankenstein's monster of a hybrid doesn't please anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Unfortunately, it's not just the MMO players, but today's gamers in general: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/video-games/controller-freak/gamer-entitlement-on-the-rise-call-of-duty-fans-call-for-24-hour-blackout/article2387353/ "Given this new climate, were I a game maker I’d strongly close the tap on the flow of pre-release information and reconsider giving any pre-launch interviews. At the very least I’d force my staff into some intense media training sessions outlining all of the topics that ought not to be broached prior to sitting down with journalists or bloggers. After all, why offer tantalizing words about the concepts you’re trying to construct when fans now seem bound to spitefully throw them back in your face if, in their minds, you fail to succeed?" (and that is from just yesterday) http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/articles/184645-3-severe-cases-of-gamer-entitlement And this is just sickening: http://www.gamespot.com/features/the-dangers-of-gamer-entitlement-6350732/ Notice how all those articles are from within the last 2 months. If anything, it's at least good to see other outlets discussing the issue. The article re: Ms. Hepler is a sad demonstration of just how far we've veered from common courtesy and civility under the excuse that "it's just the 'Net". I would love to say "that's simply unbelievable" but unfortunately, it is all too believable. Whilst it might be sociologically or psychologically interesting how people behave when they have the "benefit" of anonymity, I would far rather see people stop acting like ravening beasts toward each other. Sadly, I don't expect that to happen any time soon. In fact, behaviour continues to get worse and worse. Sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolexus Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Swtor is moving into it's second quarter. At what point will "The game was just released" no longer apply? At what point should we hold BioWare accountable for things such as bugs (bugs haven't been a problem for me), performance, and content? /discuss Irrelevant. Took them what, 5 months to just fix the pylon bug and still have SOA Bugged? I wonder how the new raid will be. Maybe they should just start treating endgame content with a bit more care instead of all this alt crap and legacy crap for alts, jezus where the hell did they put their brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Irrelevant. Took them what, 5 months to just fix the pylon bug and still have SOA Bugged? I wonder how the new raid will be. Maybe they should just start treating endgame content with a bit more care instead of all this alt crap and legacy crap for alts, jezus where the hell did they put their brain. I expect their brain is right where it should be. Looks to me like they fully intended for this game to be one that encourages alts and appreciating the story lines as well as the leveling process as opposed to most other MMOs where leveling is just an obstacle to get over in order to get to the good stuff. TLDR: Their brain is in the right place, if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts