Pvp imbalence from the perspective of a Sin.

[Alisitcia]

Now I know I'm going to get flamed, but I really don't mind that.

 

Now I've been playing ToR since the Beta and have been a Shadow or a Sin since then. I came into the Live servers in the pre-launch stage of the game and have been Sin / Shadow ever since. While I have a sage at 50 as well, I focus almost 100% on this class and have come to notice a few things about Pvp I believe need to be Addressed:

 

First: Defensive Cooldowns.

As a Assassin I have two defensive cooldowns. Deflection which gives 50% Melee / Ranged deflection for 12 seconds, as a Deception sin this raises my defense to 60% which is almost pointless overall. I personally have noticed that it really makes little difference when other classes have flat Damage reduction or abilities that cleave clean through us while it is up. Our other is Force Shroud and makes us immune to Tech / Force powers (stuns included) for 3 seconds.

 

Of these, I do believe that Force Shroud is not under nor overpowered, it's fairly balanced. However, I see that Deflection is flatly -ineffective- as any spec but Darkness. I understand we are not meant to be high survival due to our damage as Deception (my prefered spec on my Assassin) but the "Cooldown" itself is utterly useless, I've used it and had a Jugger and Mara rip me apart in 1-1 fights, while their defensive cooldowns as dps are *very* strong.

Improvements: Two suggestions I have for this are, a) Raise the defense chance from 50% to 75% (Giving 85% Parry / Deflect) for 12 seconds, making it an effective cooldown, perhaps shorten the duration a little if that's the choice. b) leave it at 50% and add 35-50% Damage reduction to actually make us consider actually popping as more then a joke.

 

Second: Out of stealth attacks.

 

As a Stealthing class, our most important time is when we come out of stealth we are able to use one of three attacks. Of these, one of our attacks is called "Spike" and currently is rather underpowered.

 

Spike: 30 Force Cost, 500-600 Damage, 2 Second stun. As a Shadow it is actually far worse, because of the animation taking so long to apply it's stun and shortens it's actual stun duration rather dramatically. As a Sin, I have not noticed this so much, spike drops people onto the ground -very- quickly and gives us time to get two attacks in. But.. on this note when we are compared to the Scoundrel or Op and their opener... which is a 1.5 Second stun, with a much lower cost, they hit 4-5x Harder with it.

 

Suggestion:

 

I can see again, two ways to solve this and make it an ability that again, non-Darkness (tanking) Sin's will be able to use and think about which we wish to open with.. rather then coming out and simply using our Voltaic Slash or Maul.

a) Leave Spike as is but -remove- the Resolve generation that it gives. For a 2 second stun, with absolutely no damage it is *very* high and deters any wise Assassin from opening with it. To compensate, make the Darkness talent to allow it to be used from out of stealth to once more apply resolve.

 

b) Instead of taking away the resolve, increase the base damage of Spike by 100-150% so that it hits for about 50% of "Shoot First (Scoundrel)" and becomes a choice that is actually something we could use in the beginning of a fight without gimping ourselves due to giving our opponent half a resolve bar for nothing.

 

I personally find these two issues in particular to make pvp rather shocking as an Assassin when it comes to survival when we use our cooldowns and also makes our "Ambush" when we begin to attack someone, useless.

 

These are simply things I have noticed after many months of pvp on the Assassin and they are complaints I hear from several other Assassin's as well as Shadow's whom are just as passionate about our class and play it very heavily.

 

Our damage isn't what i have an issue with, it is that two of our abilities which should be weighted against other classes are actually very weak by comparison (see above) and I would like to see some changes made to balance our class out just a little. I'm not looking to become broken or made overpowered, but it is an unfair disadvantage to our class(es).

[Prevenge]

There is a reason that people are so upset about the assassin class not receiving any nerfs. Posts like this will just make people even more upset.

 

Sin's will be great in 1.2, but look how many cry posts there are already. You will be getting nerfed, before you receive anything that even looks remotely like a buff.

[Faeldawn]

There is a reason that people are so upset about the assassin class not receiving any nerfs. Posts like this will just make people even more upset.

 

Sin's will be great in 1.2, but look how many cry posts there are already. You will be getting nerfed, before you receive anything that even looks remotely like a buff.

 

Any nerf without a proper balance and a fix kills the class, simple as that.

 

Sins/Shadows only have one pvp effective spec, the other two are sub-par at best in the current chokepoint warzone pvp setting and neither will be optimal for rated WZ premade teams.

 

Im deception, while i love the spec and im not bad at playing it, it's heartbreaking to watch the Kinetic/Darkness and hybrids butcher the class. The worst thing is now ilum is dead im forced into warzones exclusively for pvp, deception and madness are far too squishy to do anything but pick off lame-ducks away from the main focus of the action. Been screwing around with a vengeance and rage spec jugger recently and they are far tougher than my assassin and do pretty much the same or slightly better DPS plus do a staggering amount of AoE damage while my poor lil deception sin has no AoE abilities and the madness sins only really have death field which is pap compared to smash.

 

I would take a tankassin in a premade WZ group, i would not take any other sin/shadow spec as there are far better DPS options most of which have decent utility and better survivability. A dead DPS deals no damage and a DPS who takes too much damage is a liability.

[Alisitcia]

There is a reason that people are so upset about the assassin class not receiving any nerfs. Posts like this will just make people even more upset.

 

Sin's will be great in 1.2, but look how many cry posts there are already. You will be getting nerfed, before you receive anything that even looks remotely like a buff.

 

Actually, Sin's from what I understand at this current point are bugged. Assassin's Training isn't working properly thus is why we've not been touched in any way for 1.2.

 

Saddening as this is to me, we can't really be balanced until the class is actually -working-. While we aren't getting the buff to our shock from it.. what can BioWare do to balance us out.

[Vember]

I've used it and had a Jugger and Mara rip me apart in 1-1 fights, while their defensive cooldowns as dps are *very* strong.

 

 

Juggernaut defensive cooldowns are a joke.

 

Marauders' are ridiculous though, I will give you that.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Vember

[HyperThomas]

I personally think our KC (tank tree) tree needs a slight nerf, and the DPS trees need a great survivability buff.

Everything else with the class seems perfectly balanced.

[Dee-Jay]

Juggernaut defensive cooldowns are a joke.

 

I too was wondering what these "oh so great" defensive CDs were that Juggernauts supposedly have.

 

On another note, considering the current situation, asking for Shadow buffs is a little inappropriate. Ideally all specs should be equally viable but that's a lot to ask from such a young game.

[Alisitcia]

Actually, I'm not so much asking for a buff to the class as much as I'm asking that:

 

We are giving pause to think about if we -should- spike someone, seeing as it's our opening attack from stealth (as non-KC / Darkness aka Tanking Spec) because it is rather.. useless frankly. I know most Sin's / Shadow's worth their salt don't use it for more then a glorified interrupt.

 

As for our Defensive Cooldown, it's just pointless it doesn't really do anything.

 

[edit] Fixed a typo... stupid fingers.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Alisitcia

[LeonkRAV]

sins dont need ANY buffs, sins and juggs are suppose to be reflected classes. both got a dps and tank spec and alt dps spec. But the sin is miles ahead of the jugg. Hell jugs were so screwed that our version of the sin excute required 20% instead of 30%. What was the logic in that?

 

assasinate lvl 32 - requires 30% 2773

vicious throw 46 - requires 30% 3074

 

sins havent been touched b/c they dont need to be touched, all of their presumed underpoweredness, or short commings is due to other classes OPness. Once those are lost the sin wont have those to worry about. You dont buff AND nerf an aspect, either you buff OR nerf.

[Alisitcia]

 

sins havent been touched b/c they dont need to be touched, all of their presumed underpoweredness, or short commings is due to other classes OPness.

 

 

Did you see me complain about my overall class, Leon? I haven't any issue with our damage or the way our class plays. I just want to see, like they have done with the BH / Commando (Tracer / Grav round) that they give us a -reason- to use things. We have no reason at present to Spike someone. Unless I'm (and a few other Sin's and Shadow's I speak with) using it to interrupt a healer, we just don't use it unless we're doing it for a joke. There's just so many better options to attack from stealth with, when it -must- be used from Stealth (with the exception of our tanking spec)

[Theology]

There is a reason that people are so upset about the assassin class not receiving any nerfs. Posts like this will just make people even more upset.

 

Sin's will be great in 1.2, but look how many cry posts there are already. You will be getting nerfed, before you receive anything that even looks remotely like a buff.

 

I thought the same thing about Warriors/Knights, too.

 

GG.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Theology

[Squatdog_nz]

I've used it and had a Jugger and Mara rip me apart in 1-1 fights, while their defensive cooldowns as dps are *very* strong.

 

Uhhhhhhh...what???

 

Unlike Assassins, Juggernauts can't tank spec and still be considered 'DPS'.

[Redmarx]

Uhhhhhhh...what???

 

Unlike Assassins, Juggernauts can't tank spec and still be considered 'DPS'.

 

This.

 

OP is a terribad.

 

Assassins need huge nerfs:

 

- Force shroud removed (deflection is closer to the defensive cooldown operatives get)

- Dark charge gives 50% damage penalty / 100% threat bonus, so they can still tank in PVE

- Force pull removed (operatives have 0 gap closers, why should assassins have 2)

Edited March 31, 2012 by Redmarx

[Tiresias]

This.

 

OP is a terribad.

 

Assassins need huge nerfs:

 

- Force shroud removed (deflection is closer to the defensive cooldown operatives get)

- Dark shroud gives 50% damage penalty / 100% threat bonus, so they can still tank in PVE

- Force pull removed (operatives have 0 gap closers, why should assassins have 2)

 

Hey, let's just spew pure nerfhearding hatred in the thinly-veiled guise of "suggestions"!

 

Kinetic Combat/Darkness is regarded as the absolute WORST PvE tanking spec, for the EXACT SAME reasons that carry over to PvP:

 

-Worthless defensive cooldowns. Deflection does NOTHING against Force/Tech attacks, which are the majority of "big hits" in this game. This is why the original poster doesn't notice a difference in survivability when activating this cooldown -- IT DOESN'T FUNCTION against the vast majority of incoming damage. If Resilience/Force Shroud broke CC effects it could be used as utility, but as it stands you have to read your opponent's mind to figure out when to use it.

 

-Poor single-target damage. ZOMG SHADOZES DO 2 MUCH DMAGE!!!11! No, they do a lot of AoE damage, which inflates their "Total Damage dealt" numbers in Warzones. In reality their single-target damage is in line with what the other tanks can output in similar gear. The reason you see so many Shadows/Assassins running around in DPS gear is because defensive mechanics DO NOT FUNCTION in PvP and the talent trees are not set up to reward shielding or parrying/deflecting attacks.

 

-The worst-scaling "mitigation" mechanic in the game: self-healing. Oh sure, the ability to output a 12% self-heal works GREAT in a 1v1 situation where you can bring all your utility to bear against a single player to ensure they don't interrupt your 3-second channel. However, once you add more players to the mix not only can you not get off that 3-second channel amidst all the CC and physics effects but that 12% heal starts to mean less and less as compared to the incoming damage -- it doesn't scale at all. The Vanguards and Guardians running around with 7-12% more passive mitigation through armor and talents are actually taking 7-12% less damage as the number of attackers increase, whereas that 12% self-heal is still the same 12% regardless of how much of a beating you are taking. The more you need mitigation the worse a Shadow/Assassin performs.

 

-No teleport-to-target effects. Shadows/Assassins are left out in the cold when dealing with Z-axis attacks. They cannot move themselves to the target and Force Pull is ridiculously buggy when dealing with Z-axis movement.

 

 

The problems with Infiltration are even worse:

 

-No burst when coming out of stealth. All the spec has is a low-damage 2-second stun.

 

-Extreme resource starvation issues if the fight lasts longer than 12 seconds -- which is common given the "no burst out of stealth" problem.

 

-The worst passive mitigation of any melee class in the game

 

-The same defensive cooldown problems that Kinetic Combat suffers, exacerbated by a shorter-duration Resilience and a Deflection that doesn't even raise defense chance to over 60% since an Infiltration Shadow won't have any defense rating.

 

-Extremely vulnerable to kiting. At least Scrappers have a few attacks that work out to 30m so they can continue to deal damage if they are getting kited heavily. Once a Shadow is outside of 10m their effectiveness drops to zero.

 

-A reliance on TWO random procs to deal damage: Infiltration Tactics for Shadow Strike and Shadow Technique for energy return and Force Breach. Also, if Shadow Strike doesn't critically hit its damage is very poor.

 

-Terrible utility. A 4-second stun and a 4-second incapacitate is all the spec has for active defensive utility. No healing, no long-duration AoE mezzes, no incoming healing reduction effects, no group-based tricks or buffs. Oh, and Shadows/Assassins have the worst interrupt in the game.

 

I'm not even going to get into the problems with Balance/Madness. Those trees are a total mess, and running them is like playing the game on hard mode.

 

Shadows/Assassins excel at precisely one thing: picking up a 31/0/10 Kinetic Combat/Darkness spec, putting on DPS PvP gear, and killing people in 1v1 fights.

 

I wonder if any of the nerfhearders have given any thought to the fact that Shadows/Assassins are considered to be the worst PvE tank by far?

Edited March 31, 2012 by Tiresias

[Hatham]

This.

 

OP is a terribad.

 

Assassins need huge nerfs:

 

- Force shroud removed (deflection is closer to the defensive cooldown operatives get)

- Dark shroud gives 50% damage penalty / 100% threat bonus, so they can still tank in PVE

- Force pull removed (operatives have 0 gap closers, why should assassins have 2)

 

I know you're trying to get operatives buffed. I agree with you as I have a 50 operative and the class is in a sad, sorry state. This isn't really helping though. I also know you're being intentionally unfair as part of your argument but it makes you look like a fool. At least get the ability name right, it's dark charge.

[VSutra]

Well played OP/Scoundrel are still deadly as with well played infiltration/deception shadows/assassin [1v1].

 

Just a lot harder. Hence why infiltration/deception is not a choice among many. But it is viable still if you take the effort to figure out combat mechanics of other classes, and learn to play in a group dynamic.

 

The only problem here is, against almost all well played other group of specs/classes will probably be in ranked warzone, an infiltration/deception may feel and even perform underpowered. Then again, I haven't tested out 1.2, so there's much to be seen and that last statement may be inaccurate.

[ChaosDogg]

"Typic MMO balance discussion:

 

You play the FotM so I'm just going to ahead and ignore the post, call your point invalid and by the way, you're terrible."

 

He is right though, force deflection is pretty horrible.

[HyperThomas]

This.

 

OP is a terribad.

 

Assassins need huge nerfs:

 

- Force shroud removed (deflection is closer to the defensive cooldown operatives get)

- Dark shroud gives 50% damage penalty / 100% threat bonus, so they can still tank in PVE

- Force pull removed (operatives have 0 gap closers, why should assassins have 2)

 

 

1) Stop comparing them to operatives, sin tanks get nowhere near the amount of burst operatives can. Besides, operative defensive ability is better and on 50%+ faster cooldown.

2) Agree, although 50% reduction is too much. Maybe 20% or 25%.

3) Stop comparing them to operatives, once again tank tree is the only one tree that can use force pull.

 

You are way off the mark here, only assassin tank needs a nerf, and only a slight damage one at that, burst as tank = nowhere near the amount operatives can get, made up in the extra defensive CD, the pull and the 10% more damage reduction.

 

Infiltration needs a massive survivability buff, I see you made no comments on this here.

 

Very misleading post too, you make it seem like the whole class needs a nerf, or you have done this accidentally with your lack of knowledge in the class.

 

Let us compare shadow burst spec to operative burst spec?

-Operative can do more burst damage.

-Operative can stun lock for a massive amount of time. (infiltration shadows can, but nowhere near as long)

-Operative can heal themselves. (infiltration shadows cannot)

-Operative gets a 15 second absorb bubble. (Infiltration gets 12 sec 50% chance to avoid, and a 3 second immunity to force/tech... 15 secs total)

-Operative has 10% extra damage reduction from medium armor (shadow has light)

-Shadow infiltration gets a 2 sec sprint (operative does not)

Now ask yourself which burst spec is better? Pretty obvious to me.

 

Bottom line is, stop comparing a tank class that has decent sustained DPS, with a burst class that can do far more damage in a shorter peroid. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Terribad.

[Squatdog_nz]

Hey, let's just spew pure nerfhearding hatred in the thinly-veiled guise of "suggestions"!

 

Kinetic Combat/Darkness is regarded as the absolute WORST PvE tanking spec, for the EXACT SAME reasons that carry over to PvP:

 

-Worthless defensive cooldowns. Deflection does NOTHING against Force/Tech attacks, which are the majority of "big hits" in this game. This is why the original poster doesn't notice a difference in survivability when activating this cooldown -- IT DOESN'T FUNCTION against the vast majority of incoming damage. If Resilience/Force Shroud broke CC effects it could be used as utility, but as it stands you have to read your opponent's mind to figure out when to use it.

 

-Poor single-target damage. ZOMG SHADOZES DO 2 MUCH DMAGE!!!11! No, they do a lot of AoE damage, which inflates their "Total Damage dealt" numbers in Warzones. In reality their single-target damage is in line with what the other tanks can output in similar gear. The reason you see so many Shadows/Assassins running around in DPS gear is because defensive mechanics DO NOT FUNCTION in PvP and the talent trees are not set up to reward shielding or parrying/deflecting attacks.

 

-The worst-scaling "mitigation" mechanic in the game: self-healing. Oh sure, the ability to output a 12% self-heal works GREAT in a 1v1 situation where you can bring all your utility to bear against a single player to ensure they don't interrupt your 3-second channel. However, once you add more players to the mix not only can you not get off that 3-second channel amidst all the CC and physics effects but that 12% heal starts to mean less and less as compared to the incoming damage -- it doesn't scale at all. The Vanguards and Guardians running around with 7-12% more passive mitigation through armor and talents are actually taking 7-12% less damage as the number of attackers increase, whereas that 12% self-heal is still the same 12% regardless of how much of a beating you are taking. The more you need mitigation the worse a Shadow/Assassin performs.

 

-No teleport-to-target effects. Shadows/Assassins are left out in the cold when dealing with Z-axis attacks. They cannot move themselves to the target and Force Pull is ridiculously buggy when dealing with Z-axis movement.

 

 

The problems with Infiltration are even worse:

 

-No burst when coming out of stealth. All the spec has is a low-damage 2-second stun.

 

-Extreme resource starvation issues if the fight lasts longer than 12 seconds -- which is common given the "no burst out of stealth" problem.

 

-The worst passive mitigation of any melee class in the game

 

-The same defensive cooldown problems that Kinetic Combat suffers, exacerbated by a shorter-duration Resilience and a Deflection that doesn't even raise defense chance to over 60% since an Infiltration Shadow won't have any defense rating.

 

-Extremely vulnerable to kiting. At least Scrappers have a few attacks that work out to 30m so they can continue to deal damage if they are getting kited heavily. Once a Shadow is outside of 10m their effectiveness drops to zero.

 

-A reliance on TWO random procs to deal damage: Infiltration Tactics for Shadow Strike and Shadow Technique for energy return and Force Breach. Also, if Shadow Strike doesn't critically hit its damage is very poor.

 

-Terrible utility. A 4-second stun and a 4-second incapacitate is all the spec has for active defensive utility. No healing, no long-duration AoE mezzes, no incoming healing reduction effects, no group-based tricks or buffs. Oh, and Shadows/Assassins have the worst interrupt in the game.

 

I'm not even going to get into the problems with Balance/Madness. Those trees are a total mess, and running them is like playing the game on hard mode.

 

Shadows/Assassins excel at precisely one thing: picking up a 31/0/10 Kinetic Combat/Darkness spec, putting on DPS PvP gear, and killing people in 1v1 fights.

 

I wonder if any of the nerfhearders have given any thought to the fact that Shadows/Assassins are considered to be the worst PvE tank by far?

 

Oh boy.

 

The BIG difference is that Tanksins have the DPS and versatility of a DPS spec,with the tank of a tank spec.

 

Look at the Juggernaut tanking tree. Virtually EVERY ability is to do with enhancing mitigation, rage efficiency and threat generation. Now look at the Assassin tanking tree and you'll see no less than NINE damage-based skills. Big difference.

 

-Extremely vulnerable to kiting. At least Scrappers have a few attacks that work out to 30m so they can continue to deal damage if they are getting kited heavily. Once a Shadow is outside of 10m their effectiveness drops to zero.

 

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

Assassins have Force Sprint (which removes snares in hybrid tank spec), while Operatives have NOTHING.

 

Once an opponent is outside 10m, they have no way of closing the gap.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Squatdog_nz

[Payneintherear]

Hell jugs were so screwed that our version of the sin excute required 20% instead of 30%. What was the logic in that?

 

Maybe, just maybe, you should compare the range on both abilities.

[Astarica]

If you swapped all the skills in Darkness with Deception and also their requirement (whatever required Surging Charge now requires Dark Charge and vice versa), the new 'Deception' tree would be a perfectly viable DPS tree, and maybe even considerably stronger than the one simply because you get Disjunction now so your survivality is significantly increased. Outside of Disjunction, there really isn't anything that can be considered a must have defensive talent in Darkness, and Disjunction is often used offensively anyway, since getting rid of snares/roots usually equates to more damage done.

 

I really have no idea how anyone is supposed to kite a class that can Force Pull, snare you permanently, and attack from 10m, a range that prevents the use of just about every PBAE ability that creates separation. I don't even use Force Pull most of the time because it's not needed so no need to give the enemy extra resolve. The only way you can 'kite' a Darkness Assassin is by using elevation in Huttball, since Assassins are loathe to use Force Pull to deal with a range on that map since Force Pull is pretty much an instant kill in the right places, but if you annoy someone enough they will definitely pull you down from your hiding spot and then you'd be screwed.

[Astarica]

Maybe, just maybe, you should compare the range on both abilities.

 

In practice, the melee range requirement on Assassinate is irrelevent because Force Speed alone pretty much guaranteeds you can close in melee range. I don't know if this is true with other classes, but Assassinate is also 360, so you don't even have to be facing the guy you're using it on. It's always pretty funny to see people try to go behind you to avoid it and you spin your lightsaber and kill someone behind you.

[Squatdog_nz]

Let us compare shadow burst spec to operative burst spec?

-Operative can do more burst damage.

-Operative can stun lock for a massive amount of time. (infiltration shadows can, but nowhere near as long)

 

Burst damage is Operative's class role.

 

Assassins can still open with a 2sec knockdown (as opposed to 1.5sec) and will frontload WAY more damage outside of the Operative's 5.5sec window of opportunity.

 

-Operative gets a 15 second absorb bubble. (Infiltration gets 12 sec 50% chance to avoid, and a 3 second immunity to force/tech... 15 secs total)

 

LMFAO!!!!

 

This is quite possibly the single dumbest example you could have come up with.

 

A bubble on a 45sec CD which adsorbs MAYBE 2k damage. Yippee.

 

 

-Operative can heal themselves. (infiltration shadows cannot)

 

A massive sub-2k heal off a 2.5sec cast time.

 

LOL!

 

Bottom line is, stop comparing a tank class that has decent sustained DPS, with a burst class that can do far more damage in a shorter peroid. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Except that a tank or hybrid specced Aasassin will have more sustained DPS than an Operative AND far more survivability AND versatility in PVP.

[HyperThomas]

Burst damage is Operative's class role.

 

Assassins can still open with a 2sec knockdown (as opposed to 1.5sec) and will frontload WAY more damage outside of the Operative's 5.5sec window of opportunity.

 

 

LMFAO!!!!

 

This is quite possibly the single dumbest example you could have come up with.

 

A bubble on a 45sec CD which adsorbs MAYBE 2k damage. Yippee.

 

 

 

 

A massive sub-2k heal off a 2.5sec cast time.

 

LOL!

 

 

 

Except that a tank or hybrid specced Aasassin will have more sustained DPS than an Operative AND far more survivability AND versatility in PVP.

 

 

First of all look at the post I was replying to, might make sense why I was comparing the infiltration and op burst specs.

 

Second, don't lie about the burst damage of operative compared to infiltration shadow, operative is simply better both burst and sustained comparatively, shadows have 12 seconds (including cloak) before force drain is so critical that it is impossible to do anything. Also simple fact: shadow burst is less than op. Assassin may have a .5 second longer stun equivalent, but this actually allows ops to stun lock a target without maxing resolve as fast.

 

Third, compared to our defensive cooldown (12 seconds of 50% dodge, on average this is going to save us 2-3k damage, 4k if we are really lucky... it is on a way longer CD) Dumb example? I don't think so. Plus I like how you have conveniently left out my comment about the 10% extra damage reduction gets, simply from armor.

 

Fourth, 2k heal, when compared to shadow getting nothing, GJ you are really intelligent. Thanks for helping me prove my point.

 

Fifth, Who are you to compare a tank spec to a burst spec anyway? NEWSFLASH: They are two different things.

 

And all my other point are valid then? Ok you lose.

 

 

You were canning my comparisons of the burst specs, when in fact I was right, when it comes to burst, op is better than infiltration.

 

Suddenly, out of nowhere, you switch over to my correct comments about the tank spec.

 

You quote me saying the poster cannot compare the tank and burst specs. Then trying to make it look like I was comparing tank and op burst. People can read you know, you should try doing it yourself every now and again.

 

Try again...

[Astarica]

Operatives are quite far behind Tankasins right now but Spike is not one of the reasons. Spike does negligible damage for 30 Force and stuns for 2s, so you use 30 Force and 1 GCD (1.5s) to trade for 2 seconds, which means you're really using 30 Force for a 0.5s advantage. If you want to use 1/3 of your resource pool to gain a 0.5s advantage, feel free to have this skill. If this scales, you can use up all your resources to gain an extra GCD on your opponent, except you'd have no resource left to do anything with that free GCD. Edited March 31, 2012 by Astarica