What's missing in SWtOR? It's called a Grind.

[Akash]

Thank you for calling my post garbage, care to make any arguments?

 

You didn't make any argument, you just posted up opinion. An argument requires support.

 

Personally I don't care for your disregard of MMO veterans that have put in the hours and the money to grow this industry into something other than pong.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Akash

[TheBigDRC]

So...No grind is a bad thing now:rolleyes:

 

Funny isn't it? People don't know what they have until they lose it.

 

Now on-topic, personally I wouldn't mind the grind. I've always viewed MMOs as a type of investment. An entertaining investment, but an investment nonetheless. What I don't want happening is a grind where it burns me out to the point of not wanting to play anymore. I still want it to be fun.

 

I've hit that peak recently with raiding. And daily quests to a lesser extant. Seven years of doing just that has the effect. Go into raid and fight, die, kill the same 6, 8, 12 bosses with the same strategy. Rinse, repeat, do over on a weekly basis.

 

A grind, a fun grind, would be nice. But not a ballbuster grind. Something that's not the same thing time and time again but rather a random, more chaotic one.

 

We all know as gamers, chaos is awesome.

[Thornsbane]

Personally I don't care for your disregard of MMO veterans that have put in the hours and the money to grow this industry into something other than pong.

 

Haha, we should all have a moment of silence and reflection on their great sacrifice.

 

Such selfless unsung heroes.

[SamuraBob_Fl]

The grind is simply a lazy way to milk money from players.

 

Game to short? Require more XP to level than you can get from quests. Make them grind mobs to keep them playing longer.

 

People finishing to quickly? Add flight paths that make them wait 5+ minutes to get from one area to another. Make travel as time consuming as possible.

 

I love how TOR has minimized the grind.

 

Also, games do not need an e-peen factor, that's simply catering to the worst instincts of the anti-social.

Edited March 30, 2012 by SamuraBob_Fl

[ZirusZero]

The grind is simply a lazy way to milk money from players.

 

Game to short? Require more XP to level than you can get from quests. Make them grind mobs to keep them playing longer.

 

People finishing to quickly? Add flight paths that make them wait 5+ minutes to get from one area to another. Make travel as time consuming as possible.

 

I love how TOR has minimized the grind.

 

Also, games to not need an e-peen factor, that's simply catering to the worst instincts of the anti-social.

 

Reminds me of a certain company and game I use to play.

[Shingara]

I wouldnt say the grind is missing in tor, infact i find tor very enjoyable to lvl within compared to other games. That said i feel the xp required to level is way to short of what it should be for the xp we get.

 

Id say that we should have required double the amount of xp it takes now to level so as to make it so we dont outrank ourselves for content be it wanting todo pvp, flashpoints, space combat and the pve + pve bonus areas.

[SamuraBob_Fl]

I wouldnt say the grind is missing in tor, infact i find tor very enjoyable to lvl within compared to other games. That said i feel the xp required to level is way to short of what it should be for the xp we get.

 

Id say that we should have required double the amount of xp it takes now to level so as to make it so we dont outrank ourselves for content be it wanting todo pvp, flashpoints, space combat and the pve + pve bonus areas.

 

I'm somewhat sympathetic to this, and the alt I'm currently leveling is outpacing content pretty well, but it's a dilemma with no easy solution.

 

If you increase the amount to xp you need to level, then you make things a lot harder on people who don't want to PvP or do space or heroic mission.

[RinqualFireburst]

I wouldnt say the grind is missing in tor, infact i find tor very enjoyable to lvl within compared to other games. That said i feel the xp required to level is way to short of what it should be for the xp we get.

 

Id say that we should have required double the amount of xp it takes now to level so as to make it so we dont outrank ourselves for content be it wanting todo pvp, flashpoints, space combat and the pve + pve bonus areas.

 

Agreed, it's way too fast. Especially for a game which lacks endgame content currently. One would think BW would have lengthened the time it takes to get to 50. It was quite simple to get to 50 even with skipping multiple quests and never doing PvP.

Doubling the xp required would have been a good design decision I think.

But then again... this game isn't exactly making a name for itself in the 'good design decisions' category.

[Shingara]

I'm somewhat sympathetic to this, and the alt I'm currently leveling is outpacing content pretty well, but it's a dilemma with no easy solution.

 

If you increase the amount to xp you need to level, then you make things a lot harder on people who don't want to PvP or do space or heroic mission.

 

maybe but the flashpoints would make up for it. How many people you think have bypassed the flashpoints bar esseles until they are 50 because they simply bypass the level required.

 

but yes its too late now to change it to that degree but it should be a thought for future expantions. That is unless they allow people to keep the level they are and just increase the xp required like they did for legacy. there maybe some peeps who cry but the game would be better for it.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Shingara

[Jedlosson]

The grind in games refers to definition "2. Hard dull work". Now of course online games are not hard, as the difficulty is based on time. So a 'grind' is actually a long dull activity in a game. So now you have to ask yourself, why would anyone pay money and ask for long dull activities as their form of entertainment? It is simple, some folks have an abundance of time and the tolerance to perform dull activities repeatedly, but a LOT of folks do not have either. So people ask for more grind because they know realistic people will not do those activities or they will but at a much slower rate, and that is how those people become 'special' or in their mind 'better' than everyone else.

 

One of the reasons I play SWTOR, is because the Devs stated pre-release they will not be putting 'the grind' into their game. So if that is all you want, then this is not the game for you.

 

I totally agree with this post.

[Lokai]

Your wrong its still a grind, a grind is a grind is a grind and can mask it all you like BUT it is still a grind... also just going to say...

 

GRIND IS BAD!

 

yes i said it! to the OP reason seeing less grind in mmos is two fold. First grind was put into older mmos because technology was limited and was only real way to go about it. For example in days of EQ1 was just no technology to create a valid questing system, and thus didn't exist. But into days gaming world the technology exists and so now we have a quest/story centric game, which is imo a GOOD thing!

 

Secondly most people do not like to grind. It isn't fun being forced to run same damned place 20000000000000000000000000 times for that one piece of loot. What TOR has done is taken some of the " randomness " out of PvE and replaced it with badges and addition of loot bags also helps that aspect even more. Thus much of what you consider a " grind " was just sheer randomness which cutting down on. Also go get your valor level for pvp to 60... go on... tell me how many warzones took to reach it because it was reason i left before... got bored with spamming warzones to get valor ranks... it was abysmal!

 

as for difficulty...it isn't so much difficulty being low, as much as most people just know how the game works now. Isn't as big a learning curve because can only do an encounter in hotkey mmos so many ways before its been done before, and we simply adjust to a boss we've fought in another mmo. Fact is... Hotkey mmos are reaching limits of what can be done, and people are just overall conditioned more because been doing it for so long.

 

Kind of like sitting down to play god of war game, and then playing daunte's inferno... you've done all of this before and only so many ways can implement bosses before becomes a " i've done this before" situation. Over all going to say GRIND is bad, in fact i'd say leveling still abysmally slow going... while faster then say WoW i still prefer leveling in DCUO, was quick, fun, enjoyable and never felt like a drag. When you log in to level up and your thinking god... going to take me another week to hit max level so i can gear up... then its no longer fun and enjoyable and thats a key thing!

 

Grinding isn't fun

 

Grinding isn't enjoyable

 

nobody likes to grind!

 

MMO's don't need a grind, just need an end game that makes you want to keep playing it, not for loot, not for rewards BUT because it is FUN! i can safely say i don't play street fighter for nifty rewards...or epeen i play it because its fun! GW2 is going in RIGHT direction with endgame is focused far more or just being enjoyable and trying to make the game " fun " rather then trying to dangle a carrot infront of player and saying " COME get it boy! oh i know it isn't fun! i know you hate this! BUT come get it boy! " because what games like WoW do....and ya know what? is a point where you realize... that carrot isn't worth it and you quit playing...

 

say what you will but for me and countless others we don't want to grind and we simply won't grind...if grind is to bad we go elsewhere.

[VulcanLogic]

With regards to crafting, yes it's easy to hit 400. But it's a good bet you do not have a blue for every green, and probably only 1-2 purples. That's the grind. But at least you can "grind" that while actually doing something else, like PvP, flashpoints, operations, or even your dailies. That's what makes TOR crafting cool.

[Shingara]

With regards to crafting, yes it's easy to hit 400. But it's a good bet you do not have a blue for every green, and probably only 1-2 purples. That's the grind. But at least you can "grind" that while actually doing something else, like PvP, flashpoints, operations, or even your dailies. That's what makes TOR crafting cool.

 

This is one of the things i really like in swtor, i dont have to stand over an anvil for hours watching a castbar until my bags fill up and then vendor everything i just created. Also the fact you arnt quite sure what your going to get from a craft or reverse engineer is quite a buzz too.

[JackalTurner]

What you are wanting isnt grind, its length of leveling. That is not the same as grind.

 

Grind DOES increase leveling time, but it is entirely possible to do the same thing and ALSO keep it interesting.

 

Grind, by definition, is not fun. Thats why its called grind. Its repetative, boring, and just not fun.

 

Put in enough unique content and increase the exp requirements and you have an increased leveling time without grind. That way you spend longer leveling, but you are doing new and exciting things at the same time.

 

 

Doing this is expensive and hard though, so its not gonna happen. SWTOR still has a ton of grind, its just much less so than other games.

[G-Girl]

To me, a big part of grinding is having to do the same thing over and over. So far in my experience of TOR, the most grindy aspect is doing things like repeating Black Talon a tedious number of times to raise my social level to unlock social items I want to get, because I rarely get the opportunity to group with someone long enough otherwise to gain more than negligable social gains.

 

And then there's repeating flashpoints in order to get specific gear, like costume sets. There's no guarantee that even one item from a set you want will drop in any given run through, and even if it does, and its not one you already have, you are still competing with everyone else in the group for it. and if I want to experience any of the actual story content of the game, I'm going to have outleveled the thing after a couple of runs, leaving me with the prospect of waiting until I am high enough to solo it and then rerun it until I get the set or I drop dead from boredom.

 

I really like some of the costume designs.

[Apollonel]

u like to grind? try one of those korean games, like aion.. omg...

 

grind =/= fun

grind = boring

 

 

but i guess it has grind in a smaller scale,

all those points and tokens for gear... yeah..

and same raids over and over.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Apollonel

[HurrDurrCur]

Linage 2, and Aion are thatway ---->

 

 

 

 

Go there Grindboy.

 

 

DONT COME BACK.

[DieAlteHexe]

The grind in games refers to definition "2. Hard dull work". Now of course online games are not hard, as the difficulty is based on time. So a 'grind' is actually a long dull activity in a game. So now you have to ask yourself, why would anyone pay money and ask for long dull activities as their form of entertainment? It is simple, some folks have an abundance of time and the tolerance to perform dull activities repeatedly, but a LOT of folks do not have either. So people ask for more grind because they know realistic people will not do those activities or they will but at a much slower rate, and that is how those people become 'special' or in their mind 'better' than everyone else.

 

One of the reasons I play SWTOR, is because the Devs stated pre-release they will not be putting 'the grind' into their game. So if that is all you want, then this is not the game for you.

 

What he said.

 

EQ cured me of EVER wanting to grind. If I want to do things that are tedious and time consuming...well, there's plenty of that in RL. I'm not about to spend my spare time grinding.

[DieAlteHexe]

What it all boils down to is that there has to be a "epeen" value to any mmo.

 

This is not true for all players.

 

I don't care if Random Guy standing next to me in fleet is a newb with nothing but his skivvies and fights with fisticuffs, or is a maxed out 50 with top gear and a discontinued 1.5 mil speeder sedan. As long as I'm having fun in game, other peoples' stuff (or "accomplishments") matter not.

 

What you mean is any mmo has to have an epeen value to satisfy you.

 

I would be surprised if BW does not add more ways of showing off your gaming prowess, with battle stats/pvp rank listings or something along those lines--probably within this first year. It's one of those things that isn't essential to basic gameplay for launch, but not that difficult to implement in an update.

 

Indeed. I couldn't care less what "you" have and I only care what I have in two ways:

 

1. I am effective at whatever it is I am trying to do in a game and

 

2. I don't look like a complete idiot doing it.

[NoxiousAlby]

Correction............there is most definately grind in this game whether you are grinding valour, pvp commendations, FP for gear, social points,or crafting mats. Grind is evident in most aspects of this game.

 

However what is missing is grinding faction reputation for rewards, faction's would be a nice addition. All the various races that inhabit different worlds could offer faction reputation & rewards.

[DieAlteHexe]

I guess I always defined the "grind" as those times when you run out of quests your level and are forced to mindlessly kill mobs for hours for xp to level. It's the reason that I lost interest in UO, WOW, and other MMO's, and one of the reasons I'm enjoying this one. I hit 50 last night, and haven't even finished belsavis, still lots to do.

 

This was the definition of "grind". Not sure when it morphed into something else.

[TwwIX]

If you like to grind, then i suggest that you go play one of the many Korean boring grindfests that are freely available to you. There's nothing fun about grinding.

 

 

BioWare should be focused on improving the social and co-op aspects of this game instead of listening to people such as this.

[Psych-ward-hero]

The main problem with this game is they are making it so someone who plays 15 minutes a week can have the same gear as someone who plays 5+ hours a week.

 

/agree

 

The more you play the more rewarded you should be. If you do not like that then go play a single player game.

[terminova]

You didn't make any argument, you just posted up opinion. An argument requires support.

 

Personally I don't care for your disregard of MMO veterans that have put in the hours and the money to grow this industry into something other than pong.

 

Just because you don't like what he said doesn't mean it's garbage or invalid. Also, you didn't even make an argument, you were simply rude.

 

The people that have grown this industry into something other than Pong (wrong genre) are not the "MMO veterans", but the MMO game developers who have spent millions of dollars developing games for the gamers to play.

[terminova]

The main problem with this game is they are making it so someone who plays 15 minutes a week can have the same gear as someone who plays 5+ hours a week.

 

So, you don't like that it takes the person playing 15 minutes a week 5 months to get the same item you got in a week? Seriously?