Server population is dropping...

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

It's a different kind of game. We knew that from the start. It really isn't a factor in regard to population issues, though.

 

it is a factor, with server shards there would be no population problems, but TOR locks us down to different servers without any cross server traveling or cross server interaction. It's simply dumb decisions and these kind of low population numbers prove that TOR performs far behind expectations.

[HeavensAgent]

That would explain why EA's stock prices have plummeted from above $20/share when swtor was released to just over $16/share now.

As would its normal pattern of fluctuation over the past 4.5-5 years; EA's stock prices show no discernible variation from the norm since the game's launch.

[HeavensAgent]

it is a factor, with server shards there would be no population problems, but TOR locks us down to different servers without any cross server traveling or cross server interaction. It's simply dumb decisions and these kind of low population numbers prove that TOR performs far behind expectations.

Huh? I didn't say or respond to anything about server sharding.

[Touchbass]

Do you have sources for the numbers you're using? You have no factual basis for them. In other words, you're pulling them out of thin air. I imagine you've based them on various factors that you feel are relevant, but they are in fact fabricated.

 

No I'm not one of the idiots who thought the game was on its way to crushing WoW within the year. I'm not saying my information is any more correct than yours, but it is the impression I get based on my observations over the various servers I play on, some of them now empty, some of them booming, as well as patterns that were known in other games I played at launch and my personal business experience in general.

 

The CEO has stated they have sold over 2 million copies and they hold 1.7 million subscribers at the beginning of March. What more do you want?

Edited April 2, 2012 by Touchbass

[Saint-Exupery]

Why are people arguing about dropping population or not?

Who cares about what was published in Feb?

 

Anyone that has played for the last few months knows, as a fact, that population has dropped considerably.

 

My server went from 150-180 people at the fleet @ pick time, to 20-40....

I'm also sure that the top 4 servers have lost very little in real terms. People is gone, but they were replaced by people the bite the bullet and re-rolled in one of those servers.

[Touchbass]

Ok, here are some sales figures

 

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/

Global Total as of 24th Mar 2012 (units): 2.25m

 

Not sure if that site tracks digital sales

 

Anyways, 1.7million and dropping subs versus 2.25million and increasing sales. Roughly half a million people have left already ... Yikes!

[Nitewolfe]

Ok, here are some sales figures

 

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/

Global Total as of 24th Mar 2012 (units): 2.25m

 

Not sure if that site tracks digital sales

 

Anyways, 1.7million and dropping subs versus 2.25million and increasing sales. Roughly half a million people have left already ... Yikes!

 

Add one more to the list. I have officially hit the button this time and family giving me time or not i will not be re subbing till i see a cross server lfg tool and free transfers.

[Touchbass]

Add one more to the list. I have officially hit the button this time and family giving me time or not i will not be re subbing till i see a cross server lfg tool and free transfers.

 

Make sure you give your reasons as grouping when they ask you, the more accurate data we are giving why are are leaving will help Bioware correct things faster.

[HeavensAgent]

The CEO has stated they have sold over 2 million copies and they hold 1.7 million subscribers at the beginning of March. What more do you want?

Yes, but what about the other numbers? These figures alone are insufficient to illuminate the situation.

[HeavensAgent]

Why are people arguing about dropping population or not?

Who cares about what was published in Feb?

 

Anyone that has played for the last few months knows, as a fact, that population has dropped considerably.

The reason we're debating this is that some don't feel your statement is true. I actually play on servers (more than one) where the population seems to be growing.

[HeavensAgent]

Ok, here are some sales figures

 

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/

Global Total as of 24th Mar 2012 (units): 2.25m

 

Not sure if that site tracks digital sales

 

Anyways, 1.7million and dropping subs versus 2.25million and increasing sales. Roughly half a million people have left already ... Yikes!

Don't use unverified information for the purposes of these arguments; at least show enough respect for the game and its creators to not treat speculative information as fact.

[Touchbass]

Yes, but what about the other numbers? These figures alone are insufficient to illuminate the situation.

 

What other numbers? I've eluded to reports from the CEO from the earning call saying they lost at least 300k thousand subscribers and making reports from the CEO afterwards saying the subscription base hasn't grown while showing you data from third party sales tracking sites.

[Touchbass]

Don't use unverified information for the purposes of these arguments; at least show enough respect for the game and its creators to not treat speculative information as fact.

 

lawl so I've backed you into a corner and proved your claims wrong so you respond with that? Shameful at best. You can't show any proof to back your claims so deny everyones elses. This is all speculative fun and you need to try harder to play with the big boys.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Touchbass

[Incendergel]

Make sure you give your reasons as grouping when they ask you, the more accurate data we are giving why are are leaving will help Bioware correct things faster.

 

Here are my reasons in which case I also followed up via a email for feedback.

 

1. Server populations

2. Shard / instance while leveling - it made the game play like a single player game

3. Faction imbalance - playing republic is tough, low population server is difficult

4. PvP vs. PvE servers - doesn't seem to be any difference - tied to #1 above

5. Did I say single player feel - I didn't see opposing faction until lvl 28 on Alderaan

6. Ilum patch - Imperials valor farmed, no roll-back

7. Ilum client performance and now defunct zone

8. No reason to engage in PvP / Valor rank means nothing currently

9. Valor rank grind now defunct with recent patch, still no incentives

10. War Hero armor only delta color or such with 1.2 - could have coined something else

11. Lack of web portal for valor, rank, weekly, monthly stats

12. Warzones are boring and if started with less than equal numbers generally a loss

13. No penalty for leaving a warzone which increases the chances of a loss to # 12 above

14. Limited space combat - would have been nice to tie in PvP

15. Fleet to ship, to orbital station to another ship to ground ping pong is silly

16. Too many Imperial Sorcs but I'll just say class balance issues are starting to show

17. No feel or sense of any conflict between factions.

 

and lastly....

 

18. No draw to log back in.

 

Let me sum it up this way because this could be a "just me" issue. But back in the day things along the lines of player maps in Unreal would always give me a reason to login. Or something simple as the developers releasing a shadow patch for the hottest graphics card at the time. It was new, cool, and exciting. Playing in low gravity or a map that looked like a bathroom. Point is there was a reason. Then say Diablo and marching through the catacombs for the first time. It was exciting to not know what was around the next corner and/or wall. Further along someone joins the game, asks for that teleport scroll to meet you and you flip hostile....and PK them. With DaOC you hit level 21 and think it is cool to head outside the frontier gate for the best EXP and Coin rewards....only to get a lvl 50 inf unstealth and 1 shot you. Yet you rez up, find your grave, and pray only to go another round...

 

SWTOR just doesn't have that draw anymore after you level up a character. There isn't a sense of war between the republics and imperial forces. Darth Vader isn't a thread. There isn't any large scale battles. Everyone is a Jedi or Sith and there really isn't anything to work on if you will.

 

Honestly - it is sort of anti-climatic now that I think about it. Yeah, great looking game. Great job on voice overs, graphics, and sound. But they really missed the boat when you step back and look at it.

 

Nothing compels you to log back in. We need more cow-bell

Edited April 2, 2012 by Incendergel

[HeavensAgent]

lawl so I've backed you into a corner and proved your claims wrong so you respond with that? Shameful at best. You can't show any proof to back your claims so deny everyones elses. This is all speculative fun and you need to try harder to play with the big boys.

No, but the validity of information that that you use to illustrate your point has long been questioned. If you haven't noticed, I'm not providing any evidence to support my beliefs. As I stated, there's no point in debating this topic without official records. We haven't even been using the same terminology, for goodness sake.

 

You should reread your signature and consider it advice. There's no way for us to know actual numbers, so there's no point in arguing them. I have my beliefs on the subject, and though I admit they may be faulty I do feel they reflect the current state of the game. The same can be said about the beliefs you've voiced.

Edited April 2, 2012 by HeavensAgent

[Frostvein]

The reason we're debating this is that some don't feel your statement is true. I actually play on servers (more than one) where the population seems to be growing.

 

Sure, if you play on one of the reroll servers the population is going to go up considerably.

[HeavensAgent]

Sure, if you play on one of the reroll servers the population is going to go up considerably.

Exactly. Based on my experiences and observations I disagree with what most of the voiced opinions. I play on dead servers as well as reroll servers, and after experiencing both I don't believe the game is losing nearly as many subscriptions as the majority of people on these boards claim.

[Incendergel]

Exactly. Based on my experiences and observations I disagree with what most of the voiced opinions. I play on dead servers as well as reroll servers, and after experiencing both I don't believe the game is losing nearly as many subscriptions as the majority of people on these boards claim.

 

You can't have it both ways. If you play on both then you would know it isn't the same. Let us both be fair here. I mean would you say right now is considered prime time? 8:00 PM PST? Game of Thrones isn't on yet right now on the republic side there are 32 people in the fleet. 32 people.

 

You are correct in that we can't say exactly how many are leaving or taking breaks. No one can but the publisher. But it is also correct to say that there is a issue both in server populations AND faction balance. Both of which impact the subscriber, people who play, enjoyment factor. I mean how many servers are there? Over 100 easy and the only one I see that is "FULL" is fatman.

 

Now - would a quick fix be as simple as removing or disabling the shard / personal instance feature? Would that even help? Or could we just take a look for the next week as to who logs in, when they log in, for how long they are in for, and server capacity and merge some bloody servers.

 

I don't know about you but as I've said, and why I've said it, relocating isn't a option. BioWare should be the ones managing this problem and it should have been done before 1.2 goes live in "my" opinion. 28 people now in the republic side of which 11 are lvl 50. You tell me how you would do anything worth while like a instance let alone do the +10 stat datacron.

 

We can disagree on the finer points but the bottom line remains the same. There is a issue with servers and it is removing the fun from some subscribers. You may not feel it because your server has a better population but that doesn't remove the fact it is happening.

[HeavensAgent]

You can't have it both ways. If you play on both then you would know it isn't the same. Let us both be fair here. I mean would you say right now is considered prime time? 8:00 PM PST? Game of Thrones isn't on yet right now on the republic side there are 32 people in the fleet. 32 people.

I don't understand what you're saying here. I acknowledge that some servers are empty. I play on some. At the same time I feel the actual loss of subscriptions is significantly less than what the majority of the voiced opinions claim. This is a perfectly valid stance; what do you mean I "can't have it both ways"?

 

Note I'm simply going to skip over the paragraphs I agree with or have nothing to add.

 

Now - would a quick fix be as simple as removing or disabling the shard / personal instance feature? Would that even help? Or could we just take a look for the next week as to who logs in, when they log in, for how long they are in for, and server capacity and merge some bloody servers.

I doubt altering the shard/instance functions would have any impact; I honestly don't believe this design structure has much actual influence on things as they currently exist.

[Incendergel]

I don't understand what you're saying here. I acknowledge that some servers are empty. I play on some. At the same time I feel the actual loss of subscriptions is significantly less than what the majority of the voiced opinions claim. This is a perfectly valid stance; what do you mean I "can't have it both ways"?

 

 

I guess my point is simply this. Servers are empty for a reason. And those of us left playing on empty servers are not having as much fun as those of you who are playing on populated. Furthermore, the solution to the problem IS NOT FOR THE SUBSCRIBER to fix, but that of the developer.

 

I said you can't have it both ways by saying you play on low and high populated servers. If you do then you know what the difference is. 32 people in the republic fleet as I noted of which 11 are level 50. Really can't field a 16 man instance now could you? Many reasons not withstanding there are not 16 on. Then factor in the experience differences and gear you see how ugly it gets rather quickly. That was at what, I said 8:00 PM PST?

 

So the issue people are having is the term "significantly less". Empty is empty. Simple math says 1.7 million / 200 servers equates to what, 8500 or so subscribers per server in a perfect and balanced world? Be that as it may, and it isn't perfect nor are we wearing rose colored glasses, we have Dragon Trail with a whopping 32 people during prime time on Sunday night....

 

The debate is over verbiage I guess because empty is empty in my opinion and neither you or I know the actual numbers. We agree there is a issue maybe not the importance I guess.

 

Hope you have a good evening and a pleasant tomorrow.

[HeavensAgent]

I really don't think we're disagreeing on too much, Incendergel. I am very aware of the population disparity among servers; Dragon Trail and other servers like it are truly empty. Yet the populous servers are thriving all hours of the day. It is very much an issue, and though their role in creating the problem was indirect and purely responsive in nature, the developers are the only ones that can truly address it; the developers really don't deserve the blame, but they still have to fix the mess.

 

When I say I don't believe subscription cancellations are as extreme as many believe, I'm not referring to those reporting numbers on their specific servers. I'm talking about the population of subscribers in the game as a whole. I believe the things you've stated about Dragon Trail's population. I've seen the same thing on other servers. That being said, I believe a significant portion of those that are no longer around haven't truly left the game. I think they simply rerolled to another server, and that the number of people actually cancelling their subscriptions is statistically smaller than the average for titles in the industry at this point in their lifespan. I think this last point, that the game as a whole is doing better than it appears to many, is the only thing we truly disagree on.

[Woundnaught]

I think the "lack of end-game content" is what causes the server population to drop. I love this game, but tbh the contents are too short.

[Shredbull]

Chuundar EU is dead... Bloodworthy EU is dead....

 

I moved to Tomb of Freedom Nadd.... great server but had to leave 3 level 50's behind.

 

I hate bioware for not offering server transfers... and I am growing tired of having to level new toons over and over AND OVER again and start the whole gear grind AGAIN.

 

I am NOT having fun in swtor anymore and if the game designers pulled their heads out of their behinds they would notice servers are dying out and that they need to react.

 

Once your best friends quit you don't feel like playing anymore. If the server is simply too empty that is.

 

Some people dont have the time or willpower to level another toon to 50, go through all the gear gaps again, get owned for weeks and weeks. It's not worth it.

 

Bioware needs to act quickly and introduce transfers because frankly i dont give a crap about cross server pvp if I cant be friends with anyone. I rather play an FPS game if I wanted random players in random games.

 

The new mmorpgs are releasing soon, we all know the names, and if bioware doesnt adress the issue of all the servers being LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT at PEAK times then the virus will spread and continue to make servers die.

 

Stop wanting those subscriptions to continue and start to work towards making the players happy, then the subs will come themselves bioware....

[Runeshard]

Chuundar EU is dead... Bloodworthy EU is dead....

 

I moved to Tomb of Freedom Nadd.... great server but had to leave 3 level 50's behind.

 

I hate bioware for not offering server transfers... and I am growing tired of having to level new toons over and over AND OVER again and start the whole gear grind AGAIN.

 

I am NOT having fun in swtor anymore and if the game designers pulled their heads out of their behinds they would notice servers are dying out and that they need to react.

 

Once your best friends quit you don't feel like playing anymore. If the server is simply too empty that is.

 

Some people dont have the time or willpower to level another toon to 50, go through all the gear gaps again, get owned for weeks and weeks. It's not worth it.

 

Bioware needs to act quickly and introduce transfers because frankly i dont give a crap about cross server pvp if I cant be friends with anyone. I rather play an FPS game if I wanted random players in random games.

 

The new mmorpgs are releasing soon, we all know the names, and if bioware doesnt adress the issue of all the servers being LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT at PEAK times then the virus will spread and continue to make servers die.

 

Stop wanting those subscriptions to continue and start to work towards making the players happy, then the subs will come themselves bioware....

 

Apparently Server transfers are to be implemented sometime after the mid of April, maybe in May. That's what I've heard at least.

[zwhimsicalz]

Apparently Server transfers are to be implemented sometime after the mid of April, maybe in May. That's what I've heard at least.

 

What does it matter when most of them are dead....?