Jugger....NOT.

[Eommer]

I dont know nothing about this changes. Im just worry if bioware will invalidate the dps spec for jugg. I mean, you still can use but they are sooo bad compare with the others dps classes that most Juggs will be forced to play as tanks to do something decent. I mean, if they nerf the dps spec really bad will be better leave the dps role for classes that actually can do dps right? I hope they dont take that away. So far, Im happy with my rage spec.

 

/worry

Edited March 26, 2012 by Eommer

[GorillaJ]

You will not be happy with Jugg changes in 1.2. By all apparent counts, no one at Bioware has ever played a Juggernaut or spoken with someone who has. For awhile, pre-patch notes, we heard they were buffing us and thought they understood, but then..

 

Well, nerf our AoE taunt, nerf our AoE threat, buff our single-target threat which we never had problems with anyway due to the way Taunt mechanics work. Every problem we still have remains, and we remain the inferior tank option and DPS option in any given scenario.

 

Honestly, at this point I'd prefer they just not touch Juggs instead of continually tweaking them to be worse.

[Eommer]

You will not be happy with Jugg changes in 1.2. By all apparent counts, no one at Bioware has ever played a Juggernaut or spoken with someone who has. For awhile, pre-patch notes, we heard they were buffing us and thought they understood, but then..

 

Well, nerf our AoE taunt, nerf our AoE threat, buff our single-target threat which we never had problems with anyway due to the way Taunt mechanics work. Every problem we still have remains, and we remain the inferior tank option and DPS option in any given scenario.

 

Honestly, at this point I'd prefer they just not touch Juggs instead of continually tweaking them to be worse.

 

more worry

[Xtrema]

OP - check our brethren Guardian forums for a bunch of them breaking 600k:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=324185

 

Serious guys, anyone have more details about this nerf?

Im kind worry, rage spec here.

 

details here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=368063

 

 

Tanks classes always feel entitled to it all. It's really disgusting. The OP is quoting ridiculous damage numbers of other classes and crying that he cant hit 900k! Amazing.

 

Why do ppl think we have 3 tank trees?

Edited March 26, 2012 by Xtrema

[furiousferret]

Our asssassin tank spec did 400 k damage and 200 k protection on Voidstar; by far the most impressive stat line I've seen in a game.

 

 

As for Juggs, we can do 300k fairly easily, If I do less than 250 it's a bad game. I think our dps is fine but too much of a one trick pony. Good players can avoid most of our damage.

[Elyx]

more worry

 

MOst of the change impact PvP solely. the impact to PvE is still hotly debated (i.e. there are people on both sides). but the impact to PvP is pretty straightforward.

 

1) talent changes make it difficult for most PvP Players to run the specs they are used to.

 

2) the passive stun on leap (the one sole gap closer for PvP Jugg's) adds resolve to the opponent, essentially shooting yourself in the foot for wanting to get closer to that sorc that just unloaded lighting zapper on you.

 

While I personally am not a PvP player, I can easily see how the changes impact Pvp negatively. But just remember that its mostly PvP impacting. PvE actuall benefits from many of the changes, though many are still on the fence about the tanking adjustements. i think were were for the most part just expecting a bit more. It's obvious from their general changes (looking at more then just my jugg) that they want healing in general, and AoE abilities controlled more and used less. Just about every class got some nerf in the form of healing or AoE reduction.

[lordofdamornin]

I have to disagree, having played as a Vengeance Juggernaut for the past 3 months in the 50 WZs almost daily.

 

I'm Raeder on Port Nowhere btw.

 

I routinely hit 300k damage, and my personal best was 450k with 75k protection just by using taunts.

 

I usually play solo, but when I have a healer you should fear me.

 

Most Juggs don't know the trick to Endure Pain, which is why they are squishy.

 

The nerf to Rage, and the Crash nerf in 1.2 is stupid, but what are you gonna do? I will be leveling up a Marauder soon, but will stick with my Juggernaut.

 

Hello, Raeder. I think I might have run a WZ or two with you in the past week or so.

 

Riôt

[Mordeguy]

OP you know nothing about assassins. If a tank is getting 400k damage its because he has an amazing team keeping him alive in the thick of things. What ranged moves do they have? You mean the 10m moves? They aren't exactly snipers, assassins have to stay on their target. Juggs have moves they can can use at medium ranges too. Like I said any tanksin doing that much with any sort of consistency is obviously in a premade with a very organized and well played group.

 

If you can't get over 250k damage done you are doing something seriously wrong.

 

I was getting ~200k per WZ at level FORTY. That's without all the talents I even need for a smash build. My damage was much less than level 50 and yet I still broke 200k easy many many times. If you can't break 250k in BM gear you need to adjust your play style. It should be almost effortless. 250-300k is good for any dps in a given warzone if they are actually helping with objectives, but if you try for more damage as a rage jugg and can't get over that I don't know what to tell you

Edited March 27, 2012 by Mordeguy

[Rutrict]

The raiding guild I am in has two Juggernauts, I am one of them. As tanking goes my guild leader says I lack no skill but our class is just not as good as a tank as Assassin or BH. The two Juggs were asked to go DPS because of this. I find this incredibly depressing with a name on my class as Juggernaut.. not to mention Immortal tree spec. It's so nerve racking that Assassins make a better tank when I am in Heavy Rakatta gear and they're in lighter ( not light ) armor. It's very disheartening that we're being nerfed as a class in general. I'm just over unhappy about this, I honestly expected leveling a Juggernaut tank to be one of the better tank classes in the game...

[GorillaJ]

Your guild leader is silly. You're not as good, but you're good enough. You can youtube videos of nightmare modes being cleared with Juggernaut tanks.

[SintLuciferNL]

@OP

 

I play a immo jugg with just centrurion gear and some champion pieces.

I do alway's 200k+ damage.

 

as with tanking in PVE we don't see many difference between our jugg and assassin.

[Schwarzwald]

Got War Hero on my Jugg today. Mostly battle master. Most DPS in a match I've ever gotten is 250k. Assassins routinely get 400k, sometimes 500k and I've seen 750k. And they're tanks.... so why can't a Juggernaut get that? I don't understand why an Assassin can tank and dish out the damage so well ... and CLOAK... and Juggs can get 250k damage IF they've got a pocket healer and all the best gear... COME ON.

 

Yes, I have one high damage move .. a smash bomb. I have to build up to it. And if, as usually happens, I hit smash right when I get knocked away, my only high damage special did abosolutely nothing... but restart the timer, and I just lost my 4 stacks of shockwave I have to build up.

 

I'm starting to wonder if BIOWARE purposefully nerfed Juggs because so many players said they were going to play them before launch. All I know is, Juggs are not feared on the battlefield. (IM TALKING PVP, THAT'S ALL I DO) Sages/Sorcs... yea, they're considered a threat. Smugglers/Operatives.. can really own your face..., Mercs can dish out damage and heal... Juggs meh... they die rather quickly without a healer.... and they don't hit that hard...

 

Buff Juggs.

 

http://i.imgur.com/H258X.jpg

 

Try harder son

[Alizaro]

Let me give you a hand here Heko, not because I like ya because there's people in that guild I do.

 

Relics. Get the ones with power, make a macro that clicks on both. Bm one with 380 and one of the others with 350ish. Loop it if you can't remember to click it, you'll have a ton more power 2/3's of the time. Use the rakata might packs, if you don't have it as a crafting profession, get it.

 

Smash after charge instantly, don't let em see you there winding up your smash, let it go. When choking, look where the people are grouped and have them targeted for the charge before the choke ends, pop adrenals and relics before the choke, charge smash.

 

Buy the officer dps hands with your champ coms, swap out anything with accuracy with the enhancements containing surge and power.

 

Obliterate also gives a damage increase if you don't have time to run off and wind up a charge.

 

I've gotten 420s and 450's in pugs, It is doable.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Alizaro

[noodlehaus]

http://i.imgur.com/H258X.jpg

 

Try harder son

 

noticed that you're screenshot shows you being Rage spec'd. what happened to the ultimate PvP immortal spec?

[Schwarzwald]

noticed that you're screenshot shows you being Rage spec'd. what happened to the ultimate PvP immortal spec?

 

sometimes you just gotta smear people with rage

 

Also its a style I like, but I'm waiting for 1.2 to see how the new itemization and spec options work out.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Cavad]

I have to disagree, having played as a Vengeance Juggernaut for the past 3 months in the 50 WZs almost daily.

 

I'm Raeder on Port Nowhere btw.

 

I routinely hit 300k damage, and my personal best was 450k with 75k protection just by using taunts.

 

I usually play solo, but when I have a healer you should fear me.

 

Most Juggs don't know the trick to Endure Pain, which is why they are squishy.

 

The nerf to Rage, and the Crash nerf in 1.2 is stupid, but what are you gonna do? I will be leveling up a Marauder soon, but will stick with my Juggernaut.

 

 

 

If you've been playing 50 WZs for the last 3 months daily like you said, I'm willing to bet you're at least partially BM geared. If you're in that kind of gear any dps spec in the game should be able to break 300 consistently. However if you take your hands and put them behind a keyboard with a rage spec your 300 games would be 450s and your personal best would have touched at least 500 . Seriously, I'm getting 200k+ games on my 24 sentinel, 300k is on the lower end for someone with gear like yours. Again, thats not your fault, but the class'.

 

 

Honestly, give rage a try for a week and see what your numbers are (and if you still feel like veng doesn't need some help).

 

 

 

Honestly vengeance needs SOMETHING, even making shatter independent of sunder so target swapping (See getting kited with nothing you can do about it) isn't punished as hard.

 

 

 

P.S BW making you use consumables to allow endure pain work like it should is stupid. Buff. Vengeance.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Cavad

[schrankage]

http://i.imgur.com/H258X.jpg

 

Try harder son

 

i've never been in a match where total healing for my team was about 1.5 mil. I'm thinking each server playstyle is different and each match is different. If you and your team were very well geared and the other team or the majority of the other factions SIDE was undergeared I could see you being able to put out huge numbers. On my server each side has about the same amount of gear/valor rank.

 

So far all the screenshots with high damage juggs fights have all been so totally one sided, it's obvious the opposing team had no gear... and the faction imbalance means you're probably getting 8 man premades versus pugs.

Edited March 27, 2012 by schrankage

[Goretzu]

i've never been in a match where total healing for my team was about 1.5 mil. I'm thinking each server playstyle is different and each match is different. If you and your team were very well geared and the other team or the majority of the other factions SIDE was undergeared I could see you being able to put out huge numbers. On my server each side has about the same amount of gear/valor rank.

 

So far all the screenshots with high damage juggs fights have all been so totally one sided, it's obvious the opposing team had no gear... and the faction imbalance means you're probably getting 8 man premades versus pugs.

 

 

 

People always claim rolling PuGs is somehow "balanced"...... right up until rated warzones appear...... then they disappear.

[unclekaula]

I did check on this last night, but my new computer has been screenshotting everything with just a completely black image. Not sure whats up with that, but I found this on my old computer, so this was in cent/champ when I just turned 50. Looks like it was a stalemate and we lost the toss,

 

http://imgur.com/AQLt8

 

If you check around, I think you'll see that 300k+ pugs with no heals and 400/100k with heals is quite common. I mean really, why would we be lying?

[Nemmar]

Got War Hero on my Jugg today. Mostly battle master. Most DPS in a match I've ever gotten is 250k. Assassins routinely get 400k, sometimes 500k and I've seen 750k. And they're tanks.... so why can't a Juggernaut get that? I don't understand why an Assassin can tank and dish out the damage so well ... and CLOAK... and Juggs can get 250k damage IF they've got a pocket healer and all the best gear... COME ON.

 

Yes, I have one high damage move .. a smash bomb. I have to build up to it. And if, as usually happens, I hit smash right when I get knocked away, my only high damage special did abosolutely nothing... but restart the timer, and I just lost my 4 stacks of shockwave I have to build up.

 

I'm starting to wonder if BIOWARE purposefully nerfed Juggs because so many players said they were going to play them before launch. All I know is, Juggs are not feared on the battlefield. (IM TALKING PVP, THAT'S ALL I DO) Sages/Sorcs... yea, they're considered a threat. Smugglers/Operatives.. can really own your face..., Mercs can dish out damage and heal... Juggs meh... they die rather quickly without a healer.... and they don't hit that hard...

 

Buff Juggs.

 

While it might be true DPS buffs are in need, the fact is the data you present is not representative. Theres also Many PvP variables that make it possible.

 

First, assassins stealth and have high damage openers. They can pop their trinket whole in stealth before they unload their backstabs.

As a warrior, you have to charge in, build up rage and tank everyone hitting you as you start unloading.

 

Second, i play vengece juggernaut and i did above 300k in a single WZ. I see sorcs and BH's doing 400k a few times though, but i gather its related to AoE.

 

I never noticed assassins much, but in theory i agree that all should be able to output the same.

[Fallerup]

Got War Hero on my Jugg today. Mostly battle master. Most DPS in a match I've ever gotten is 250k. Assassins routinely get 400k, sometimes 500k and I've seen 750k. And they're tanks.... so why can't a Juggernaut get that? I don't understand why an Assassin can tank and dish out the damage so well ... and CLOAK... and Juggs can get 250k damage IF they've got a pocket healer and all the best gear... COME ON.

 

I can tell you right now that this is BS... I play darkness assassin with dps gear and I do not get those numbers. I also do not reach those 8+ medals without a pocket healer. those assassins that reach those numbers, play deception (this is an assumpton). If there was such a Darkness assassin, he would have to wear full BM dps gear and it would have to be Voidstar that last the whole time (none of the teams reach the core) or a tight CW or a Huttball where none of the teams cared about the ball.

[Glorthox]

I really think the warrior has always been the red headed step child of all mmo's. For some reason game designers add them for an extra character slot or something and no more. I have yet to see a warrior that actually lives up to it's name. Dps warriors seem to do fairly well as far as dmg goes, however the juggernaut has always seem to be lacking. When I hit 50 the first time and got all the best upgrades that didnt require pvp or FP's, I still didnt feel like a tank, I die too easily because a tank hinges way too much on having a healer. Ive seen assassins with the same gear and have higher health, so im guessing that having a warrior tank is just like all the rest of the games out there.

[Scinald]

Unfortunately the OP's use of hyperbole has completely hosed this topic, since it is true that as tanks go Powertech > Assassin > Juggernaut. In DPS mode with a healer, (Rage) Jugg > Assassin > PT. And in DPS mode in a PUG....in general....PT > Jugg == Assassin.

 

I also don't know what the answer is to make Juggs/JK better, although from what I've read it is probably not what they are doing. Quite frankly, I'm beginning to get the feeling that the Juggernaut/JK is to SWTOR what the Swordmaster was to WAR....the tank class they could never balance correctly and every time they tried to fix it they screwed it up more.

 

We'll see when the stuff goes live. Fortunately I have a Sentinel in the wings who is almost 50 now.

[VinUnleaded]

War hero armor is released?

I thought that was in Patch 1.2 next week?

Also, as far as Rage Juggers are concerned ever notice our priority stat of power is always minus compared to what u are already wearing?

For example, i am wearing Champ and all the BM stuff is minus power!

[Morsexy]

A lot of posts make me shake my head.