Does an MMO need a story?

[ZORG]

Some people claim this to be the case, still it's usual for a lot of players to come back when a major update is released, in order to see if they like it better this time around. People aren't as unforgiving as you make them out to be, they are just hard to please, rightly or wrongly.

 

Well not for 1.2 but I imagine a HUGE add campain for when the CLASS stories are expanded. THAT is when the MAJOR changes will occur and not before cause with that EXPANSION will likely be a total overhaul of the game engine.

 

Remember WINDOWS 8 is comming out Q4 this year. I suspect the game will require a directx 11 client then.

 

Has anyone considered WIN8 looming release is why they arent investing in major game engine changes only to have to do it again in 8 months cause of all the new PCs people buy for holidays.

[oursacrifice]

You haven't played anything other than WoW correct?

 

WoW has by far the most brain dead crafting system I've ever seen. At least here you have to concern yourself if your minions like you or not. The sad part of your post and so many others here is that you think that boring, easy, Skinner box is the pinnacle of MMOs.

 

It's a cartoon that gives you pretty clothes for following predetermined scripts. And like every other loot grinding game, has broken PvP.

 

This is very funny.

 

First you dismiss the crafting system used by one game, calling it "brain dead", then you applaud one used in another even though they're virtually identical. In both games, you open a "crafting window" then click a button, then wait for the results. The main difference being, one game pushes you to utilize the community for some of your crafting materials and the other allows you to be self-reliant.

[oursacrifice]

Well not for 1.2 but I imagine a HUGE add campain for when the CLASS stories are expanded. THAT is when the MAJOR changes will occur and not before cause with that EXPANSION will likely be a total overhaul of the game engine.

 

Remember WINDOWS 8 is comming out Q4 this year. I suspect the game will require a directx 11 client then.

 

Has anyone considered WIN8 looming release is why they arent investing in major game engine changes only to have to do it again in 8 months cause of all the new PCs people buy for holidays.

 

You're foolish if you actually think Bioware is sitting on their hands waiting for an OS update to release. SWTOR is what it is. The engine is what it is. If the game is actually a long-term success players might see them doing something similar to what Blizzard did with WoW and release engine updates via expansions. But that's far down the road for this young product.

[Runeshard]

Perhaps but its not a good business model and its certainly not fun for server's regular players when the game's population is entirely dependent upon when the next patch comes out.

 

That's a game killer and its a path toward the eventual and horrifying free to play existence.

 

We shall see. it all depends on how many of the players that come back decide to stay and how many new players decide to do the same.

 

I've pointed out an improvement to the social points system in terms of modable medium and heavy armor being added. Reading your posts it's almost as if you're trying to twist this into a bad thing or simply toot the old "it's all too late"-horn. Either way I can't say I agree with you.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Runeshard

[Runeshard]

Well not for 1.2 but I imagine a HUGE add campain for when the CLASS stories are expanded. THAT is when the MAJOR changes will occur and not before cause with that EXPANSION will likely be a total overhaul of the game engine.

 

Remember WINDOWS 8 is comming out Q4 this year. I suspect the game will require a directx 11 client then.

 

Has anyone considered WIN8 looming release is why they arent investing in major game engine changes only to have to do it again in 8 months cause of all the new PCs people buy for holidays.

 

We'll see, I think 1.2 will be big enough to bring back a considerable group of players, not as many as the class stories being expanded but still nothing to scoff at.

[Master-Nala]

This is very funny.

 

First you dismiss the crafting system used by one game, calling it "brain dead", then you applaud one used in another even though they're virtually identical. In both games, you open a "crafting window" then click a button, then wait for the results. The main difference being, one game pushes you to utilize the community for some of your crafting materials and the other allows you to be self-reliant.

 

I didn't say one was better I said one was marginally more involved. In the few weeks I was able to tolerate WoW, I never had to do anything other than gather materials and push a button. Hell, you can't even fail. It's all automatic.

 

If you guys hate SWTOR so much why can you just take your ball and go home. Why do you have to infect these forums with your self-important venom. WoW is still running. Go play it if you like it better. There are literally hundreds of MMOs on the market. Something there has to fit your fancy.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Master-Nala

[Cormey]

Skipping fact that it's just another "I quit" disguised as discussion...

 

Does MMO need story:

No, there are plenty of those without any, even in quests.

 

Does any game need story:

Aside from adventure games, where whole point is to tell story, no, you can even make game that will pass as RPG that don't have story.

 

Does game need graphics:

No, lot of good games didn't have those and did just fine.

 

Does MMORPG need clases, crafting, endgame?

As above, no, there were ones that did just fine without them.

 

Does MMO need LFG, Arenas, or pandas?

I know of only one where players can't imagine life without them, so also no.

 

 

But then

Does Elder Scrolls game need Argonians? Does FPS need shooting? Does game advertised by cute alien pigs need cute alien pigs? Does story based MMO by BioWare need story?

Absolutely.

 

If I didn't want story in my MMO, i would go play something else.

 

I agree with this. No these things aren't always necessary, but yes, in some instances they are.

 

It's nice to have a little variety in the genre. It allows more people overall the chance to enjoy it.

[Hotbox]

I think 1.2 will be make or break for SWTOR.

 

If people think its a step in the right direction, it will be a long term viable game. If its not people will get discouraged and thats when a game begins the death spiral I've seen all too often before.

[oursacrifice]

I didn't say one was better I said one was marginally more involved. In the few weeks I was able to tolerate WoW, I never had to do anything other than gather materials and push a button. Hell, you can't even fail. It's all automatic.

 

If you guys hate SWTOR so much why can you just take your ball and go home. Why do you have to infect these forums with your self-important venom. WoW is still running. Go play it if you like it better. There are literally hundreds of MMOs on the market. Something there has to fit your fancy.

 

My post was venomous? Can you point out what I said that was hateful/spiteful?

[Rayla_Felana]

To the OP, I wouldn't be playing the game if it didn't have story.

[Master-Nala]

I think 1.2 will be make or break for SWTOR.

 

 

 

There's no such thing as a 'make or break' patch. MMORPGs go through constant churn. People come and go. Some of these same people whining will be back a year or so. This game would have to lose more than 70% of it's 1.7 million subs to stop making money. As they recoup development costs, it becomes even less likely for the game to fail.

 

There's a reason these games run for years on inertia.

[Hotbox]

Personally, I think this thread has some good discussion without fanbois or haters in it.

 

That's where the good advice comes from-- gamers who look at it objectively rather than point out glaring flaws and say "I quit"

 

For instance the space game is a blast at first, but then you find the advanced missions are just the basic missions with more crap to shoot at. Nothing wrong with pointing out those flaws-- that's where development people can read it and say 'wow we missed that one, lets fix it'

[Hotbox]

There's no such thing as a 'make or break' patch. MMORPGs go through constant churn. People come and go. Some of these same people whining will be back a year or so. This game would have to lose more than 70% of it's 1.7 million subs to stop making money. As they recoup development costs, it becomes even less likely for the game to fail.

 

There's a reason these games run for years on inertia.

 

I disagree.

 

MMO's can go two ways-- one toward's WOW's godlike behemoth astride the gaming world or down the death path to free to play. IMHO there isn't a f2p game out there worth a toot, because if ti were they could charge for it. EVE right now is somewhere in the middle. Pirates of the Burning Sea and Star Trek Online are examples of great games gone horribly wrong.

 

What you call inertia, I call hanging on.

[Gokkus]

Personally, I think this thread has some good discussion without fanbois or haters in it.

 

That's where the good advice comes from-- gamers who look at it objectively rather than point out glaring flaws and say "I quit"

 

For instance the space game is a blast at first, but then you find the advanced missions are just the basic missions with more crap to shoot at. Nothing wrong with pointing out those flaws-- that's where development people can read it and say 'wow we missed that one, lets fix it'

 

Despite the OP's efforts to make this into a hate thread I agree with you, it turned out a lot better than I thought. Making a thread saying 'I told you the game would fail' while it hasnt...it doesnt get more silly than that.

 

Anyway, no a MMO does not need story. But it makes this game SO much better. Like I stated before, this is the first MMO where I am not busy leveling.

[Runeshard]

Despite the OP's efforts to make this into a hate thread I agree with you, it turned out a lot better than I thought. Making a thread saying 'I told you the game would fail' while it hasnt...it doesnt get more silly than that.

 

Anyway, no a MMO does not need story. But it makes this game SO much better. Like I stated before, this is the first MMO where I am not busy leveling.

 

Seconded

[AKfourtyseven]

 

Anyway, no a MMO does not need story. But it makes this game SO much better. Like I stated before, this is the first MMO where I am not busy leveling.

 

A MMO doesnt need a story, it needs a reason to keep playing it rather than putting it down. Continuing story can do that. Grind can do that. Sandbox allowing players to create their own content can do that.

 

The issue this game has it the strong story element that makes 1-49(50) so great comes to an abrupt halt at 50.

 

What this game needs urgently is further story at level 50 because the lack of it exposes the other areas in the game which happen to be its weakest.

Edited March 25, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[AsheraII]

Sadly today/tomorrow is going to be a very dark time in the life of SWTOR as a huge amount of subs will be due, these are the people who got into the game just before launch.

 

We are three months down the road and it's fair to say it's been a total disaster for Bioware and EA. The more experienced gamers like myself predicted this back in December with uncanny accuracy http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=89529 but am not here to gloat.

 

I just think that this whole game is a great example of what a well oiled PR machine is capable of doing. Now that the game has been played and reviewed it's clear that the PR hype was a load of rubbish as usual.

 

So why has it failed then?

 

I get a shivver when I think of how amazing this game could have been if the voice and story telling budget had been spent on actual gameplay. It's the story that has killed this game as an MMO, it just cost too much of the budget. That money could have funded so much more MMOness to the game such as LFG tools, more warzones, better planets, no server instancing, more flashpoints, guild banks, beter space combat, smooth gameplay without ability delays, the list could go on and on.

 

I played WOW for 6 years and have no idea who any of the NPC characters are except that I know Thrall is leader of the Orcs and some woman is leader of Undercity, that is all I know. You see in a good MMO you can make your own stories up if you are provided with the tools, WOW gave me the tools: A thriving world, great world pvp (I could attack anywhere with my guild and have a chance), it had cross server pvp, LFG tools, excellent crafting...it had IMMERSION!

 

My first ever computer game adventure was called twin kingdom valley, it was a basic text adventure, then I got lords of Midnight and played it for years It had no moving graphics at all but the gameplay was amazing, games back then had to have good gameplay. I think game designers now focus far to much on story, gloss and other asthetics and forget about having fun. Hopefully this games failure will be the kick up the arse the gaming industry needs.

WoW is an mmo.

TOR is an mmoRPG.

WoW has zero context, just loads of pop culture references and borrowed themes.

TOR is ALL ABOUT CONTEXT.

[Affics]

Simply, yes.

[Gankdalf_]

In WOW we had a medium size guild that ran no Dungeons at all unless it was an easy BC one to get a certain item. Our main thrust for 6 years was having fun in Azeroth, taking over Alliance towns, or blocking off dungeons killing any raid that tried to enter (before you could teleport to dungeons). We also if we had the numbers took over an entire zone, killing anyone that tried to quest. The end result in all the behaviour was a huge battle as more of the enemy arrived to liberate what we had taken.

 

Now you can say what you like but this was us making our own adventures, the hours of fun we had was great. We did not care who thrall was or who whats his face lightbringer was, we were living in Azeroth and making it all up as we went along. Blizzard allowed us to do this by making a world that was alive and kicking.

 

Dungeons, quests or anything against NPC's is predictable, easy and very boring, which is why we never really did it after we levelled up.

 

40 of us fighting to hold on to a enemy town, fighting against multiple guilds, sending runners back to Org to plead with other guild leaders to send us reinforcements was an amazing time. This is immersion and only in WOW and Rift have I been able to do this kind of stuff.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Gankdalf_

[Duhakalock]

There's no such thing as a 'make or break' patch. MMORPGs go through constant churn. People come and go. Some of these same people whining will be back a year or so. This game would have to lose more than 70% of it's 1.7 million subs to stop making money. As they recoup development costs, it becomes even less likely for the game to fail.

 

There's a reason these games run for years on inertia.

 

 

The VO is a great addition to mmo. Gw2 is doing their spin on it as well. Tera, who has basic questing Is...... Z.z.z. Sorry, just fell asleep thinking of when I played Tera.

[FourTwent]

The reality, OP, is that you have no idea what an MMO is. I am sure you and your WoWbuddies have conquered every last raid you could get your hands on, but that doesn't make you an authority on MMOs...it just makes you another shortsighted consumer with an opinion.

 

SWTOR actually has provided so much more than recent MMOs have in terms of ACTUALLY being an MMO...but you guys wouldn't realize it because you have been busy playing a VERY small part of the MMO experience and calling in the whole. That and pretending you were the next Alexander the Great every time you beat a raid.

 

I am pretty sure everyone who thinks like you could leave this game permanently and it would still make money for Bioware and EA. Unfortunately I am sure we will be subjected to many, many more posts by self informed "pros" like yourself, who believe their fishbowl view of gaming is the only valid perspective.

 

well said

[thominoh]

My personal opinion is.. I love having the storyline that Bioware as placed in the game.. However, on alts it's overdone and not needed.. Do we really need to repeat the same general quest for the sake of getting better exp and rewards? That I don't like, and wish that Bio gave us a sandbox alternative.. When I play my alts, I don't want to ride the same theme park train I just road twice already.. Give me the freedom to choose MY path without penalty..

 

If my alt wants to play Mr Vigilante Jedi by farming whoever I want, whenever I want.. I should without feeling as if I sacrificed exp and rewards for skipping "quest"..

[Esquire]

A MMO doesnt need a story, it needs a reason to keep playing it rather than putting it down. Continuing story can do that. Grind can do that. Sandbox allowing players to create their own content can do that.

 

The issue this game has it the strong story element that makes 1-49(50) so great comes to an abrupt halt at 50.

 

What this game needs urgently is further story at level 50 because the lack of it exposes the other areas in the game which happen to be its weakest.

 

While I /agree with almost all of what you said, it would seem that an MMO, post EQ and WoW, needs a story to be a sucess. There was a free beta for a game called Dawntide where the developers thought to re-create UO in all it's glory. In the free beta, you couldn't even find enough players to form a group on just 1 server and the players who did come in left rather quickly. You just can't have a sandbox with no community as was found with SWG as well. It seems the day of the "sandbox" purist games are now over. Sad, but probably true.

 

However, I /agree with you 110% that themeparks seem to have an end like a console game. Developers would be smart to include some of those "sandbox" elements at end game to create player retention and not just have to feed story, at a very fast pace, to keep some assemblence of subscriptions. Even Bliz can not get content out fast enough as I see this with my adult son who re-subs for the latest expansion, blows thru the content that took devs months and even as much as a year to create, in less than a months sub and then unsubs until the next one. STO couldn't keep up with the unsatiable appetite of players and it cost them large in sub counts and eventualy an NGE, of sorts, to a F2P game which ruined most of the game for lifetime subs like myself.

 

A good mix (sandbox and themepark) at end-game would probably work for all the different playstyles. And allow devs some time to keep pumping out the content to surfice for those players that need this type of development.

[Rogozhi]

My experience in SWTOR thus far has been of the same caliber as playing Dragon Age or Neverwinter Nights. The story is good enough that I would play it as a single player game. Games like WoW, Rift, Aion, WAR, or all the other MMORPGs out there don't even some close. It would be like comparing Good Night Moon to Slaughter House Five. Not comparable.

 

Of course those games don't strive for story. They strive to appeal to a group we used to call Monty Haul players back in D&D days: players that just want to min/max there characters and kill stuff. For those players we will soon have Diablo 3 and GW2, so no matter what BW did they wouldn't be sticking around.

 

Instead BW is going to be stuck with all those Star Wars and KOTOR fans that play casually. You know, those people who will takes months, instead of 2 weeks, to burn through the current content. The ones playing 6-12 hours a week, instead of a day.

 

I've been telling people about the game and one interesting thing they've been asking is if they need to group all the time or if they can play it solo. A whole lot of people are turned off by a game that requires you to schedule your play time.

 

Lastly, if the game is dying could you please explain this: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/03/blizzard-producer-attributes-drop-in-wow-subscriptions-to-star-wars-the-old-republic.ars?clicked=related_right

[Darka]

Does a MMO need story?

This was asked time and time again pre launch, and the same results will always apply.

For those who are not interested in story a MMO will never need it, for those who are interested the story will be a great addition.