Gankdalf_ Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Sadly today/tomorrow is going to be a very dark time in the life of SWTOR as a huge amount of subs will be due, these are the people who got into the game just before launch. We are three months down the road and it's fair to say it's been a total disaster for Bioware and EA. The more experienced gamers like myself predicted this back in December with uncanny accuracy http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=89529 but am not here to gloat. I just think that this whole game is a great example of what a well oiled PR machine is capable of doing. Now that the game has been played and reviewed it's clear that the PR hype was a load of rubbish as usual. So why has it failed then? I get a shivver when I think of how amazing this game could have been if the voice and story telling budget had been spent on actual gameplay. It's the story that has killed this game as an MMO, it just cost too much of the budget. That money could have funded so much more MMOness to the game such as LFG tools, more warzones, better planets, no server instancing, more flashpoints, guild banks, beter space combat, smooth gameplay without ability delays, the list could go on and on. I played WOW for 6 years and have no idea who any of the NPC characters are except that I know Thrall is leader of the Orcs and some woman is leader of Undercity, that is all I know. You see in a good MMO you can make your own stories up if you are provided with the tools, WOW gave me the tools: A thriving world, great world pvp (I could attack anywhere with my guild and have a chance), it had cross server pvp, LFG tools, excellent crafting...it had IMMERSION! My first ever computer game adventure was called twin kingdom valley, it was a basic text adventure, then I got lords of Midnight and played it for years It had no moving graphics at all but the gameplay was amazing, games back then had to have good gameplay. I think game designers now focus far to much on story, gloss and other asthetics and forget about having fun. Hopefully this games failure will be the kick up the arse the gaming industry needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidatwood Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One mans trash is another man's treasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criosdh Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I have to admit the voice acting sucked me in the first 2-3 times through each zone. I don't know if the VO was worth all the money they spent but it did have it's appeal. However this game does suffer from 1000s of people playing their single player KotOR together syndrome. IMO the lack of MMO'ishness is why so many MMOs are failing lately. That and people have lost faith in the industry period because of drastic changes to the games after they have released. MMO players in order to invest themselves for years in the way that they did DAoC, EQ, UO, AC, etc must have stability. They must have some assurance that the game they like will remain the game they like. Too often we see games completely revamp everything from crafting to PvsP/etc and this kind of instability and drastic change causes people to leave whether they agree with the changes or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithy Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) I find the opposite, WoW has 0 immersion and is just stuffed animals running around to me. The kind of immersion you're talking about I've only found in sandboxes like, *dont hit me* ORIGINAL SWG and while I've never played it, EVE. edited for clarity on SWG Edited March 25, 2012 by Lithy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roechacca Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I find the opposite, WoW has 0 immersion and is just stuffed animals running around to me. The kind of immersion you're talking about I've only found in sandboxes like, *dont hit me* SWG and while I've never played it, EVE. I miss SWG. Can I wear my rose tinted glasses now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancrizans Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The reality, OP, is that you have no idea what an MMO is. I am sure you and your WoWbuddies have conquered every last raid you could get your hands on, but that doesn't make you an authority on MMOs...it just makes you another shortsighted consumer with an opinion. SWTOR actually has provided so much more than recent MMOs have in terms of ACTUALLY being an MMO...but you guys wouldn't realize it because you have been busy playing a VERY small part of the MMO experience and calling in the whole. That and pretending you were the next Alexander the Great every time you beat a raid. I am pretty sure everyone who thinks like you could leave this game permanently and it would still make money for Bioware and EA. Unfortunately I am sure we will be subjected to many, many more posts by self informed "pros" like yourself, who believe their fishbowl view of gaming is the only valid perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickshor Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The reality, OP, is that you have no idea what an MMO is. I am sure you and your WoWbuddies have conquered every last raid you could get your hands on, but that doesn't make you an authority on MMOs...it just makes you another shortsighted consumer with an opinion. SWTOR actually has provided so much more than recent MMOs have in terms of ACTUALLY being an MMO...but you guys wouldn't realize it because you have been busy playing a VERY small part of the MMO experience and calling in the whole. That and pretending you were the next Alexander the Great every time you beat a raid. I am pretty sure everyone who thinks like you could leave this game permanently and it would still make money for Bioware and EA. Unfortunately I am sure we will be subjected to many, many more posts by self informed "pros" like yourself, who believe their fishbowl view of gaming is the only valid perspective. ^^^ nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faeldawn Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I miss SWG. Can I wear my rose tinted glasses now? Isn't that the truth, buggy, broken and beyond repair but still an amazing game. I hate running round Tatooine sometimes in ToR as i can't help wishing i could scan for Aluminium or go check on my wind farm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_Rho Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) SWTOR actually has provided so much more than recent MMOs have in terms of ACTUALLY being an MMO. And I'm going to challenge you... you claim much more than recent MMOs have in terms of actually being an MMO. So which part of TOR is more MMO than any MMO currently on the market? You're examples should stand you well if that's the case.... but we all know there are none, because this really is a SPG with tacted on MMO elements, and poorly done at that. Edited March 25, 2012 by LexiCazam Rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastetest Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) very true they went overboard with the voiceacting, most of it just was not needed, but to say that the game is "total disaster" because of it is just silly, nevermind how the world will end tomorrow or today, give me break if the game is so bad why are you still here? very sad i would rather be playing a game i enjoyed than spending time bashing a game i didnt. Kids today what are you going to do, notice i said kid not gamer Edited March 25, 2012 by Tastetest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaselle Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Deleted Edited March 25, 2012 by dlaselle Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalyk Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 SWTOR actually has provided so much more than recent MMOs have in terms of ACTUALLY being an MMO... So what exactly has SWTOR added to the Massively Multi-player Online genre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazzer Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I'm taking the other stance to the OP, game manufacturers shouldn't try to cater for both types of player. This game is a story based MMORPG, they should have dropped the instanced PvP and Ops, placed them in the context of the story and made the game for one type of play style. Let other MMOs cater for another type of play style. In my opinion what's killing this is the fact they they are trying to please everyone. Choose your play style, select your player base and cater for them. Let those who do not like the game's direction go somewhere else. I'm getting fed up with the fact that every MMO is the same in the play style it caters for, take a step back and make each one for a niche play style, you will get less players but also less schisms in player opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaselle Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) And I'm going to challenge you... you claim much more than recent MMOs have in terms of actually being an MMO. So which part of TOR is more MMO than any MMO currently on the market? You're examples should stand you well if that's the case.... but we all know there are none, because this really is a SPG with tacted on MMO elements, and poorly done at that. I think TOR is more of an MMO then wow. Even in its prime Wow was nothing more then pointless questing. "Stop the Orcs or humans from stealing my cows" type of story. The only change to this was Wrath of the Lich King expansion, which was very heavy story driven, but Cat stopped that part of it. Rift: A decent game, but rift is a hardcore Endgame MMO. With cross server LFG, there is no sense of community. People join a dungeon, and then drop as soon as the piece of loot drops. Need any more? Edited March 25, 2012 by LexiCazam Rude - quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dymor Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 What are you talking about, WoW is the quintessential linear hand-held Themepark MMO and i don't think you understand what immersion means. If you want a sandbox where you forge your own story then go play EvE online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 What are you talking about, WoW is the quintessential linear hand-held Themepark MMO and i don't think you understand what immersion means. If you want a sandbox where you forge your own story then go play EvE online. This. Couldn't have put it better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I think TOR is more of an MMO then wow. Even in its prime Wow was nothing more then pointless questing. "Stop the Orcs or humans from stealing my cows" type of story. The only change to this was Wrath of the Lich King expansion, which was very heavy story driven, but Cat stopped that part of it. Rift: A decent game, but rift is a hardcore Endgame MMO. With cross server LFG, there is no sense of community. People join a dungeon, and then drop as soon as the piece of loot drops. Need any more? Instead here people can't group at all how is that any better? To answer the OP's question. No. Vast majority of MMO players only care about the gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyphoonMidget Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) I love the smell of forum arguing in the morning............reminds me of cow **** Edited March 25, 2012 by LexiCazam Avoiding the filter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRINnBARRETT Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 No offense but if you played wow for 6 years & don't know who Sylvanas is, then you didn't really play WoW; you just mashed buttons. This gives me the impression that anything more than a duck shoot goes over your head & you're unable to appreciate any other form of art for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_Rho Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I think TOR is more of an MMO then wow. Even in its prime Wow was nothing more then pointless questing. "Stop the Orcs or humans from stealing my cows" type of story. The only change to this was Wrath of the Lich King expansion, which was very heavy story driven, but Cat stopped that part of it. Rift: A decent game, but rift is a hardcore Endgame MMO. With cross server LFG, there is no sense of community. People join a dungeon, and then drop as soon as the piece of loot drops. Need any more? You're grasping at very paltry straws and have provided no real basis for anything you've said. Both games you've mentioned have more MMO elements than TOR. I don't need your personal opinion. What we're looking for here is the truth which you'll find, you're light years from. Give me a list of the MMO elements from TOR that make it more an MMO than any on the market currently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 No offense but if you played wow for 6 years & don't know who Sylvanas is, then you didn't really play WoW; you just mashed buttons. This gives me the impression that anything more than a duck shoot goes over your head & you're unable to appreciate any other form of art for what it is. Yea I have no clue who that is either, and I still play the game off and on. You actually read the quests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rzacron Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Does an MMO need a story? In hindsight? nope, it was ok the first time around, but I'll never level an alt thats for sure... I just want to create my own story, do world PVP and socialise in the Star Wars universe, craft my own wears (Properly) and customise my appearance. I'd play SWG, in which I could do this to my hearts content, but oh yea, they shut that down to make way for SWtOR. Edited March 25, 2012 by Rzacron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazzer Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Make a cross server LFG tool, add the ability to select all flashpoints and Ops from your pull down menu just like you can for Warzones, place all of the commendations merchants in the same pull down menu. Welcome to Unreal Tournament with a 3d waiting room known as "fleet" or "my ship". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnestoPerez Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It depends. If they pretend to sell it to me then it sure must have a good story. If they have a different target audience then they don't need a story. There are tons of MMOs without a good story and not too many with a good one. There is an eager and large audience waiting for good stories in MMOs. Aiming for them is good business decission. And it has paid of with a large initial subscription. Mantaining it will be the hard part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavindathar Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Yes. /end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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