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Does an MMO need a story?


Gankdalf_

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I just can't tolerate WoW after SWTOR, even beta testing two of the hot new MMO's that are coming out I'm good for maybe a half hour then it's back to TOR.

 

As far as a dark time..everyone I know has re-subbed.

 

The doom sayers keep talking about how everyone will leave TOR month after month after month after month :rolleyes:

Edited by Jett-Rinn
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That is such a load of bullcrap. There is no way you can do that unless you play this game to the point of where it no longer healthy. Judging by your attitude you have surpased that point many moons ago.

 

I started playing two days ago and I can find a group no problem.

 

Maybe it's just you.

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The reality, OP, is that you have no idea what an MMO is. I am sure you and your WoWbuddies have conquered every last raid you could get your hands on, but that doesn't make you an authority on MMOs...it just makes you another shortsighted consumer with an opinion.

 

SWTOR actually has provided so much more than recent MMOs have in terms of ACTUALLY being an MMO...but you guys wouldn't realize it because you have been busy playing a VERY small part of the MMO experience and calling in the whole. That and pretending you were the next Alexander the Great every time you beat a raid.

 

I am pretty sure everyone who thinks like you could leave this game permanently and it would still make money for Bioware and EA. Unfortunately I am sure we will be subjected to many, many more posts by self informed "pros" like yourself, who believe their fishbowl view of gaming is the only valid perspective.

 

Not to interupt, but would mind elaborating on what SWTOR so much more of? Because, I still haven't found it yet? Not trying to be sarcastic but maybe there is something I am missing but other than fps, raids, dailies, there's not much else.

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The reality, OP, is that you have no idea what an MMO is. I am sure you and your WoWbuddies have conquered every last raid you could get your hands on.... you have been busy playing a VERY small part of the MMO experience and calling in the whole.
You need to cut these guys some slack. Raiding is an important part of an MMO, simply because you have to be in an MMO to raid. This leads raiders to assume that MMOs are about raiding.

 

Soloing and grouping can be done in many solo games (many that have multiplayer options). Raiders are stuck with whatever MMOs have to offer. But you are right that raiding has become simply a part of the MMO experience, in which only some of the players will participate.

 

MMOs can be about a number of things. That's the point of them being "massively" multiplayer. It can include raiding, PVP, grouping, soloing, crafting and whatever else you can think of under an umbrella of a persistent world.

 

The story that every character goes through helps to tie the various worlds together in a logical whole and helps to place your character in that universe in relation to other characters, both friendly and enemy.

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One mans trash is another man's treasure.

 

 

Yes. This game will not fail because there will always be dorks who love SW and the whole genre. BW will always have that to fall back on so it doesn't really matter how badly they **** up the game lolz.

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Isn't that the truth, buggy, broken and beyond repair but still an amazing game.

 

I hate running round Tatooine sometimes in ToR as i can't help wishing i could scan for Aluminium or go check on my wind farm :(

 

so true. Tat on SWG was a habitable place, you could have your moisture farm if you wanted it.

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Like many others have said, I put my vote on SWG (I'm including Pre-Cu, Cu, & NGE because all 3 versions still had all those sandbox elements that made SWG so different from other MMOs; however, Pre-Cu had the most extensive features & realism) and even Eve being the most immersive MMO's I've ever played. Although I resent Eve for causing my Laptop's hard drive to fail and now the laptop is pretty much dead. :(

 

I have to admit the voice acting sucked me in the first 2-3 times through each zone.

 

I don't know if the VO was worth all the money they spent but it did have it's appeal.

 

However this game does suffer from 1000s of people playing their single player KotOR together syndrome.

 

IMO the lack of MMO'ishness is why so many MMOs are failing lately. That and people have lost faith in the industry period because of drastic changes to the games after they have released.

 

MMO players in order to invest themselves for years in the way that they did DAoC, EQ, UO, AC, etc must have stability. They must have some assurance that the game they like will remain the game they like. Too often we see games completely revamp everything from crafting to PvsP/etc and this kind of instability and drastic change causes people to leave whether they agree with the changes or not.

 

To really even say that, one must define what an MMO is or what the elements of an MMO are.

Edited by Saromus
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For me MMO's do not need to lead the players through the story as much as have it provide a back drop.

 

I would much prefer if a game company would create a living breathing world where events simply occurred over time to which the character could choose to act in.

 

The backstory should provide the environment; help define the key NPCs; set the mood and general timeline/history. However the events should not be static for a living breathing world.

 

Ideally a major player city could come under siege in January. This results in rampages of varying levels of NPCS. Sporadic waves throw themselves at city gaurds are designed to be engaged by low level players; higher areas could come under magic assault and blcok your access to merchants until dealt with. The higher level you are the easier it would be to fight your way deeper into the main camp of the opposition.

 

Your story would be different based upon your perception; however each level should have objectives to help with the story. Certain quests at each rank/level should be unlocked to result in a event transition. Eventually, after the level 10s kill the summoning shamans/field sargeants; the level 20's have taken key fortifications and keeps; the level 30s have destroyed the siegworks; the level 40s have secured the enemy's keep and the level 50's have quested to find a weapon or device to neutralize the archvillains power; THEN he may be defeated and transition to the next "backstory" event.

 

Make beasts in the field follow patterns like the old ultima days where they prey upon one another and have some form of migration rather than mindlessly standing around in spawn spots for characters to kill.

 

Give me an NPC that doesn't stand idly by when a pack of his bretheren are dying to a playercharacter group in a crescendo of explosions, lightning flashes and screams of dying. Instead of them either fight, hold or flee their position. Fighting means sounding the alarm and mustering into bigger groups; holding their position means placing static defenses; shields, mines, wards or summoning guardians, etc. Fleeing means activating barriers, shields, pit traps but regrouping to make the next area harder.

 

There are so many challenges that game developers should try to overcome that would simply revolutionize the industry that have been ignored.

 

However, nothing sets the tone of the game than having rich lore and backstory.

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Yay for us then. Dunno why people play games based on things they do not even like.

 

They love to complain it seems.

SWTOR has it's faults(some bugs, no dungeon finder,Illum T.T etc), but it's the best mmorpg I have ever played and I played a lot of them.

WoW - was cool. I love warcraft universe, but now I would never come back to it after SWTOR.

Rift - I think I enjoyed it more then WoW, but it didn't hold me too long.

Final Fantasy XI - good times, good times, but nah. I would not come back to a game which forces me to group to about 80% of content.

Final Fantasy XIV - oh lol never again until they fix it. I heard the game still feels like a chore.

+ much more free crap.

 

From more recent mmos I was greatly disappointed by Tera. I bought 5 euro preorder to test it in weekend tests.

As far as combat is very nice and graphics are outstanding(I love them. They remind me of Final Fantasy games) the questing, areas and mobs are boring as hell. Questing - generic grinder. Areas and mobs in it... the models repeat again, again and again until you have enough of it. Even the BAMs they advertise so much repeat :/ I didn't reach max beta level, but PvP was kinda fun with all the blocking and dodging.... I heard it's more fun at much higher levels(40+) as you have more skills, but I would not have the patience to reach it.

 

All other MMOs feel so generic compared to epic experience SWTOR provides....

You can say you get bored at lvl 50, but I am not bored in anyway. Started on new RP serv now. I play solo, in group, RP a bit and pvp. I didn't have so much fun in any other mmo.

Edited by MelodicSixNine
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I'm eating a whole plate of humble pie at the moment cus I had written the game off. But then I decided to take more note of the story and not play my usual character. So I went Jedi Knight but this time tried to be as evil as I could, And now my character face has changed and I am really appreciating the whole dark side thing. I can't believe to be honest just how different it all feels and the responses from the NPCs and my companion are really cleverly customised to suit the negative and hostile way I am playing. I really kinda feel sad for my character and the companion just puts up with the insults and tries to be as friendly as possible. Some of the end scenes to story quests are really tragic and you just get to hate your character. In the end though you can see where it all is leading and the way I'm gonna get there is fascinating.

 

So hats off to the creators. I am truly sorry for bashing your game. I have subbed for another three months and I guess I just should have had a bit of faith. It really is a very good game, but I guess like a lot of things its different, and maybe that was my problem and not the games problem. Anyway I better go cus my character will be screaming and yelling wanting to know where I've been. :) Haven't had this much fun in a real long time.

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I never really paid much attention to the story plot in WOW, but then the whole Night Elf in a bikini was something I never really got, which is odd because I typically play shims.

 

Really though, all the orcs, sword and sorcery backstory was a big bore for me compared to Star Wars.

 

I would always go back to WOW in between other MMO's , grind out my toons and gear them up in moderate level epics and then bored silly again and unsubscribe. The hamster in the flywheel loot whoring never really interested me and over the years I watch my guild transform from a hardcore PVP guild to a lot of 'loot whore with blinders on' type of players. They're nice guys and all, but the feel and flavor of the guild has radically changed over the years to match the games they played.

 

Not complaining, but that's how it is now. They are much more story centered than I am. I like to focus on player driven story arcs, which is why SWG fascinated me so much.

 

No NPC story arc was going to fascinate me as much as the drama between guilds and factions in a sandbox game. It isn't even close. You see, in SWTOR, like most story arc/quest based MMO's I know exactly whats going to happen every time I log in. It's some dailies, some raids and my PVP Bg's dailies and then log off.

 

Sandbox and non story arc driven games have a different feel. You log onto Vent and they're people yammering about who did what to whom at what city and how were we going to respond to that attack etc. That's all missing from games like WOW and SWTOR. Planets like Ilum are just a big farting farm for valor. PVP is a matter of who gets force yanked into the mob. In WOW its a big yawn when I hear the Night elves are hitting Crossroads again-- and even that is happening less frequently. Mainly this is due to pressure from the PVE crowd who want blissfully uninterrupted questing, even on a PVP server.

 

So no, I don't believe a story arc is necessary, not when you have had a taste of player driven story arcs-- not in a game where everything is a big grindfest to the next loot item or gearscore. It doesn't matter if Sylvanis is sleeping with the Lich King, or if Darth Baras is the darth du jour you have to kill today. It's all about the loot now, since if you aren't geared properly you won't be allowed in the raid.

 

Sue me if you don't agree.

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I never really paid much attention to the story plot in WOW, but then the whole Night Elf in a bikini was something I never really got, which is odd because I typically play shims.

 

Really though, all the orcs, sword and sorcery backstory was a big bore for me compared to Star Wars.

 

I would always go back to WOW in between other MMO's , grind out my toons and gear them up in moderate level epics and then bored silly again and unsubscribe. The hamster in the flywheel loot whoring never really interested me and over the years I watch my guild transform from a hardcore PVP guild to a lot of 'loot whore with blinders on' type of players. They're nice guys and all, but the feel and flavor of the guild has radically changed over the years to match the games they played.

 

Not complaining, but that's how it is now. They are much more story centered than I am. I like to focus on player driven story arcs, which is why SWG fascinated me so much.

 

No NPC story arc was going to fascinate me as much as the drama between guilds and factions in a sandbox game. It isn't even close. You see, in SWTOR, like most story arc/quest based MMO's I know exactly whats going to happen every time I log in. It's some dailies, some raids and my PVP Bg's dailies and then log off.

 

Sandbox and non story arc driven games have a different feel. You log onto Vent and they're people yammering about who did what to whom at what city and how were we going to respond to that attack etc. That's all missing from games like WOW and SWTOR. Planets like Ilum are just a big farting farm for valor. PVP is a matter of who gets force yanked into the mob. In WOW its a big yawn when I hear the Night elves are hitting Crossroads again-- and even that is happening less frequently. Mainly this is due to pressure from the PVE crowd who want blissfully uninterrupted questing, even on a PVP server.

 

So no, I don't believe a story arc is necessary, not when you have had a taste of player driven story arcs-- not in a game where everything is a big grindfest to the next loot item or gearscore. It doesn't matter if Sylvanis is sleeping with the Lich King, or if Darth Baras is the darth du jour you have to kill today. It's all about the loot now, since if you aren't geared properly you won't be allowed in the raid.

 

Sue me if you don't agree.

 

Wow perfect post. I didnt play SWG but I did play Ultima Online.

 

Nothing compares to the storys and the fun that is a sandbox. The gear treadmil model needs to be reworked and revamped. Give us the theme park stuff but also add in everything SWG/UO had and you will have a game that NEVER gets boring. You would NEVER be able to get bored because there would justb e too much for one player to do :).

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I never really paid much attention to the story plot in WOW, but then the whole Night Elf in a bikini was something I never really got, which is odd because I typically play shims.

 

Really though, all the orcs, sword and sorcery backstory was a big bore for me compared to Star Wars.

 

I would always go back to WOW in between other MMO's , grind out my toons and gear them up in moderate level epics and then bored silly again and unsubscribe. The hamster in the flywheel loot whoring never really interested me and over the years I watch my guild transform from a hardcore PVP guild to a lot of 'loot whore with blinders on' type of players. They're nice guys and all, but the feel and flavor of the guild has radically changed over the years to match the games they played.

 

Not complaining, but that's how it is now. They are much more story centered than I am. I like to focus on player driven story arcs, which is why SWG fascinated me so much.

 

No NPC story arc was going to fascinate me as much as the drama between guilds and factions in a sandbox game. It isn't even close. You see, in SWTOR, like most story arc/quest based MMO's I know exactly whats going to happen every time I log in. It's some dailies, some raids and my PVP Bg's dailies and then log off.

 

Sandbox and non story arc driven games have a different feel. You log onto Vent and they're people yammering about who did what to whom at what city and how were we going to respond to that attack etc. That's all missing from games like WOW and SWTOR. Planets like Ilum are just a big farting farm for valor. PVP is a matter of who gets force yanked into the mob. In WOW its a big yawn when I hear the Night elves are hitting Crossroads again-- and even that is happening less frequently. Mainly this is due to pressure from the PVE crowd who want blissfully uninterrupted questing, even on a PVP server.

 

So no, I don't believe a story arc is necessary, not when you have had a taste of player driven story arcs-- not in a game where everything is a big grindfest to the next loot item or gearscore. It doesn't matter if Sylvanis is sleeping with the Lich King, or if Darth Baras is the darth du jour you have to kill today. It's all about the loot now, since if you aren't geared properly you won't be allowed in the raid.

 

Sue me if you don't agree.

 

i played SWG myself and while i liked certains things, like houseing, custom class combos and the like. i missed the eason why am i leveling. you can be a farmer and havea house at lvl 1 and never have to fight, or if you wanted max levels and being lazy, be a dancer marcos alot fo move and go watch a moive. haveing a pourpose to why you try to do somethign goes along way, if only a frame work. i had a guild city on tat(pain to ride around some days) crafted some high end armors and weapons with a fencer/smuggler(spliced my weapons to insane levels) i madea persona for him(doing so in SWTOR also while staying my stroy line) but fi no one else aplying with my stroy line it make waht i'm doing mote.

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It's hard to feel relevant in a game where your supposed important decisions really are just light and dark points that change the color of your lightsaber without any real or imagined consequence.

 

Without consequence, there can be no greatness, and no matter how many mobs they throw at you in order for you to feel heroic, in the end, heroism is not defined by issues of a matter of a few days or work.

 

Even in a game.

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I guess we'll ultimately find out in a week or so once numbers filter in. the hilarity is the OP proclaiming victory before the information is out. Methinks the OP had some "uber" statement he made as a "prophecy" early on, and is now attempting in vain hope to act like it "came true" before the real numbers are out in hopes that he can save a shred of that useless thing that most people refer to as an "ego".

 

I'm not going to say one way or the other, because frankly my personal satisfaction with myself does not rely on looking like I am something I am not. But I for one am remaining with the game. I've been playing MMO's for close to 10 years, been on and off the progression raiding scene at various times in my life...just about seen and done most of it. And I like this game.

 

I'm glad that the OP can see that this game isn't what he wants. the humor arises that he thinks he can know what I want. you sir need to take a reality check and step back from your virtual fantasy world. sounds like you depend on it a bit too much.

 

Either that or your simply a troll. I wonder about that...but I'll at least give you the respect of assuming your being honest about yourself.

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What a bunch of unsubstantiated b.s. You state an unsubstantiated premise (failure) as a fact, and then proceed to base your argument off of that. Horrible rhetorical fallacy.

 

I also find it amusing that you then try to bring in a previous post as if this is somehow evidence of your claims. Again, another rhetorical fallacy.

 

I weep for the education system. I truly do.

 

I base my claims on fact and the facts are as follows. Star Wars is the largest film licence out there and to make an MMO with a £200 million budget (or whatever it was) on it is like the ultimate MMO. It should be thriving with new servers having to be opened on a regular bases, like in err what's that game called...hmm oh yeah WOW. Now three months down the line well over half the playing population have all left the game.

 

Oh wait are you one of the people that believe the PR BS that is spewed out by EA every month? I guess you are, no wonder your post was so delusional. How about you forget what people are quoting and simply log into a handful of servers on Sunday evening at peak time and see how empty the game has become.

 

So I restate my case, this game has been a huge failure, it got 1.7 million box sales due to all the hype and the fact that Star Wars is a AAA title, you should know that even if you have a limited education. Loads left during the free month but many more like myself had a 60 day timecard, they expire today, this is why I predicted a mass exodus over the next few days, I will be right.

Edited by Gankdalf_
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I never really paid much attention to the story plot in WOW, but then the whole Night Elf in a bikini was something I never really got, which is odd because I typically play shims.

 

Really though, all the orcs, sword and sorcery backstory was a big bore for me compared to Star Wars.

 

I would always go back to WOW in between other MMO's , grind out my toons and gear them up in moderate level epics and then bored silly again and unsubscribe. The hamster in the flywheel loot whoring never really interested me and over the years I watch my guild transform from a hardcore PVP guild to a lot of 'loot whore with blinders on' type of players. They're nice guys and all, but the feel and flavor of the guild has radically changed over the years to match the games they played.

 

Not complaining, but that's how it is now. They are much more story centered than I am. I like to focus on player driven story arcs, which is why SWG fascinated me so much.

 

No NPC story arc was going to fascinate me as much as the drama between guilds and factions in a sandbox game. It isn't even close. You see, in SWTOR, like most story arc/quest based MMO's I know exactly whats going to happen every time I log in. It's some dailies, some raids and my PVP Bg's dailies and then log off.

 

Sandbox and non story arc driven games have a different feel. You log onto Vent and they're people yammering about who did what to whom at what city and how were we going to respond to that attack etc. That's all missing from games like WOW and SWTOR. Planets like Ilum are just a big farting farm for valor. PVP is a matter of who gets force yanked into the mob. In WOW its a big yawn when I hear the Night elves are hitting Crossroads again-- and even that is happening less frequently. Mainly this is due to pressure from the PVE crowd who want blissfully uninterrupted questing, even on a PVP server.

 

So no, I don't believe a story arc is necessary, not when you have had a taste of player driven story arcs-- not in a game where everything is a big grindfest to the next loot item or gearscore. It doesn't matter if Sylvanis is sleeping with the Lich King, or if Darth Baras is the darth du jour you have to kill today. It's all about the loot now, since if you aren't geared properly you won't be allowed in the raid.

 

Sue me if you don't agree.

 

I actually agree totally that the PvE game is all about loot. It's all about chasing that gear carrot, the primal urge to get the best gear possible. WoW has brainwashed them so badly, that when SW:TOR tries to introduce story into the game, they brush it aside as "kill 15 boars with cutscenes".

 

Why do they they think cutscenes are a waste of time? Because WoW has conditioned them into thinking that, a quest is nothing more than an xp/gold bag. There doesn't need to be a story. The description on quests are just filler. All you need to know is where to go, what to kill by reading the summary. Little reading required.

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I base my claims on fact and the facts are as follows. Star Wars is the largest film licence out there and to make an MMO with a £200 million budget (or whatever it was) on it is like the ultimate MMO. It should be thriving with new servers having to be opened on a regular bases, like in err what's that game called...hmm oh yeah WOW. Now three months down the line well over half the playing population have all left the game.

 

Oh wait are you one of the people that believe the PR BS that is spewed out by EA every month? I guess you are, no wonder your post was so delusional. How about you forget what people are quoting and simply log into a handful of servers on Sunday evening at peak time and see how empty the game has become.

 

So I restate my case, this game has been a huge failure, it got 1.7 million box sales due to all the hype and the fact that Star Wars is a AAA title, you should know that even if you have a limited education. Loads left during the free month but many more like myself had a 60 day timecard, they expire today, this is why I predicted a mass exodus over the next few days, I will be right.

 

WoW was never as successful as SW:TOR in their launch. There were just as many bugs, server crashes, and emergency maintenances during the middle of people's raid sessions. It was VERY disruptive, but a few loyal players hung on and helped them become what it is today.

 

It has only been 3 months, and already you are expecting them to roll out new servers? WoW never grew that fast in its first year.

 

You expect SW:TOR to walk on water, and when it doesn't, it is doomed to failure? Your reasonings are incredible.

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Does an MMO need a story? No. No game does.

 

Bioware has blurred the distinction between games and movies. This is a trend in all Bioware games, not just TOR. Bioware always had games with great stories to tell, but with more recent games the focus has shifted far too much into the story telling direction.

 

When creating a game the first and most important aspect is gameplay. Story telling always comes second. Bioware seems to have forgotten about this.

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Does an MMO need a story? No. No game does.

 

Bioware has blurred the distinction between games and movies. This is a trend in all Bioware games, not just TOR. Bioware always had games with great stories to tell, but with more recent games the focus has shifted far too much into the story telling direction.

 

When creating a game the first and most important aspect is gameplay. Story telling always comes second. Bioware seems to have forgotten about this.

 

I disagree, I think they should delve further into the story aspect and make the game more of a niche game for a specific player base. There are enough MMOs on the market at the moment that provide all of the other aspects for people to play.

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Does an MMO need a story? No. No game does.

 

Bioware has blurred the distinction between games and movies. This is a trend in all Bioware games, not just TOR. Bioware always had games with great stories to tell, but with more recent games the focus has shifted far too much into the story telling direction.

 

When creating a game the first and most important aspect is gameplay. Story telling always comes second. Bioware seems to have forgotten about this.

 

I disagree. People actually bought Mass Effect 3 more for the story than the gameplay. And when they got bad endings, people complained more about that than the gameplay in general.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17458208

 

In contrast, I think there is not enough story for SW:TOR.

I just finished a part of my class story, and it was very nice. It also involves killing x number of npcs to reach my destination, but I actually wanted to destroy everyone.

 

But the story for the generic missions aren't as nice. I did not feel like killing x number of npcs to finish my missions, because the story was bland. There was almost no meaning to destroy them.

 

I don't understand why they create awesome story for class missions, but then make a half-hearted attempt for the generic missions.

 

So a good story will enhance your gameplay experience. It leaves you longing more for the story. Everything you do becomes more meaningful. The problem with SW:TOR is that only the class story is worth pursuing. My guess is that people say the story doesn't matter, not because it doesn't, but because the story for generic missions aren't as good. If the generic missions had the same quality of story as the class missions, people would be changing their tunes.

Edited by ConradLionhart
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MMO's need a story (multiple stories) and they need to be told well. Otherwise all you have is combat grinding. It's quite pointless; as pointless as an RPG that has no story and only combat (it becomes an action game only).

 

The whole point of an MMORPG is that it is an RPG, which means it needs story telling.

 

However, I agree that the resource given to the cut scenes and dialogues should have been better spent on building out the basic system.

 

There's no reason at all to take us out of a perpetual world constantly and into cutscene after cutscene. Or, just as bad, loading screen after loading screen. There are signs all over the place that bioware, when they started this project, doesn't understand the essence of what an MMORPG is. They get the RPG but not the MMO and more importantly, the synthesis of MMO-RPG.

 

Personally I enjoy the stories but I skip everything. I read the text. It's great the first run through, but tedious (more tedious than mob grinding) with the constant cuts and load. There's no reason they couldn't have been a bit more balanced about it; rather than constant cut/dialogue scenes, they could have just voice the NPC and given us transcription ala traditional RPG quests. They also didn't need ALL that verbose dialogue. Frankly, they could cut 20% of each dialogue and still retain the essence of the conversation.

 

It's overly much and it's apparent that too much of the resources went to just this ONE system.

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