Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?

[xsmspiffs]

You are welcome to send us bugs if you think you have a case where it is broken. We'll gladly fix it for you in that case.

 

Bug submitted on PTS a while back :-) Specific case is when smuggler uses Disappearing Act it often does not stop combat. It looks like it has but when you pop out of stealth to use your heal it doesn't heal, and your companion goes running back to the NPC to attack it again.

 

This is usually followed by swearing. Haven't nailed it down, but it may have to do with DoTs being placed on you or your companion.

 

Of course if you cannot pop a medpack to get your health up while you try and use a heal skill with a channel on it you are probably dead at that point in time, which is, again, usually followd by swearing.

 

The Bug Tracker Id is Issue # 168030...

Edited March 23, 2012 by xsmspiffs

[Karenai]

PvP?

 

What PvP fights are you in which last over 90 seconds? Healer vs healer? ROFL.

 

Maybe in Voidstar, as defender, I can see you being in combat > 90 seconds if you are amazing and never die. Maybe.

 

This change is a complete non-issue for PvP. This affects PvE Boss Fights tremendously, however.

 

The only time I get out of fight in PvP is when I die. Maybe it is different for other classes, but I never stop casting.

If the cooldown starts again, when you get out of fight, then it's rather harsh for warzones.

If there is only an internal cooldown, so you cannot use it after the first 90 seconds untill you get out of fight, then it is ok.

[Tiars]

Changes such as this are never requested by the community. However, it makes encounters easier to design around. Medpacs are the emergency, going to die, need health instantly type item. Being able to use them several times throughout the fight mitigates the encounter. This type of change was required for balance.

 

Correct. This is why WoW did this same change and now that EA is trying to design more complex encounters they realized how much this type of change helps their design and testing.

[Taroen]

Correct. This is why WoW did this same change and now that EA is trying to design more complex encounters they realized how much this type of change helps their design and testing.

 

Incorrect. Currently you *might* get to use your medpack 3 times tops in any long fight. Yeah, that's really game breaking there.

 

If you can't see that Bioware is trying to make encounters more difficult by nerfing player abilities instead of enhancing the encounters themselves, I don't know what to tell you.

 

But I know that you'll buy into anything that they say.

[Keyran-Halcyon]

PvP?

 

What PvP fights are you in which last over 90 seconds? Healer vs healer? ROFL.

 

Maybe in Voidstar, as defender, I can see you being in combat > 90 seconds if you are amazing and never die. Maybe.

 

This change is a complete non-issue for PvP. This affects PvE Boss Fights tremendously, however.

 

Wow, do you never see the messages of "Player X is immortal" and so on? I have had 0 deaths in wz's before and seen plenty of other players do the same. If you can't live for over 90 secs at least once in a wz, then you are doing something wrong. So this will greatly affect play in general for both PvE and PvP

[CVSiN]

Wow, do you never see the messages of "Player X is immortal" and so on? I have had 0 deaths in wz's before and seen plenty of other players do the same. If you can't live for over 90 secs at least once in a wz, then you are doing something wrong. So this will greatly affect play in general for both PvE and PvP

 

ROFL.. the ONLY way I have ever been able to get that...

 

was to have 2 guild sorc healers babysitting my Merc on voidstar while guarding a door.

 

good luck with doing that even with a rakata stim.. at least on my server the rebs will flat destroy you.

[Blotter]

You are welcome to send us bugs if you think you have a case where it is broken. We'll gladly fix it for you in that case.

 

And by "fix" he means make it so that simply being in a WZ is equivalent to being in combat, so you no longer have to worry about trying to get "out" of combat while in a WZ.

[Keyran-Halcyon]

ROFL.. the ONLY way I have ever been able to get that...

 

was to have 2 guild sorc healers babysitting my Merc on voidstar while guarding a door.

 

good luck with doing that even with a rakata stim.. at least on my server the rebs will flat destroy you.

 

I am Republic, and I do have a better advantage since Im a healer. But I have had DPS friends that had 0 deaths, or only 2-3 deaths in a match. I will say it depends on the other team, and other factors. But still its not that hard to stay alive for more than 90 seconds, at least with a good team. Now if you have a team that has no idea what they are doing, then yes you will die alot.

[LingormR]

Medpacs can now only be used once per fight. When a medpac is used during combat, another cannot be used until after combat has ended.

 

This is a huge mistake.

 

OMG Y?!?! Are they doing this?!?! They should do the opposite and get rid of the cool down. There should be no cool down for Medpacs like in KOTOR and City of Heroes.

[bbates]

"Medpacs can now only be used once per fight. When a medpac is used during combat, another cannot be used until after combat has ended."

 

Isn't that what cool downs are for. I'm not saying swtor should be like every other game but in this case they might consider it. Being able to use a med-pack's shouldn't be based on the duration of the fight but the cool down of the pack. Current cool downs of 1.5 minutes mean you can use one 4 times on a boss before enrage hits and that is only if you pop one first thing witch you shouldn't be doing anyways. So tell me where does the extra 12 k max health break the game.

 

I could see that in fights that range upwards of 20 minutes how this could be more health then intended but in fights that last a max of 7 minutes come on!

Edited March 22, 2012 by bbates

[Lugosi]

haha

 

how about this, at the end of this discussion one of us will be happy and the other won't. which do you think it will be?

 

feel free to carry on. i'll be here with my tub of popcorn... nom nom nom

 

Meh, I'll get over it and adjust.

 

Did you bring popcorn for the rest of us?

[BlackMink]

When dropping down onto the platforms, there are times when you have to wait for the next platform to drop. In those times your healers should be topping off the raid and AoE healing.

 

Thank you captain obvious, this is exactly what my team has been doing for nearly 3 months now. But while it sounds good on paper, it doesn't always go quite so perfectly in practice. Once in a while maybe one of your healers is running a little behind, or maybe you lose one for some fluke reason. Whatever the reason, sometimes you don't quite get enough healing to make it all the way down without using a medpack.

 

And as others have pointed out, healers are taking some serious nerfs in 1.2. That, plus the lack of medpacks in this very unusual boss battle is going to make it a whole lot harder than it already is.

 

The only time that I see popping a medpac is really needed is when you go to pop your lightning ball. You should be at full health when it hits. Alternative here is to have a healer ready to top people off when they call it.

 

Again, thank you for the obvious solution to one of the many problems in this fight. But what do you plan to do the fifth or sixth time you are targeted by a lightning ball? Because he doesn't just do it once, where as you can only medpack once per fight in 1.2. As has been stated many times already in this topic, there is no guarentee that healing will be coming for you. In this fight especially. One of your healers might get stuck in a mindtrap at just the wrong moment, or might be flying around the room as Soa's personal kite. Or, the healers might simply be out of energy because people take a hell of a lot of damage from that ball lightning.

 

Yes it will require minor changes to how we do things, but it is not at all impossible or hopeless like many in this thread would have you believe.

 

No, this will require way more than just minor changes. The very best raid groups will probably still be able to clear this fight, but people are going to wipe a whole lot more often if this nerf goes live. This particular fight will likely become impossible for many people.

 

And that's all beside the point that the Soa fight sucks in it's current design. The devs really need to overhaul it. It's buggy: Ball Lightnings turn invisible somtimes. Once in a while it won't announce the name of a ball lightning target. Platforms are sometimes missing. Soa will sometimes randomly reset when you've got him nearly dead. It's lethal: Ball Lightnings are incredibly damaging. There are many fluke ways that people can die during this fight. It's easy to not notice a pyramid overhead when you are busy dealing with ball lightning and mindtraps. Right in the first phase, every once in a while he will spam the area with green fire. In less than a minute, there are suddenly 8 green fires around the room and all your ranged people are dead.

 

This is already a very buggy and frustrating encounter. The last thing we need in this fight is to lose our ability to medpack.

[xJACKTHERIPPERx]

just checking in to lol @ a 28 page thread QQing about a meaningless change lol

[Lulzbot]

Thank you captain obvious, this is exactly what my team has been doing for nearly 3 months now. But while it sounds good on paper, it doesn't always go quite so perfectly in practice. Once in a while maybe one of your healers is running a little behind, or maybe you lose one for some fluke reason. Whatever the reason, sometimes you don't quite get enough healing to make it all the way down without using a medpack.

 

And as others have pointed out, healers are taking some serious nerfs in 1.2. That, plus the lack of medpacks in this very unusual boss battle is going to make it a whole lot harder than it already is.

 

 

 

Again, thank you for the obvious solution to one of the many problems in this fight. But what do you plan to do the fifth or sixth time you are targeted by a lightning ball? Because he doesn't just do it once, where as you can only medpack once per fight in 1.2. As has been stated many times already in this topic, there is no guarentee that healing will be coming for you. In this fight especially. One of your healers might get stuck in a mindtrap at just the wrong moment, or might be flying around the room as Soa's personal kite. Or, the healers might simply be out of energy because people take a hell of a lot of damage from that ball lightning.

 

 

 

No, this will require way more than just minor changes. The very best raid groups will probably still be able to clear this fight, but people are going to wipe a whole lot more often if this nerf goes live. This particular fight will likely become impossible for many people.

 

And that's all beside the point that the Soa fight sucks in it's current design. The devs really need to overhaul it. It's buggy: Ball Lightnings turn invisible somtimes. Once in a while it won't announce the name of a ball lightning target. Platforms are sometimes missing. Soa will sometimes randomly reset when you've got him nearly dead. It's lethal: Ball Lightnings are incredibly damaging. There are many fluke ways that people can die during this fight. It's easy to not notice a pyramid overhead when you are busy dealing with ball lightning and mindtraps. Right in the first phase, every once in a while he will spam the area with green fire. In less than a minute, there are suddenly 8 green fires around the room and all your ranged people are dead.

 

This is already a very buggy and frustrating encounter. The last thing we need in this fight is to lose our ability to medpack.

 

My guild does SOA on HM and I don't require stims or medpacks. Some people still bring them, but it's not needed.

 

I've done it on nightmare with another guild that does the same, and we cleared it just fine.

[Zannis]

Medpacs can now only be used once per fight. When a medpac is used during combat, another cannot be used until after combat has ended.

 

This is a huge mistake.

 

1- There exists no mechanic to determine when a fight over and the next mob begins for your character alone. Considering that there exists a bug where you companion agros mobs on it's own now.... this becomes even more problematic.

 

If there's any bug where companions decide to aggro their own groups of mobs with no user input, I've yet to see it, and have yet to read anything about that on these forums. I'm a pretty regular reader here.

 

2- Group mechanics currently can not differentiate if you are out of combat if your party wanders off and attacks something while you yourself are trying to catch a second wind. This is clearly demonstrated by elevators that will not let you use them if you party is in combat, loot boxes that can not be opened and the like.

 

If you're out of combat, then you'll be able to use another medpack if your group drags you back in to combat again. There are always small gaps in between combat for me no matter how fast any group pulls. This will always reset the medpack cooldown. Failing to see the issue here.

 

2a- Does anyone NOT see a problem when -1- member of a Operation is -stuck- in combat mode and no one can use a med pack????

Again, you're pointing to bugs as things to balance the game around. You don't balance a game around bugs, you remove the bugs from the game. As stated above in my answer for question 1, I rarely see anyone 'stuck' in combat. If they are, run out, log out, reset your character. The nerf to medpacks has nothing to do with this.

 

3-This change was not asked for by the player community.

 

The community rarely asks for a nerf of any kind.

 

Failing to see how this is a huge nerf. My reasons why above in orange.

[Lugosi]

The community rarely asks for a nerf of any kind.

 

lol, funniest thing I've read all day.

[Nijraw]

This better not make it LIVE.

 

If you go though with this junk you NEED to give all non healing classes a better way to regain health in combat, examples below:

 

BH/Trooper Vanguard, needs to have there "Adrenaline Rush" on a 1:30 second cool down.

 

Jedi/Sith , need to have there new heal on damage cost no rage/focus & have a added passive that also heals them when CCed over X amount over X seconds to counter being kited to death by healers.

 

Snipers/Gunslingers, need a health regain on a low cool down as well.

 

I hate to tell you how to do your job but I been at this longer then most of you at Bioware when it comes to class balance especially PvP balance, what will happen over time with non healing classes is that as gear and stats get better the healing classes will become GODS, so in order to counter that from happening non healing classes need a way to regain health to prevent being wittled down by healing classes, in order to have a balanced PvP setting a game needs 3 things.

 

1. Crowd Control

2. Counter Control

3. Combat health regain via Medpacks or class skills limited only by cool downs.

 

Having Medpacks only work once in combat is a BIG NO, NO if there isn't skills to counter damage like personal health regains, TRUST ME this will back fire in your face, Hell even WoW understood this and is the reason they gave Rogues recuperate & Warrior second wind & blood craze.

3.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Nijraw

[BlackMink]

My guild does SOA on HM and I don't require stims or medpacks. Some people still bring them, but it's not needed.

 

I've done it on nightmare with another guild that does the same, and we cleared it just fine.

 

Well, I congradulate you on your success. My main raid group is pretty good as well. We are now heavily suited up in Rakata stuff, and we easily one-shot all 9 other hard mode bosses each week. Soa is the only one that gives us trouble, and it's not for lack of tactics, equipment or player skill. It's all those buggy design problems I listed previously.

 

A medpack is a backup plan. It's for those occations where your health is low, and you have no idea when or if someone else is going to heal you. This is the one fight in the game where that situation comes up more than anywhere else. If you don't want to bring any, that's your choice, but being able to use two or three medpacks during this very long fight makes it slightly more do-able.

 

Medpacks just shouldn't be on the top of biowares list of raid changes. There are a lot of other issues that should get fixed before a change like this is made.

[Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

You exit combat in PvP 8 seconds after the last hostile action. DOTs do not refresh this status.

 

You're playing very unusual games of Huttball if you never drop out of combat. Especially given that the ball resets to the center after someone scores, moving the action quickly.

 

It's very difficult to get those 8 seconds. That's why other games use 5 seconds.

 

Also, I could *swear* that it takes longer than 8 seconds sometimes. No one ever told us how long it was supposed to be. Now that we know, we'll time it for you.

[Keta]

Srsly? no comment?

 

Good ideas go lost in all the complaints and counter complaints and counter counter complaints and ....

[Omarax]

You exit combat in PvP 8 seconds after the last hostile action. DOTs do not refresh this status.

 

You're playing very unusual games of Huttball if you never drop out of combat. Especially given that the ball resets to the center after someone scores, moving the action quickly.

 

I've had the exact same thing happen quite often on my Op in huttball. I will get in a fight I know I'm about to lose, stun an enemy and run up the ramps......enemy doesn't have a way to close on me so just goes and finds someone else to pick on. Meanwhile I've been spamming my stealth button since about 5 seconds after I stunned him and usually won't get OOC for anywhere upwards of 20-30 seconds. I really have no real explanation for why this happens, but it happens at least once nearly every huttball match

[Kaphik]

I'll post my comments here, from another thread on the same topic:

 

Just seems like they are taking a cue from Blizzard again and making it easier to balance pve encounters. Consumables got so out of hand in WoW that raid content had to be balanced around players having every possible buff and non-stop potion use. They finally did away with that, and it looks like BioWare is nipping that in the bud early.

[Barrgil]

Some people complain over the dumbest things. This isn't even a big deal, even in PvP. I rarely use medpacks in PvP anyway except when I accidentally step into hazards.

 

Stop being such a baby and complain about something so insignificant and enjoy the game. You're messing up somewhere horribly if you don't finish off a mob before the 90s cooldown is up.

 

Deal with it.

[sohokerv]

seems crazy to me ..

in my opinion a better work around would be to :

 

increase the cool down time on medpacks but let us use as many per fight as the new longer cool down will allow!

 

This would raise the difficulty of most high end fights and also mean that during most general fights only one pack would get used! (if that)

 

however it would also mean that small groups dont completely die in the time it takes your medics to rez after an un lucky hit (or poor choice of medic often from joining a random group)

 

It would mean you still had to be careful and skilled in your med pack timing

 

but it wouldn't completely kill off mid range solo content or be a stealth nerf to classes that dont have a heal skill

 

and finally it would not as adversely effect the sale of crafted med packs thus helping the economy that was meant to be being rejuvenated in this patch!

[TKMaster]

Havent the forums been flooded with hundreds of "OMG!THIS GAME IS TO EASY IT SUCKS!!!!!!LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!111!!!" topics since day one?

 

Now your crying that it may be too hard?

 

GD you ppl are frigging moronic.

Edited March 23, 2012 by TKMaster