Raansu Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 This is a terrible idea... I swear I think Bioware wants this game to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArjinPax Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I for one don't like this for two reasons. #1 My guild will not be able to performe raids any longer. #2 This is a slap to the biochem craft. If people can only use one medpack, why even purchase them in the exchange? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faulhaber Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'm pretty sure alot of this nonsense BW is trying to pull in 1.2 is a giant case of "be careful what you wish for." It could be the case, but they better be prepared for a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faulhaber Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 "this is a proper game now, i wiped 5 times last night, and i was only trying to do a class quest" Sad truth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajimoto Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) I wouldn't mind the change if the game was actually consistent in regard to leaving combat. Unfortunately, that is not the case. There have been many instances where you can just sit there away from people and still be stuck in combat. (I am speaking about PvP) Seems to me that if they want to base the limited use of the medpac around leaving combat, then perhaps they should start by fixing how a player is removed from combat in the first place? As it stands now, it is very inconsistent in regard to leaving combat in a PvP setting. There are times where you will leave combat immediately, which generally happens after a kill of a single player. However, if you attempt to "break" combat by distance and down time? Good luck, you could be waiting a very long time. Edited March 23, 2012 by Kajimoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FASARouge Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Making the medpacs variable more controllable for endgame content is a necessary precondition for the creation of tighter, more closely balanced fights. We don't want medpacs to be as important as class abilities, and we feel they should not become part of rotations. On longer boss fights, this is a trend we've seen happening, and we've counteracted this. Obviously, where needed, boss mechanics would be adjusted to account for this, but we don't really anticipate much impact for that on existing content. New content (such as Operation: Explosive Conflict and Flashpoint: The Lost Island) is significantly tighter balanced already, with this limitation in mind. A positive side effect is that the cost of running endgame content is somewhat reduced by this change. We are still in discussions to restore pre-level 50 medpacs to their previous condition to avoid negatively affecting the PvE game during the leveling process for people that heavily rely on medpacs. Wow I sure hope you know what you are doing........ First off I don't PvP, I avoid it at all costs. So I am one of your PvE only customers. Now with 1.2 you are about to nerf my class (Sorcerer & Sage) so I can't heal as effectively as I could before, so most likely I won't be a healer after 1.2 comes out on either faction. And then just to twist the knife a bit more you are going to remove medpacks out of the equasion. So I might as well scrap Biochem as well because nobody will be buying medpacks any more. Guess I should just move on to a different character. Just to let you know I'll be playing a Jedi Knight next and I'll be Synthweaving. I just wanted to let you know what to nerf in about a month or two when I get comfortable with them. And let me just point out: Every crafter other than Biochem is getting a big "buff" in terms of making their crafting more viable and useful, etc., in an effort to start up an economy. In contrast, with THIS change, BW IS NOW NERFING THE HELL OUT OF DEMAND FOR BIOCHEM PRODUCTS. Nerfed hard. As I've said before: the trifecta of 1.2 unsubbing...sorc healer who took biochem and ended up on a low pop server. Funny you should mention Sorcerer Healer that took Biochem Though I'll just move to a different character, needed a reason to not play my favorite character all the time anyways. Edited March 23, 2012 by FASARouge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyriel Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I have serious doubts about this one... I don't like it, let me explain why: First of all: I do not play a healer nor do I plan to ever roll a healer unless it's the 2nd spec if dual spec should ever be implemented. I play DPS, Marauder to be exact. I don't like the change - especially with the current nerfs to any healer class - because it shifts the balance of difficulty in PVE raid environments too much towards healers. As a DPS I could, if situations during boss fights called for it, heal myself with a medpac - I don't have any other reliable on demand healing spells - thus taking a little bit responsibility for me staying alive away from the healer (besides using defensive cooldowns when needed). Now it seems like BW is going the route (this change alone surely won't do that completely) of putting 80% of the "workload" in Ops on the healers. I remember back in WoW it was like "if your healers are good you will down the boss" - they always have a higher difficulty in Ops than DPS. They have to watch out for everything that you as DPS do AND everything you do, at least your life - later they had to rotate cooldowns on the tanks in order for them to survive - taking responsibility away from tanks - and who doesn't remember: "Not enough DPS; just take the ae dmg, we'll heal through it".. most boss tactis were "dumbed" down to be excessively stressful on healers while everyone else only had one single job. It shouldn't be this way. It is simply a really bad way to go about raiding if all you do is being carried through content by the ridicilously high amount of effort your healers have to put in. Even before the nerf there were not many people who wanted to play as a healer - simply because it is more demanding than dps and it is NO FUN for most people to have to do extra work to get the same thing. I don't want to be able to faceroll through content as DPS without having to care about anything than rotation/priolist while knowing it all ends well or doesn't depending on the performance of the healers. It's not fun for anyone and I see a lot of guilds/raid team struggling with recruiting healers if it continues to be so much harder than everything else. Don't take away a DPS or tanks responsibility to keep themselfs alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 PvP? What PvP fights are you in which last over 90 seconds? Healer vs healer? ROFL. Maybe in Voidstar, as defender, I can see you being in combat > 90 seconds if you are amazing and never die. Maybe. This change is a complete non-issue for PvP. This affects PvE Boss Fights tremendously, however. You must not pvp. As he mentioned you can go 10+ minutes in pvp without being in combat. As long as anyone who has attacked you in pretty much any way is still alive you stay in combat. It is easy to know when you play a stealth class. Sorry but this is a bigger issue for pvp then pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 You exit combat in PvP 8 seconds after the last hostile action. DOTs do not refresh this status. You're playing very unusual games of Huttball if you never drop out of combat. Especially given that the ball resets to the center after someone scores, moving the action quickly. Georg, I will check again but when I was playing my assassin I could run across the map alone and find myself still unable to stealth due to being engaged. I will check it specifically but in an active huttball match going eight seconds without any hostile action rarely happens unless you purposefully run away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Making the medpacs variable more controllable for endgame content is a necessary precondition for the creation of tighter, more closely balanced fights. We don't want medpacs to be as important as class abilities, and we feel they should not become part of rotations. On longer boss fights, this is a trend we've seen happening, and we've counteracted this. Obviously, where needed, boss mechanics would be adjusted to account for this, but we don't really anticipate much impact for that on existing content. New content (such as Operation: Explosive Conflict and Flashpoint: The Lost Island) is significantly tighter balanced already, with this limitation in mind. A positive side effect is that the cost of running endgame content is somewhat reduced by this change. We are still in discussions to restore pre-level 50 medpacs to their previous condition to avoid negatively affecting the PvE game during the leveling process for people that heavily rely on medpacs. ahem...*cough* *tries to keep a straight face* HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ahem... Your post makes no sense and then you wonder why people make claims that you and the rest of your team at bioware does not play your own game and you are just pulling ideas out of thin air. You dont want it to be as important as class abilities? What? It's a medpack...thats on a 90s cooldown...thats used in emergencies...Are you telling me that single 3.6k medpack is sufficient for boss fights that can last 5-8 minutes? Seriously, what rotation are we putting medpacks into? Where are you pulling this nonsense? People get hit by a crit or get pounded by something and pop a medpack to help the healers a bit. No one is putting medpacks into a rotation on a freakin 90s cooldown...seriously... Why are you guys over there on this nerf rampage? Erm, excuse me "re-balance." This is just excessive and I question your reasoning to doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisftw Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 i hated this when they put it in place in WOW and now its here. i don't really understand why they have this like this in every MMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 i hated this when they put it in place in WOW and now its here. i don't really understand why they have this like this in every MMO it's okay, clearly you're not alone in your inability to understand why this is a good change. /comfort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iserath Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!?!? ALL THAT TIME I SPENT GOING BIO AND THEN BOOM THEY CHANGE THE WHOLE GAME WHEN NO ONE WAS SAYING ANYTHING!!!!!!!!! KEEP THIS UP AND NO ONE WILL BE PLAYING THIS GAME!!!!!!!! IT WILL BE THE NEW RIFT BUT WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! seriously.. if you make medpacks like this... im scared what other changes are going to happen down the road... if this goes through i will unsub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryChastain Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Wouldn't have to tune encounters to be close if you ever used something other than an Enrage mechanic. How about make something have 10 mill hp or something way up there and make it more of a survive till the end? Instead all we get now is this boss will have a crap ton of RNG that can(and usually does) overlap each other and create a condition that is not survivable by anyone means. Throw an enrage timer on the end, just incase people actually got through all of the RNG. I remember playing lineage 2 where we had 100+ people trying to kill 1 boss, and it took 8+ hours. That is with no trash. Here, everything is always race and RNG luck. Getting annoying as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacer Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 it's okay, clearly you're not alone in your inability to understand why this is a good change. /comfort explain why this is such an great change? I personally see it as something that is totally unnecessary. I better fix would be to just raise the cool down of the medpacs.... they probably could have gotten away with a higher CD with out any outrage( 30 page thread). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Wouldn't have to tune encounters to be close if you ever used something other than an Enrage mechanic. How about make something have 10 mill hp or something way up there and make it more of a survive till the end? Instead all we get now is this boss will have a crap ton of RNG that can(and usually does) overlap each other and create a condition that is not survivable by anyone means. Throw an enrage timer on the end, just incase people actually got through all of the RNG. I remember playing lineage 2 where we had 100+ people trying to kill 1 boss, and it took 8+ hours. That is with no trash. Here, everything is always race and RNG luck. Getting annoying as hell. It's funny that the biggest example people give that proves they "need" to use medpacks more than 1 time per fight is SOA fall damage, not enrage timers. oh look, a boss mechanic that happens more than every 90 seconds that everyone saves their medpack for to cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iserath Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 biggest fail of the whole game will be if this idea goes through... PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS TO MEDPACKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakertanks Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Just saying I don't like this. Out of combat wayy too buggy. Edited March 23, 2012 by Beakertanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceansofmars Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Georg stop lying. We both know the game bugs out in pvp and wont let you leave combat for longer than 8 seconds after a hostile action. But then again I actually play the game and you dont so maybe you dont know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorrinRaddd Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I for one don't like this for two reasons. #1 My guild will not be able to performe raids any longer. #2 This is a slap to the biochem craft. If people can only use one medpack, why even purchase them in the exchange? Wait wut? Do you not have healers at all in your guild. Anyway i like that their decreasing the use of medpacks not that i really used them a lot anyway but its good to see the game going the challenge route that and i quote "EVERYONE COMPLAINED ABOUT AND WANTED". Good job bioware im proud:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iserath Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 see the thing is.. people based a lot of decisions off of what we were told.. like how often and how many medpacks we could use or craft.. causing some people to go biotech.. and now its almost pointless... no one asked for this.. way to totally change the game in so many ways.. LOOK AT ALL THE FEEDBACK!!! LOOK AT HOW ENRAGED PEOPLE ARE?!?! how could you consider us happy customers?!? keep this up and its gunna be rift #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 It's funny that the biggest example people give that proves they "need" to use medpacks more than 1 time per fight is SOA fall damage, not enrage timers. oh look, a boss mechanic that happens more than every 90 seconds that everyone saves their medpack for to cheese. Just soa fall damage? How about when a healer is in a mind trap and another is flung? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 see the thing is.. people based a lot of decisions off of what we were told.. like how often and how many medpacks we could use or craft.. causing some people to go biotech.. and now its almost pointless... no one asked for this.. way to totally change the game in so many ways.. LOOK AT ALL THE FEEDBACK!!! LOOK AT HOW ENRAGED PEOPLE ARE?!?! how could you consider us happy customers?!? keep this up and its gunna be rift #2 The only people they have listened to, since during beta, are the mysterious internal testers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Wait wut? Do you not have healers at all in your guild. Anyway i like that their decreasing the use of medpacks not that i really used them a lot anyway but its good to see the game going the challenge route that and i quote "EVERYONE COMPLAINED ABOUT AND WANTED". Good job bioware im proud:) People complained about the mechanics being too simple. Nerfing everything into the ground to "add difficulty" just annoys people as its still the same boring mechanics. A good developer would of created more complicated mechanics in a fight to make them mroe difficult, not nerf the game into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolotomasi Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Just soa fall damage? How about when a healer is in a mind trap and another is flung? it's called wiped when a healer flung! use exit area, not med pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts