PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs

[Esproc]

You're doing Nightmare clears with pugs? Nice. Which server?

 

I this is true, then it is already being done with out these so called "NEEDed" logs.

 

The topic: Give Us Real Combat Logs

 

Well, if I, as someone called me a "Purist" have my say, It's NO!!.

 

Above reason is enough to say why they are unNEEDed.

 

Also, Use you FRAPS like someone mentioned and use Video Logs to go over you "Data Stream" to B!^(# at Luke, or Wedge, or poor Porkins.

[Cleopas]

I this is true, then it is already being done with out these so called "NEEDed" logs.

 

It's not. His post was misleading.

 

 

Also, you don't need a 110% speeder. Walk. Explore. Quit using your Quick Travel. Find a spaceport.

 

And maps? Sheesh...not needed. Study cartography and make your own maps! Stop being so lazy.

 

And quest helpers? What are we, 5? Come on! Make this game PURE!

 

All those things that I just mentioned above are things that have not always been in MMOs, but I sure don't want to play without them now.

[CaMiCaZiE]

they are not needed for the current cheesewalk content. i dont think many people here realise how easy it is right now. an 8 year old could do this stuff

 

if/when content becomes challenging, you will need to do alot of work to get your raid up to scratch, and these tools help significantly. i would hope it gets to this level of challenge, otherwise its just playing multiplayer Zelda.

[Cleopas]

they are not needed for the current cheesewalk content. i dont think many people here realise how easy it is right now. an 8 year old could do this stuff

 

if/when content becomes challenging, you will need to do alot of work to get your raid up to scratch, and these tools help significantly. i would hope it gets to this level of challenge, otherwise its just playing multiplayer Zelda.

 

Solid point.

[Esproc]

It's not. His post was misleading.

 

 

Also, you don't need a 110% speeder. Walk. Explore. Quit using your Quick Travel. Find a spaceport.

 

And maps? Sheesh...not needed. Study cartography and make your own maps! Stop being so lazy.

 

And quest helpers? What are we, 5? Come on! Make this game PURE!

 

All those things that I just mentioned above are things that have not always been in MMOs, but I sure don't want to play without them now.

 

I do enjoy walking, and sometimes the places I explore, well, if you don't walk, you're dead.

 

But a mod/meter/addon that tells you when to push a button, c'mon, just BOT IT, you're not playing it any ways, a programs is telling you when.

[JediElf]

Oh yah we need GuildConnect to know when Cathony of Blades is incoming etc,yes i raided hardcore in EQ2 (Sorry WoW players raids there in difficulty put yours to shame) and still raid once or so a week and for many like myself we came to this game to get away from that,it is no longer viable anymore imo too,EQ2 has moved to two group raids even (Still 24 peope raids too) because filling 24 people of needed classes and gear takes countless months.

 

Point is adding these elements that some want in this thread creates divides among the playerbase,you know it and i know it.

 

Heh...yea I've love to take a hardcore WOW raid guild, and throw them into an EQ2 raid. The vent recordings, would be a whole new level of raging hilarity.

 

Ya know, personal logs, I'm cool with that, it's pubic logs or a Recount-ish program that I'm completely against.

 

I think Bioware made the right choice with the parsing logs.

 

Edited March 27, 2012 by JediElf

[crimsonsglory]

I'm curious as to how many that are against combat logs participate in the End end game content (viz. hard/nightmare content).

 

From the way the anti logs brigadier's post, I can tell they played Wow. And I'm curios what's their main in wowarmory. But I can guess how their profile is like from the way they protest. I know their kind in wow.

[CaMiCaZiE]

I do enjoy walking, and sometimes the places I explore, well, if you don't walk, you're dead.

 

But a mod/meter/addon that tells you when to push a button, c'mon, just BOT IT, you're not playing it any ways, a programs is telling you when.

 

way to jump from a useful analysis tool to botting. real nice logic there

 

but if you need this to show you how to dps properly. and the content was suffieciently challenging, you may need it

 

From the way the anti logs brigadier's post, I can tell they played Wow. And I'm curios what's their main in wowarmory. But I can guess how their profile is like from the way they protest. I know their kind in wow.

 

you know their kind? what kind of generalising crap is that

[Sathid]

From the way the anti logs brigadier's post, I can tell they played Wow. And I'm curios what's their main in wowarmory. But I can guess how their profile is like from the way they protest. I know their kind in wow.

 

Thought wrong,i never played WoW some in one or more of my EQ2 guilds did,my illusionist (Among fellow Illusionists) was number one in damage worldwide before i quit raiding Hardcore or Hardmode as we call it there.

 

http://eq2.guildprogress.com/

 

Number four is the guild i know many from and that my guild used to compete against,i could of maybe joined that guild but raiding five days a week is too much for me,been there done that a few times in my seven years of EQ2,so yes i know all about ACT,combat logs etc,if you think im a noob for not wanting them here,think again.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Sathid

[Sathid]

I would like to add something.

 

I understand why some of you wish for logs and in a perfect world with people not being jerks it would be great.

 

But that just doesnt happen,in the hardcore guilds i have been in you had at best two weeks to prove yourself or you were out,oh they will get you gear but your numbers better reflect it.

 

Anyone who plays this game or any other should be able to experience all content,now i know what some will say on that so lets nip it in the bud.

 

Yes time and strategy should be rewarded rather than someone who just mopes along,yes i agree and noone likes lazy morons at the keyboard that dont listen to strats or is watching youtube vids while raiding,i agree.

 

My issue is the e-peen and how those hardcore players treat their fellow players within the community and their server,like i said above i have been there with hardcore raiders i know what they say and do and its not good for the game at large at all.

 

MMo's need to find a middle ground,the days of waving the sword of crit 1000 in front of others and calling them,,bads,,should be throwen into the dustbin of mmo history,most ,no 95% of hardcore gamers play 50 hours of game time a week for months when a new expansion comes out,its stupid and silly and most people do not have that amount of time to play a game,we the mmo market are getting older,not younger,average age of mmo gamers is 32 i believe i read,cant we just play to have fun?

Edited March 27, 2012 by Sathid

[itekazzawrrlic]

He keeps trying to convince himself that he is part of majority. He figures if he posts it enough, it will become true.

 

Actually you are the minority.. Check the poll...

 

poll

[itekazzawrrlic]

I'm curious as to how many that are against combat logs participate in the End end game content (viz. hard/nightmare content).

 

i do endgame.

[JediElf]

I would like to add something.

 

I understand why some of you wish for logs and in a perfect world with people not being jerks it would be great.

 

But that just doesnt happen,in the hardcore guilds i have been in you had at best two weeks to prove yourself or you were out,oh they will get you gear but your numbers better reflect it.

 

Anyone who plays this game or any other should be able to experience all content,now i know what some will say on that so lets nip it in the bud.

 

Yes time and strategy should be rewarded rather than someone who just mopes along,yes i agree and noone likes lazy morons at the keyboard that dont listen to strats or is watching youtube vids while raiding,i agree.

 

My issue is the e-peen and how those hardcore players treat their fellow players within the community and their server,like i said above i have been there with hardcore raiders i know what they say and do and its not good for the game at large at all.

 

MMo's need to find a middle ground,the days of waving the sword of crit 1000 in front of others and calling them,,bads,,should be throwen into the dustbin of mmo history,most ,no 95% of hardcore gamers play 50 hours of game time a week for months when a new expansion comes out,its stupid and silly and most people do not have that amount of time to play a game,we the mmo market are getting older,not younger,average age of mmo gamers is 32 i believe i read,cant we just play to have fun?

 

Well said.

[Drewser]

Actually you are the minority.. Check the poll...

 

poll

 

HUH? The guy I responded wanted live in game logs/meters.

 

The poll (which is not really reliable due possible vote stuffing among other reasons), like my view shows more people happy with Bioware's current approach.

 

I'd prefer a toggle for sharing log with guildies but can live with the current set-up.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Drewser

[Frostvein]

But that just doesnt happen,in the hardcore guilds i have been in you had at best two weeks to prove yourself or you were out,oh they will get you gear but your numbers better reflect it.

 

Anyone who plays this game or any other should be able to experience all content,now i know what some will say on that so lets nip it in the bud.

 

Why is this bad? If I'm apping to a guild I know this ahead of time. if I'm fine with it, why is that a problem?

[DarthKhaos]

What you don't seem to understand is that mmo players have become accustomed to these quality of life changes such as addons, dungeon finders, damage meters, etc. I know there are some out there that don't like them because it reminds them of the olden days of mmorpgs where nothing was handed to them, but the majority of players that have played the other games and have experienced the latest QOL changes have gotten used to them and when a game doesn't have them, they feel the game just isn't up to date. In other words, the society of mmorpg players has changed over the last decade.

I'm sorry but we have a difference of opinion on what a "Quality of Life" feature is. Something like a confirmation window for destroying or buying an expensive item is a QoL feature. Addons and combat logs is not.

 

i would hope it gets to this level of challenge, otherwise its just playing multiplayer Zelda.

Heyyyyy... Zelda ROCKS! Don't diss Zelda.

 

Bottom line is this. The Private Combat logs BioWare is offering will give the number crunching math junkies the analytical ****** they desire. The others don't even have to see it. A 1/2 decent guild who wishes to use these numbers will not be impeded in the slightest. Call me bad, call me nub or whatever doesn't change the fact that a lot of players use these types of tools in a negative way under the guise of being noble. They are upset that it is going to be harder to act out.

[Darnu]

This is hilarious now. For LFG tool discussions we have people talking/ranting about Satan destroying MMO players, drug dealers moving into your neighbourhood and now for combat logs we have people talking about guns. Kind of says it all really

[Erasimus]

First - I vote yes for more extensive combat logging including logs for the entire ops not just self-logging. I like being able to compare my DPS output to others but it is more than that.

 

1. There are varying levels of difficulty for OPs and the most difficult level should be difficult enough to require optimizing they output for your character. But how do you know if you've optimized your output if you can't compare it to others?

 

2. Conquering difficult content is more than just DPS or Healing numbers. How about interrupts, not standing in the bad, etc. Comprehensive combat logging should show all of these things, for everyone in the OPS, so you can make adjustments/corrections.

 

Examples:

 

On my Warlock in WoW I'd analyze combat logs to check my uptime on DoTs. I strove for 100% and would make adjustments to improve. I'd compare my rotations/build/DPS to some of the best WoW players and make adjustments to optimize. We used these tools to help our guild members improve their output. I could see how my DPS compared to other classes. The results from combat log parses from real players in the community were used by Blizzard to help balance classes.

 

We'd analyze fights to see where we had gone wrong. Perhaps the people assigned to interrupts missed too many or were standing in the fire too long, or people didn't focus on the adds when they should. Combat logs helped us to resolve all of these issues.

 

Can they be abused? Sure, but you don't need combat logs for jerks to make rude comments to people they don't think are performing up to par. Many people, myself included, like being able to use a tool like combat logs to tweak their performance and I consider myself pretty casual now. Why in the world wouldn't BIO/EA give us this tool (and from the conference comments I think it is coming anyway, just not in 1.2)?

 

This type of combat logging really doesn't hurt the even more casual players and it certainly has not hurt WoWs subscription numbers and comprehensive in game combat log parsing has been available almost since the beginning. In fact many of the people leaving WoW (at least the ones I know) are leaving because it has become "too casually oriented". That and the Pandas

Edited March 27, 2012 by Erasimus

[Neoforcer]

see raid leaders role playing this lol

 

riader: Elite dpser, I am. Hmmmmmm.

Yoda: Fire you stand wipe us you did.

Raider: Last on the dps meter, you were.

Yoda: err heals you took more wipe us it did.

Yoda: Combat logs/Meters Save you they will not.

Yoda: Attetion to your surounding you do not pay wipe us it can

learn you must or raid you not Hmmmmmm.

[Darnu]

see raid leaders role playing this lol

 

riader: Elite dpser, I am. Hmmmmmm.

Yoda: Fire you stand wipe us you did.

Raider: Last on the dps meter, you were.

Yoda: err heals you took more wipe us it did.

Yoda: Combat logs/Meters Save you they will not.

Yoda: Attetion to your surounding you do not pay wipe us it can

learn you must or raid you not Hmmmmmm.

 

how do they do it now? sorry, but this I must know

 

@Loender - I get the armor in this game now. makes sense when you put it that way.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Darnu

[Loendar]

how do they do it now? sorry, but this I must know

 

It's clearly impossible now without extensive logs. Everyone clearing HM/NM currently are using voodoo.

[Varghjerta]

I agree with a real combat log is needefd

 

but that is only based on i want the Pve to be hard and that that my groups would need to know what they should while meaning all the players

Edited March 27, 2012 by Varghjerta

[Seregul]

It's clearly impossible now without extensive logs. Everyone clearing HM/NM currently are using voodoo.

 

BW has indicated that their content will be much more difficult, and from what I understand this is exactly the case on the PTS. The argument for logs goes hand in hand with how tightly tuned the content is, because at the high end of that tuning it is a requirement that everyone be able to push their class to its theoretical maximum.

[Loendar]

BW has indicated that their content will be much more difficult, and from what I understand this is exactly the case on the PTS. The argument for logs goes hand in hand with how tightly tuned the content is, because at the high end of that tuning it is a requirement that everyone be able to push their class to its theoretical maximum.

 

Or - you can go 'old school' and simply figure it out based on the visual/audio cues given and information presented (which is how BW has stated they want their encounters to work).

 

Now, I profess, they may not being doing a good job of presenting those things right now. I don't have a high lvl toon on the PTS to test them and until they do character copies I won't but that IS their stated position.

 

I honestly don't understand the WoW player base mentality (and make no mistake, that is where the bulk of this is coming from) that it is MORE fun to 'figure out' (used loosely) and encounter by looking through a log of the entire thing than it is in working with your teammates, finding out what they were doing and what THEY think is happening and working out a strategy to try based on their input. Is it frustrating not having everything handed to you? Probably. But it is A LOT more rewarding actually figuring out the encounter yourself and what does/doesn't work than having the numbers handed to you. Any sense of accomplishment you feel because you are able to read a log is misplaced/unfounded IMHO. Grats - you were given all the information, can read and crunch numbers... what an asset to the raiding force you are.

 

Once they start requiring combat logs to complete their content they start down the very slippery slope of needing more and more information to compete. They are better off doing what they state their design goal is than caving to the 'more logs' crew.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Loendar

[Vankris]

BW has indicated that their content will be much more difficult, and from what I understand this is exactly the case on the PTS. The argument for logs goes hand in hand with how tightly tuned the content is, because at the high end of that tuning it is a requirement that everyone be able to push their class to its theoretical maximum.

 

i agree. People right now look at log with the curent end game in mind, and it's true that combat log are just luxury right now (luxury i would like to have, but that another point).

 

When content will become tougher and tougher, player will naturally will want to rise to the challenge and perfect their game play (more efficient dps, hps, defensive CD usage, understanding fight mechanics....)

 

I am not worry, full combat log will then come to the game. if it doesn't, only very organised guild, with each member recording and sharing their log for a merge-parse will have accurate representation of the fight and of course an undeniable (some might even say unfair) advantage.

 

To fight this, bioware will have to introduce full combat log.

 

or...

 

Endgame will remains accessible enough to not require combat log. But then, the debate of having a full combat log in game will not even be a thing, the quote - unquote "gamer" would have already left the game.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Vankris