Sathid Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 The SWTOR devs used to be against dungeon finder tools, however they caved and are going to add them. You can read about it here. http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03...r-the-future/4 Rift devs used to be against addons. But they added them. Rift devs also used to be against cross server lfg tools. But they added them. SWTOR devs were against combat logs. But they started adding them. What do all these have in common? Players want these tools. While the vocal minority purists may be against them, many players do want such tools. Trust me when I say that within 1 year this game will have addons and full combat logs instead of just personal logs. Notice I said purists, not casuals. Casuals are people that enjoy experiencing the content instead of having a challenge. Casuals are the ones that play for a few hours a week. Casuals don't care if you put addons in the game, combat logs, or dungeon finder tools (although with their limited time they probably prefer dungeon finders). Purists however are the ones against addons, combat logs, dungeon finder tools, etc. Purists try to call themselves casual, however they don't realize that purist doesn't mean casual. Purists can be hardcore players that dedicate a lot of time to the game and want to experience the hardest content but make sure it's with nothing but the UI the devs give them. Casuals on the other hand cannot by definition, be a hardcore player. Vocal minority,who you kidding i bet if there was a poll your combat log idea would get squashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonsglory Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) You can abuse anything in this world. Let's outlaw everything, especially a mechanism to provide factual data. We don't want facts infecting this world. I guess for them, ignorance is bliss. Obi-Wan: Wait, Master. There is something I must know. [inspects a security hologram] Yoda: You realise, of course, that if into the security recordings, you go, only pain, will you find. Obi-Wan: I must know the truth, Master. Anti log brigadier : wait, I don't wana know anything Pro log crusader : you realise, of course, that if into the damage meters logs, you go, only pain, will you find. Anti log brigadier : I don't wana know the truth Edited March 27, 2012 by crimsonsglory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Vocal minority,who you kidding i bet if there was a poll your combat log idea would get squashed. He keeps trying to convince himself that he is part of majority. He figures if he posts it enough, it will become true. Edited March 27, 2012 by Drewser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I guess for them, ignorance is bliss. Obi-Wan: Wait, Master. There is something I must know. [inspects a security hologram] Yoda: You realise, of course, that if into the security recordings, you go, only pain, will you find. Obi-Wan: I must know the truth, Master. Anti log brigadier : wait, I don't wana know anything Pro log crusader : you realise, of course, that if into the damage meters logs, you go, only pain, will you find. Anti log brigadier : I don't wana know the truth If only our combat log was a video recorder. Obi-Wan looked at how much dmg Anikin did on the younglings. ZOMG look at that those crit numbers!!! Attack on the Death Star: Wedge: Luke you're not doing enough dps. Luke: DPS? Wedge: Yes the numbers don't lie we're going to fail with your DPS. Luke: Bour goal is to... ***? Did I just get kicked from the comm channel? Wedge: Ok guys Luke is no longer part of the group. Let's get a new DPS. Gold3: Erm Wedge. You know we just have to shoot one shot in the hole over there? Wedge: Now we need 2 DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopas Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'm curious as to how many that are against combat logs participate in the End end game content (viz. hard/nightmare content). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopas Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) If only our combat log was a video recorder. Obi-Wan looked at how much dmg Anikin did on the younglings. ZOMG look at that those crit numbers!!! Attack on the Death Star: Wedge: Luke you're not doing enough dps. Luke: DPS? Wedge: Yes the numbers don't lie we're going to fail with your DPS. Luke: Bour goal is to... ***? Did I just get kicked from the comm channel? Wedge: Ok guys Luke is no longer part of the group. Let's get a new DPS. Gold3: Erm Wedge. You know we just have to shoot one shot in the hole over there? Wedge: Now we need 2 DPS. If this game was like the movies, a lightsaber would slice people in half while cauterizing their innards. Edited March 27, 2012 by Cleopas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 If only our combat log was a video recorder. Obi-Wan looked at how much dmg Anikin did on the younglings. ZOMG look at that those crit numbers!!! Attack on the Death Star: Wedge: Luke you're not doing enough dps. Luke: DPS? Wedge: Yes the numbers don't lie we're going to fail with your DPS. Luke: Bour goal is to... ***? Did I just get kicked from the comm channel? Wedge: Ok guys Luke is no longer part of the group. Let's get a new DPS. Gold3: Erm Wedge. You know we just have to shoot one shot in the hole over there? Wedge: Now we need 2 DPS. Best post of the week DarthKhaos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 If this game were like the movies, a lightsaber would slice people in half while cauterizing their innards. Not to mention Luke's DPS was fine, (or else the Death Star wouldn't have gotten blown up) and could be verified by combat logs to avoid him being kicked from the group. Like it or not, SWTOR is a game. I mean seriously, do you upgrade your mods? Because all mods do it provide statistical advancement, not aesthetic (except for color crystals). So if you ever once upgraded your mods you are lifting up your "precious" curtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'm curious as to how many that are against combat logs participate in the End end game content (viz. hard/nightmare content). I have,and guess what people have been doing those zones without one havent they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopas Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I have,and guess what people have been doing those zones without one havent they. My guild has too. It's been annoying. So you "have", are you currently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Not to mention Luke's DPS was fine, (or else the Death Star wouldn't have gotten blown up) and could be verified by combat logs to avoid him being kicked from the group. Like it or not, SWTOR is a game. I mean seriously, do you upgrade your mods? Because all mods do it provide statistical advancement, not aesthetic (except for color crystals). So if you ever once upgraded your mods you are lifting up your "precious" curtain. Oh yah we need GuildConnect to know when Cathony of Blades is incoming etc,yes i raided hardcore in EQ2 (Sorry WoW players raids there in difficulty put yours to shame) and still raid once or so a week and for many like myself we came to this game to get away from that,it is no longer viable anymore imo too,EQ2 has moved to two group raids even (Still 24 peope raids too) because filling 24 people of needed classes and gear takes countless months. Point is adding these elements that some want in this thread creates divides among the playerbase,you know it and i know it. Edited March 27, 2012 by Sathid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmius Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 He keeps trying to convince himself that he is part of majority. He figures if he posts it enough, it will become true. What you don't seem to understand is that mmo players have become accustomed to these quality of life changes such as addons, dungeon finders, damage meters, etc. I know there are some out there that don't like them because it reminds them of the olden days of mmorpgs where nothing was handed to them, but the majority of players that have played the other games and have experienced the latest QOL changes have gotten used to them and when a game doesn't have them, they feel the game just isn't up to date. In other words, the society of mmorpg players has changed over the last decade. When it comes to the people arguing against such things on this forum, when you add them all up you get about 100 people. Hell, this thread is mostly between 10 people going back and forth between each other. Perhaps the forums aren't dominated by people wanting all these things, but when people cancel their accounts, they give feedback and they talk about some of these things. Hence the most likely reason they are adding dungeon finders to this game when they were originally against them. However I'll bet that in the beginning they will be single server dungeon finders, but as people complain more and more about the queue times because the small pool of players it has, they'll end up going cross server in the end. Other games have tried in the beginning to not have these tools, but in the end they put them in the game. Why? Because like I said, people like those tools and have become used to having them and without them, the game doesn't feel like a modern day mmorpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 My guild has too. It's been annoying. So you "have", are you currently? Yes i have and i do it with Pugs,now granted not all of the content so it would be naive for me to claim otherwise,but in the last few days two guilds posted live raids they did in this very forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) What you don't seem to understand is that mmo players have become accustomed to these quality of life changes such as addons, dungeon finders, damage meters, etc. I know there are some out there that don't like them because it reminds them of the olden days of mmorpgs where nothing was handed to them, but the majority of players that have played the other games and have experienced the latest QOL changes have gotten used to them and when a game doesn't have them, they feel the game just isn't up to date. In other words, the society of mmorpg players has changed over the last decade. When it comes to the people arguing against such things on this forum, when you add them all up you get about 100 people. Hell, this thread is mostly between 10 people going back and forth between each other. Perhaps the forums aren't dominated by people wanting all these things, but when people cancel their accounts, they give feedback and they talk about some of these things. Hence the most likely reason they are adding dungeon finders to this game when they were originally against them. However I'll bet that in the beginning they will be single server dungeon finders, but as people complain more and more about the queue times because the small pool of players it has, they'll end up going cross server in the end. Other games have tried in the beginning to not have these tools, but in the end they put them in the game. Why? Because like I said, people like those tools and have become used to having them and without them, the game doesn't feel like a modern day mmorpg. Yah well like myself and others have pointed out will happen too if these elements are brought in,raids will be adjusted to these new toys too and guess what some guilds will have them and some will not. Edited March 27, 2012 by Sathid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 What you don't seem to understand is that mmo players have become accustomed to these quality of life changes such as addons, dungeon finders, damage meters, etc. I know there are some out there that don't like them because it reminds them of the olden days of mmorpgs where nothing was handed to them, but the majority of players that have played the other games and have experienced the latest QOL changes have gotten used to them and when a game doesn't have them, they feel the game just isn't up to date. In other words, the society of mmorpg players has changed over the last decade. When it comes to the people arguing against such things on this forum, when you add them all up you get about 100 people. Hell, this thread is mostly between 10 people going back and forth between each other. Perhaps the forums aren't dominated by people wanting all these things, but when people cancel their accounts, they give feedback and they talk about some of these things. Hence the most likely reason they are adding dungeon finders to this game when they were originally against them. However I'll bet that in the beginning they will be single server dungeon finders, but as people complain more and more about the queue times because the small pool of players it has, they'll end up going cross server in the end. Other games have tried in the beginning to not have these tools, but in the end they put them in the game. Why? Because like I said, people like those tools and have become used to having them and without them, the game doesn't feel like a modern day mmorpg. Dungeon finder is totally different from live combat logs. I posted this before but here it is again. If Bioware made it so every player had to answer this question the next time they logged in: How would like combat logs implemented in this game? 1) Live Logs 2) Downloadable logs 3) I don't know what a combat log is 4) I don't care I would bet just about anything 3 and 4 would have more responses than 1 and 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopas Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Yes i have and i do it with Pugs,now granted not all of the content so it would be naive for me to claim otherwise,but in the last few days two guilds posted live raids they did in this very forum. You're doing Nightmare clears with pugs? Nice. Which server? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 You're doing Nightmare clears with pugs? Nice. Which server? Ajunta Pall,it's in my little note thing below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopas Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Ajunta Pall,it's in my little note thing below. I had no idea that pugs were clearing Nightmare content. That's impressive. Nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I had no idea that pugs were clearing Nightmare content. That's impressive. Nice job. Well the last one i felt more a burden because i was the least geared,but yah people do holler in Gen chat looking for xxxx Hm,NM some nights and i know they fill em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 If only our combat log was a video recorder. Obi-Wan looked at how much dmg Anikin did on the younglings. ZOMG look at that those crit numbers!!! Attack on the Death Star: Wedge: Luke you're not doing enough dps. Luke: DPS? Wedge: Yes the numbers don't lie we're going to fail with your DPS. Luke: Bour goal is to... ***? Did I just get kicked from the comm channel? Wedge: Ok guys Luke is no longer part of the group. Let's get a new DPS. Gold3: Erm Wedge. You know we just have to shoot one shot in the hole over there? Wedge: Now we need 2 DPS. Best, post....EVER! Amusing, and true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Well the last one i felt more a burden because i was the least geared,but yah people do holler in Gen chat looking for xxxx Hm,NM some nights and i know they fill em. That to me that is not truly a "pug" if they are just filling a spot. We did the same on our last EV HM run because our healer had a family situation at the last minute. So it was 7 guild, plus 1 pug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piterdevries Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Against combat logs, for the same reasons that everyone else who is against them has already put forth. I wouldn't even post about it, except that they're saying "PLEASE VOTE" at the top of the thread, and this is the only way to do that. I don't mind theorycrafting, but it should be hard to do, take days, and have some ambiguity. The easier you make this data to acquire, the easier, shorter, and less ambiguous the whole process will become. Some people like that; others do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopas Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 That to me that is not truly a "pug" if they are just filling a spot. We did the same on our last EV HM run because our healer had a family situation at the last minute. So it was 7 guild, plus 1 pug. Oh, yeah, that's not a pug. So basically a group has been running Nightmare X for a while and had an open spot so they looked for a decently geared individual to come and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 That to me that is not truly a "pug" if they are just filling a spot. We did the same on our last EV HM run because our healer had a family situation at the last minute. So it was 7 guild, plus 1 pug. Every Operation and Flsahpoint i have done aside from one was with people of different guilds,not one was from the same except once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raazmir Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 This poll is pretty clearly not falling the way the OP hoped it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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