The Myth of the SW:ToR Story; No it can't support an MMO.

[TwwIX]

This is a depressing thread.. Mainly because it is pretty accurate.

 

 

Can I say that? I'm worried about speaking my mind now due to what seems to happen in the first pic of my sig.

 

I just received one myself for a similar thing. That's EA for you. Sloppy damage control is their specialty.

[ConradLionhart]

I just received one myself for a similar thing. That's EA for you. Sloppy damage control is their specialty.

 

They moderate you not because you are criticizing the game.

 

They moderate you because you just HAVE to question their forum moderation while you do that. Remove the forum moderation part, and they will not give you infractions.

 

Proof? If you dig through my posts, you will find that I DO point out flaws in the game. But I haven't been given an infraction.

 

And now instead of humbly complying with the rules of the forums, accepting that he is wrong, that person you quoted just HAD to link it in his sig because he can't get over it, thinking that this "rebelling against the authority" convinces him that he's right. And you just HAVE to reply to him saying you have been "unfairly" given an infraction.

 

If you cannot criticize without resorting to name calling and slandering people, don't bother.

Edited March 27, 2012 by ConradLionhart

[TwwIX]

They moderate you not because you are criticizing the game.

 

They moderate you because you just HAVE to question their forum moderation while you do that. Remove the forum moderation part, and they will not give you infractions.

 

Proof? If you dig through my posts, you will find that I DO point out flaws in the game. But I haven't been given an infraction.

 

And now instead of humbly complying with the rules of the forums, accepting that he is wrong, that person you quoted just HAD to link it in his sig because he can't get over it, thinking that this "rebelling against the authority" convinces him that he's right. And you just HAVE to reply to him saying you have been "unfairly" given an infraction.

 

If you cannot criticize without resorting to name calling and slandering people, don't bother.

 

 

It had nothing to do with the moderators. I called out somebody for making up excuses

for this developer and their poor handling of the current state of the game. Apparently, bringing up facts is against EA's policies too.

[RinqualFireburst]

It had nothing to do with the moderators. I called out somebody for making up excuses

for this developer and their poor handling of the current state of the game. Apparently, bringing up facts is against EA's policies too.

 

It's not OK to rage against the machine because big brother is watching.

No worries though, GW2 is only mere months away

[Suzina]

I disagree. Plenty of endgame. Loving it. Only 4/5 Hard Mode on EV so far, we've got plenty left to do in my guild!

[Amp_]

Story will never carry this game for two simple reasons.

 

The first reason being that it's a story on rails. It's story by numbers. It's definitely enjoyable to see how everything plays out, but it's not your's or mine. We're merely observing it. There's nothing about it that makes us, the players, a part of it. We just go through the motions and watch it unfold.

 

The second reason is that all stories must end. They are a finite piece of content. Once it's done, it's done. Of course the story can be expanded through updates, but we all know that developers can never keep pace with players. There's no replay value there for a large portion of the story in this game.

 

Now I am saying this as someone who has really enjoyed the stories in this game. At least the first time around I did. After that, the cut scenes progressively become more of a nuisance than an enjoyment (unique class stories excluded). It's not a sustainable model to bank upon.

 

It works for the time being because this game is still in the early part of its life. What happens another 3 months down the road? And another 3 months after that? And so on, etc. Story was great to launch with, but BioWare will need more than just that to remain relevant in the MMO world. It's only getting more crowded as time goes on.

 

Please keep in mind this is not a doom and gloom post. SWTOR will be able to do well enough and I'm sure it will be around for a long time. However, that doesn't mean it's immune from falling into the category of those games that are OK, but had so much potential at one point. Time will tell how it all plays out.

 

TL;DR

Edited March 27, 2012 by Amp_

[Sporin]

This made me think of the extra credits story telling vid. It really helps in understanding how story telling in games works. Here´s the link:

 

If there was ever a need for a "Like" button, this wins it! Nice one!

Oh how I laughed at "Some of you don't seem to understand roleplaying video games. There is always a story to follow, and you guide your character through it." ...Yeah, cus' as a RPer I always imagined my characters with posh, awful sounding, English accents and being forced to pick from limited options. Don't get me wrong, I think the storys were very nice indeed, BUT it is a far cry from RPing, RPing is using YOUR imagination & using it freely to make your character into who you want it to be, not told who you are...

Edited March 27, 2012 by Sporin

[Phlem]

Considering it took almost a year for blizzard to come out with any end game content other then Ony, I'd say this is ok. However, this day and age people expect everything to be available for them starting on day one. This is the first brand new MMO I've seen ship with this much end game content. Granted its not the hardest content, but it is still there.

 

How many battlegrounds (warzones) did WoW have when it went live? ZERO. Matter of fact people avoided PvP when the game first came out because you took a 10% durability hit each time you died. Don't even get me going on the fact that it took over 6 months for the first patch.

[Dawginole]

I find the problem in this game to be one of population. They put up waaaay to many servers. If one logs onto a decent server's Rep Fleet and there are 40 people online and roughly 20 are involved in different WZ's your left with 20 people to try to group for anything. And there's never enough interest. I've been trying to finish the Battle of Ilum HM that pops at the end of the Ilum planet story line for 3 weeks because there just aren't enough people that need it due to the low population on my server.

 

IMHO i believe server numbers will spike after 1.2. If they don't hold for 30 days+ then we need to start seeing server mergers.

[Orizuru]

Considering it took almost a year for blizzard to come out with any end game content other then Ony, I'd say this is ok. However, this day and age people expect everything to be available for them starting on day one. This is the first brand new MMO I've seen ship with this much end game content. Granted its not the hardest content, but it is still there.

 

How many battlegrounds (warzones) did WoW have when it went live? ZERO. Matter of fact people avoided PvP when the game first came out because you took a 10% durability hit each time you died. Don't even get me going on the fact that it took over 6 months for the first patch.

 

While I understand what you are trying to say here, there was another thread around these forums that changed my mind on this topic. (I used to believe the exact same thing you stated here.)

 

And here is why...

 

TOR isn't competing against the WoW that was out when WoW launched. TOR is directly competing with WoW as it is today, in all it's glory.

 

 

Think of it this way. If a new company starts making a car and their very first model rolls off the assembly line in 2012 you wouldn't compare it to a Model T, you would compare it to the 2012 Ford Mustang.

[TUXs]

I haven't read through all these posts, but I found an article (Narrative is not a game mechanic) that reminded me of this topic and reinforces the idea that "story" doesn't make a good game, and the author goes on to illustrate why.

 

Narrative is not a game mechanic

[Krazed]

Actually they took the RPG out, you dont roleplay and create your character, you are told a story, Bioware claims that it is my story but it is not, its Biowares story.

 

My guild RPs and so do others. Non-RPers aren't going to RP no matter what you do.

[EternalFinality]

The best example of the unsustainability of story is Kaon Under Seige.

 

Bioware claimed they were working on it for a year...and THAT was the result? An hour/hour-and-a-half instance with a few cutscenes?

[Duhakalock]

Actually they took the RPG out, you dont roleplay and create your character, you are told a story, Bioware claims that it is my story but it is not, its Biowares story.

 

You do realize that there is no way that it will ever be YOUR story, there will always be a path. THAT IS HOW GAMES WORK, OR DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT

[Andryah]

TOR isn't competing against the WoW that was out when WoW launched. TOR is directly competing with WoW as it is today, in all it's glory.

 

TOR is not competing with WoW at all. They are very different games with very different audiences. There is some demographic overlap in the audiences, but not as much as many folks here would like you to believe.

 

And yeah TOR garnered a good number of WoW fans aching for ANY new MMO at launch, but most of them will leave and go back to playing WoW or head off to ache for the next non WoW MMO. They will be quickly replaced by the new players joining the game for what it offers, not how it compared to WoW.

 

WoW is pretty much an end-game only MMO property at this point. As evidence by the free 80s they are handing out to the unsubscribed. It will get a brief flourish of life when MoP releases, but like with Cata, it will quickly stale to the veteran player base. It's an old tree, with many limbs that are never climbed on any more. It's only glory (and strongest asset) in the market place is it's familiarity and time invested by players over the years.

 

SWTOR is a new MMO property, much more casual friendly and leveling experienced friendly, with a desired IP foundation, and plenty of headroom to grow and expand over time. It's a young tree, with lots of growth ahead. How large it grows, nobody knows at this point in time. It does not appeal well to the hardcore raider mindset from WoW, nor the hardcore PvP mindset from a variety of other games. And that is fine. It does not need to be all tings to all people, no matter how much people complain that it's not for them and demand it change to be more WoW like.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Andryah

[Damon_Mott]

You do realize that there is no way that it will ever be YOUR story, there will always be a path. THAT IS HOW GAMES WORK, OR DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT

 

Actually buddy, there was a time when it was our story and choices did matter. BW took out all that when the instant gratification kiddies cried foul and woould not have any of it.

[BucMan]

It does not appeal well to the hardcore raider mindset from WoW, nor the hardcore PvP mindset from a variety of other games. And that is fine. It does not need to be all tings to all people, no matter how much people complain that it's not for them and demand it change to be more WoW like.

 

Provided Bioware sticks with their guns and continues to make this game the way they want it made with their Vision I think we will be OK. I look at what Trion has done with Rift, and for the most part they have stuck with their vision. They wanted it to be fun for the players, they wanted you to be able to switch roles on the fly, they wanted you to be able to spec all kinds of different things and be able to do the content you are ready for. For the most part they have stuck with that. My only quarrel with Rift is the players playing "WoW" in it.(think about it for a minute)

 

I look at what Bioware has said about TOR and for the most part, they are staying true. They are compromising on features where they feel it will not hurt their long term goals for the game. I look forward to a time when this game can settle down to about 1-1.5 million subscribers and not have to worry about all the MMO hoppers.

[BucMan]

Actually buddy, there was a time when it was our story and choices did matter. BW took out all that when the instant gratification kiddies cried foul and woould not have any of it.

 

Do you refer to this game or to other Bioware games. If that's a shot at ME3 hopefully they learned that the stove is really hot and to not touch it again.

[DarkCarnage]

for the options in your story, there can only be so many options at this time, due to in time they be adding to waht here and adding more branches. if they have only 2-4 possibles endings for a calss sorty(keeping it simple) when they add the might add to the end of those 4 options 4-6 more things to happen down the line, and then add 2 options to each fo those...etc. it grows on it own and could get out of control fi they did not keep some things semi striaght lined. yes tehre will be some gernal speaking "end" empory dethroned or republic torned to shreads, but how we get there and how we do it be "our" stroy, who to team with, who to kill, who to betray, who to love, etc.

[Oddzball]

I think you will find that once you have leveled a republic character and a Sith character to 50, it becomes a horrible grind.

 

i cant even imagine doing it 15 times....

[Dawginole]

Why is "o" small in your spelling of "SW:TOR"? You know the "O" is "Old" which is not lower case. You just do that in titles using words like "the" or "of".

 

That's all I have to say. Couldn't take your post seriously with that error.

 

Thanks!

[Revenaught]

I think you will find that once you have leveled a republic character and a Sith character to 50, it becomes a horrible grind.

 

i cant even imagine doing it 15 times....

 

Actually I find your assumption wrong. I have 50s on each side and still leveling others with no problem.

[JediElf]

The story can carry this game, and it will.

 

SW:TOR just needs to find the people (who are out there) that will appreciate, and pay attention, to this games unique cinematic focus.

 

Their is an untapped goldmine of new gamers whoa re sick of the FPS roid fests, and MMOs full of 'hardcore raiders', and rampant loot obsessions. People with artistic drive, an a creative mind (and you can tell from the art, RP, and story thread that so many are already here)...people who love a good story.

 

I just hope that more of them find their way here.

 

SW:TOR will thrive if people try and respect it for what it is....not what it isn't.

 

So much doom and gloom on the General board.

Edited May 1, 2012 by JediElf

[Dawginole]

I think you will find that once you have leveled a republic character and a Sith character to 50, it becomes a horrible grind.

 

i cant even imagine doing it 15 times....

 

lulwut? A grind? If you rotate 3 classes only playing one a night and leave your characters in rest areas it takes 3 days per class to hit 50. You can have 3 classes to 50 in two weeks even just taking it easy with this method. Man that is just an awful grind!!!

[Ensquire]

Story alone can't... But fully voiced Bioware game with the name star wars somewhere in it can