Why remove expertise?

[Orangerascal]

What?

 

That's just... wrong. everything you said in those two paragraphs is just wrong.

 

#1 Expertise exists because resilience exists. plain and simple. Its the same reason Rift has Valor because the developers are copying a mechanic (even if it is bad) from a popular MMO that most of their player base has played.

 

Except if you look at

 

valor (decress pvp damage)

resilience (decrease pvp burst)

expertise (decrease inc. damage, increase dealt damage, reduce trauma)

 

They are all different. But I understand what you're saying, apples can sometimes look like oranges ... I called it a 'gating mechanic'

 

#2 Resilience was created not for a gear grind to keep subs. At the time resilience was introduced(TBC), WoW was already out for over 2.5 years and still growing in subscription numbers. The reason a PvP stat was introduced was to taper the effect of top PvE geared players dominating in the newly created ranked arenas. To even the playing field.

 

No arena gear changes every season precisely to keep you subbed. The tapering effect was that you were required to grind it in pvp to stay competitive. If said gear did not exist you would be grinding raids for the gear.

 

It's the same reason that every season there is a new arena set with even more stats than the last set. It's the carrot that keeps on growing.

 

#3 Hundreds of MMOs, have had extreme success creating PvP without the use of gear grind. Not to mention PvE gives the "Need" for gear grind even though it is not required for an MMO to be successful.

 

Like which ones?

Aion ... nope ... the abyss point grind is pretty darn attrocious.

Warhammer ... instead of gear you grind renown, same principle.

Rift ... R8 gear .. nuff said

Wow ... season x gear

 

I wonder why all the top publishers do almost the same thing?

 

#4 The main draw for PvP is PvP. Even outside MMOs, there are thousands of games that incorporate or are primarily based around PvP that have absolutely no stat or gear improvement grind. The only "grind" is in status, Ladder rankings, and Cosmetics.

 

I agree gear disparity sucks. Gear disparity != Expertise. People that say expertise is the reason for gear disparity ... are just plain ignorant. The gear designed to do just that, whether it's a stat called expertise or +5000 willpower + 10000 armour for pvp.

 

#5 If players are PvPing for gear upgrades to get gear upgrades so that they can grind more gear upgrades to the point where they feel there is no reason to PvP if there are not more gear upgrades to grind to... Then something is wrong with the system. Bioware realized this and is trying to fix it by making the gear grind short and still a sense of achievement but after that, the only reason to step into PvP will be to defeat other players who will constantly give you a dynamic challenge that you cannot ever experience in PvE.

 

Which is completely what PvP should be.

 

I'm all for lowering gear disparity. You don't do this by removing expertise, you do it like how bioware is doing it ... making 'welfare epics' easily accessible, which I agree with.

 

Back to the OP.

 

Expertise is a broken mechanic. and there are already problems with the way its handled. Defensive characters benefit more from it than offensive characters, and those that can heal even more so. Its already getting to a point where Bioware is nerfing the healers to compensate What happens when expertise is at 20 or 30 percent? Will trauma have to go up to 50%? This is ridiculous, All because the system is bad.

 

There are better ways to deal with the PvE gear threat than a PvP stat. in fact BW was very close to achieving this. They just seemed to stumble at the finish line.

 

There are many many many ways to create gating mehanics in the game. Bioware chose this particular way. It's not going to change because they're heavily invested into this.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Joetwoshots]

This is why i strongly believe in re-introducing and re-designing bolster system to lvl 50s without expertise stat. If everyones stats would be brought so similar lvl, being slightly boosted by gear quality(and i mean SLIGHTLY), there wouldnt be much need for expertise. If expertise from pvp gear would be converted to some other stat, it would allow pve and pvp gear being valiable in whole game content.

Right now attempts to balance pvp are hitting pve balance and vice versa.

My question is: why cant we ALL enjoy both pvp AND pve?

If you want to response to this, please give me some reasonable answer, not *** or "you cant be serious". If theres any flaw in my logic, please point it.

[Emencie]

Snip

 

 

I was comparing PvP only stats to PvP only stats. Weather their mechanics are changed has no berring that they stim from the same source idea. Like a car a truck, and a motorcycle even though they are each vastly different they are all based around a similar central idea.

 

That said you are focusing on a very few (and not even the most successful) MMOs Really? how could you possibly leave out Lineage, Aion and Guildwars from your argument of...

 

I wonder why all the top publishers do almost the same thing?

 

Especially considering that none of those game have a PvP stat and each of those games have/had more sales than Warhammer, Rift and SWTOR combined (As of yet of course) and are from the same top publisher. When did Trion and EA become top MMO publishers? Heck SOE has numbers from their past MMOs that have not been surpassed by EA/Trion.

 

Not to mention that PvP is a huge component of all of those games.

 

Opps... Back on topic.

 

Gear disparity sucks. And for this game Expertise does = gear disparity because that is what is making the disparity. I guarantee you that if instead of expertise BM gave +50000 Armor, +20000 Primary stat and +30000 Endurance everyone would still be in here angry that the game was Gear v Gear instead of PvP we just wouldn't be upset at expertise because it wouldn't exist.

 

You are correct though at what the Resilience (any pvp stat) Turned into after WoW borked it. A carrot on a stick. The problem with the carrot on the stick is that it is a PvE thing NOT a PvP one. People PvPed before carrot on a stick mechanics and even before rankings! Because the point of PvP is to play against others. And without Carrot on a stick mechanics PvPers will keep PvPing. The Carrot on the Stick just makes PvP not fun because you are no longer PvPing to gain skill. Or pride, or any sort of personal fulfillment like in all competitive events. but instead you are PvPing to get better gear so that you can PvP to get better gear.

 

I'm all for lowering gear disparity. You don't do this by removing expertise, you do it like how bioware is doing it ... making 'welfare epics' easily accessible, which I agree with.

 

There are many many many ways to create gating mehanics in the game. Bioware chose this particular way. It's not going to change because they're heavily invested into this.

 

Why bother? Why bother Nerfing classes because your PvP stat system is bad? Why constantly anger your player base by making them work for gear to only give it away weeks later.

 

Because this is how WoW did it. And that is the only answer that makes any sort of sense even though its a bad answer.

 

Especially when BW had the bolster system. Its not a perfect system and it needs some tweeks and a few changes but it is a lot better than the expertise system which makes me wonder What the heck made them swap from bolster to expertise at 50?

 

With the bolster system, generally after 20 and definitely after 30-40 gear disparity has no bearing. at all. when you step into a WZ you are all equal and skill becomes the deciding factor.

 

If this system was implemented (fully) for a 50's bracket. It would be by far a better choice than more Expertise based nerfs and buffs and changes because the stat is bad.

[Joetwoshots]

Why bother? Why bother Nerfing classes because your PvP stat system is bad? Why constantly anger your player base by making them work for gear to only give it away weeks later.

 

Because this is how WoW did it. And that is the only answer that makes any sort of sense even though its a bad answer.

 

Especially when BW had the bolster system. Its not a perfect system and it needs some tweeks and a few changes but it is a lot better than the expertise system which makes me wonder What the heck made them swap from bolster to expertise at 50?

 

With the bolster system, generally after 20 and definitely after 30-40 gear disparity has no bearing. at all. when you step into a WZ you are all equal and skill becomes the deciding factor.

 

If this system was implemented (fully) for a 50's bracket. It would be by far a better choice than more Expertise based nerfs and buffs and changes because the stat is bad.

Agreed, thats Exacly what im talking about. Bolster system needs some tweaking, but its definitely way better than additional pvp stat inspired by wow/Rift/etc.

[EternalFinality]

Because those people are dumb. If you remove expertise people in endgame raidgear will mop the floor with people who only pvp.

 

Not if PvP gear was the same strength.

 

Which it should be.

[xxdragonragexx]

Finally, the entire premise of the stat itself is self-defeating and stupid. It serves only to drive a gigantic wedge firmly between the camp of players that prefer PvP and the ones that prefer PvE, and ensures that virtually no one can cross between them.

 

I seriously doubt Bioware is going to listen to you especially when you don't even know that this is the whole purpose of expertise. Saying that this purpose is stupid only proves your limited viewpoint.

[Rodingo]

Though I'm not a pve'er, however I find this amusing. I will use the same retort I see people who defend expertise and pvp gear use.

 

If you are good at pvp, then (non-expertise)raid gear shouldn't matter

[xxdragonragexx]

Not if PvP gear was the same strength.

 

Which it should be.

 

If they have the same strength then raiders will get mad and QQ since they get a lock out timer on dungeons preventing them from farming gear. They will then be forced to pvp to get gear which a lot of them don't want to do.

 

Though I'm not a pve'er, however I find this amusing. I will use the same retort I see people who defend expertise and pvp gear use.

 

If you are good at pvp, then (non-expertise)raid gear shouldn't matter

 

You are looking at this as a pvper. Look at it from a raider or pveers point of view. If both gears are the same, and dungeons get a lockout timer then you are forced to pvp to get gear. This will make lots of raiders quit. Expertise is there to make sure raiders don't have to pvp to get gear. It is there so that battlemasters don't just go to the toughest nightmare mode dungeon and be able to skip lots pve content.

 

My question is: why cant we ALL enjoy both pvp AND pve?

If you want to response to this, please give me some reasonable answer, not *** or "you cant be serious". If theres any flaw in my logic, please point it.

 

Both are different style of gameplay in MMO. Lots of people that pvp don't really like raiding. Lots of raiders don't like to pvp.

 

It's like saying "Why can't we all enjoy classical music while enjoying metal?" Some will, some won't. Bioware notice that it is more profitable to create two sets of gear to satisfy the majority of players.

Edited March 22, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Sweeet]

Agreed, thats Exacly what im talking about. Bolster system needs some tweaking, but its definitely way better than additional pvp stat inspired by wow/Rift/etc.

 

It's a good idea in concept, but if they bolstered everyone to the same gear level regardless of the gear you are wearing, there would be nothing driving people to PvP and they would get bored very quickly. Right now people grind out PvP because they have something to work towards, take that away and they'll stop playing.

 

Could you imagine if they did the same for PVE? It would trivialise all the PVE content as when you step into an Ops, you'd be bolstered to the gear level for that Ops. What's the point in doing the Ops if you have nothing to work towards? Again people would stop playing, which defeats the purpose of an MMORPG.

 

If Bioware did what you are proposing people would burn through the content too quickly, and that's something they will never let happen. It takes months to create and voice over new content, there's just no way they could keep up.

 

I'd prefer to grind towards getting PVP gear and actually have people to play with, than everyone be bolstered to the same gear level and not have anyone to play with.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Sweeet

[Emencie]

This is why i strongly believe in re-introducing and re-designing bolster system to lvl 50s without expertise stat. If everyones stats would be brought so similar lvl, being slightly boosted by gear quality(and i mean SLIGHTLY), there wouldnt be much need for expertise. If expertise from pvp gear would be converted to some other stat, it would allow pve and pvp gear being valiable in whole game content.

Right now attempts to balance pvp are hitting pve balance and vice versa.

My question is: why cant we ALL enjoy both pvp AND pve?

If you want to response to this, please give me some reasonable answer, not *** or "you cant be serious". If theres any flaw in my logic, please point it.

 

 

Ive been saying this for months.

 

With a few changes bolster would be great. I think there should be bolster options. maybe 3. Tank bolster, DPS bolster, and healer bolster. Perhaps more. A gear slot that gives you a different bolster based on which of the bolster Item you put in it. Letting you customize your character a bit. Perhaps you want Power surge instead of Surge crit for example.

 

And I think bolster shouldn't take base gear stats into account at all.

 

I would also like to point out that even with the bolster system in place and gear having almost nothing to do with your ability in a PvP match. At under 50 people still go after the orange PvP sets. 100% for looks and a small achievement while they are PvPing for pure fun.

 

If BW were to look at this and learn from it they could implement seasonal gear, Weapons powers, Effect colors and the works. From season to season people would love it and PvP would be completely balanced and still could have a carrot on a stick for those who need it.

 

To quote myself here form a different thread.

 

And that's what PVP gear should be. 100% status. So when you see that Sorc shooting red lightning (season 5 reward), with his lava crystal lightsaber (season 3 reward), in his emperor's hand (season 2) set. with a glowing red aura on his hands (season 4 reward)You know that guys is a complete BAMF. Not because his gear lets him own noobs. But because his skills let him own vets.

[xxdragonragexx]

I would also like to point out that even with the bolster system in place and gear having almost nothing to do with your ability in a PvP match. At under 50 people still go after the orange PvP sets. 100% for looks and a small achievement while they are PvPing for pure fun.

 

I don't think you know how bolster works. There's a reason why level 40s own in warzones because most have full pvp gear while sub 40s have gear that are 5-8 levels below. Some don't even have implants.

 

Lastly, read the post from the guy above you.

[Emencie]

I don't think you know how bolster works. There's a reason why level 40s own in warzones because most have full pvp gear while sub 40s have gear that are 5-8 levels below. Some don't even have implants.

 

Lastly, read the post from the guy above you.

 

C-mon, don't straw man me brother. I said right there in what you quoted that bolster has almost nothing to do with your ability in a PvP match. I also said that Bolster needed some tweaking and changes like base stats having nothing to do with your totals. I addressed that bolster isnt perfect. I just said it was a great idea in the right direction.

 

If Bioware did what you are proposing people would burn through the content too quickly, and that's something they will never let happen. It takes months to create and voice over new content, there's just no way they could keep up.

 

I'd prefer to grind towards getting PVP gear and actually have people to play with, than everyone be bolstered to the same gear level and not have anyone to play with.

 

What makes you think this Sweeet?

 

People have played and do play MMOs (Im including all MMOs in this point not just MMORPGs) that are completely revolved around PvP that have no carrot other than personal glory. for years. Even in SWTOR you see fully geared battlemasters. Especially since 1.1.5 They are not getting anything in those matches but the fun of winning and competing.

 

Besides that, there are more flavors of carrot than get better gear.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Emencie

[Ahebish]

Ah Ha.

No. Just no.

 

Take a 50 geared in Rakata's to any other 50 gear in Battlemaster, or even Champion gear.

 

The PvP geared player destroys the raider. Every time. Some times irregardless of skill.

It's not even like it's close. - Soooo get pvp gear? Or are you like the rest of the wow carebears who doesn't actually want to work for anything and have BW spoonfeed you your victories? Never mind don't answer that question. Because you already did.

 

 

I much prefer to spend the majority of my time on seeing a well-executed raid to PvP, especially when said raid also tells me a good story. Though I do get a thrill from good PvP matches, I generally only like doing them once in a while. I don't care about having a gear advantage. I don't want one. I'd rather have a good match. - So you are a PVE hero trying to compete against PVP'ers. How about this. We won't step on your PVE if you don't step on our PVP? Deal? Unlike you we actually work towards bettering ourselves in PVP just like you work towards your flawless raid runs that tells a story. Quit stepping into my arena and I'll stay out of yours.

 

So why should I waste my time grinding out an entirely different set of gear to get my PvP fix? Why can't I use the same **** for both? There's is no logical reason other than "EA wants your money, and the longer you have to play the better." - Hint: Because BW created World of Warcraft 2.0. And the list of MMO's who have done it this way are long and plentiful. You want lack of PVP stats then go play Star Wars Galaxies... oh wait never mind they canceled the game. Ok then how about Darkfall where gear is cheap anyone can use any gear set... oh wait you run the risk of losing all of your gear and money if you die to someone in PVP... scratch that idea. Ahh here we go Aion... If you start now, by the time SWTOR is in it's 6th aniversery you MIGHT be geared enough to compete with people who started the game at launch... Nah on second thought that's a bad idea too... and they have PVP stats in that game. Let's see oh yes! Star Trek Online there you go, all gear is equal relative to level and quality, easy to get the only differences is in classes... No that won't work either the differences in classes in this game is the reason why operatives keep getting nerf'd. Hmm There's got to be a game out there you won't complain about... Open to suggestions?

 

 

 

Who says the PvPer will get his Weekly done every week? The fact is implementing a system where you get a bag for doing those missions that contains random gear is a self-sustaining system that will produce nearly identical results to raids.

 

People who really want to get the weekly done will go into Warzones in groups, use tactics and strategy, and get it done. People who don't will not. It's sort of how a guild raid with experienced players has a much better chance of killing the boss than a raid full of pick-ups that have never been in there before.

 

Similar results will be found by having raid mobs drop only commendations. Either way gear will progress at the same rate. Just pick a freaking system for both and go with it. It's such an obvious solution it makes my eyes hurt from all the rolling.

 

 

And every point you made can also be made with or without Expertise in the equation. People will gear up when they perform well, your gear will give you an advantage over people who didn't do so well. The biggest difference is that when Expertise is in the equation that advantage is completely insurmountable, and I'll have 10 fewer open slots in my backpack. - So you'll work to do raid content but won't work for PVP content. That makes sense... you basically just want to be spoonfed everything and not have to work for anything. I think we all see what kind of player you are. And it's not a PVP'er. So stop trying to ruin other's gaming experience. We don't tell you how to enjoy your gaming experience stop shoving your's down our throats. We tell you what to do and how to do it to compete in our gaming experience but you refuse to do it. It takes skill to compete in our gaming experience but it takes little to no skill to compete in your's.

 

/5char

[Orangerascal]

Especially considering that none of those game have a PvP stat and each of those games have/had more sales than Warhammer, Rift and SWTOR combined (As of yet of course) and are from the same top publisher. When did Trion and EA become top MMO publishers? Heck SOE has numbers from their past MMOs that have not been surpassed by EA/Trion.

 

Not to mention that PvP is a huge component of all of those games.

 

Did you not read what I said, the gear disparity does not necessarily come from gear. Wow and Aions gear disparity came from renown points and abyss points. You think 400 expertise is bad, try fighting an RR90 as a RR30.

 

 

Opps... Back on topic.

 

Gear disparity sucks. And for this game Expertise does = gear disparity because that is what is making the disparity. I guarantee you that if instead of expertise BM gave +50000 Armor, +20000 Primary stat and +30000 Endurance everyone would still be in here angry that the game was Gear v Gear instead of PvP we just wouldn't be upset at expertise because it wouldn't exist.

 

No you're wrong. If expertise did not exist the gear disparity would come from columni or rakata gear. Like you said:

 

'I guarantee you that if instead of expertise BM gave +50000 Armor, +20000 Primary stat and +30000 Endurance everyone would still be in here angry that the game was Gear v Gear instead of PvP'

 

Congratulations, you've just described pve gear.

 

You are correct though at what the Resilience (any pvp stat) Turned into after WoW borked it. A carrot on a stick. The problem with the carrot on the stick is that it is a PvE thing NOT a PvP one. People PvPed before carrot on a stick mechanics and even before rankings! Because the point of PvP is to play against others. And without Carrot on a stick mechanics PvPers will keep PvPing. The Carrot on the Stick just makes PvP not fun because you are no longer PvPing to gain skill. Or pride, or any sort of personal fulfillment like in all competitive events. but instead you are PvPing to get better gear so that you can PvP to get better gear.

 

Resilience was added because I was one shoting people in my AQ40 gear. Again ... gear disparity.

 

Also MMO's are carrots on sticks. This is my point. It's how they keep you subbed becuase running the same 3 warfronts won't do it, neither will running the same two raids every week. It's their way of increasing shelf life .. as I've stated.

 

 

Why bother? Why bother Nerfing classes because your PvP stat system is bad? Why constantly anger your player base by making them work for gear to only give it away weeks later.

 

Because this is how WoW did it. And that is the only answer that makes any sort of sense even though its a bad answer.

 

Especially when BW had the bolster system. Its not a perfect system and it needs some tweeks and a few changes but it is a lot better than the expertise system which makes me wonder What the heck made them swap from bolster to expertise at 50?

 

With the bolster system, generally after 20 and definitely after 30-40 gear disparity has no bearing. at all. when you step into a WZ you are all equal and skill becomes the deciding factor.

 

If this system was implemented (fully) for a 50's bracket. It would be by far a better choice than more Expertise based nerfs and buffs and changes because the stat is bad.

 

You think the class nerfs are because expertise ... seriously? ALso I don't believe in bolstering as much as I do segregation. I believe character progression is a big part of why people are subbed. Instead of bolstering have people people of the same gear level fight each other. That's what rated systems are basically.

 

I believe if you have a 50/50 chance of winning, then bioware is doing something right.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Joetwoshots]

I'd prefer to grind towards getting PVP gear and actually have people to play with, than everyone be bolstered to the same gear level and not have anyone to play with.

 

You kow that long before wow introduced pvp grind mmos not always had any pvp rewards? Many players enjoyed pvp for pure competition.

And if you would bother reading MY post, you would see that i underlined that gear stats would boost avarage stats from bolster, but not to the point when players without expertise gear are close to cannon fodder.(maybe lil exagarrated, if players gear in lvl 50 purples, they will have some chance against expertise buffed players)

 

And i agreed that pvp gear should give more than just stats. Being able to pursue more interesting goals than that would give players alot incentive aswell, thats what i believe.

[xxdragonragexx]

 

What makes you think this Sweeet?

 

People have played and do play MMOs (Im including all MMOs in this point not just MMORPGs) that are completely revolved around PvP that have no carrot other than personal glory. for years. Even in SWTOR you see fully geared battlemasters. Especially since 1.1.5 They are not getting anything in those matches but the fun of winning and competing.

 

Besides that, there are more flavors of carrot than get better gear.

 

Name one mmo that has 1.7 subscribers that isn't a gear progression MMO. There isn't one. People pay $15 a month for gear progression.

Plenty of FPS, console games, and arcade games that do not have gear progression. Guess what? No one will pay $15 a month to play them online.

[Beefmiller]

Because its one game. You shouldnt need sets of gear for every aspect. What is better is multiple methods to acheive good-enough gear.

 

To the nay-Sayers, doing the same 3 WZs hundreds of time doesn't warrant skill. Raiding is tougher than faming valor, which you get just for being in a WZ, win or lose

[Magnesium]

PvP should always have a separation from PvE and a big one if you are going to add it at all.

 

When you sit and think about it, why should any top raiding guild be able to get the best gear from PvE and have it be the best in PvP? (I'm speaking as a guild who have always been a top raiding guild doing the hardest PvE content in our games). SWTOR did one thing right in having a PvP based stat and not shocking to see another game suddenly move to a "PvP Stat" based system as well.

 

My bigger issue with PvP these days is not entirely class balance but class played balance, because stacking a particular type of class in a WZ can easily make it a cakewalk or vice versa.

[xxdragonragexx]

People are looking at expertise and gear progression the wrong way.

 

The whole issue with EXPERTISE is MONEY and not fun. Will it be more fun to have no expertise? No gear progression? No gear? Only pvp? I don't really know. All I know is that no expertise or gear progression will bring less money to this game.

 

Ask yourself this question which gameplay will bring the most money to this game? It is what the Devs ask themselves before creating a change. It is their top priority. They could have created guild wars with no gear or pvp centric MMO, or etc. Why didn't they? Instead they went with the World Of Warcraft Clone Model for the simple reason that this model will bring the most money and will bring the most profit.

 

Take away expertise? Take away gear or gear progression? For PvP purposes only? Those things will never happen for the simple fact that the Devs main goal isn't to give a great game. It is to create a lot of profit. Creating a fun game is just their second goal.

 

I'm in no way against the removal of expertise or the removal of gear progression. If it creates a better or more fun pvp game, then they should go for it. But I'm not naive or stupid enough to believe that such a change will bring profit or money to this game. It simply won't and it is the sole reason why it will never happen.

[EternalFinality]

If they have the same strength then raiders will get mad and QQ since they get a lock out timer on dungeons preventing them from farming gear. They will then be forced to pvp to get gear which a lot of them don't want to do.

 

Why would they be forced to PvP to get gear that is the same strength as the gear they get from PvE?

 

That is the opposite of being "forced." It's called freedom. They have the freedom to get the gear from either venue.

 

No one would cry.

[Joetwoshots]

Im aware its about moneymaking. But nevertheless ill try. Maybe if enough people will join in this fight, EA/BW will realise that changes are nessesary.

[xxdragonragexx]

Why would they be forced to PvP to get gear that is the same strength as the gear they get from PvE?

 

That is the opposite of being "forced." It's called freedom. They have the freedom to get the gear from either venue.

 

No one would cry.

 

Because dungeons have a lockout timer. Do you know what that means? They can't get gear through pve for xxx days. They will be forced to pvp to get gear just to keep up with their friends, guildies and etc.

 

Lastly, having multiple methods to obtain the same gear will mean that players will get max gear quickly. Which isn't really good for retaining subscribers. Once players get the max gear, they either reroll or quit. The only option to retain more subscribers is to make the gear grinding more time consuming which will have a negative impact on players who only like one particular gameplay - pvp or pve.

[EternalFinality]

Because dungeons have a lockout timer. Do you know what that means? They can't get gear through pve for xxx days. They will be forced to pvp to get gear just to keep up with their friends, guildies and etc.

 

Listen to yourself. "Forced to keep up." Utter nonsense. You're not forced to do anything. If you don't PvP you'll get the same gear you always got. And if you don't PvP, why do you need to "keep up" with anyone? Keep up for what reason? Do you see how your argument is getting dumber and dumber?

 

There is multiple lock outs. Few do more than 1 raid a night. There's a lot of PvP content and bosses to down. If you're doing all PvE content every week you don't really have much time to PvP...unless of course you're some 8 hour a day loser.

Edited March 22, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Solbjorn]

Ah Ha.

No. Just no.

 

Take a 50 geared in Rakata's to any other 50 gear in Battlemaster, or even Champion gear.

 

The PvP geared player destroys the raider. Every time. Some times irregardless of skill.

It's not even like it's close.

 

 

 

thats the point... so you are implying that you want the gear from pve to be superior to the gear in pvp? if i have full BM gear and decide to raid im going to be far less effective than someone in full rakata gear because my bonus damage and defense against players to compensate for the lower stats on the BM gear doesnt apply. the pvp and pve are separate games essentially why are you trying to combine them? the guy in full rakata should not have an advantage over the full BM player, regardless of how the gear is attained. pvp should beat pve in a duel. and i have seen full rakata players beat full BM players so if youre a better player you will still win. if you want to do both pvp and pve then farm both gear sets. my BM gear is inferior to pve gear in raids hence why i collect both.

[xxdragonragexx]

Listen to yourself. "Forced to keep up." Utter nonsense. You're not forced to do anything. If you don't PvP you'll get the same gear you always got. And if you don't PvP, why do you need to "keep up" with anyone? Keep up for what reason? Do you see how your argument is getting dumber and dumber?

 

There is multiple lock outs. Few do more than 1 raid a night. There's a lot of PvP content and bosses to down. If you're doing all PvE content every week you don't really have much time to PvP...unless of course you're some 8 hour a day loser.

 

Utter nonsense to you or not, doesn't matter. The simple fact that a lot of people have the playstyle I covered will not change. The devs will continue to support such playstyle because it is the norm in this game and most MMO and it is what makes the most money.

 

Also I'm not here to educate you. Nor am I here to make the blind see. There are none so blind as those who refuses to see.

Edited March 22, 2012 by xxdragonragexx