Is the majority really AGAINST the pvp gear grind?

[Itukaaj]

Just to clarify. Once 1.2 starts I would be better of replacing all my champion gear that I got punched in the face for because my guild wouldn't do level 50 premades and I had to pug commendations for a month against geared premades so that when rated games started I would be at the baseline gear.

 

I thought they were helping everyone catch up and stat balancing gear so everyone would start at Champion/BM gear and then they would earn the new War Hero gear.

 

Although I enjoy PVP I do not enjoy the pug v premade zzz kickery that I was victim of to be geared to compete. I can basically stop playing and just buy my gear since my champion/BM gear is worthless except to transmogrify it. Is that a correct assessment?

[xWermx]

so you believe that if someone doesn't keep pvp'ing and enjoying it while getting blown up non-stop they must not really like pvp? I fail to see any reason for any kind of gear grind in pvp. I don't pvp for gear and don't understand why some people do.

[Jrovak]

The problem with most of you gear grinders is that you assume the people who are pissed at the low RNG for bags are the same people wanting a level playing field. That's two different groups of people. Quit trying to lump everyone who thinks the pvp gear system in this game is a joke into one group that is qq'ing for the same reason. The people who want a level playing field aren't saying teh grind is hard. They are saying there shouldn't have been a grind in the first place. And yes, your pvp gear IS a crutch. Don't be mad.

 

there are indeed 2 groups petitioning BIOWARE for different things

Group1

RNG on BM Comm proc is stupid I did the PvP let me get the reward at a predictible rate

I say fair enuff

 

Group2

I want equal gear to compete even though I am not prepared to PvP to get Pvp gear because I am at a disadvantage during gearing up process.

I cannot be bothered to rank up my PvP valor to acquire gear, others that have played longer/ have more time do not deserve that CRUCIAL GEAR advantage over me.

[Kotlx]

Just to clarify. Once 1.2 starts I would be better of replacing all my champion gear that I got punched in the face for because my guild wouldn't do level 50 premades and I had to pug commendations for a month against geared premades so that when rated games started I would be at the baseline gear.

 

I thought they were helping everyone catch up and stat balancing gear so everyone would start at Champion/BM gear and then they would earn the new War Hero gear.

 

Although I enjoy PVP I do not enjoy the pug v premade zzz kickery that I was victim of to be geared to compete. I can basically stop playing and just buy my gear since my champion/BM gear is worthless except to transmogrify it. Is that a correct assessment?

 

Are you saying you already have the full set or you'll have to fight even more geared people to gain your BM set? The new patch allows for purchase of BM gear through wzc (ive heard its something like 900 for the weapon though I am not in the PTS so I don't know for sure).

 

In any case I remember reading the separation of premade vs. solo queue but I can't be 100% sure.

[daveydiablo]

Decent PvP is it's own reward.

 

It seems to me that people who enjoy competitive, fair play, and that rely on their skill seem to adopt this attitude. It allows the 12-hour shift worker to go toe to toe with live-in-game fanatic, and the skilled, newly-leveled player to beat a less skilled veteran.

 

I understand why some players want the gear grind. They want their time invested to add a bonus to their skill level. Whilst I fully appreciate this view point, it's completely what's wrong with the entire MMO industry at present. It appears to be impossible to allow a gear enhancement that is subtle enough to allow a lesser skilled player a handicap, without either diminishing the need for skill, or without making fully geared, skilled players too powerful.

 

IMHO it feels like some players feel they need to be considered "the best", but don't mind how they achieve it. When you participate in a cash prize video game tournament, you wouldn't expect to see an ungeared player or team fighting an opponent with BiS? Why is this any different?

 

Cheers

Edited March 22, 2012 by daveydiablo

[DamienHelzcoming]

PvP is not REQUIRED to play... So a grind for some unique gear is fair.

[Amp_]

I think the original problem was the randomness of getting gear, which is a very legitimate complaint. Since then it seems like the barter system gets changed with every major patch. I don't think it's as much of a result of players as it is BioWare not having a clue how they actually want to do it.

[Jrovak]

Meh I leave yu to argue on the merits of equal oportunity in gaming as for me Aion going free to play with 3.0 expansion and rifting is back like at the begining,

Í am gonna roll some alts other there to do some real Owpvp

QQers Demanding gear for free cause they play 2 hours a day shouldnt play an MMO bottom line

[blackdots]

The grind for PvP gear is a major obstacle to rolling alts, especially for players in serious PvP guilds.

[Sibonk]

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[Itukaaj]

Are you saying you already have the full set or you'll have to fight even more geared people to gain your BM set? The new patch allows for purchase of BM gear through wzc (ive heard its something like 900 for the weapon though I am not in the PTS so I don't know for sure).

 

In any case I remember reading the separation of premade vs. solo queue but I can't be 100% sure.

 

I made 60 last night. I bought the implants and ear otherwise I grinder from orange to centurion to full champ since I turned 50. I pushed harder to get my baseline but my server situation is there are about 6 guilds that field premades and everyone else pugs at 50. The premades are all full BM the pugs mixed gear but about 80% don't know how to throw the ball. So for your daily bags what you have to do is lose bad till you get mixed in with a premade. When I say punched in the face I would be top kills on my team with 5 and you would see 40 kills /ea opposite team as they farmed us. So sometimes days to get one daily done. 1.1.5 helped a little but the same ( on the bright side I can kite and run away with the best). But I figured I should be BM geared . Now there isn't a reason if blue gear has better stats and most of my guild won.'t play till 1.2. So, I just wanted to verify blue gear was indeed better so I can do something else. Playing with people who try to walk through 5 reds solo is not fun. Being the last green standing is fun but not when you want good team play. In short I don't want to WZ to watch people run in solo at a wall of red players and are surprised.

 

I am happy that a reset of sorts is happening but I would have done sub 50 PVP if I knew my current gear would be worse than purchasable gear. I want some recognition for my black eye.

[Fiesbert]

I'd prefer having no gear differences at all in PvP. Fighting against another player is whats the fun for me, not fighting against another players gear.

They are doing the right thing with Patch 1.2. Although it will change PvE too, Champion gear will make the loot of HC fps pale.

[tuxiewuxie]

Meh I leave yu to argue on the merits of equal oportunity in gaming as for me Aion going free to play with 3.0 expansion and rifting is back like at the begining,

Í am gonna roll some alts other there to do some real Owpvp

QQers Demanding gear for free cause they play 2 hours a day shouldnt play an MMO bottom line

 

lol thats the thing, if all you do is the "pvp" dailies win 3/3 wz and ilum daily, 2 hours a day is more than enough.

 

and also to be honest, the pvp in swtor is much slower and easier to learn in comparison to pvp mmo like aion, where even geared classes have the half the hp yet do twice the damage compared to swtor classes, its really more twitch based than swtor but aion is going f2p now and f2p is meh. lol

[Victheslic]

Did all the whining about unequal gear in PvP really get through to Bioware? Does the majority really want EVERYONE to quickly have equal gear, and have nothing to work for? You had to "grind" to get your abilities thru lvl 1-50, why shouldn't you have to grind for your gear?

 

I have had as much fun building up my PVP gear as a 50 then I did going from 1-50. (Both have taken about the same time) Does anyone else feel this way?

 

THIS ISNT CALL OF DUTY, THIS IS AN MMO!

 

 

I think you keep missing an important point. People PvP because they enjoy playing against other players since it is more challenging and competitive than PvE. Where is the challenge if you have more hp, deal more damage, and have more damage reduction than the other player(s)? Sure they will get equal gear eventually through the grind process, but while the gear difference is still there, people who enjoy playing against each other to see who has better strategy, teamwork and skill are being robbed of a good time until they do have the same gear level.

 

You or someone else mentioned in the thread that the grind isn't a big deal if the player enjoys pvp, it is what they would be doing anyway. Well news flash: people don't like playing pvp with a gear handicap, and if they do they can wear whatever gear they want even after they get full BM.

 

PS: You realize that Call of Duty is PvP and has a gear grind right? You are forced to use sub-par weapons/mods/attachments until you have played enough games to unlock the better ones and rank up. By creating a more equal gearing for pvp you are actually making it less like CoD!

[Knockerz]

yea the longer it takes to get things accomplished the more hours logged in therefore more money for bioware!

 

You understatement what most normal casual players will do. If BW had left pvp gear grind as is most casuals would not bother with pvp. I'm not going to log in every other day for months just to attain gear parity with the no lifers who play all day. What you purposing is a double edge sword. It will retain subs, but will lose subs. Personally, one of the reason I quit wow was due to the pvp grind. If you have many alts in wow, you are looking at awful lot of time wasted just grinding honor/arena points in order to have gear parity in pvp. It's just not worth it and most players just quit cause you want to play pvp.

 

Pvp doesn't start until you have gear to compete. If that grind it too long, people will not even start the grind and quit. Base on what was being said in these forums that was the trend that pvp was heading in this game. I know at 50 under the current system, I wouldn't participate in pvp cause I'm not going to grind through warzones/rate warzones only to get slaughter by players in bm for months. If it were a week or two, that would be ok, but not months.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Knockerz

[AncientForce]

You understatement what most normal casual players will do. If BW had left pvp gear grind as is most casuals would not bother with pvp. I'm not going to log in every other day for months just to attain gear parity with the no lifers who play all day. What you purposing is a double edge sword. It will retain subs, but will lose subs. Personally, one of the reason I quit wow was due to the pvp grind. If you have many alts in wow, you are looking at awful lot of time wasted just grinding honor/arena points in order to have gear parity in pvp. It's just not worth it and most players just quit cause you want to play pvp.

 

Pvp doesn't start until you have gear to compete. If that grind it too long, people will not even start the grind and quit. Base on what was being said in these forums that was the trend that pvp was heading in this game. I know at 50 under the current system, I wouldn't participate in pvp cause I'm not going to grind through warzones/rate warzones only to get slaughter by players in bm for months. If it were a week or two, that would be ok, but not months.

 

Even under the current system, it does not take months. This is an exaggeration. It takes a week, maybe two if you don't play that much to get enough gear to be competitive. What people are running into are players who have gear and are also really good players because pvp is all they have been doing. Let's not just blame the gear here.

 

1.2 will also have a gear grind. Sure you will be able to buy a recruit set. However, there will be a pretty big gap between that and BM/WH gear. Skilled player in recruit gear will still get rolled by a skilled player in BM/WH gear. I imagine the BM gear grind will be just as long or maybe longer than the current gear grind. Then there is another grind on top of that if you follow their sequence for WH gear. I imagine this grind will take at least as long as the BM grind if not more. So you see, 1.2 changes almost nothing in terms of gear gap. It's kind of an illusion. It'll benefit the people who didn't plan during 1-49 the trouble of farming the current cent/champ gear by making starter gear more accessible but make no mistake, it will not be the same, not even close, to BM/WH gear.

 

WOW did have a similar set. It was craftable blue gear that had resillience on it. You could easily buy it or make it yourself. People who went into BG's with this gear thinking they could be competitive got steam rolled by the "no lifers" who had the best gear. It is and will be no different here.

Edited March 22, 2012 by AncientForce

[PloGreen]

This is stupid. You get geared doing what you like to do. You don't pvp and then not get geared. If you really liked it so much, you would have the gear unless you purposely didn't buy it. That's why this argument makes no sense to me.

 

All the qq'ers who said the grind is too hard are the ones who gave up after getting blown up for a few games. To me that says you don't like pvp. It tells me you only like easy mode win every time pvp. If you can't get that, you run to forums and QQ about how only skilled players and true pvp'ers don't need a gear grind and that people who put the time in are not skilled and require a gear crutch. Jawa please.

 

Pretty much bang on IMO.

[Mystry]

I don't have a problem with pvp grind. I just wish 55-60 was a little faster, its like it suddenly takes twice as long as normal to get a single valor rank.

[Mayams]

You make 0 sense. You think the grind is hard or takes skill or mean you have to PvP? I laughed when I read that. I did a lot of AFKing on Ilum to get geared. Seriously, the grind isn't hard and takes NO skill whatsoever. Outgearing someone takes NO skill whatsoever. Beating someone who has the same gear as you takes skill. I enjoy PvP INFINITELY more now that I have my gear. Why? Nothing to grind for. I don't HAVE to play 10 WZs a day to get my Ilum daily. I can PvP when I want.

 

For the last time, getting geared doesn't take any skill. Stop saying it does. There are plenty of awful players with full BM.

 

That's enough, this guy wins. He has squarely and firmly applied the business end of the force applicator to the receptive end of the fastening device.

 

The PvP gear "grind" is about who has more time to devote at a greater rate. 18 hours a day = gear fast, 2 hours a day = gear slow. If you could train a monkey to sit there and appear active in game for 18 hours you'd have one well geared monkey's avatar. Conversely, you could set IBM's 'Big Blue' AI up and let it run WZ's for 2 hours a day and you'd have 'Big Blue' stomping around in a smattering of oranges to purples to greens while said monkey struts his full BM set. Set the monkey up with the right class and spec and tape it's finger to the right hotkey and you've got a winner!

 

The PvP gear "arms race" gives advantage to those with more time to devote on a regular basis than the weekend warriors, skill enters into this dynamic at no point.

 

Personally, yes 1 - 49 was indeed a blast for me as indeed it was for many of my guildies with regular jobs, family obligations, etc. Yes, we do eventually get to 50 and plug away to reach BM as our play time allows. Speaking for myself though at least, that gear "grind" is spent charging in, interupting a cap or healer until I am curb stomped, rezzed and spit back out onto the field until I have reached a level of gear that is competitive. The competition is the thing I enjoy, the "grind" to relatively equal footing is just a boring neccesity to get to it.

 

To put it in simile for you, I go to eat at a restaurant because I enjoy eating the food, not preparing it, I pay extra to have it prepared for me to enjoy. Sadly, the common practice of the modern MMO is to require me to pay to "prepare my own food that I wish to enjoy". The first good restaurant (MMO) that pops up who prepares the food I enjoy for me is gonna steal my business at that of like minded PvP'ers I'd wager.

 

To each his own though. To any PvP'er who enjoys grinding out their gear, find the grindiest game you can and have a blast. I won't try to talk you out of what you enjoy. Likewise you don't need to attempt to sway my opinion to enjoying the grind either though.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Mayams

[Jrovak]

the gimme Moar MTV Brigade has somoene called the "ëqual gear crowd"

its pretty appropriate

no interst in loging in they have ruined it for me

[AncientForce]

That's enough, this guy wins. He has squarely and firmly applied the business end of the force applicator to the receptive end of the fastening device.

 

The PvP gear "grind" is about who has more time to devote at a greater rate. 18 hours a day = gear fast, 2 hours a day = gear slow. If you could train a monkey to sit there and appear active in game for 18 hours you'd have one well geared monkey's avatar. Conversely, you could set IBM's 'Big Blue' AI up and let it run WZ's for 2 hours a day and you'd have 'Big Blue' stomping around in a smattering of oranges to purples to greens while said monkey struts his full BM set. Set the monkey up with the right class and spec and tape it's finger to the right hotkey and you've got a winner!

 

The PvP gear "arms race" gives advantage to those with more time to devote on a regular basis than the weekend warriors, skill enters into this dynamic at no point.

 

Sorry dude, but there will still be a gear grind in 1.2. These people will still be complaining then as well because the recruit set will not be enough. The gear gap will still exist. Your big blue will still get roflstomped by mr. monkey rolling his head on his keyboard.

[Dakan]

Sorry dude, but there will still be a gear grind in 1.2. These people will still be complaining then as well because the recruit set will not be enough. The gear gap will still exist. Your big blue will still get roflstomped by mr. monkey rolling his head on his keyboard.

 

Eh, not really. Everything is so easy to get now, and will only get easier.

 

Only really lazy players will still be wearing their blue recruit set after a few weeks.

 

That's nothing.

 

They should go play a Korean MMO if they want to experience a real grind.

[Mayams]

Sorry dude, but there will still be a gear grind in 1.2. These people will still be complaining then as well because the recruit set will not be enough. The gear gap will still exist. Your big blue will still get roflstomped by mr. monkey rolling his head on his keyboard.

 

It is what it is. I'll soldier on as I have prior, I just won't feel like I'm actually competing until I reach top shelf gear. Likewise, curb stomping some poor guy in his fresh questing duds will bring me no sense of accomplishment either though.

 

You know I just realized my server actually maintains a running thread called the "Wall of Shame". Does it highlight and call out those who are terrible at PvP? Nope, it exists explicitly to shine the light of shame on the "under geared".

 

Innocent question here; how would those on both sides of this fence feel about WZ's seprated not only by level 50 or not, but also by Valor rank? That way all involved are garaunteed to face people on a relative par gear wise. No one would be a free kill or hinderance to their team because of gear, skill or lack their of would be the determinant factor.

[AncientForce]

Eh, not really. Everything is so easy to get now, and will only get easier.

 

Only really lazy players will still be wearing their blue recruit set after a few weeks.

 

That's nothing.

 

They should go play a Korean MMO if they want to experience a real grind.

 

Really lazy players = the true pvp'ers that only compete in pure skill pvp and want all gear handed to them with no effort.

 

Seriously though, I know what you mean. Played EQ for a long time, Lineage 2, Wow, Aion...getting gear in this game is EZ.

[Kanana]

Did all the whining about unequal gear in PvP really get through to Bioware? Does the majority really want EVERYONE to quickly have equal gear, and have nothing to work for? You had to "grind" to get your abilities thru lvl 1-50, why shouldn't you have to grind for your gear?

 

I have had as much fun building up my PVP gear as a 50 then I did going from 1-50. (Both have taken about the same time) Does anyone else feel this way?

 

THIS ISNT CALL OF DUTY, THIS IS AN MMO!

 

No, it's not fun grinding gear in pvp. There's a reason why the best pvp games don't follow PvE mechanics from MMOGs.